According to the quran, what is the lowest heaven?

Arnold

After doing your mystics, how did it "suddenly" become a completely different book? Did it still contain the same errors? How did it almost make you giggle?

Oh, that one. Yes, it still contained errors. So what? It's a recounting of events. The errors or discrepancies don't affect the meaning as far as I'm concerned. Remember, as I keep saying, it's not the Gospel of Jesus, it's the Gospel according to (fill in the apostle's name). There is nothing that is being hidden about that fact. Not one single Christian will tell you that Jesus wrote the Gospels, or if they do, they are wrong. The titles clearly say it all right in front of you. According to Mark, or Luke, etc etc....meaning their recall and inspiration from God. We learn about Jesus not by being told specifically what to think about him, but by what occurs and what he said in the stories, or recountings. Who cares if there is a contradiction about the fig tree, That would probably happen with two different people's recall. But it was supposed to represent a larger deeper meaning anyway, so the exact details really aren't very important. If one is seeing every little detail of the New Testament, then one is not grasping the deeper meaning the New Testament.

unknownuser

If one is seeing every little detail of the New Testament, then one is not grasping the deeper meaning the New Testament.

Haha, got to love the double standards.

As for your commentary on those verses, the book is the same for all things. It's a reference to the scripture sent to all messengers.

Peaceful_Mind

Show me one.

The Billions of people who embraced, the philosophers and scientists etc... Even Christian fanatics ( Pope of the Coptic Church) admit to this.

Peaceful_Mind

Oh, that one. Yes, it still contained errors. So what? It's a recounting of events. The errors or discrepancies don't affect the meaning as far as I'm concerned. Remember

So it is not authentic. I cannot have a book that has clear errors in it for inspiration. Christianity is theologically vacuous..

Remember, as I keep saying, it's not the Gospel of Jesus, it's the Gospel according to (fill in the apostle's name). There is nothing that is being hidden about that fact. Not one single Christian will tell you that Jesus wrote the Gospels, or if they do, they are wrong. The titles clearly say it all right in front of you. According to Mark, or Luke, etc etc....meaning their recall and inspiration from God.

All Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God, to contain no errors etc... You are one of the extremely few Christians who admit to errors in it. I truly applaud you for this. The question is, why do not you follow any other book that has no errors in it?

We learn about Jesus not by being told specifically what to think about him, but by what occurs and what he said in the stories, or recountings. Who cares if there is a contradiction about the fig tree, That would probably happen with two different people's recall

See above. Also, I heard some very nasty things about Jesus in Bible, but I won't utter them because I respect and love him.

But it was supposed to represent a larger deeper meaning anyway, so the exact details really aren't very important.

See above.

If one is seeing every little detail of the New Testament, then one is not grasping the deeper meaning the New Testament.

Subjective. Anyone can claim so and so about thier holy book.

Navid

It doesn't offend me, what I said apparently flew completely over your head, based on the direction of your response. No biggie.

As I said, I understood, you simply did not answer the question in regards to the Bible.

Heh, i show you things. You don't like them? Fine. Doesn't bother me at all. I show things, and generally, people here are the ones who get upset, not me. So why would you try to make me out as being bothered in anyway? I meant what I said. The Quran, from a spiritual perspective, is rather childish. For example, yes, I know it's supposed to be a warning, but it can't even seem to go more than 20 or 30 verses without mentioning punishment and reward. and if they reject guidance.....and if they accept guidance.....over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I remember thinking, geez, would you shut up already? I heard you the first time. ;D Seems like in many suras, he might run out of real points to make, so he always uses the threats and rewards, and long descriptions of them as a filler of sorts to fill out the sura

There's a difference between objectively presenting your arguments and childishly making subjective points, as in your quote above. You start out threads not showing a single verse and just rant for a paragraph or two. This is why I say it seems to genuinely bother you. It seems you get very emotional sometimes, but I may be wrong

"Tonight's forecast is "dark", with increasing patches of light towards morning. It's a miracle !!!! Surely this is from God !!!!! You guys crack me up"

"Dear psycho, wasn't something supposed to happen before 911? And now, that this has not happened, everybody is supposed to forget that you are dead wrong, while you continually shift the story to new possibilities. and, as you are shown wrong each time, everybody is supposed to forget that and entertain your new, better, replacement idea.

