Is The Focal Point = The Law of God ?
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Salaam almarh0m
And this is the Law
151
say 'come, i will recite to you what your lord forbids you; that you shall associate anything with him; that you shall be good to your parents, that you shall not kill your children because of poverty, we provide for you and for them, that you shall not commit foul deeds whether openly or in secret, and that you shall not kill the soul that allah has forbidden except by right. with such allah charges you, in order that you understand. (151)do not touch the wealth of the orphan, except in the fairer manner until he reaches maturity. give just weight and full measure, we never charge a soul with more than it can bear. when you speak, be just, even if it affects your own kinsmen. fulfill the covenant of allah. with such he charges you, in order that you remember. (152)
152this path of mine is straight. follow it and do not follow other paths, for they will scatter you away from his path. with such allah charges you, in order that you be cautious. (153)
153If this is the Qibla, i agree it is, then why does the quran say the people of the book will not follow it?
2145
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla...............and don't they really follow it?
hmm
peace
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Verse 2145 should be read in context with the previous verses and the verse that follows. I think verse 145 speaks of those who will not accept it and specifically mentions those who had the book before, and who are not excused to not accept it It's about the party of the people of the book who reject it.
we have seen you turning your face towards the heaven, we shall surely turn you to a direction that shall satisfy you. so turn your face towards the sacred mosque (built by abraham); wherever you are, turn your faces to it. ' those to whom the book was given know this to be the truth from their lord. allah is not inattentive of what they do. (144)
144but even if you brought those to whom the book had been given every proof, they would not accept your direction, nor would you accept theirs; nor would any of them accept the direction of the other. if after all the knowledge you have been given you yield to their desires, then you will surely be among the harmdoers. (145)
145those to whom we gave the book know it as they know their own sons. but a party of them conceal the truth while they know. (146)
146.
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Hi Samia,
And this is the Law
I think you said the ?law? was the focal point! Is that right?
And that is in the Ayah?s 151,152,153 you described.
2145
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs???.This Ayah is explicitly talking about the people of the book as a whole, and not a fraction, that they do not follow your Qibla, Don?t they then follow the laws in the ayah?s you indicated , the Jews and Christians, if indeed those are the people of the book? THANKS.
!
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Yes, the law is that of the straight path and it should be evrybody's "qibla". If the verse says that the people of the book know it as they know their sons, and only a party of them conceals the Truth, how would it be that ALL of the people of the book will not accept it?
I really do not know. -
Yes, the law is that of the straight path and it should be evrybody's "qibla". If the verse says that the people of the book know it as they know their sons, and only a party of them conceals the Truth, how would it be that ALL of the people of the book will not accept it?
I really do not know.Sorry if i am repeating my quistion - it's just to clarify your view.
We do know the three religions do believe in this focal point, i am sure you are aware.......
2145
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla.....Yet we are being told they will not follow this Qibla....
2146
The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.Even though some of them know this Qibla they conceal it.......
So how could they be the christians and the jews - when they will not follow it first (according to the quran) and some of them concealing it if they knew?
They can't be christians and the jews can they?
peace
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Salam Student,
Salaam Samia- ( 3 / 204)
( )
Salam Student,
And how does that apply to the trees and stars?
Brother Salaam
Regards
So where is the word "Sajada" OR any of its derivatives in the Ayah you mentioned?
Salaam Brother
Ponder it , You will get inshallah.
Regards - ( 3 / 204)
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Salaam Brother
Ponder it , You will get inshallah.
RegardsDon't you think that pondering is one thing and setting a LAW or a RULE is another?
And btw, how do you get it and I ) don't? Why do you believe that I haven't got it while you already have ) !? What are you saying about yourself here, about others (i.e. me), and also about the Quran itself?
p.s. when you write "insha Allah" in your statement above, it still wouldn't make it sound any humble and considerate!
Take care.
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Peace Samia, everyone,
You cannot understand the logic because you are limiting the inviolable institution of obedience/al-masjid al-haraam only to 6151-153.
Al-masjid al-haraam does not mean institution of obedience OF the forbidden (that would be masjid al-haraam, without the AL before masjid). It means the inviolable institution of obedience, meaning that institution of obedience of all the commandments of The God is inviolable (not just the hurumaat). In other words we cannot violate ANY of the commandments of The God.
The Christians set up partners with The God by making Jesus the son of The God. The Jews set up partners by worshipping the wailing wall. They do not follow the laws of inheritance as given in The God's commandments (the qur'aan). They do not follow the punishment of pornography as given in The God's commandments. Their marriage or divorce is not according to The God's commandments. They do not avoid alcohol according to The God's commandments. The Christians eat pig's meat against The God's commandments. ETC. ETC. ETC.
