Is there anyone still ALIVE after THOUSANDS of years? Does the Quran support it?
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Salaamun Alaykum
I was talking to some friends about the story of the companion of Musa... I was telling them that it is very unlikely that he is still alike till now after literally thousands of years... I gave them this verse as my proof for opinion..
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/21/21_34.gif
2134 (Y. Ali) We granted not to any man before thee permanent life (here) if then thou shouldst die, would they live permanently?But as the discussion went on, this is the final reply I got
The verse says that no one before Rasoolullah was given immortality and it says that if Rasoolullah can die, why won't others? After all, Rasoolullah is the most beloved of Allah so why would he favour others with immortality over him?
So, anyone who was born before Rasoolullah will die and is not immortal. It is pretty simple to understand and grasp this. After all, there were some people who were born before Rasoolullah but died after Rasoolullah experienced death, including some sahaba . Does that mean they were immortal? Of course not, because they died. Does this mean that others whose lifespan has been extended by Allah are immortal? Of course not; it simply means that Allah has ordained a time of their death that has not arrived yet and continue to survive. An example would be 'Isa , as I said before. He was born before the Prophet , is still alive, and will return and die a natural death, showing that he isn't immortal.
This reply does have sense in it... let us forget the issue about Isa... Do we have other verses that can be used to support the basis of such long lives.. they says Isa,Dajjal,Gog and Magog and Al-Khidr are still alive... though, they are not immortal but their appointed time of natural death has not come yet and is due in the future.
Would like to get your responses.
Wassalaam
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Peace,
The companion of Moses can still be alive, on one condition that he died at one point in his life.
If you read the story of the man who was made to die for 100 years (I believe it is in sura/chapter 2), you will notice that when God resurected him, he told him that he would remain a sign to mankind. It is very likely that this man is the same person that Moses was searching for and that he is very much still alive.
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Peace,
Even though it's plausible that someone could be alive for a long period of time, maybe even a hundred (or a few hundred) years, I think it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY that somebody would remain alive for thousands of years. The scripture doesn't even suggest or imply that this person (i.e. "Al Khidr" would still be alive, and neither does the passage regarding the person mentioned as being asleep/dead for 100 years. And the scripture also never implies that these two are the same person... Personally, I think that there is no human person alive who has been alive since the time of Abraham. If there was such a person, the other prophets would've likely mentioned him, especially if this person passed through the generations of Moses, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekial, Zechariah, Jesus, and others. Yet, none of them ever mentioned anyone being alive for this long, and none of the prophets ever sought out to meet him. If this was really the case, this person's story would've been included within the Jewish history or fables, as is the story of the man who was dead for 100 years and was raised up. But there's no mention of it anywhere...
If there does exist a being who is actually thousands of years old, this person is NOT a human...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Salaamun Alaykum and thanks for the input...
I have already outlined in the first post that I do not care about Al-Khidr etc being still alive and I am well aware it is from traditionalists and folk tales.. What I want to investigate into is, does the Quran support such a long life theory? We know that Nuh remained with his people 950 years and this seems to be an exceptionally long lifespace.
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/29/29_14.gif
2914 (Y. Ali) We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty but the Deluge overwhelmed them while they (persisted in) sin.So what do you think about such LONG LIVES from quranic perspective... Definitely talking about anyone being alive that long (eg khidr) without any quranic support will be conjecture.
Wassalaam
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Salaamun Alaykum and thanks for the input...
I have already outlined in the first post that I do not care about Al-Khidr etc being still alive and I am well aware it is from traditionalists and folk tales.. What I want to investigate into is, does the Quran support such a long life theory? We know that Nuh remained with his people 950 years and this seems to be an exceptionally long lifespace.
So what do you think about such LONG LIVES from quranic perspective... Definitely talking about anyone being alive that long (eg khidr) without any quranic support will be conjecture.
Wassalaam
The Companions of the Cave, Cave (Al Kahf)
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Peace WayFinder,
I have already outlined in the first post that I do not care about Al-Khidr etc being still alive and I am well aware it is from traditionalists and folk tales.. What I want to investigate into is, does the Quran support such a long life theory? We know that Nuh remained with his people 950 years and this seems to be an exceptionally long lifespace.
So what do you think about such LONG LIVES from quranic perspective... Definitely talking about anyone being alive that long (eg khidr) without any quranic support will be conjecture.
From this perspective, the Qur'aan is in harmony with the Torah. The Torah also mentions certain prophets living for hundreds of years... But based on that scripture, no man ever reached the age of 1000; all of them died before they saw this age. So, even if there were some people who lived for hundreds of years, there's no way the person would still be alive after THOUSANDS of years, not since the time of Moses until now. Long lives are one thing, but immortality is something completely different. Living for thousands of years constitutes immortality, which no man has attained.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace WayFinder,
From this perspective, the Qur'aan is in harmony with the Torah. The Torah also mentions certain prophets living for hundreds of years... But based on that scripture, no man ever reached the age of 1000; all of them died before they saw this age. So, even if there were some people who lived for hundreds of years, there's no way the person would still be alive after THOUSANDS of years, not since the time of Moses until now. Long lives are one thing, but immortality is something completely different. Living for thousands of years constitutes immortality, which no man has attained.
Peace,
Ahmad
Salaamun Alaykum Bilal and thanks for the input.
I have highlighted a RED part in your response.. I do not think this can be added to the definition of IMMORTALITY... Immortality has straight relation to DEATH whereas a LONG life has no relation with immortality as death is waiting ahead...
As for the part on the age of 1000 years... I find this verse which talks about it.
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/2/2_96.gif
296 Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do.Do you think this verse adds some information to our subject?