When are you going to get the hint psychopath? You are mentally unstable. You cannot reason clearly, as evidenced by the fact that you ignore your errors and never learn. and yet, everybody has to put up with your stupid ideas no matter how often they are wrong. How much patience do you, personally, expect people to give you? What is the expectation in your mind? what are you thinking?"

You seem to be a generally overly sensitive person and I honestly think you're bothered knowing that people believe in the quran. It satisfies you when you say "I could blow the Quran away"

Now, while it mentions some good social rules (and maybe some not so good ones, depending on who you talk to), these rules are not what I would qualify as wisdom. They are common sense thinking from someone who seemed to want to create a social system of fairness. But I can't find anything deep or esoteric in the Quran. What verses of the Quran would you consider to be wisdom? For the most part, the Quran is nothing but a constant repeat of the same basic ideas that are merely repeated in different but similar ways. Those ideas are.

There is only one God, and Muhammad is his last and most prominent messenger
If you reject guidance, you'll drink molten lava. And you will cry out to the people that you see in paradise for a drink, and they will tell you that they are not allowed to help you. And your face will be burned, and then healed so that it can be re-burned. And Allah will rebuild you so that he can subject you to the torture of hell.
If you accept guidance, you will be in paradise with rivers of wine that doesn't make you hung over, and gardens and couches, and (ahem) companions who nether man nor jinn have (ahem) touched, and you will wear green silk and silver bracelets, and apparently, you will see those in hell who's fate was different than your's and you will rejoice that you did not make the same mistakes. And you will feel vindicated and justified (your breast healed)
Christians worship 3 Gods, the father the mother and the son. They are wrong and are going to hell for associating partners with Allah. And they have said a monstrous charge by claiming God had sex with Mary from behind in the missionary position, and that God has taken a human wife and son.
Jesus was not crucified, God only made it look that way to deceive the Jews, after he had already saved Jesus and lifted him up. So the issue between Christians and Jews is settled, and both should be Muslims.
Jews have always been rejectors and will surely go to hell as well.
Both the Christians and Jews have purposefully corrupted their scriptures and the Quran is the only thing that is valid.

Fight the unbelievers, and spread the religion for Allah's sake until Allah's law rules all.

Social recommendations and laws, including the infamous inheritance laws.
Ideas of how Allah created everything and how things operate.

I'd say that's most of it right there. That's essentially the message of the Quran

All subjectivity. Sorry.

Jack

As I said, I understood, you simply did not answer the question in regards to the Bible.

There's a difference between objectively presenting your arguments and childishly making subjective points, as in your quote above. You start out threads not showing a single verse and just rant for a paragraph or two. This is why I say it seems to genuinely bother you. It seems you get very emotional sometimes, but I may be wrong

"Tonight's forecast is "dark", with increasing patches of light towards morning. It's a miracle !!!! Surely this is from God !!!!! You guys crack me up"

"Dear psycho, wasn't something supposed to happen before 911? And now, that this has not happened, everybody is supposed to forget that you are dead wrong, while you continually shift the story to new possibilities. and, as you are shown wrong each time, everybody is supposed to forget that and entertain your new, better, replacement idea.

When are you going to get the hint psychopath? You are mentally unstable. You cannot reason clearly, as evidenced by the fact that you ignore your errors and never learn. and yet, everybody has to put up with your stupid ideas no matter how often they are wrong. How much patience do you, personally, expect people to give you? What is the expectation in your mind? what are you thinking?"

