Is man created on God's image?
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Evidence is welcomed, if you have any.
Peace754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and Earth in six days, then He settled upon the throne. The night runs from the day, which seeks it continually; and the sun and the moon and the stars are all subjected by His command; to Him is the creation and the command. Glory be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
Why did He take six days, because He is a superman creating doing one thing at a time. Then he settled on the Throne. If you think throne means control or management, this is bogus as of the following verse,
2386 Say Who is the Lord of the seven universes and the Lord of the great throne?
The throne is decribed as Great and separate from the Heavens. Thats actually a real throne.
3975 And you will see the angels surrounding the throne, glorifying the praise of their Lord. And it will be judged between them with truth, and it will be said Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds
How da heck can you surround the Throne if its a metaphor.
6917 And the angels will be on its borders, and the throne of your Lord will be carried above them by eight.
Throne is an actual thing!
7143 So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said My Lord, let me look upon you. He said You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me. So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said Glory be to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe.
Note God told him you WILL see me if it stood in place and He revealed Himself. SUPERMAN!
God is within time,
2247 And they seek you to hasten the retribution; and God will not break His promise. And a day with your Lord is like one thousand of the years you count.
Actually it takes time to reach Him,
325 He arranges matters from the heaven to the Earth, then it ascends to Him in a day which is equivalent to one thousand of the years which you count.
God will come through the clouds with the Angels!
2210 Are they waiting for God to come to them shadowed in clouds with the angels? The matter would then be finished! And to God all matters will return.
The Quran didn't deny it! God will come with Angels carrying the throne and praising Him. The Angels is like God's military!
2525 And the Day when the sky will be filled with clouds, and the angels will be sent down in succession.
3969 And the Earth will shine with the light of its Lord, and the record will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought forth; and it will then be judged between them with truth, and they will not be wronged.
God is a King, luminicient superman sitting on a throne moving with His soldiers.
You are the one who must give evidence that God is a singularity trancednant outside of time yada yada yada! peace
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754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and Earth in six days, then He settled upon the throne. The night runs from the day, which seeks it continually; and the sun and the moon and the stars are all subjected by His command; to Him is the creation and the command. Glory be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and earth in six days, and then He established the authority. The night covers the day, which seeks it continually; and the sun and the moon and the stars are all subjected to His law; to Him is the creation and the law. Glory be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
Edip-Layth - Quran A Reformist Translation
Edip-Layth - End Note 17 (754)
This verse, like many other verses informs us that God is employing evolution and stages in His creation (419-10; 769; 1528-29; 2445; 2918-20; 327-9; 7114-17). Furthermore, creation in six days provides a yardstick regarding the times allocated for the creation of the earth and the universe. According the Quran the creation of earth took four out of six days. If universe started 13.7 billion years ago, ignoring the possibility of early inflation, then 4/6th of this, would be approximately 9 billion years, which is about 4 billion years more than currently estimated age. According to the Bible, God created the universe for a special purpose (Psalms 1356), and creation shows the power of God (Isaiah 4026,2, His glory and handiwork (Psalms 191), and the wisdom of God (Psalms 10424; 1365). In six days. Exodus 2011; 3117). First day, making light and dividing it from darkness (Genesis 13-5; 2Co 46). Second day, making the firmament or atmosphere, and separating the waters (Genesis 16-. Third day, separating the land from the water, and making it fruitful (Genesis 19-13). Fourth day, placing the sun, moon, and stars to give light (Genesis 114-19). Fifth day, making birds, insects, and fish (Genesis 120-23). Sixth day, making beasts of the earth, and man (Genesis 124,2. God rested on the seventh day (Genesis 22- 3). Those who distorted the revelation in the Bible misunderstood the meaning of the phrase "six days" as "six 24-hour days." According to the Bible, the earth is only 5700-plus years old. The Quran rejects the assertion of God "resting" on the seventh day (503.2247 They seek you to hasten the retribution; and God will not break His promise. A day with your Lord is like one thousand of the years you count
325 He arranges matters from the heaven to the earth, and then it ascends to Him in a day which is equivalent to one thousand of the years which you count
704 The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day which is equivalent to fifty thousand years
37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning, metaphoric or allegorical. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
Perhaps you will pay heed.