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If he is living and is in senses then he is required to physically follow the Grand Qur'aan and live like a Muslim. A Muslim is one whose acts are demonstrative; visible to the eyes of others. Since that knowlegable person is nowhere seen as Muslim, he is dead long ago. May Allah be kind to him. Why people do not get fascination in presuming Luqman as living somewhere since he was mentioned by name while the other person was not even mentioned by name and then waste time debating about it?. The name given to him by people is strictly conjecture and fascination since the people who named him even did not have the elementary knowledge rather ABC of the history of Egypt. They were just gossip mongers who gave this man a name.
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If he is living and is in senses then he is required to physically follow the Grand Qur'aan and live like a Muslim. A Muslim is one whose acts are demonstrative; visible to the eyes of others. Since that knowlegable person is nowhere seen as Muslim, he is dead long ago. May Allah be kind to him. Why people do not get fascination in presuming Luqman as living somewhere since he was mentioned by name while the other person was not even mentioned by name and then waste time debating about it?. The name given to him by people is strictly conjecture and fascination since the people who named him even did not have the elementary knowledge rather ABC of the history of Egypt. They were just gossip mongers who gave this man a name.
Brother
You misunderstood the topic of this thread... This thread is not about Al-khidr or anyone in particular... It is about the Quranic perspective of a long lifespan... It is useless to debate on khidr or anyone else... Since these claims have no support from the Quran
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Yes, dear I know the main issue of the thread. That man is quite referred many times.
Allah has not liked the desire of each and every Jew for living a 1000 years life. The life span of Noah alahissalam is reflected by the digit 1000 with minus 50 years, thereby totalling 950; less than thousand years. The other long life span given was to the young men/boys who escaped to a cave and remained in a state of coma. Qur'aan gives a general statement in 602 that each one has a determined living span after which he has to die/taste the death.
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2134 (Y. Ali) We granted not to any man before thee permanent life (here) if then thou shouldst die, would they live permanently?
If you die, would they stay/live for indefinite period?
None lives for indefinite period except the one murdered in the cause of Allah. And we know definitely the existing life span of humanity in various parts of the world. Both knowledgable person and Easa alahissalm were not murdered in the cause of Allah therefore they are not living, both died their natural death long ago.
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Wa Alaykum Salaam WayFinder,
I have highlighted a RED part in your response.. I do not think this can be added to the definition of IMMORTALITY... Immortality has straight relation to DEATH whereas a LONG life has no relation with immortality as death is waiting ahead...
As for the part on the age of 1000 years... I find this verse which talks about it.
Do you think this verse adds some information to our subject?
Perhaps you are correct concerning the death versus long life issue. However, I think you pointed out a great Qur'aanic passage, and it could certainly add a thought into this discussion... It mentions here that those people (the rejectors) long for a life of 1000 years, but this will not bring them any closer to Allah or save them from judgement. So, maybe it's an indirect implication that the human lifespan cannot exceed 1000 years. Just a thought. What do you think about it?
Peace,
Ahmad
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I have already outlined in the first post that I do not care about Al-Khidr etc being still alive and I am well aware it is from traditionalists and folk tales.. What I want to investigate into is, does the Quran support such a long life theory? We know that Nuh remained with his people 950 years and this seems to be an exceptionally long lifespace.
Ahhh, I understand your point now.
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Don't forget, the rotation of the Earth slows each year making our years longer. The years in the old testament (Adam etc) would be so much shorter making their lifespan seem so much longer.
I've heard this theory before too, and it could be possible, depending on exactly how much the earth's rotation slows down and how much is has slowed down since the time of Noah...
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The quran equates sleep with death in 660 so perhaps the man mentioned in 2259 didn't really die. Perhaps he just went into a deep sleep like the sleepers of Ephesus. Furthermore, if the man had been asleep or dead for a hundred years, how come his food and drink didn't change at all? And why did his donkey stick around his dead or sleeping body and die? I think there's more to 2259 than meets the eye. Perhaps it's not describing something supernatural.
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The quran equates sleep with death in 660 so perhaps the man mentioned in 2259 didn't really die. Perhaps he just went into a deep sleep like the sleepers of Ephesus. Furthermore, if the man had been asleep or dead for a hundred years, how come his food and drink didn't change at all? And why did his donkey stick around his dead or sleeping body and die? I think there's more to 2259 than meets the eye. Perhaps it's not describing something supernatural.
Grand Qur'aan does not equate death with sleep.
In 2259 it is specifically told that the man died.
The information about eatables reflects that the same can be stored and saved from aging. Today we can save eatables for certain periods.
He must have tied the donkey before taking sleep. He was a mindful person.
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I do not think that Noah lived 950 years, otherwise, his people would have believed in his message, thinking that he was an extraordinary creature or an angel..
22.5and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knoweth naught.
God did not say Noah was an exception to this rule and was able to preach and retain his knowledge after this age
And Noah had sons, do we understand that he had them at the age of ninty?
1172She said Oh woe is me! Shall I bear a child when I am an old woman, and this my husband is an old man? Lo! this is a strange thing!
1173They said Wonderest thou at the commandment of Allah? The mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, O people of the house! Lo! He is Owner of Praise, Owner of Glory!
Strange enough, the angels did not tell her about Noah, nor did she have knowledge of his giving birth in his ninties.
I think "thousand" just means "too long", just like in verse 296
And thou wilt find them greediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to be allowed to live a thousand years. And to live (a thousand years) would be no means remove him from the doom. Allah is Seer of what they do.
As for the examples of the youth in chapter 18, or the man who died for 100 years, they were not "alive", and we cannot say they lived that long.
Noah, in my opinion, lived 50 years only, though his message stayed too long after him.