You seem to be a generally overly sensitive person and I honestly think you're bothered knowing that people believe in the quran. It satisfies you when you say "I could blow the Quran away"

All subjectivity. Sorry.

rotfl

http//media3.guzer.com/pictures/funny_owned_boy.jpg

unknownuser

Speaking of fascists, Arnold has been silenced (suspended) because while you are allowed to fling insults about me being childish, I am not allowed to fling insuslts in return. So I guess fascism and censorship is good as long as it's on your side. So I can't respond to this or else I'll be permanently banned, but I did notice the fake laughter. Do honestly think anybody should believe you are really rolling on the floor in laughter? ;D I doubt it. Nice act. People aren't that stupid. Wake up.

Meteora

I read that there is the High Heaven, Lower Heaven, Purgatory (which eventually leads to the lower heaven), and Hell. Is this true?

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

2130 Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

Edip-Layth - End Note 5 (2130)
The creation of the universe from a singularity about 13.7 billion years ago with a Big Bang has been supported by many scientific observations and calculations since the beginning of the early 20th century. The Quran stated this fact unequivocally 14 centuries before. Furthermore, the Quran supports the closed model of the universe (5147). We are also informed that the early stage of the universe was gas (4111). The vitality of water for carbon-based biological life is evident. See 482.

Shabbir Ahmed - End Note 13 (2130)
Here is a clear allusion to the Big Bang theory. Numerous celestial bodies came into being and started swimming along in their orbits. 2133, 2445, 3640, 7930

Rashad Khalifa - End Note 3 (2130)
The Big Bang Theory is now supported by the Creator's infalliblemathematical code (Appendix 1). Thus, it is nolonger a theory; itis a law, a proven fact.

Mazhar

There was no such thing which the words "Bing Bang" convey. The Universe will certainly end with a BING BANG which will be heard soon.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/07.%20Book-7%20Aafaq%20ki%20Haqeeqat,%20Quran%20in%2021st%20century/07.%20Aafaq%20ki%20haqeeqat,%20Quran%20in%2021st%20century.htm

Meteora

I read that there is the High Heaven, Lower Heaven, Purgatory (which eventually leads to the lower heaven), and Hell. Is this true?

Meteora

;D > ??? P -[ -X -\ -* '( yuck > O0 sun welcome fftopic bravo rotfl yay brickwall group confused elektro ignore whatever yeah jedi angel peace voodoo hypno muscle handshake pr ! nope & hmm wow yes eat tempt hail giveup laugh police

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

D ;D >( ( ??? P -[ -X -\ -* '( yuck >D O0 sun welcome fftopic bravo rotfl yay brickwall group confused elektro ignore whatever yeah jedi angel peace voodoo hypno muscle handshake pr ! nope & hmm wow yes eat tempt hail giveup laugh police

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

There was no such thing which the words "Bing Bang" convey. The Universe will certainly end with a BING BANG which will be heard soon.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/07.%20Book-7%20Aafaq%20ki%20Haqeeqat,%20Quran%20in%2021st%20century/07.%20Aafaq%20ki%20haqeeqat,%20Quran%20in%2021st%20century.htm