HENCE
2145 And if you come to those who have been given the book with every sign they will not follow your focal point, nor will you follow their focal point, nor will some of them even follow each others focal point. And if you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.
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Peace everyone,
To all those who think that al-masjid al-haraam is a physical building and kaaba is a cuboidal stone structure, I have the following questions
Can you please enlighten me where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people ENTERING into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten me where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who WALKS straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Thank God the pagans did not make a pyramidal structure by the name of DEEN, and a golden highway by the name of SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM, otherwise majority would be worshipping those stone structures nowadays.
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Peace everyone,
To all those who think that al-masjid al-haraam is a physical building and kaaba is a cuboidal stone structure, I have the following questions
Can you please enlighten me where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people ENTERING into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten me where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who WALKS straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Thank God the pagans did not make a pyramidal structure by the name of DEEN, and a golden highway by the name of SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM, otherwise majority would be worshipping those stone structures nowadays.
Dear Brother
It is the not the word "entering" which determines the morphological meanings of the words. So please do not compare pigeons with bananas.
Morphologically the word" Masjid " is nomina loci while word Deen is not.
If you can prove that word Masjid is not nomina loci ,
Regards -
Peace,
And "SIRAAT" is not nomina loci? It is as nomina loci as nomina loci can be ! Readers please note that the above poster carefully avoided the "siraat" issue like the plague.
I disagree that "masjid" is only nomina loci. It is same as saying "house" in English is nomina loci. So House of Representatives will mean a stone structure in which Representatives live
As you said, the context determines whether a word is being used as a concrete physical meaning or a metaphorical meaning. The context of usage of "masjid" in the qur'aan clearly indicates that it can only mean "institution of obedience", just like House of Representatives is not a physical house but a legal institution.
This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum with all the references and the qur'aanic evidences. Please use the search function for the appropriate threads. No further comments from me on this issue.................and please go ahead and have the last word. Its not up to me to guide but only The God guides.
Peace.
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Peace everyone,
To all those who think that al-masjid al-haraam is a physical building and kaaba is a cuboidal stone structure, I have the following questions
Can you please enlighten me where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people ENTERING into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten me where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who WALKS straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Thank God the pagans did not make a pyramidal structure by the name of DEEN, and a golden highway by the name of SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM, otherwise majority would be worshipping those stone structures nowadays.
Salaam Truthseeker1
You cannot say that all christians believe that jesus is son of God or all jews believe that 3uzair is son of God. This is the dielemma. It's a party of them, but the verse does not say a party of them.
As for other "muharamat", again, copts in generaldo not eat pork. The prohibition of porkis not to be compared to any of the prohibitions mentioned in the straight path there's a (if and but). Moreover, it does not affect the society like the crimes forbidden in he straight path. As for inheritence law, nobody apply them as the quraan decided. The commandment is to write a will, and we only see this as an obligation in western countries which are more christian than muslim. Same with marriage and divorce...
In fact, according to your post,no one apply these things, so I wonder why you did not add Muslims to "people of the book" and make the verse even less logical?Al-masjid al-haraam does not mean institution of obedience OF the forbidden (that would be masjid al-haraam, without the AL before masjid). It means the inviolable institution of obedience
let's not go into linguistci analysis. We are not translating but giving an understanding. I did not say it means "the institution of obedience of the forbidden", because this is meaningless how do you obey the forbidden? Why do you insist that "masjid" is a name of place? Linguistically this is not correct. If so, it should be "masjad" not "masjid", just like "ma3had; maktab...It's a "verbal noun starting with a meem masdar meemi", so it should be translated as "obeying the restriction/ obedience of the restriction".
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Peace,
And "SIRAAT" is not nomina loci? It is as nomina loci as nomina loci can be ! Readers please note that the above poster carefully avoided the "siraat" issue like the plague.
I disagree that "masjid" is only nomina loci. It is same as saying "house" in English is nomina loci. So House of Representatives will mean a stone structure in which Representatives live
As you said, the context determines whether a word is being used as a concrete physical meaning or a metaphorical meaning. The context of usage of "masjid" in the qur'aan clearly indicates that it can only mean "institution of obedience", just like House of Representatives is not a physical house but a legal institution.
This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum with all the references and the qur'aanic evidences. Please use the search function for the appropriate threads. No further comments from me on this issue.................and please go ahead and have the last word. Its not up to me to guide but only The God guides.
Peace.
