Is The Focal Point = The Law of God ?
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Salaam Brother
Ponder it , You will get inshallah.
RegardsDon't you think that pondering is one thing and setting a LAW or a RULE is another?
And btw, how do you get it and I ) don't? Why do you believe that I haven't got it while you already have ) !? What are you saying about yourself here, about others (i.e. me), and also about the Quran itself?
p.s. when you write "insha Allah" in your statement above, it still wouldn't make it sound any humble and considerate!
Take care.
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Peace Samia, everyone,
You cannot understand the logic because you are limiting the inviolable institution of obedience/al-masjid al-haraam only to 6151-153.
Al-masjid al-haraam does not mean institution of obedience OF the forbidden (that would be masjid al-haraam, without the AL before masjid). It means the inviolable institution of obedience, meaning that institution of obedience of all the commandments of The God is inviolable (not just the hurumaat). In other words we cannot violate ANY of the commandments of The God.
The Christians set up partners with The God by making Jesus the son of The God. The Jews set up partners by worshipping the wailing wall. They do not follow the laws of inheritance as given in The God's commandments (the qur'aan). They do not follow the punishment of pornography as given in The God's commandments. Their marriage or divorce is not according to The God's commandments. They do not avoid alcohol according to The God's commandments. The Christians eat pig's meat against The God's commandments. ETC. ETC. ETC.
HENCE
2145 And if you come to those who have been given the book with every sign they will not follow your focal point, nor will you follow their focal point, nor will some of them even follow each others focal point. And if you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.
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Peace everyone,
To all those who think that al-masjid al-haraam is a physical building and kaaba is a cuboidal stone structure, I have the following questions
Can you please enlighten me where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people ENTERING into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten me where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who WALKS straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Thank God the pagans did not make a pyramidal structure by the name of DEEN, and a golden highway by the name of SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM, otherwise majority would be worshipping those stone structures nowadays.
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Peace everyone,
To all those who think that al-masjid al-haraam is a physical building and kaaba is a cuboidal stone structure, I have the following questions
Can you please enlighten me where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people ENTERING into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten me where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who WALKS straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Thank God the pagans did not make a pyramidal structure by the name of DEEN, and a golden highway by the name of SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM, otherwise majority would be worshipping those stone structures nowadays.
Dear Brother
It is the not the word "entering" which determines the morphological meanings of the words. So please do not compare pigeons with bananas.
Morphologically the word" Masjid " is nomina loci while word Deen is not.
If you can prove that word Masjid is not nomina loci ,
Regards -
Peace,
And "SIRAAT" is not nomina loci? It is as nomina loci as nomina loci can be ! Readers please note that the above poster carefully avoided the "siraat" issue like the plague.
I disagree that "masjid" is only nomina loci. It is same as saying "house" in English is nomina loci. So House of Representatives will mean a stone structure in which Representatives live
As you said, the context determines whether a word is being used as a concrete physical meaning or a metaphorical meaning. The context of usage of "masjid" in the qur'aan clearly indicates that it can only mean "institution of obedience", just like House of Representatives is not a physical house but a legal institution.
This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum with all the references and the qur'aanic evidences. Please use the search function for the appropriate threads. No further comments from me on this issue.................and please go ahead and have the last word. Its not up to me to guide but only The God guides.
Peace.
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Peace everyone,
To all those who think that al-masjid al-haraam is a physical building and kaaba is a cuboidal stone structure, I have the following questions
Can you please enlighten me where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people ENTERING into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten me where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who WALKS straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Thank God the pagans did not make a pyramidal structure by the name of DEEN, and a golden highway by the name of SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM, otherwise majority would be worshipping those stone structures nowadays.
Salaam Truthseeker1
You cannot say that all christians believe that jesus is son of God or all jews believe that 3uzair is son of God. This is the dielemma. It's a party of them, but the verse does not say a party of them.
As for other "muharamat", again, copts in generaldo not eat pork. The prohibition of porkis not to be compared to any of the prohibitions mentioned in the straight path there's a (if and but). Moreover, it does not affect the society like the crimes forbidden in he straight path. As for inheritence law, nobody apply them as the quraan decided. The commandment is to write a will, and we only see this as an obligation in western countries which are more christian than muslim. Same with marriage and divorce...
In fact, according to your post,no one apply these things, so I wonder why you did not add Muslims to "people of the book" and make the verse even less logical?Al-masjid al-haraam does not mean institution of obedience OF the forbidden (that would be masjid al-haraam, without the AL before masjid). It means the inviolable institution of obedience
let's not go into linguistci analysis. We are not translating but giving an understanding. I did not say it means "the institution of obedience of the forbidden", because this is meaningless how do you obey the forbidden? Why do you insist that "masjid" is a name of place? Linguistically this is not correct. If so, it should be "masjad" not "masjid", just like "ma3had; maktab...It's a "verbal noun starting with a meem masdar meemi", so it should be translated as "obeying the restriction/ obedience of the restriction".