7930 The land after that, He made it like an egg.

Edip-Layth - End Note 3 (7930)
The Arabic word dahaha comes from root dahy, which means egg. The earth, with its physical shape and geologic layers resembles an egg. Though the roundness of the earth was known by philosophers before the revelation of the Quran, ordinary people did not find it a reasonable or common-sense fact. Therefore, almost all the commentators of the Quran tried to interpret the word so that they could save their flat earth from being curved. They reasoned that the verse must be an allegorical description, that God must have meant the nest or the place of the egg from the word egg. So, they translated this verse as follows "and after that He spread the earth"! Abd al-Aziz bin Baz was the chief cleric of Saudi Arabia, the head of the Council of Senior Religious Scholars for three decades. He had a great impact on regressive and oppressive laws in Saudi Arabia, including the ban on women's driving. A book authored by Bin Baz was published in 1975 carried the following title "Scientific and Narrative Evidence for that the Earth is Fixed, the Sun is Moving and it is Possible to Go to the Planets." The book was not published by any publishing house; it was published by none other than the Islamic University of Medina. In that book, Bin Baz complains about a new heresy; he is saddened to see, well more accurately, hear, people talking about the motion of the earth and he wants to put a stop to that heresy. In page 23, Bin Baz after listing some hadiths, issues a fatwa, asserting that those who believe that the earth is rotating are kafirs (disbelievers), and if they were Muslims before, they became apostates. The Saudi Sunni leader does not stop there and explains the ramification of the fatwa any Muslim believing in the rotation of the earth loses his or her right to life and property; they should be killed! This same cleric was the head of an international conference of Sunni scholars representing 38 countries discussing the Salman Rushdi affair. Then, Saudi Arabia was competing with Iran regarding leadership in the Islamic world and this was the hot issue. The conference issued a unanimous fatwa on March 19, 1989, condemning Rushdi and Rashad Khalifa, as apostates. The Western world by then knew Rushdi, but not many westerners were familiar with the second name in the fatwa. Dr. Rashad Khalifa, the late leader of the modern reformist movement and the discoverer of the mathematical code of the Quran, in less than a year after this fatwa, would be assassinated by a terrorist group affiliated with the Saudi terrorist Osama bin Laden on January 31, 1990, in his mosque in Tucson, Arizona. Bin Baz, in his book, quoted some verses and many hadith to support his position that the earth is fixed. After his expressing his religious verdict of the death penalty for the apostates who believe in a moving earth, he included the following reasoning as his scientific evidence "If the world was rotating as they assert, countries, mountains, trees, rivers, seas, nothing would be stable; humans would see the countries in the west in the east, the ones in the east in the west. The position of the qibla would change continuously. In sum, as you see, this claim is false in many respects. But, I do not wish to prolong my words." Towards the end of the 20th century, a "university" of a Sunni country publishes such nonsense authored by the highest-ranking religious leader of that country! Considering the Ottoman chief clerics banned the import and use of the printing machine for about 300 years, it becomes clear why the so-called Muslim countries are so lagging behind in civilization, socially, politically, and in science and technology. For a comparative discussion of this verse, see the Sample Comparisons section in the Introduction. The Bible, because of the tampering of many human hands, contains questionable information about the shape of earth Isaiah 1112; Matthew 48; Revelation 71. See 482; 681 and 395.

2130 Did those who reject not see that the heavens and the earth were one mass and We tore them apart? That We made from the water everything that lives. Will they not acknowledge? (QRT)

2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe? (Rashad Khalifa)

2130 Are the unbelievers not aware (after this proclamation) that the heavens and earth used to be one solid mass and We exploded them out? And that out of water We made every living thing? Will they not, then, acknowledge the truth? (Shabbir Ahmed)

Edip-Layth - End Note 5 (2130)
The creation of the universe from a singularity about 13.7 billion years ago with a Big Bang has been supported by many scientific observations and calculations since the beginning of the early 20th century. The Quran stated this fact unequivocally 14 centuries before. Furthermore, the Quran supports the closed model of the universe (5147). We are also informed that the early stage of the universe was gas (4111). The vitality of water for carbon-based biological life is evident. See 482.

Shabbir Ahmed - End Note 13 (2130)
Here is a clear allusion to the Big Bang theory. Numerous celestial bodies came into being and started swimming along in their orbits. 2133, 2445, 3640, 7930

2133 He is the One who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.

Edip-Layth - End Note 7 (2133)
This verse clearly informs us that all (kul) celestial bodies rotate in an orbit. Interestingly, the earth's rotation around its axis is also implied by the expression "night and day." See 2788; 3640; 395; 681; 7930.

