A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ
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salaam
alhamdulillah.
and perhaps br almarh0m could start the ball rolling by posting his understanding on 'the journey' mentioned in 171. and also of 531-18.
btw, though i have read surah 53 (an-najm), i have not put down my understanding in writing .
so, wait we shall for br almarh0m, shall we? and thanks in advance.
peace
mohammed noh -
Dear ALL, Dear BKanwar,
I think I have found a very good support to what you are looking, I am personnaly very enthousiast of that finding for your reasearch, maybe you know it already anyway here is the link, a copy of an old Quran, strangely some words are "cut" when going to next line, and some verses are written letter by letter not attached at all, very strange isn't it.
http//goldkoran.mse.jhu.edu/htdocs/mrsid/Koran/
enjoy and peace
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May Rub shower his blessing upon you for your efforts and enthusiasm in the noble cause. I am hoping that a team of dedicated and self motivated people will be able to accomplish this task better and sooner. The task of decoding the eternal message of their creator. I see this wish and hope may get to realisation soon. Thanks again for your efforts, Herbman.
Badar
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Sister Samia, One needs to understanding few basic concepts.
Language and speech are not one and same.
Main purpose of language is to convey information. Nowadays a language, i.e., transfer of information can take various forms. It can be spoken or written, or signed for those who can not hear, Braille for blind or sent in Morse code or semaphore or many other forms when necessity arises 1. However, in earlier times of human history speech was the only form. Later we learned to preserve this information principally conveyed via sound waves, by making symbols representative of sound waves. This method of written preservation continued to evolve. The speech sound themselves are nothing unless one understands, what information is attached to these sound codes. This is what Lexicon is.
For instance just, take word Moaat (death). Phonetically it is only three sounds, Mim, Waw and Ta. So is its written representation. However, this word creates a film of events in our mind based on information that we associate with it. Hence, this all information was needed to be preserved, which it was.
Now to your query. Why I have decided to use from, .
If I look through the lexicon there is no such word as . Furthermore, I can not find a grammatical explanation and rationale of adding Mim and Ta, to root Taqee.
Also several grammar books including Alkitab by Master Arab Grammarian Sibawayh, says that fetha, kesra and dumma are nothing but a different form of their corresponding long vowels, Alif, Ya and Waw. The only difference is quantity i.e., of sound. Hence, Sibawayh calls the wovels Waw and Yaa as Illah to imply ?weakness? or ?phonetic changeability. In certain situations Illah letters are subject to reduction or elision. What Sibawayh considers as elision or "Hadhf", is in many cases a reduction of a long vowel into a short vowel 2. Hence, if I were to take this information into consideration and apply to word in question from AlKitab. The dumma would be a reduction of Waw, now this word becomes a combination of two well know words, and . The meanings of these two words from Lexicon are apparent.
- Vowels and Consonants An Introduction to the sounds of Languages. 2001. Blackwell. Peter Ladefoged
- Sibawayh the Phonologist. A Critical Study of the Phonetic and Phonology Theory of Sibawayh as presented in his Treatise Al-Kitab. A.A.AL-Nassir Monograph No.101993 Kegan Paul International. pp33-34
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Language and speech are not one and same.
Main purpose of language is to convey information. Nowadays a language, i.e., transfer of information can take various forms. It can be spoken or written, or signed for those who can not hear, Braille for blind or sent in Morse code or semaphore or many other forms when necessity arises 1. However, in earlier times of human history speech was the only form. Later we learned to preserve this information principally conveyed via sound waves, by making symbols representative of sound waves. This method of written preservation continued to evolve. The speech sound themselves are nothing unless one understands, what information is attached to these sound codes.
That's fine. When I am speaking and I say , my interlocutor understands that I mean "death". When the sound coming from me has a shorter "wau", they will understand I am asking them to die . Letters and vowels are conveying what we pronounce/say as accurately as posiible. If I say and my system of language makes it , something is wrong with this system.
For instance just, take word Moaat (death). Phonetically it is only three sounds, Mim, Waw and Ta. So is its written representation. However, this word creates a film of events in our mind based on information that we associate with it. Hence, this all information was needed to be preserved, which it was.
Now to your query. Why I have decided to use from, .
If I look through the lexicon there is no such word as .