Peace
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754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and earth in six days, and then He established the authority. The night covers the day, which seeks it continually; and the sun and the moon and the stars are all subjected to His law; to Him is the creation and the law. Glory be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
Edip-Layth - Quran A Reformist Translation
Edip-Layth - End Note 17 (754)
This verse, like many other verses informs us that God is employing evolution and stages in His creation (419-10; 769; 1528-29; 2445; 2918-20; 327-9; 7114-17). Furthermore, creation in six days provides a yardstick regarding the times allocated for the creation of the earth and the universe. According the Quran the creation of earth took four out of six days. If universe started 13.7 billion years ago, ignoring the possibility of early inflation, then 4/6th of this, would be approximately 9 billion years, which is about 4 billion years more than currently estimated age. According to the Bible, God created the universe for a special purpose (Psalms 1356), and creation shows the power of God (Isaiah 4026,2, His glory and handiwork (Psalms 191), and the wisdom of God (Psalms 10424; 1365). In six days. Exodus 2011; 3117). First day, making light and dividing it from darkness (Genesis 13-5; 2Co 46). Second day, making the firmament or atmosphere, and separating the waters (Genesis 16-. Third day, separating the land from the water, and making it fruitful (Genesis 19-13). Fourth day, placing the sun, moon, and stars to give light (Genesis 114-19). Fifth day, making birds, insects, and fish (Genesis 120-23). Sixth day, making beasts of the earth, and man (Genesis 124,2. God rested on the seventh day (Genesis 22- 3). Those who distorted the revelation in the Bible misunderstood the meaning of the phrase "six days" as "six 24-hour days." According to the Bible, the earth is only 5700-plus years old. The Quran rejects the assertion of God "resting" on the seventh day (503.2247 They seek you to hasten the retribution; and God will not break His promise. A day with your Lord is like one thousand of the years you count
325 He arranges matters from the heaven to the earth, and then it ascends to Him in a day which is equivalent to one thousand of the years which you count
704 The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day which is equivalent to fifty thousand years
37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning, metaphoric or allegorical. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
Perhaps you will pay heed.
Peace
Peace,
Where is the proof?? I gave multiple verses that confirm that God is like a Man. Note that God created Man in the best image. It is the best because it is HIS image. Proof from two texts. Ofcourse the corporeality of God in the Torah is deafening.
You just quoted a mistranslation and then 37.
There is no confusion in the corporeality of God. It is a straightforward rendition of the verses.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace Rami,
"754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and Earth in six days, then He settled upon the throne. The night runs from the day, which seeks it continually; and the sun and the moon and the stars are all subjected by His command; to Him is the creation and the command. Glory be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
Why did He take six days, because He is a superman creating doing one thing at a time. Then he settled on the Throne. If you think throne means control or management, this is bogus as of the following verse,"
Response Your thinking is flawed, your logic flawed. Why would you reject the option that the God was doing numerous simultaneous tasks in those six days? Do you know the complexity of such creation? Do you even comprehend the creation? If He chose to do it in six days than that is his wish. You have no say in it. Why don?t you show us that you can do a better creation in less than six days?
Moreover, if you allow the God to be like human (superman) than you must allow other creations to think that the creator looks like them. See the dilemma you created via your illogical thinking.
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Peace Rami,
"754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and Earth in six days, then He settled upon the throne. The night runs from the day, which seeks it continually; and the sun and the moon and the stars are all subjected by His command; to Him is the creation and the command. Glory be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
Why did He take six days, because He is a superman creating doing one thing at a time. Then he settled on the Throne. If you think throne means control or management, this is bogus as of the following verse,"
Response Your thinking is flawed, your logic flawed. Why would you reject the option that the God was doing numerous simultaneous tasks in those six days? Do you know the complexity of such creation? Do you even comprehend the creation? If He chose to do it in six days than that is his wish. You have no say in it. Why dont you show us that you can do a better creation in less than six days?
Moreover, if you allow the God to be like human (superman) than you must allow other creations to think that the creator looks like them. See the dilemma you created via your illogical thinking.
Guest,
You are talking without any evidence. All the scriptures are against you. I have strong textual support without the logical wishful thinking.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace Rami,
The Qur'aan clearly states that G-d is omniscient and omnipresent. This is not even in debate...
To G-d belongs the east and the west; so wherever you turn is the face/presence of G-d. G-d is Encompassing (Omnipresent), Omniscient. (2115)
What I wanna know is WHERE DOES THE TORAH IMPLY THAT G-D IS CORPOREAL? You still haven't provided any sources for this claim, especially considering the fact that Judaism, which is based on the guidance from the Torah, firmly emphasizes the idea that G-d is incorporeal, omniscient and omnipresent. So, where are you getting your conclusion about the Torah from?
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Peace Rami,
The Qur'aan clearly states that G-d is omniscient and omnipresent. This is not even in debate...
