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  4. Defenition of marriage suggests sex before marriage permitted?!

Defenition of marriage suggests sex before marriage permitted?!

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  • S Offline
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    Samia
    wrote on last edited by
    #506

    So you mean to say that all wrongs what are happening in this world , as they are happening without Divine approval, so God will not issue any instructions regarding them. Samia! you have really lost your bearings.

    No I did not say that. I said God does not regulate them but prohibits them. Show me where in the qur'aan there's a rule for stolen goods, or work resulting form slavery or torture or any aggression. The acts are prohibited and any gain from them should not be allowed as well.

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      siki
      wrote on last edited by
      #507

      Remember, I was annswering your questions to me, not commenting on your understanding.
      If you maintain that MMA are sub category of Muhsans, how come one becomes rich and of a higher status and the other a sex slave?.

      How come I do not find all elligible ladies equal in, beauty , status and wealth these days? When i make a best effort to filter out haram zanias fahishas and mushriqas.

      siki

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        siki
        wrote on last edited by
        #508

        No I did not say that. I said God does not regulate them but prohibits them. Show me where in the qur'aan there's a rule for stolen goods, or work resulting form slavery or torture or any aggression. The acts are prohibited and any gain from them should not be allowed as well.

        Is control dissipiation culminating into extinction, identified as a regulation?

        Do we have a commandment , like " This day all slaves are free and All MMA upgraded as Nikahed wives of the posseser " ? And if He has NOT done that, You think you carry better wisdom than the All Mighty?

        siki

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          Samia
          wrote on last edited by
          #509

          Where did i say that Male slaves and the women who were possesed with right hand were same? and if you have read my old posts you would exactly know who and how MMA came along .

          siki

          MMA are of both gender. Scan the qur'aan and you will find that women too can have MMA. Also verses 7022-30 are describing both genders (precisely al musalleen) and is speaking of their MMA or spouses

          7029

          And those who guard their private parts,
          7030

          Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed

          I thought you already know that, but it seems I am giving you an undeserved privilege

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            Q_student
            wrote on last edited by
            #510

            Huruf is sister ;D.

            Peace
            Oh! Sorry laugh

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              siki
              wrote on last edited by
              #511

              MMA are of both gender. Scan the qur'aan and you will find that women too can have MMA. Also verses 7022-30 are describing both genders (precisely al musalleen) and is speaking of their MMA or spouses

              7029

              And those who guard their private parts,
              7030

              Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed

              I thought you already know that, but it seems I am giving you an undeserved privilege

              They might be, but first accept their existence, only then we can move forward to find weather HURUF is a sister, brother or both

              siki

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                Samia
                wrote on last edited by
                #512

                Is control dissipiation culminating into extinction, identified as a regulation?

                Do we have a commandment , like " This day all slaves are free and All MMA upgraded as Nikahed wives of the posseser " ? And if He has NOT done that, You think you carry better wisdom than the All Mighty?

                siki

                No

                No

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                  siki
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #513

                  Neither of them can define the exact nature of MMA "from the Quran". Ultimately they will have to refer to dictionaries of Classical Arabic.

                  Nor can you find the content or procedure for salat connection in the book , but you still keep going at it, probably five times a day, why?

                  siki

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                    siki
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #514

                    Siki, you are taking whatever Samia says and whatever I say and mixing it anyway you fancy as if it was one and the same thing. Well, Samia is Samia and Huruf is Huruf. You cannot answer to Samia and mix in whatever you want to add from my posts nor nswer to me and mix in similarly Samias posts. You are harping on me with the sexless marriage, when actually I havent said myself a word on that, all I have done is try to clarify how Samia got to it and her arguments. In fact you seemed to be bent on making recruits for Samia's understanding by pushing me to join out of despite of your words. But I am still where I was a at the beginning, I am considering everything, Samia's understanding included and I will reach a conclusion whenever I find it justified, or I will not reach if I don't find sufficient foundation.