Meteora

) D ;D >( ( o ??? ) P -[ -X -\ -* '( yuck >D O0 sun welcome offtopic bravo rotfl yay brickwall group confused elektro ignore whatever yeah jedi angel peace voodoo hypno muscle handshake pr ! nope & hmm wow yes eat tempt hail giveup laugh police

yay

smmirza

Peace,
Yusuf Ali "Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. " 65.12

The seven "Firmaments" refer to the seven distinct layers above the Earth in my current understanding. These are

Troposphere The air that we breath.
Ozone Layer Although considered a part of stratosphere, it has a different chemical and physical structure than the stratosphere.
Stratosphere Temperature increases with height
Mesosphere Temperature decreases with height
Thermosphere Temperature again increases with height
Exosphere Contains free moving particles.
(I have not mentioned the ionosphere because it overlaps the thermosphere and the exosphere)
All space besides the layers already defined.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere

One of the verses that talks about the heaven(layer) is 37.6
Yusuf Ali We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (37.6)
However, the Arabic is Assama Ud-Duniya (Assama Sky/Heaven, DuniyaEarth) while Yusuf Ali wrongly translates it to lower heaven. This is probably the uppermost layer that extends after the Exosphere and would contain everything in the universe. The above is a geocentric definition but fits with the Quranic information since we are the audience.

Similar number for the earth

0- 40 Crust
40- 400 Upper mantle
400- 650 Transition region
650-2700 Lower mantle
2700-2890 D'' layer
2890-5150 Outer core
5150-6378 Inner core

http//library.thinkquest.org/28327/html/universe/solar_system/planets/earth/interior/layers_of_earth.html

The more I read the Quran the more I am in awe of our Creater, the Rahman!

unknownuser

7930 The land after that, He made it like an egg.

Edip-Layth - End Note 3 (7930)
The Arabic word dahaha comes from root dahy, which means egg. The earth, with its physical shape and geologic layers resembles an egg. Though the roundness of the earth was known by philosophers before the revelation of the Quran, ordinary people did not find it a reasonable or common-sense fact.

Instead of supporting the above view a rant on clerics and heretics is posted with an attempt to fit round earth similar to Christians twisting the word encompasses in Isaiah.

It is He who sits above the circle of the earth
http//bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htm

If taken literally means sits on the earth like on a beach ball; equally absurd as egg shaped.

7930 And the earth after that He stretched/spread it
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=79&vid=30

Above is either allegoric or perhaps the earth is stretching like a balloon as the rest of the universe...

Expanding Earth
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ_B60gK9Is

Peace,
Yusuf Ali "Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. " 65.12

The seven "Firmaments" refer to the seven distinct layers above the Earth in my current understanding. These are

Troposphere The air that we breath.
Ozone Layer Although considered a part of stratosphere, it has a different chemical and physical structure than the stratosphere.
Stratosphere Temperature increases with height
Mesosphere Temperature decreases with height
Thermosphere Temperature again increases with height
Exosphere Contains free moving particles.
(I have not mentioned the ionosphere because it overlaps the thermosphere and the exosphere)
All space besides the layers already defined.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere

One of the verses that talks about the heaven(layer) is 37.6
Yusuf Ali We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (37.6)
However, the Arabic is Assama Ud-Duniya (Assama Sky/Heaven, DuniyaEarth) while Yusuf Ali wrongly translates it to lower heaven. This is probably the uppermost layer that extends after the Exosphere and would contain everything in the universe. The above is a geocentric definition but fits with the Quranic information since we are the audience.

Peace,

According to some theories the earth once did not have an atmosphere thus it's best to cross-check all verses pertaining to the matter and keep in mind sky/space is synonymous with everything in the universe/s and seven can be allegoric for numerous...

Fussilat (Explained in Detail)
4112

233
2107
2116
2117
2164
2255
2284
329
383
3109
3129
3133
3180
3189
3190
3191
4126
4131
4132
4170
4171
517
518
540
597
5120
61
63
612
614
673
675
679
6101
754
7158
7185
7187
936
9116
103
106
1018
1055
1066
1068
10101
117
11107
11108
11123
12101
12105
132
1315
1316
142
1410
1419
1432
1448
1585
163
1649
1652
1673
1677
1744
1755
1799
17102
1814
1826
1851
1965
1990
1993
204
206
2119
2130
2156
2218
2264
2371
2386
2435
2441
2442
2464
252
256
2559
2624
2725
2760
2765

Meteora

...so there isn't two heavens in the next life? '(