To G-d belongs the east and the west; so wherever you turn is the face/presence of G-d. G-d is Encompassing (Omnipresent), Omniscient. (2115)
What I wanna know is WHERE DOES THE TORAH IMPLY THAT G-D IS CORPOREAL? You still haven't provided any sources for this claim, especially considering the fact that Judaism, which is based on the guidance from the Torah, firmly emphasizes the idea that G-d is incorporeal, omniscient and omnipresent. So, where are you getting your conclusion about the Torah from?
Peace Bilal,
God is indeed very corporeal in the Torah. Maybe in the Quran He is vaguely corporeal but in the Torah, it is a bit too evident. Lets read shall we
Gen 38 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
Gen 39 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
Gen 310 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
Gen 311 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
Gen 312 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."
Gen 313 Then the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."Are you beginning to believe? The idea that God is incorporeal is a feature in Hellenistic thought that Jews grasped later on. God is an all-powerful superman sitting on a throne who uses Angels to relay information to and forth the seven heavens and the Earth. There is nothing like God because to be like Him you must have all the features He has but there none who has it.
Peace,
Rami
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1121 Say, "He is God, the One,"
1122 God is Absolutely Independent/Eternal (samad)
1123 "Never did He beget, nor was He begotten,"
1124 "None is equal to Him." -
We are not created in Allahs image
If it is possible, then you are impling that allah is physical and someone have seen allah before
Even in the Quran where it was narated that Moses saw Allah, He never saw Him, it was the sparking of a light that fell Him down
ALLAHU ALAMU -
Peace Rami,
God is indeed very corporeal in the Torah. Maybe in the Quran He is vaguely corporeal but in the Torah, it is a bit too evident. Lets read shall we
Gen 38 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
Gen 39 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
Gen 310 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
Gen 311 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
Gen 312 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."
Gen 313 Then the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."Are you beginning to believe? The idea that God is incorporeal is a feature in Hellenistic thought that Jews grasped later on. God is an all-powerful superman sitting on a throne who uses Angels to relay information to and forth the seven heavens and the Earth. There is nothing like God because to be like Him you must have all the features He has but there none who has it.
This is not a sound argument, and that passage is completely metaphorical. As the Jewish scribes and sages often mentioned, the Torah was written in the "language of man", or able for humans to understand it simply. Judaism has always maintained the concept of G-d's incorporeality. For example, the scriptures state that nothing is like G-d, and nothing can be compared to Him. This, in essence, means that He has no body, since if He did, He could be compared to other bodies.
Think about this, Rami. If G-d is corporeal, this means He has a physical body, and this means He occupies space and is subject to time. If G-d occupies space, then there is a way to escape Him, since no physical being can be in two places at one time. So, all somebody would have to do is go to a really dark room and do injustice and wrongdoing, assuming that G-d would never find out. Otherwise, the person could have someone else "distract" G-d to allude His attention; in the meantime, the person is committing wrongdoing while G-d is not paying attention... Is this logical, in your opinion?
For G-d to be "G-d", it doesn't have anything to do with possessing all of His features. This is impossible in the physical sense at all, since the scriptures emphasize that NOTHING is comparable to G-d... Now, in reality, based on this idea, if G-d was physical, He could be compared to other physical beings; and if He was spiritual, He could be compared to other spirit creatures. So, G-d must be neither of these. On the contrary, both physical and spiritual beings were created by G-d, and neither of them can be compared to Him. Therefore, He is incorporeal...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Rami,
This is not a sound argument, and that passage is completely metaphorical. As the Jewish scribes and sages often mentioned, the Torah was written in the "language of man", or able for humans to understand it simply. Judaism has always maintained the concept of G-d's incorporeality. For example, the scriptures state that nothing is like G-d, and nothing can be compared to Him. This, in essence, means that He has no body, since if He did, He could be compared to other bodies.
Think about this, Rami. If G-d is corporeal, this means He has a physical body, and this means He occupies space and is subject to time. If G-d occupies space, then there is a way to escape Him, since no physical being can be in two places at one time. So, all somebody would have to do is go to a really dark room and do injustice and wrongdoing, assuming that G-d would never find out. Otherwise, the person could have someone else "distract" G-d to allude His attention; in the meantime, the person is committing wrongdoing while G-d is not paying attention... Is this logical, in your opinion?