Of course you may not find it. Arabic lexicons start with the first letter of the root. If you search under "meem/ " you will not find it, nor would you find mu7sin/ ; mu'min / ; mu7san/ ; muslim/ ...etc. Try and search under "wau qaaf alif maqsuura/ ).
Apart from the root, Arabic has a morphology/pattern system, allowing it to grow indefinitely.Also several grammar books including Alkitab by Master Arab Grammarian Sibawayh, says that fetha, kesra and dumma are nothing but a different form of their corresponding long vowels, Alif, Ya and Waw. The only difference is quantity i.e., of sound. Hence, Sibawayh calls the wovels Waw and Yaa as Illah to imply ?weakness? or ?phonetic changeability. In certain situations Illah letters are subject to reduction or elision. What Sibawayh considers as elision or "Hadhf", is in many cases a reduction of a long vowel into a short vowel 2. Hence, if I were to take this information into consideration and apply to word in question from AlKitab. The dumma would be a reduction of Waw, now this word becomes a combination of two well know words, and . The meanings of these two words from Lexicon are apparent.
I am sure that is not all what Sibawayh, or any other grammarian, said regarding 3illa letters ( )and just ignored the rules that apply to deleting or interchanging them. Study it well, and see if you can apply it whenever you want and on whatever word you choose. Then we can take it from there.
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That's fine. When I am speaking and I say , my interlocutor understands that I mean "death". When the sound coming from me has a shorter "wau", they will understand I am asking them to die . Letters and vowels are conveying what we pronounce/say as accurately as posiible. If I say and my system of language makes it , something is wrong with this system.
Sister, there is nothing wrong with that system. The Linguitic field is well expounded now. The phenomenon, of consonant and vowel weakening are real. So are tone changes and conveying meaning by just changing tones of the speech. May be I need to discuss those more in detail, provided any intrest.
With regards,
Badar
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Brother if you follow this thread from the top, it will be clear as to what these words mean, and not necessarily what is usually translated.
May Rab give us his continued guidance.To be honest I didn't read the whole thread lol
I'm a sister by the way ) -
That's fine. When I am speaking and I say , my interlocutor understands that I mean "death". When the sound coming from me has a shorter "wau", they will understand I am asking them to die . Letters and vowels are conveying what we pronounce/say as accurately as posiible. If I say and my system of language makes it , something is wrong with this system.
Dear Sister, is my understading correct that you are implying that word , does exsist in Arabic, meaning "to die", a verb?
Badar
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Brother Mazhar, thanks. We already discussed this. Sister Samia rightly pointed out this. I did my own research, first teshdeed, is euphonic, for nunation only. It does not change the meanings. First part of this so called word remains Li, followed by another vertical line with mark of Jezm. This verticle line with Jezm is a Lam of particle Al (not Alif of La as I thought initially), when combined with Li, initial Alif of Al, is dropped in writing. So from start until first Jezm is "Li, Al". Thanks again for participating.
Badar
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My point was that whether the nunation style, one dhumma straight other reversed, placed on the last word "aleemun" is correct or it should be written with two straight dhuma because it is followed by "al". No where else in the whole of Qur'aan I could find it like this.
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Brother Mazhar, thanks. We already discussed this. Sister Samia rightly pointed out this. I did my own research, first teshdeed, is euphonic, for nunation only. It does not change the meanings. First part of this so called word remains Li, followed by another vertical line with mark of Jezm. This verticle line with Jezm is a Lam of particle Al (not Alif of La as I thought initially), when combined with Li, initial Alif of Al, is dropped in writing. So from start until first Jezm is "Li, Al". Thanks again for participating.
Badar
So what I get from above is Hudanl Li Al Mout Taqeen
All these are separate words carrying individual meanings? And what you are saying is, that this guidance or this Book, where nothing has been left out, enables you to guard yourself against Mout and arms you not to die an intelectual, or other similar death which will make you both individually and collectively like dead. Am I correct in understanding as to this is what you are trying to translate it in essence?
I hope I asked my quesion simply enough above.
May Rab grant us all wisdom and intellect to get his message the way it is meant to be.
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Dear Sister, is my understading correct that you are implying that word , does exsist in Arabic, meaning "to die", a verb?
Badar
Yes. You have it conjugated to the plural in 3158
for, indeed, if you die or are slain, it will surely be unto God that you shall be gathered.
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Yes. You have it conjugated to the plural in 3158
for, indeed, if you die or are slain, it will surely be unto God that you shall be gathered.
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