                    Huruf. salam

                    Not only that you buy her ideas, but go a step further, and provide nonsensical justifications for her illogical postulates. And then you accuse me of bundling you two together unjustly?
                    On the flip side, have you even once posted a remark giving me a feeling that what all i am posting is Not Trash?

                    siki

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                      siki
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #515

                      Of course it is you who says the part in red. The Qur'an does not say it. In fact if a child is born of that pleasure, are you saying that the Qur'an means the father is under no obligation whatsoever?

                      Child, if any, born out of this Mutta contract do not inherit , and as for providing sustenance by the biological father, i am not too sure , probably some Irani brother/or sister can update us. What all I understand is,

                      "Walla junnaha fima tardeed um bihi , min baadij faridha tin"

                      "Faridda tin" , is obligation, before touching her sexually, it is obligatory for the man to pay ajar , and after the woman is through with her obligation (of providing contractual sex) there is no blame upon them to what ever they both agree. It probably suggests that they can decide mutually for the after affects of this adventure.

                      siki

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                        Samia
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #516

                        Child, if any, born out of this Mutta contract do not inherit , and as for providing sustenance by the biological father, i am not too sure , probably some Irani brother/or sister can update us.

                        I do not want the thread derailed, but just to remind you that this forum is to study qur'aan, not shia's or sunni's unederstandings.
                        Those children born out of this mutt3a contract Is it your opinion that they do not inheri? If so, what's your proof? If it's not your opinion, re-read the first line of my post.

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                          SarahY
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #517

                          AFAIK in terms of mutta relationships the father of the child still has to support the child.

                          anyway 35 pages what were the conclusions? if anyone would like to sum it up otherwise i'll have to read through it after a couple of weeks.

                          peace

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                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #518

                            They might be, but first accept their existence, only then we can move forward to find weather HURUF is a sister, brother or both

                            siki

                            dear brother, It is highly advisable that you take a break for a week or so and come back with a fresh mind so that you are able to take part in a mature discussion, what you said in above post is utter nonsense.

                            thanks

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                              almarh0m
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #519

                              Peace

                              What is the use of participating in a discussion when one's position is already set in concrete ? It is very entertaining though I must admit .

                              almarh0m

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                                Tlepsh
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #520

                                379 It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be slaves of me rather than God!?, rather ?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?

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                                  almarh0m
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #521

                                  Salamun alaykum

                                  " Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe " ( 2951 ) .

                                  " O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end " ( 459 ) .

                                  Peace

                                  almarh0m

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                                    Samia
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #522

                                    Samia !

                                    salam

                                    And if you cant , i shall relight them for you tomorrow.

                                    siki

                                    It's not I can't, but I believed I answered all your questions to me. I might be wrong. So let's see tomorrow, and thanks.

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                                      nimnimak_11
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #523

                                      Salamun alaykum

                                      " Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe " ( 2951 ) .

                                      " O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end " ( 459 ) .

                                      Peace

                                      almarh0m

                                      Great idea bravo

                                      Better to ask God for guidance when your unsure and stick to your reason, logic and heart.

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                                        huruf
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #524

                                        So, it seems that an important part of answering the initial part of the thread is to determine what are the MMA. One opinion is that they are slaves, or sexual slaves and typically females, another is that they are the spouses in a non-sex marriage, another which I am not sure it has been mentioned in this thread is that they are persons gone over to the believers who were married to unbelievers when they went over and were under the protection of the believers. I do not know whether there are any more theories. If there are, they could be added to the list and may be the whole can be organized and weighed. In and by itself, determining the meaning of MMA is obviously very important. It is also possible that more than one of those meanings might be combined.

                                        Salaam

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                                          nimnimak_11
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #525

                                          Peace Samia

                                          I know you're in discussion but if i'm not wrong you think ajr is something that's ongoing.

                                          I've looked at truthseeker's comments on this and think that he's right based on how the prophet had already given the ujoor 3350

                                          So i just wanted to ask (whenever you can) i'd be greatful if you can give your understanding of ajr in 3350 and how it can be something that's ongoing when it's already been given.

                                          Using 3350, is their a chance that the prophet was already giving ajr before the marrige?
                                          I mean is it definate that ajr has to come after marriage?

                                          Could it not be that your giving ajr to someone and then you choose to marry them? Thus after your nikah ajr is already in place??

                                          Thanks

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