For G-d to be "G-d", it doesn't have anything to do with possessing all of His features. This is impossible in the physical sense at all, since the scriptures emphasize that NOTHING is comparable to G-d... Now, in reality, based on this idea, if G-d was physical, He could be compared to other physical beings; and if He was spiritual, He could be compared to other spirit creatures. So, G-d must be neither of these. On the contrary, both physical and spiritual beings were created by G-d, and neither of them can be compared to Him. Therefore, He is incorporeal...
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace Bilal,
Body of G-d
We find in Berachot 6a
"R' Abin the son of Rav Ada said in the name of R' Isaac How do we know that the holy One, blessed be He, puts on tefillin? For it is said, 'G-d swore on his right hand, on his strong arm' 'On his strong arm,' this is tefillinWhat is written in the Master of the Universe's tefillin? He said, 'And what one nation on Earth is like Your people Israel?'And in the other sections what is there? 'Who is a great nation?' 'Happy are you, O Israel,' 'Or has G-d assayed to go,' 'And to make you high' are all written in His tefillin. (All of these verses are written in one compartment on His arm--Rashi)
G-d, who has not the form of a body and has no body, and about whom the concepts of a body cannot be said, may He be blessed, has a head and a left arm upon which to place tefillin? On the other hand, before us we have a clear and explicit gemara, not a parable and not a euphemism. Not only do Chazal accept (as obvious) that the Holy One, blessed be He, puts on tefillin, they determine which verses are written in each and every compartment in the tefillin on G-d's arm! Even the Rishonim do not disagree with this at all.
If someone would now come to religious people and say that G-d has a body, an arm, a head, a face, anger and desires -- not only would he be called an apostate, he'd be called crazy. It is as though it has always been accepted and known to us that G-d cannot be spoken of in terms of a body and this is what our Sages held, learned, and have always taught.
It this so? Let us open books and check.
Many gemaras and aggadic midrashim, and even verses of the Torah and words of the prophets imply that G-d has a body, a head, an arm (upon which the Holy One, blessed be He, places tefillin) and He has fingers, palms, a face, a back, ("And I will take away My hand, and you see My back parts, but My face shall not be seen," Exodus 3323). He has legs ("The earth is My footstool," Isaiah 661). And He, may He be blessed, sometimes gets angry and is appeased and sometimes gets furious and punishes. There are many more such anthropomorphisms concerning G-d -- statements which attribute human qualities to Him.
A wise student will certainly say that these all are nothing but parable, imagery, and metaphor, that "the Torah spoke in human language" and that the intention certainly was not that G-d really has human qualities, but all these statements are secrets and hints, covert and concealed. That is what our generation believes, but what did previous generations think? Did they also think as we do?
We will bring some statements by our great rabbis who thought that G-d indeed does have a physical body.
Maimonides, in The Laws of Repentance 37, wrote "Five are called apostatesone who says there is one G-d to the world, but He has body and image." The Ra'avad criticized him, "And why is this called apostasy? Some of those greater than he believed this, based on what they saw in the Scriptures, and even more on what they saw in the Aggadah, which distorts one's mind." This is the Ra'avad's testimony that Torah scholars greater than Maimonides thought that G-d has body and image (that He can be grasped by the senses). About Maimonides it is said, "From Moses to Moses there arose none like Moses" and who is "greater" than he? The Tannaim and Amoraim. Indeed, as we have seen, the Mishnah and Gemara reflect their belief in the physical nature of G-d, while Maimonides tried long and hard to refute these beliefs in his book "A Guide to the Perplexed" (see there). Certainly he would not have tried so hard and given so many explanations were the anthropomorphic concepts not so deeply rooted in the words of Chazal and the Gemara.
Thus testified R' Yedayah the son of Abraham, who lived in 13th century France (as brought in the Rashba's responsa, part one, paragraph 41 "It is very well known that belief in material aspects spread in the early generations throughout almost all the Diaspora from the very day of the exile." In the will attributed to Maimonides )Igros Kushta, 277, p. 15), it is written about the Jews of France "They speak despisingly of the Creator, blessed be He, in their books, and use anthropomorphic descriptions concerning the Creator, blessed be He, time and again."
Moreover, Maimonides admitted that he really forced the Scripture to make it match his viewpoint -- his opposition to anthropomorphic conceptualizations of G-d. He wrote in "A Guide to the Perplexed," part two, chapter 25 "The Scriptures do not show that the world is created ex nihilo any more than they show that G-d has a physical nature. But the gates of interpretation are not closed before usand it would be possible to interpret them as we have done when we rejected the physical nature when we interpreted the Scriptures in a way denying G-d's physical nature."
