Refuting the 2 Salaat Theory
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Peace,
2458 seems to support as well this idea. Salat al isha is the salat you do just before going to sleep (when removing clothes).
Salat at sun down is not salat al isha.
Fajr
Sundown prayer
and a night prayer (salat al isha)3ishaa' is a period that starts with the beginning of darkness through the night and ends with it
al-Qaamuus al - Muheet
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translation and the 3ishaa' is the beginning of darkness, or from the evening till complete blackness, or from sun set until the beginning of dawn.
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Peace herbman,
so what is your understanding of this
-Now await in patience the command of thy Lord for verily thou art in our eyes and celebrate the praises of thy Lord the while thou standest forth.
-And for part of the night also praise thou Him and at the retreat of the stars!If the god had meant salaat here he would have used the word salaat. These signs mention PRAISE not SALAAT. Whilst salaat includes praise of the god, it is not true the other way around. In other words all salaat includes praise, but all praise does not include salaat. One can praise the god while outside salaat too and this praise outside salaat is what is being referred to in these signs. We cannot attribute lies to the god and say he means salaat when actually he says praise.
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Peace progressive,
Bring the undisputed ORIGINAL manuscript of the torah saying "Daniel knelt and prayed three times a day".
Woow... I just went through this thread again after the all this time. Guess what TS11, I have NEVER SAID THAT IT IS FROM THE TORAH! BTW, it is insane of you to want me to bring "the original Torah" and you know it. Besides, how could you prove that the current one is fake? (all rhetorical - dont want to have another useless discussion with you).
Peace
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During my studying of GMAT exams we took some courses in logical reasoning where they taught us about false hidden assumptions. It has benefited me a lot in understanding the Quran. Just because the Quran says after fajr prayers and isha prayers does not mean it can not be any other time. Thats a hidden assumption thats not in the text. Its exactly like the polygamy verse where it says 2 or 3 or 4. It never said it can't be more than four. It never said it has to be 2 or 3 or 4 either. When the Quran says do not worship other gods, thats NOT a false hidden assumption because its explicit about it. Also when it says do not approach the salat intoxicated, that not based on a hidden assumption.So the verse about salat fajr and isha are not relevant. What relevant is the verses that says perform your salat so and so and so(two ends of the day). But here it never said thats the only way either. It seems not to make a difference but a careful reading of the Quran shows it does make a difference.
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242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system/law if you acknowledge God and the Last Day. Let a group of the acknowledgers witness their punishment.
It makes clear that this is the punishment/law laid down by God. If we acknowledge God and the Last Day, we will carry it out and not let any pity for the adulterer/adultress prevent us from carrying out the punishment.
Thats not true since the religion of God could be talking about adultery(which is consistent with all the prophets) and not the punishment, which is not consistent with all the prophets and is not even included in the Gospel and in fact the Quran varies in terms of sexual misconduct. Once again hidden assumptions.
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Thats not true since the religion of God could be talking about adultery(which is consistent with all the prophets) and not the punishment, which is not consistent with all the prophets and is not even included in the Gospel and in fact the Quran varies in terms of sexual misconduct. Once again hidden assumptions.
In the New Testament, Jesus mentions adultery as the only reason for divorce, he doesn't mention any other punishment.
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I like the way the Biblical prophets turn a blind eye on the Torah. Could this be an indicator that it is a forgery afterall ?
It don't matter because even in the Torah many communal laws were introduced during the reign of many other prophets that did not exist at the time of the previous prophets. God does not need humans to punish for sins. Human need these punishment to organize their societies.
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It don't matter because even in the Torah many communal laws were introduced during the reign of many other prophets that did not exist at the time of the previous prophets. God does not need humans to punish for sins. Human need these punishment to organize their societies.
Without laws and punishments there would be no society. But punishments should not be inhuman.
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Without laws and punishments there would be no society. But punishments should not be inhuman.
If there was a perfect society, there would be no need for laws/punishments! but sadly, this wouldn't happen
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My theory about Shar'ia the law, is that it works. Compared to the west we have a high crime rate but in the east the crime is low. That's because the laws over there are down right scary and makes me not want to move over to Egypt and Saudi Arabia. I would like to but I am really attached to my body parts ! The biggest problem is that there is no foundation in the Shar'ia based from the Qur'an. I take it that the Shar'ia is derived mostly from the hadith literature ? When I read the Qur'an I find that Allah is most often forgiving. People are given a chance to admit there wrong doing. It seems Qur'anic, natural, fair, and what I visualize from reading the Qur'an in what muslims in those days practiced. Why the change after prophet Muhammad's death ? ???
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In regards to the 2 Salaat theory. When I look up prayer in the index in the back of the Qur'an ( I use Yusuf Ali edition - any thoughts ? ) and read the passages in regards to prayer I see in general the thought and words coming from the Qur'an is two. In the morning and the evening, except where it mentions Friday prayer ( community prayer ) I would take that as of Fridays there are three prayers. Other then this there in mention of praising Allah three times during the day, in the morning, the afternoon, and the evening. Muhammad prayed to Allah as much as he wanted to. Should we be an example and set for ourselves to prayer as much as we can ? No. Why ? Because the prophet Muhammad doesn't want us to be overburden. He qualifies additional prayers as extra. I see that it is simple when it comes to how many times we would pray in a day. Twice a day but on Fridays it would be three prayers a day due to the community prayer at the Masjid and when one has time extra prayers wether they are Salaat or Dua prayers, we are making time for Allah which is most important. It doesn't hurt if we pray three times a day as the standard norm but what we need to do is establish together as Qur'anist Muslims if we are proclaiming aloud that we as Qur'anist muslims pray to Allah two or three times a day and lets right up a manual explaining the form of prayer in which we pray to Allah. Lets set up Masjids for Qur'anists Muslims ! We are not another sect of muslims like the Shia and the Sunni. We are muslims which the Qur'an proclaims. No more division lets stop the debate put are think tanks together and say look this is it.
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...but what we need to do is establish together as Qur'anist Muslims if we are proclaiming aloud that we as Qur'anist muslims pray to Allah two or three times a day and lets right up a manual explaining the form of prayer in which we pray to Allah. Lets set up Masjids for Qur'anists Muslims ! We are not another sect of muslims like the Shia and the Sunni. We are muslims which the Qur'an proclaims. No more division lets stop the debate put are think tanks together and say look this is it.
You might find this interesting
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htmIronically, what you call for is perhaps exactly what led to the situation we are in. God knows best.
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Peace
i can understand your point regarding saudi arabia....... But Egypt ???IS egypt different?
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IS egypt different?
Peace
Yes, you can not put Egypt and saudi arabia in the same basket regarding Laws. in egypt there is no hand amputation in theft punishement, they only go to minor jail sentence, infact the crime rate is rising as many roberries take place in the middle of the days in a crowded areas with the thieves being untouched. also there is no stoning, you can say no punishment at all to fornication or adultary. In deliberate killing there is a death punishment but this is the case in many western countaries.Good point. To a westerner the laws in Egypt are scary too
would you provide examples.
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Peace
Yes, you can not put Egypt and saudi arabia in the same basket regarding Laws. in egypt there is no hand amputation in theft punishement, they only go to minor jail sentence, infact the crime rate is rising as many roberries take place in the middle of the days in a crowded areas with the thieves being untouched. also there is no stoning, you can say no punishment at all to fornication or adultary. In deliberate killing there is a death punishment but this is the case in many western countaries.would you provide examples.
That is interesting. So Egypt has very similar laws to western countries? We are always told that all Arab countries have the same laws. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
