Hot/"ramadan" Answer

[ayman]

Peace Eid,

I understand your point in time 12 snapshot theory well.

Let's hope.

1712 ?and to know the years' number, and the counting/calculating?

This doesn't say anything about how you can know the number of years based on the day and night. As I mentioned my way is the ONLY way. This is indisputable and this is why you can't say anything.

This is where I disagree with your definition, shahr is not as snapshot; shahr is a time length = 29.53059 days.

Then you will never be able to count 12 of your 29.53059 days periods in any year. You are violating 936.

Again, with single point in time (i.e. full moon); your fast will end as soon as it starts.
2185? so who witnessed from you the month (alshshahra), so he should fast it?

Your incorrect understanding creates the following insurmountable contradictions

1. It creates inequality between 2185, which according to you says that the great reading was descended in 29.53059 days, while 971 clearly says that it was descended in a night.
2. It creates inequality between 2184 and 2185 since now according to you the abstinence is for 29.53059 days but 2184 clearly says a few (ma3doodat) days (3-10 max days), unless you invent a new meaning for "ma3doodat" out of thin air.
3. It creates redundancy in 2185 since if it was known that it was 29.53059 then "complete the count" is redundant and useless info.
4. It violates the clear command in 936 to count only 12 "shahr" because using 29.53059 to mean "shahr" results in counting 12.37 and not 12. The only way that we can possibly count 12 is if "shahr" is not a continuous period but is an integer event. THERE IS SIMPLY NO OTHER WAY.

Which animals, what countries, show the data.

This has been discussed previously in length. Please do your homework before asking.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12409.0

Yes, in context the Kaaba, the caravan/people moving, after completing Ihram you may hunt...

596 Permitted for you is the sea's hunting/fishing, and its food, enjoyment to you and to the caravan/people often moving, and forbidden on you the land's hunting?
It's clear that is a local ban not to deplete the resources of the gathering place.

In the context there is absolutely no mention of "hagg". It is clear that you are blindly repeating what sectrians believe.

Nice way to explain a contradiction. It's there simply ignore it. lol

It is your false understanding of "shahr" as 29.53059 that creates a major inconsistency between 2226 and 2228, which clearly show that we are consistently counting events and not a fixed period.

Where does it say 12 full moons EVERY YEAR?

936 clearly tells us that this is a system that is there since the god created the heavens and the earth.

Not counting same the nineteen infatuated not counting chapter titles.

This just shows that you are running out of anything of value to say.

Where you get 10 nights?
2234 ?four ashhurin and ten
14 ashhurin, which you count full moons then do not count/skip full moon.

If it is 14 full moons, then you count 14 full-moons. I already explained the purpose of counting of 12 according to 936 and it has nothing to do with spouse waiting period.

Me me, all about me, OK enough about me, tell me what you think -- about me. lol

In other words, you admit that you NEVER SAW THE NEW MOON and that you are merely speaking out of lack of experience.

There was NEVER a dispute on HALF MOON either, why would there be.

Even HALF MOON is a better marker that people will agree about more than the NEW MOON.

Your calendar is 100% Ayman made.

This shows that you still don't understand my theory. I NEVER even proposed a calendar.

Don't get excited over full-moon names, it was light outside that's all.

I am not excited because I knew this all along. You are the one who just learned now about the fact that most cultures used the full-moon to mark events throughout history.

It was 9pm last night and it looked like an ordinary full moon same as it did tonight at 930pm I came back from hitting full moon looking golf balls under bright white full moon light at the driving range packed with people; go outside look at the moon...
TODAY Aug 3 Moon Phase 95%
TUE Aug 4 Moon Phase 98%
WED Aug 5 Moon Phase Full Moon 856 P.M. (better not be cloudy else your fast is void)
THUR Aug 6 Moon Phase 100%
FRI Aug 7 Moon Phase 98%

Yet somehow, unlike the new moon, no one ever disagrees on when the full-moon occurs. Maybe it is rocket science to you but it is simple to everyone else.