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Peace,
And "SIRAAT" is not nomina loci? It is as nomina loci as nomina loci can be ! Readers please note that the above poster carefully avoided the "siraat" issue like the plague.
I disagree that "masjid" is only nomina loci. It is same as saying "house" in English is nomina loci. So House of Representatives will mean a stone structure in which Representatives live
As you said, the context determines whether a word is being used as a concrete physical meaning or a metaphorical meaning. The context of usage of "masjid" in the qur'aan clearly indicates that it can only mean "institution of obedience", just like House of Representatives is not a physical house but a legal institution.
This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum with all the references and the qur'aanic evidences. Please use the search function for the appropriate threads. No further comments from me on this issue.................and please go ahead and have the last word. Its not up to me to guide but only The God guides.
Peace.
Dear Truth Seeker Salaam
Please do not pull english into Arabic. You know these are two different langauges and have different implications. Priniciples of one language cannot applied to the other.You said
I disagree that "masjid" is only nomina loci. It is same as saying "house" in English is nomina loci. So House of Representatives will mean a stone structure in which Representatives live
Ok brother what is the scale of Nomina Loci in Arabic ??
In Arabic please give any example of that word like "masjid ,manzil ,matli3 ,maghrib "which is being used as abstract noun.
Not from these three only any other which is on thwe scale of "Maf3ilun or maf3alun".
I need just a single example in whole arabic literature /classical arabic dictionaries in which the word Masjid is used in the sense of institutiton.Most welcome
Regards -
Dear Samai Salaam
Please do not pull english into Arabic. You know these are two different langauges and have different implications. Priniciples of one language cannot applied to the other.
In Arabic please give any example of that word like "masjid ,manzil ,matli3 ,maghrib "which is being used as abstract noun.
Not from these three only any other which is on thwe scale of "Maf3ilun or maf3alun".Most welcome
RegardsSalaam student
How can you explain, in English, an Arabic sentence/phrae/word...etc?Is this pulling english into arabic? Do you have a better way?
What do you mean by "abstract" noun? The language does not start with abstract nouns, but with seen and felt things first, and then these words acquire an abstract meaning. For example, "matla3/matli3" means ascending, but when we say "matla3 shababihi/youth" what would we understand? That his youth is a mountain he is ascending, for example, or a planet that's rising? Does the sun in "in matla3i-sh shams" goes up and down? Same thing with "manbat/manbit" which is mainly for plants. We cannot say of someone "nabata" meaning he grew, but we call his bringing up "manbit". Would you take this as an example of an abstract noun or not? Why?
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Dear Samia
Tahnks for reply
Unfortunately ,I could not understand a few sentences collectivley (I am sorry for that)For example, "matla3/matli3" means ascending, but when we say "matla3 shababihi/youth" what would we understand? That his youth is a mountain he is ascending, for example, or a planet that's rising?
Would you please give me their roots and actual words in arabic text . Sorry for incnconvenience.
As far nabata is concerned- ( 1 / 21133)
nursery; arboretum
Respected Samia ,instead of wandering here and there Please give me a single example of Masjid being used in Arabic literature or Classical arabic dictionaries. We have absolutely no difference of opinion.
Regards - ( 1 / 21133)
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Dear Samia
Tahnks for reply
Unfortunately ,I could not understand a few sentences collectivley (I am sorry for that)Would you please give me their roots and actual words in arabic text . Sorry for incnconvenience.From al Muheet (similar entries in maqayssul lugha)
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ascend a mountain
~As far nabata is concerned
- ( 1 / 21133)
nursery; arboretum
Respected Samia ,instead of wandering here and there Please give me a single example of Masjid being used in Arabic literature or Classical arabic dictionaries. We have absolutely no difference of opinion.
Mar7ab student!
OK. How about "marhaban" ; ma3naa meaning; marji3 (reference), which is an abstract return. Or ma3had a place for doing what?
Why don't we also call the prayer mat masjid? and why the masjid is not a "masla"? Is sujuud the only movement, or even the most important, in a traditional salaat? Why not "marka3"?You write "nabata" but give the entry for "manbat". Although not used in the quraan, but the word "nabatan", another masdar, is, and does not mean "plant"
- ( 1 / 21133)
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From al Muheet (similar entries in maqayssul lugha)
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ascend a mountain
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Mar7ab student!OK. How about "marhaban" ; ma3naa meaning; marji3 (reference), which is an abstract return. Or ma3had a place for doing what?
