Do you believe hijab is mandatory?
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peace Qstudent,
Thanks for displaying the strength of your argument by not answering my questions or responding to my points.
"Websites are not equavalent to Quran."? Thanks for the insight. Speaking of websites and insights, I also have one having sight is not equivalent to seeing.
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sister Sarah,
There is no need to be confused. For sake of argument, let's say ALL Classical Arabic Dictionaries (CAD) in the entire world state "khimaar" means "headcover", and if we wish to use non-Quranic evidence such as this, why not look to the traditional ahadith which clearly show it does not mean "headcover". Better yet, why not carbon date the two sources CAD versus ahadith, let's see which is older. If we find ahadith is older, then bingo, this will critically damage CAD's case. If we find ahadith are newer than CAD, then we can only assume someone forged these ahadith to give a more lenient meaning to khimaar in some sort of pro-women feminist conspiracy! And no-one said "hey, wait a second, khimaar does not mean any cover, who forged these ahadith?" As we can all see this is nonsensical, but quite amusing I might add.
Of course, the above is a sideline. AQ weights the answer in favour of "khimaar" not meaning "headcover", this is fact. Thus, it will come down to what a person gives more weight to, what AQ says or what CAD says (even if we assume they all say the same thing). Qstudent has already made clear what he takes as his authority.
I think there is such a thing as common sense and I also think that the Qur'an counts on that. Let us say that we do not have any khimar at hand. That would obviously mean that women should let their breasts uncovered, because the important part is that you use a khimar, whatever that is, and not to cover the breasts. Right?
Salaam
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When I responded to your post, I had this verse in my mind
3359
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the women of the believers, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons which is more convenient that they should be known and not harmed. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
I think that 33.59 do not refer to the same thing. The an-nur aleya deal with a generality of social behaviour, 33.59 deals with very specific circumstances of strife and hostility. Not does it follow from it that ANY other circumstances would require the same resources.
Salaam
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May peace and blessings of Allah be upon you all,
I think it is optional, now those of you who believe it is mandatory, plz do not start critizing me, mocking me and jugding me, plz remember You are not Allah, you may not assert. (i got this from a book called will of Allah) and so if you think I am doing wrong by becoming free minded muslim plz dont start fighting as it is not your concern Allah will be there to judge. thank you for reading and answering.Peace,
Respectfully.Which is why we must always provide evidence from The Quran. I always ask sunnis, where in The Quran does it say that a woman must cover her hair and in some cases face and hands? I never get direct answers, because they get angry and just call me kafir or sometimes they say i'm walking on a dangerous path.
Glory be to our God,
Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
peace,
Let us say that we do not have any khimar at hand. That would obviously mean that women should let their breasts uncovered, because the important part is that you use a khimar, whatever that is, and not to cover the breasts. Right?
Are you implying the point of the verse is to use their "khumur" (covers/headcovers), and the point is not the covering of what parts?
The verse tells us exactly the point, it is about their beauty, not an extrinsic component/garment, and it says "...composition of women", not composition of a garment. Not to mention, the words "composition of women" strongly suggest it is refering to what is specific to a woman, and that can only be breasts and private parts, further proving what parts it is referring to. All the Quranic evidence is reinforcing and complimenting each other.
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No, Wakas, I am not implyig that, Precisely what I intend is making it obvious that to make the central indication of the aya on particular piece of clothing is misusing the aya, but what is intended is to cover the breasts and the kjimar is just an accessory, may be it is mentioned because it offers as quick, uncomplicated way of doing it whithout having to sew or do repairs to usual clothing, but the important thing is to cover the breasts not to use a particular piece of clothing. You fell for it, right? and you were shocked. That's right. It is not about the khimar, it is about the breasts.
Salaam
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Translating what you quote from lisaanul 3arab
(al khimaar for the woman is alnaseef, and it's said that al khimaar is what the woman covers her head with...)
Is this what you call "The Primary meaning of "Khimaar" is "head cover"? I am pointing at the bolded underlined word ( and it's said...). This s not primary!
And since we are at it, did you bother to know what / al naseef is? In this context in lisaanul 3arab, it could mean anything but head cover.
Not only don't you know how to consult a dictionary, you do not understand simple Arabic!
This is your way to retrieve your lies? You could have at least apologized, but it seems that this kind of good manners is not accessible to the arrogant.Dear Sister
You probably do not know what "Naseef " is .It is also another name of head cover .