This you should know -- all those whom Maimonides called apostates have explicit verses to support them! Maimonides has neither verses nor Gemara to back him up on this issue; not only is it not explicit in the Torah, repeated in the Prophets, and said a third time in the Writings, but the Scriptures show exactly the opposite, as the Ra'avad pointed out.
The Gemara in Avodah Zarah 46a "'You shall not make before me' (Exodus 2019) --you shall not make images of the servants who serve before Me in the Heavens. Abaye said, 'The Torah only forbade the Four Faces All faces are permitted aside from the face of man 'You shall not make before me' -- you shall not make Me 'You shall not make before me' -- do not make image of the servants who serve before Me in the Heavens, such as the Ophanim, the Seraphim, the holy animals, and the Heavenly host. Abaye said, 'The Torah forbade only those who serve on the upper level'." According to the Gemara, there are physical forms to those who serve the Holy One, blessed be He, and even G-d Himself has a form. What is His form? The form of Man. (Perhaps they determined this based on the verse, 'For in the image of G-d made He man," Genesis 96.) Therefore they specifically forbade the image of Man, as they said, "'You shall not make before me' -- you shall not make Me."
And thus ruled the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah, paragraph 141, section 4) "It if is forbidden to draw the images on the level of the Shechinah, such as the Four Faces and also the forms of the Sepharim and Ophanim and the Heavenly host, and also the form of Man." (It would be interesting to ask According to the Shulchan Aruch, what form do the Heavenly hosts have?) The Tosfot on Avodah Zarah 43a, s.v. lo ta'asun iti, wrote "This is puzzling, for the face of Man by itself is forbidden, so why did they have to forbid the forms of those who serve in the Heavens? it should be said that certainly there is, above, neither angel nor Seraph nor Ophan with an actual human form, as is said in Hagiga 15a, 'they have noback.'." That is, the angels have human form, but no backs. (?)
But these laws again contradict the Gemara in Yevamot 49b "Menashe killed Isaiah He said to him your teacher Moses said, 'No man can see Me and live' (Exodus 23), and you said, 'And I saw G-d sitting on a high and extolled chair' (Isaiah 61)? All the prophets looked through an aspaklaria which is not clear, but Moses our teacher looked through an aspaklaria which is clear." Rashi explained " thought they were seeing, but they did not see, while Moses looked through a clear aspaklaria and knew that he was not seeing His face." So we see all the Sages agreeing that Moses and the prophets all saw a physical G-d who has a form. The Sages merely discussed the quality with which they saw Him and which parts of Him they saw. We should say, incidentally, that according to this Gemara there was no need to forbid the forms of ox, lion, and eagle, for the prophets only saw these forms because they looked through unclean glass
Come and see that not only to G-d and the angels do the Rishonim grant physicality. Nachmanides anthropomorphized even Heaven and Hell. This is what he wrote in the book Torat HaAdam, Shaar HaGmul, section 121 "Here are some of the places where they spoke of Gehennam , and of the sorrow and punishment of those who go there, in the Talmud and in the midrashim, and they measured its shape. These things and the like should not be considered a parable or a puzzle, for they named its place and measured its length and width."
In section 123 he wrote, "Paradise is found in this world, in one of the places on earth. This is a fundamental of the Torah and its interpretation by the Sages. Paradise is a place on earth from whence four rivers originate; one of them is the Euphrates which surrounds the land of Israel. Whatever is written explicitly in the story of Creation is all true. The Scripture should not be taken out of its literal context, and people acquainted with measurements will say that the garden of Eden is just below the equator, so that the day will not be prolonged or shortened. In the ancient Greek medical books and in the book of Asaf the Jew it is said that Asclepius, a Macedonian wise man, and 40 learned magicians went through the land and past India, east towards Eden to find medicinal trees and the Tree of Life to make themselves greater than all other wise men on earth. But when they came to that place, the glint of the turning sword burned them all; not a single one of them escapedAll of this is true and well-known, even to this day, for many who traveled from this land eastwards have seen from afar the glint of the turning sword." In short, Paradise is "beyond India" (that is, in China), and therefore that country is called, to this very day, "the Communist Paradise"
We have already learned that the Heavenly hosts have no backs (but they do have wings, see below). And we also learn about the heavenly angels that they do not understand the Aramaic language! It is brought in Tractate Shabbat 12b "R' Judah said a person should never ask for his needs in Aramaic, and R' Yochanan said anyone who asks for his needs in Aramaic is not heeded by the heavenly angels, for the heavenly angels do not understand Aramaic." The Tosfot on Shabbat 12b, s.v. she'ein malachei, asked "And we wonder at this, for they even know the thoughts in men's hearts, but the Aramaic language they do not know?" But the Rosh, on the second chapter of Berachot, section two, answered the Tosfot's question "They know and recognize the thoughts in men's hearts, but they find this language improper to heed." According to the Rosh the angels do understand Aramaic, they merely find it improper. Aside from the question of what is improper in the Aramaic language (after all, there are Aramaic words in the Pentateuch and the Holy Writ) the Rosh also ignored an explicit gemara (Sotah 36a) "Don't the heavenly angels know Aramaic? Yet the Tannaim said Yochanan the High Priest heard a Heavenly Voice from the Holy of Holies saying , 'They have won -- the lads who went forth to battle to Antioch'." Since the voice the High Priest heard spoke in Aramaic, it follows that the angels not only understand Aramaic, they even speak it. So they explained, "It was Gabriel, as it is said Gabriel came and taught him seventy languages." From this it is clear that unlike the opinion of the Rosh, that the angels do understand Aramaic but find it improper, the opposite is true Aramaic is not improper (for it is spoken in the Holy of Holies) but Gabriel is the only angel who understands Aramaic, since he knows seventy languages.