Dear Truth Seeker Salaam
Please do not pull english into Arabic. You know these are two different langauges and have different implications. Priniciples of one language cannot applied to the other.You said
I disagree that "masjid" is only nomina loci. It is same as saying "house" in English is nomina loci. So House of Representatives will mean a stone structure in which Representatives live
Ok brother what is the scale of Nomina Loci in Arabic ??
In Arabic please give any example of that word like "masjid ,manzil ,matli3 ,maghrib "which is being used as abstract noun.
Not from these three only any other which is on thwe scale of "Maf3ilun or maf3alun".
I need just a single example in whole arabic literature /classical arabic dictionaries in which the word Masjid is used in the sense of institutiton.Most welcome
Regards -
Dear Samai Salaam
Please do not pull english into Arabic. You know these are two different langauges and have different implications. Priniciples of one language cannot applied to the other.
In Arabic please give any example of that word like "masjid ,manzil ,matli3 ,maghrib "which is being used as abstract noun.
Not from these three only any other which is on thwe scale of "Maf3ilun or maf3alun".Most welcome
RegardsSalaam student
How can you explain, in English, an Arabic sentence/phrae/word...etc?Is this pulling english into arabic? Do you have a better way?
What do you mean by "abstract" noun? The language does not start with abstract nouns, but with seen and felt things first, and then these words acquire an abstract meaning. For example, "matla3/matli3" means ascending, but when we say "matla3 shababihi/youth" what would we understand? That his youth is a mountain he is ascending, for example, or a planet that's rising? Does the sun in "in matla3i-sh shams" goes up and down? Same thing with "manbat/manbit" which is mainly for plants. We cannot say of someone "nabata" meaning he grew, but we call his bringing up "manbit". Would you take this as an example of an abstract noun or not? Why?
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Dear Samia
Tahnks for reply
Unfortunately ,I could not understand a few sentences collectivley (I am sorry for that)For example, "matla3/matli3" means ascending, but when we say "matla3 shababihi/youth" what would we understand? That his youth is a mountain he is ascending, for example, or a planet that's rising?
Would you please give me their roots and actual words in arabic text . Sorry for incnconvenience.
As far nabata is concerned- ( 1 / 21133)
nursery; arboretum
Respected Samia ,instead of wandering here and there Please give me a single example of Masjid being used in Arabic literature or Classical arabic dictionaries. We have absolutely no difference of opinion.
Regards - ( 1 / 21133)
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Dear Samia
Tahnks for reply
Unfortunately ,I could not understand a few sentences collectivley (I am sorry for that)Would you please give me their roots and actual words in arabic text . Sorry for incnconvenience.From al Muheet (similar entries in maqayssul lugha)
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ascend a mountain
~As far nabata is concerned
- ( 1 / 21133)
nursery; arboretum
Respected Samia ,instead of wandering here and there Please give me a single example of Masjid being used in Arabic literature or Classical arabic dictionaries. We have absolutely no difference of opinion.
Mar7ab student!
OK. How about "marhaban" ; ma3naa meaning; marji3 (reference), which is an abstract return. Or ma3had a place for doing what?
Why don't we also call the prayer mat masjid? and why the masjid is not a "masla"? Is sujuud the only movement, or even the most important, in a traditional salaat? Why not "marka3"?You write "nabata" but give the entry for "manbat". Although not used in the quraan, but the word "nabatan", another masdar, is, and does not mean "plant"
- ( 1 / 21133)
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From al Muheet (similar entries in maqayssul lugha)
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ascend a mountain
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Mar7ab student!OK. How about "marhaban" ; ma3naa meaning; marji3 (reference), which is an abstract return. Or ma3had a place for doing what?
Why don't we also call the prayer mat masjid? and why the masjid is not a "masla"? Is sujuud the only movement, or even the most important, in a traditional salaat? Why not "marka3"?You write "nabata" but give the entry for "manbat". Although not used in the quraan, but the word "nabatan", another masdar, is, and does not mean "plant"
Dear Samia
In your first example of "Matla3a" it is being used not as Nomina Loci but as Masdar meemi which is obvious in the very first root entery.
As far as the word Marhabaa " is concerned .I have never come across this word as Nomina Loci. Please give evidence that it is Nomina Loici.You said
Why don't we also call the prayer mat masjid? and why the masjid is not a "masla"?
Yes sister that mat is also called "Musalla" not "masla". It shows that probably you are not aware of the method of derivation of nomina loci of "mazeed Fee".
There are millions of nominon loci in the Arabic language ,if you will go on pouring one by one right or wrong ,this discussion will never end.
My request is if you have some any evidence that word masjid has been used in classical literature or dictionaries of classical Arabic dictionaries ,I am ready to accept. Otherwise I have no intention to prolong this baseless discussion.
Regards.