Why don't we also call the prayer mat masjid? and why the masjid is not a "masla"? Is sujuud the only movement, or even the most important, in a traditional salaat? Why not "marka3"?You write "nabata" but give the entry for "manbat". Although not used in the quraan, but the word "nabatan", another masdar, is, and does not mean "plant"
Dear Samia
In your first example of "Matla3a" it is being used not as Nomina Loci but as Masdar meemi which is obvious in the very first root entery.
As far as the word Marhabaa " is concerned .I have never come across this word as Nomina Loci. Please give evidence that it is Nomina Loici.You said
Why don't we also call the prayer mat masjid? and why the masjid is not a "masla"?
Yes sister that mat is also called "Musalla" not "masla". It shows that probably you are not aware of the method of derivation of nomina loci of "mazeed Fee".
There are millions of nominon loci in the Arabic language ,if you will go on pouring one by one right or wrong ,this discussion will never end.
My request is if you have some any evidence that word masjid has been used in classical literature or dictionaries of classical Arabic dictionaries ,I am ready to accept. Otherwise I have no intention to prolong this baseless discussion.
Regards. -
Peace Samia,
The peacemakers/muslims (with a small m) are supposed to obey all commandments of The God. Anyone who is really a muslim will obey all those commandments. The Muslims (with a capital M) do not have the same focal point as commanded in the qur'aan, because they prostrate to a stone structure and they disobey many of the commandments of The God as you commented, so yes, you can classify them with the other people of the book who have a different focal point.
In fact, the behavior of the current Muslims (with a capital M) actually confirms 2145 and makes it even more logical and fits 2145 perfectly. You can come to them with every sign but they will still not follow the focal point established by The God, by not obeying all the commandments of The God, and by continuing to prostrate to their stone structure, no matter what sign you show them. That is why if we follow their (all the non-muslim people of the book, including the Muslims with a capital M) desires after the knowledge that has come to us, and start prostrating to their stone structures, then we would be one of the wicked.
2145 And if you come to those who have been given the book with every sign they will not follow your focal point, nor will you follow their focal point, nor will some of them even follow each others focal point. And if you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.
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Dear Samia
In your first example of "Matla3a" it is being used not as Nomina Loci but as Masdar meemi which is obvious in the very first root entery.
As far as the word Marhabaa " is concerned .I have never come across this word as Nomina Loci. Please give evidence that it is Nomina Loici.Salaam Student
Sorry for the mix up. My examples were for abstract words of pattern maf3al/maf3il according to your previous post, not the one I was responding to. I am not interested in names of place, how would I give a name of place which is abstract? I give a pattern of name of place which is abstarct and thus is not a name of place in spite of the pattern. This was my first objection to masjid being a name of place because
- It does not fit the pattern of the name of place which is maf3al
- It fits well a masdar meemi.
My request is if you have some any evidence that word masjid has been used in classical literature or dictionaries of classical Arabic dictionaries ,I am ready to accept.
I search for the meaning of the root (the original meaning). Taking into consideration the pattern, and of course the context, I can draw the meaning and/or refute/confirm the given meanings. Dictionaries can sometimes be corrupted by wrong meanings of words, but the root meaning can check this corruption.
How about you giving a pre-quraanic usage of masjid in any meaning? Would the quraan give a word with a known meaning of the root (to be humble/obedient) and expect people to derive from it a place/building where one would be humble/obedient? What's the relation between a mosque and being obedient to the God? Or is it more logical, and confirmed by the pattern of the word (maf3il) to understand masjid as a noun, not of a building? -
Salaam
Of course whatever in the world does not suit my thought and idea is corrupted and false and lie ............Regards
Salaam student
If you are talking about me, you are completely wrong because I did not mention "my opinion"as a reference, but the pattern of the word and the context. In fact, my (thought and idea) was the superficial meaning lacking logic and purpose, and that was what I have been taught and brain washed for years. As for dictionaries, I gave you examples of words whose meanings have been worked backwards from the corrupted meanings given by Muslims. Just have a look at the word "nasakha"to see the meaning of the root (the correct one, according to the context of words based on it and used in the quraan) and then the justification of the corrupted meaning ( to abrogate/delete) to see how some wrods' meanings are worked backward.
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Salaam student
If you are talking about me, you are completely wrong because I did not mention "my opinion"as a reference, but the pattern of the word and the context. In fact, my (thought and idea) was the superficial meaning lacking logic and purpose, and that was what I have been taught and brain washed for years. As for dictionaries, I gave you examples of words whose meanings have been worked backwards from the corrupted meanings given by Muslims. Just have a look at the word "nasakha"to see the meaning of the root (the correct one, according to the context of words based on it and used in the quraan) and then the justification of the corrupted meaning ( to abrogate/delete) to see how some wrods' meanings are worked backward.
Salaam
I would simply say ;Regards
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Salamun alaykum
" O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end " ( 459 ) .
Is this not a further proof that obeying "The Law of God" and 'the law of the land' as the focal point for muslims and believers ?
Peace
almarh0m