One way or another, 1500 more years of deep Torah study had passed, and the Mishnah Berurah came and ruled, in Orach Chaim 1014, "An individual who asks for his needs may ask in any language he chooses aside from Aramaic. Therefore if one prays in his home he may not say any of the Yakum Purkan prayers." Indeed, the Mishnah Berurah ruled well. Gabriel may be busy and who of all the other angels would understand the Yakum Purkan?
A man must honor angels even if they don't speak Aramaic. Thus the Gemara says in Brachot 60b "When one enters the bathroom he should say 'Please, holy honored ones, servants on High, leave me until I go in and do what I will and I will come to you.' Abaye said a man should not say thus, lest they leave him. He should say, 'Watch me, watch me, help me, help me, wait for me until I go in and come out, for this is the way of man.'"
We have spoken of angels; we have not yet spoken of demons. Nachmanides wrote on Leviticus 177 "There was also created an object out of two essences -- fire and air -- which was given a body that could not be sensed by one of the senses It is a spiritual body; it can fly easily in fire and airTherefore our rabbis said in Chagiga 16a, 'Six things have been said of demons; in three they are like the heavenly angels and in three they are like men. In three they are like the heavenly angels they have wings as angels, and fly as angels do, and know the future as angels doIn three they are like men they eat and drink as men do, they reproduce as men do, and they die as men do.'"
Chazal's faith in demons was so great that they even said in Tractate Megillah 3a "Rabbi Joshua the son of Levi said a man is forbidden to greet his fellow at night lest he be a demon." Thus, too, ruled the Shulchan Aruch in Even HaEzer, paragraph 17, section 10 "If they heard a voice saying that a certain person died and they went and did not find there a man , they should allow his wife to remarry . But if they heard this voice in a field or in a ruined place, she may not be allowed to remarry based on that voice, for fear that it was a demon."
Maimonides, who rejected anthropomorphism and fought so hard against it, and who even called all the adherents of anthropomorphic views heretics and apostates -- what did he say of the anthropomorphization of angels? In "A Guide to the Perplexed," part two, chapter six, he wrote "The intent in those sayings is not what the fools believed, that He speaks or thinks or asks council and advice of othersfor the powers are all angels. But how very bad and harmful is the blindness of stupidity! Behold, were you to go and tell to one of those who think themselves the sages of Israel that an angel would enter a woman's belly and make there the fetus -- he would find it good and accept it, seeing in it a sign of G-d's greater power and His wisdom. Such a man would also believe that an angel has a body of fire which burns, that his skin is as a third of the whole world, and all this would seem possible to him in G-d's laws. But were you to tell that man that G-d put in sperm a power which creates and forms these characteristics and limbs, and this power can be described as an angel, or that the conduct of all the forms is determined by the Active Intellect, which is the angel whom the Sages described as the minister of the world -- he would always flee such notionsBut our Sages had already clarified to those who are wise that each of the powers of the body has an angel, all the more so do the other powers, which are scattered in the worldAnd they also had explained to those who understand that the power of imagination may also be called an angel, and the mind -- a cherub. This is very acceptable to those who understand and very disgusting to fools."