MIsbah ul Mnir which you intentionally left says;- ( 1 / 181)
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THE CLOTH with which the woman COVERS HER HEAD
Now you realize why did you leave out this translation because it did not give you any clue to create any confusion as you are trying with the word 'naseef" which is synonymous with head cover.I requested you to visit Lane's Lexixon and Put down here what he says . I am again giving its Reference.Please Look Khimaar of original Lane's pages
LL V2 page 445
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmGA PERVAIZ LUGHAT UL QURAN
Khah, miim, rah
Khamr to cover or hide something khamarash shaiyia yakhmir hid him; covered him
khamarar falanun shahadah he hid the evidence alkhamar veil; a cloth with which
women cover their heads (orhni) * plural is khumur 2431 Lataiful Lugha says at first
the women used to put on alghifaarah on their heads; and alkhimarah over it (for
ghifaarah see heading ghain, feh, rah) alkhamrALMAWRAD ;
=
VEIL ,YASHMAK (WORN BY WOMEN)ARABIC -ENGLISH DICTIONARY BY HANS WEHR
= VEIL COVERING HEAD AND FACE OF A WOMAN.
So there is no doubt that word "Khimaar " means "Head Cover".
Regards -
Dear Sister
You probably do not know what "Naseef " is .It is also another name of head cover .
MIsbah ul Mnir which you intentionally left says;- ( 1 / 181)
( )
Where's the word /alnaseef in this quote? Do you understand now why i "intentionally" left this Misbaah Muneer? Because it's just saying "alkhimar is a cloth with which a woman covers her head...".
I know what naseef is, do you? So far you did not bring any meaning for al naseef. -
Where's the word /alnaseef in this quote? Do you understand now why i "intentionally" left this Misbaah Muneer? Because it's just saying "alkhimar is a cloth with which a woman covers her head...".
I know what naseef is, do you? So far you did not bring any meaning for al naseef.Dear Sister
YOU accepted the reason for avoiding this dictionary ,Thanks.
yay yay rotflRegards
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Q_student, it's amazing how intentionally (or otherwise) dense you are playing this.
You probably do not know what "Naseef " is
Where's the word /alnaseef in this quote? So far you did not bring any meaning for al naseef.
YOU accepted the reason for avoiding this dictionary ,Thanks.
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peace,
Qstudent, you may have some use.
Would you be so kind as to clarify the following from Classical Arabic dictionaries
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Do any say that the plural "khumur" can mean anything other than "headcovers (plural)".
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What meanings do they give for "khimirr" (which, as far as I'm aware "khumur" can be a plural for).
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Do any of them make reference to the traditional ahadith mentioned by Ibn Kathir? e.g. www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=24&tid=35857
I have even numbered the questions to make it easy for you. Thanks.
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peace,
Qstudent, you may have some use.
Would you be so kind as to clarify the following from Classical Arabic dictionaries
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Do any say that the plural "khumur" can mean anything other than "headcovers (plural)".
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What meanings do they give for "khimirr" (which, as far as I'm aware "khumur" can be a plural for).
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Do any of them make reference to the traditional ahadith mentioned by Ibn Kathir? e.g. www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=24&tid=35857
I have even numbered the questions to make it easy for you. Thanks.
Peace Brother
Please Consult Lane's lexicon under Khimaar, you will get answer of all of your questions.
Regards -
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check this site
http//www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210776
the complete opposite of freeminds! laugh
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peace Qstudent,
That's not what I asked, so that doesn't help.
Peace,
effort in = benefit out rotfl ;D
As for my personal opinion about "hijab", is that it is not mandatory.
Remember "...The best garment of righteousnes is the best..." (726) -
Peace Q_student,
Please Consult Lane's lexicon under Khimaar, you will get answer of all of your questions
I asked you in the circumcision thread to look at other opinions and you demanded that I look to and bring references. Now when you're asked the very same thing you ask me, that is to bring evidence from references you scoff at the idea that someone should ask you that? Isn't that hypocrisy? You were asked to bring certain evidence from lexicons and then you throw it back in the face of Wakas and say, "no you go look". Sounds to me you have a problem with other people's evidence and think yours alone is the truth.
Joe
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Peace
then how can I help you
Do what he asked of you like I did what you asked of me in the circumcision thread. Although it bore no fruit since you rejected the opposing evidence to your ideas of the truth. Even still I cited and posted references.
Joe