So, "cherub" and "angel" are just names that men of reason give to various qualities of creatures, the power of the mind, and the creative wisdom. All these are internal powers (within nature and man) and not separate entities. These words of Maimonides are wonderful and make sense to any person of reason. But even so, how does Maimonides explain the explicit words of the Talmud, such as the statement that angels do not understand Aramaic or the matter of the bathroom? When Maimonides says "those who think themselves the sages of Israel" does he mean some of Chazal and Nachmanides? Or does he mean the Tosfot, who said on Tractate Niddah 16b, "The angel appointed over pregnancies -- but over birth no angel is appointed, as it says at the start of Taanit , 'Three keys are held by the Holy One, blessed be He of life, of rains, and of the resurrection of the dead"? If angels are expressions of internal forces which act in man and in nature, what is the point of saying what the Tosfot said? And even though Maimonides said several times about himself that the gates of commentary are not sealed (and that he can explain the anthropomorphisms of G-d found in the Scriptures), but our view is as that of Ibn Ezra on Daniel 11 -- "How is it possible in a human language that a man would speak one word and mean another? One who supposes so would be considered a madman." We are forced to say what is so very clear from the words of Ra'avad's critique many of the Sages, the Tannaim, the Amoraim, and the Rishonim held anthropomorphistic views and believed that G-d and His angels, demons, Paradise, and Hell all had actual physical forms and a specified place in the world of our senses. In his fight against the anthropomorphic concepts of G-d Maimonides did not tread a well-trod path, but came out against the opinion of many of the best of Jewish sages. Maimonides's fight against those views was not easy, for the Scriptures are full of anthropomorphic descriptions of G-d and His servants, and it seems clear that the authors and readers did indeed believe in their physical nature. Maimonides himself admits that to block the opening he even distorted the text in the name of reason.
And do not think, student who seeks knowledge, that the victory of Maimonides's opinion was easy or immediate. Many years after his death the rabbis of Ashkenaz still fought his opinions, his books were banned and burned, and his view of G-d as non-corporeal was angrily dismissed. These viewpoints, which today are accepted by all (the 13 Principles of Maimonides are indeed the principles of faith to any believing Jew) were not accepted at all, even hundreds of years after his death. Note the words of the GRA (Yoreh Deah 179, subsection 13) who comes out strongly against Maimonides for denying the physical reality of demons, incantations, and witchcraft, as he wrote, "All his successors disagreed with him, for many incantations were given in the Gemara, but he followed the way of philosophy. Therefore he wrote that witchcraft and magic names and incantations and ghosts and amulets are all false, but they have already struck him over the head, for we have found many incidents in the Gemara of magical names and witcheryPhilosophy mislead him, and he used it to interpret the words of the Gemara allegorically and to deprive them of their simple meaning, G-d forbid." And what would the GRA say about Maimonides's dismissal of anthropomorphisms concerning G-d? Would he also claim that these matters stand as in their plain meaning (in the Scriptures and in Gemara) and that it was only philosophy which, G-d forbid, misled Maimonides to say that G-d has no body nor physical form? Delve deeply into this matter.
Finally, on the issue of anthropomorphism philosophy won, and thus now believes anyone who follows the Torah and the commandments. Well did the author of Chovot HaLevavot write in Shaar HaYichud, chapter four "Anything one wishes to know, when one doubts its existence, one first has to ask if it exists or not. When it has been proven to exist, one must investigate what it is and how it is and why, but about the Creator no man is allowed to ask anything aside from whether He is one." This is as the author of Kzot HaChoshen wrote in his introduction, "What can human intellect understand in the Torah of G-d?"
But it seems as though we can't do without anthropomorphizing the Heavens. After anthropomorphism was rejected by most religious people, the philosophy of Kabbalah began to spread in public. The Kabbalists were faced with a problem How could they speak of G-d, Who cannot be contemplated at all through any viewpoint or understanding? What could they say about Him? They could not go without saying anything about G-d, for then they could not write about all their discoveries and imaginations. They played a cute trick -- they said that the Creator of the world created 10 sfirot and the Kabbalists merely speak of these, not, G-d forbid, of the infinite G-d. Even when they speak of the sfirot they do not, Heaven forfend, speak of a physical presence, but only of the most secret things. As the Ben Ish Chai wrote in his responsa Rav Poalim, part one, paragraph one "Know that the most high G-d, He who inspired and created and formed and made everything, is infinite, and about Him it was said in Ptichat Eliyahu (may he be recalled for good), 'The Master of the universe is one, unique, and cannot be contemplated. He is one, most high, the most secret of secret, there is no way of contemplating Him'You should also know, that when we call the ten sfirot "sfirot" and "lights" we do not mean to consider them lights such as we see with our eyes, but because our minds are short-sighted and stuck in the materialand all the worlds and the holy sfirot above have no image or physical likeness at all, and there is none who can know how they stand and what their order isFor, after all, no human intelligence can know, understand, or contemplate them at all." Well did he write. Here you have the paradox No human intellect can know, understand, or contemplate, yet they fill entire books with those things which no mind in the world can know, understand, or contemplate We say to those Kabbalists who have some inner honesty If you do not understand what you say and cannot contemplate what you write, stop speaking of it. Why go into what is G-d's area?
Peace,
Rami
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Peace,
Note the similairty between Arnold Yasin's school and that of Maimonides!
Regarding if God can get distracted, isn't thats why he created the angels?! The angels are there to write everything and report it to the Superman above the Heavens.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace Rami,
?Regarding if God can get distracted, isn't thats why he created the angels?! The angels are there to write everything and report it to the Superman above the Heavens.?
All our actions are recorded by angles because it will be used as evidence on the Judgment day. This is The God?s plan and His plan is very simple and efficient; our fate will be determined by this evidence. The The criteria for judgment are provided in the Quran. Your distraction theory is obviously wrong.
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contridictory to what some people are saying my frined yes we are all made in the Image of God. God has a form other wise He would not be God. God said "Now let us make man in our image and likness" God was talking to His Son Jesus. and God formed Adam from the dust and put Adam to sleep and took a rib out of Adam and created a women called Eve. God is Spirit and should be Worshiped in Spirit and in Truth. Moses saw the back of God on Mount sini as God said to him "You can see the Back of Me but you cannot see My Face as no man can see My Face and live" so moses only saw the Back of God. Yes we are made in His image, we are all spirits in a flesh and when we die our bodies go to the dust where it came from and our spirits will either to to hell or Heaven depending on if your living by the Words of Jesus who died a horrible death on a cross for all man kind. Jesus said "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" God is still on the Throne surrounded by angels Worshiping Him. Hallelujah. God bless you my friend. welcome welcome welcome welcome welcome welcome welcome sun sun sun sun sun sun ;D
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Peace Leanna,
You probably missed my post regarding this issue of being in G-d's "image" and "likeness", so I'll repost it...
In order to understand that concept, you have to understand what the Torah means when it says that man was created in the "image" of G-d... Here's a commentary on Torah that I found pretty interesting in this respect
In the Image of God
The Bible states that humanity was created in the image of God, but what does it mean to be created in the image of God?
Clearly, we are not created in the physical image of God, because Judaism steadfastly maintains that God is incorporeal and has no physical appearance. Maimonides points out that the Hebrew words translated as "image" and "likeness" in Genesis 1,27 do not refer to the physical form of a thing. The word for "image" in Genesis 1,27 is "tzelem", which refers to the nature or essence of a thing, as in Psalms 73,20, "you will despise their image (tzel'mam)". You despise a person's nature and not a person's physical appearance. The word for physical form, Maimonides explains, is "to'ar", as in Genesis 39,6, "and Joseph was beautiful of form (to'ar) and fair to look upon". Similarly, the word used for "likeness" is "demut", which is used to indicate a simile, not identity of form. For example, "He is like (dimyono) a lion" in Psalms 17,12 refers not to similar appearance, but to similar nature.
What is it in our nature that is God-like? Rashi explains that we are like God in that we have the ability to understand and discern. Maimonides elaborates that by using our intellect, we are able to perceive things without the use of our physical senses, an ability that makes us like God, who perceives without having physical senses.
That's taken from the Mishne Torah commentary, and even though I disagree with some of their concepts (mostly based on the Talmud's Gemarra), this one seems to be on point... G-d doesn't have a physical body or senses like we do, yet He can discern all things. We are in His image because we can also discern things without using our physical senses, a major factor that separates us from animals.
This is taken directly from the doctrines of Judaism, and since Christianity has "borrowed" so many of their concepts from Judaism, I figured this would be the best explanation based on the Torah and Talmud...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Hi Alen some christians have diffenet intepretations of the bible I agree with that. But that is where dercentment comes in. before I was a christian or even after there were things in the bible I did not understand. but the more you grow in the Lord, the Lord helps you grow from a baby chrisitan to a mature one who is gone from milk to meat, spiritualy of course. It takes time. The Holy Spirit is the one who shows you the truth. we cannot do it ourselfs. I love how we are made in God's immage God has a form like I said. Many Jewish people have probablly taken and added to books too. It is sad. but I havn't. I will stick with the bible, not what other peoples interpretations are cause they could be way off.