Peace,

Ayman

[unknownuser]

Peace Ayman,

This doesn't say anything about how you can know the number of years based on the day and night. As I mentioned my way is the ONLY way. This is indisputable and this is why you can't say anything.

Then you will never be able to count 12 of your 29.53059 days periods in any year. You are violating 936.

Your incorrect understanding creates the following insurmountable contradictions

1. It creates inequality between 2185, which according to you says that the great reading was descended in 29.53059 days, while 971 clearly says that it was descended in a night.

2. It creates inequality between 2184 and 2185 since now according to you the abstinence is for 29.53059 days but 2184 clearly says a few (ma3doodat) days (3-10 max days), unless you invent a new meaning for "ma3doodat" out of thin air.

3. It creates redundancy in 2185 since if it was known that it was 29.53059 then "complete the count" is redundant and useless info.

4. It violates the clear command in 936 to count only 12 "shahr" because using 29.53059 to mean "shahr" results in counting 12.37 and not 12. The only way that we can possibly count 12 is if "shahr" is not a continuous period but is an integer event. THERE IS SIMPLY NO OTHER WAY.

5. Already answered this in another post; yes, started that night, when did these events take place, same night?

3124 When you say to the believers "Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord extends (supplies) you with three thousand from the angels sent descending?"

2532-33 And those who disbelieve say "Why is not the Qur'?n revealed to him all at once?" Thus, that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages. And no example or similitude do they bring, but We reveal to you the truth, and the better explanation thereof.

663 And when the prophet confided to some (of) his wives an information, so when she informed with it and God made it apparent on (to) him, he made some of it known and he opposed from some, so when he informed her with it, she said "Who informed you (of) this?" He said "The knowledgeable, the expert informed me."

80 He frowned and turned away that the blind came to him?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aHoM3E2Go

2. You dismiss it as being out of thin air yet maAAdoodatin is relative not always 3-10 max days.

324 illa ayyaman maAAdoodatin ? talks about a short time in hell (this is relative).

118 And if We delay the torment for them till a numbered term (again relative).

1220 darahima maAAdoodatin ? talks about a small price?
Depends on denominations used, example (10) $1 coins, (40) quarters, (100) dimes, a relative small price.

3. There is no redundancy or contradiction; simply says make up missed days as without water (56) no hardship.?
   ?.so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it, and who was sick or on journey, so numbered from other days. God wants with you the ease and does not want with you the hardship, and to complete alAAiddata?

4. Again, you're theory is no different than intercalation (937) legal one year, illegal in another.

This has been discussed previously in length. Please do your homework before asking.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12409.0

Clearly refuted; your restriction drifts a month; Jun 22 legal one year while another start July 21 it is not.

In the context there is absolutely no mention of "hagg". It is clear that you are blindly repeating what sectrians believe.

What's going on -- the Kaaba, the caravan/people moving, after completing Ihram you may hunt?

It is your false understanding of "shahr" as 29.53059 that creates a major inconsistency between 2226 and 2228, which clearly show that we are consistently counting events and not a fixed period.

There are no inconsistencies.

2226 about men, they swear clock starts and ends 4 months later.
2228 about women divorced wait three periods, variable different for each woman.

936 clearly tells us that this is a system that is there since the god created the heavens and the earth.

This just shows that you are running out of anything of value to say.

If it is 14 full moons, then you count 14 full-moons. I already explained the purpose of counting of 12 according to 936 and it has nothing to do with spouse waiting period.

Like your hunting restriction, a widow waits 13 months if husband died on the day of a full moon while another waits 29 days longer if he died one day after a full moon and in addition, either woman will not be able to tell 5-6 days since they?ll see a full moon.

In other words, you admit that you NEVER SAW THE NEW MOON and that you are merely speaking out of lack of experience.

Even HALF MOON is a better marker that people will agree about more than the NEW MOON.

This shows that you still don't understand my theory. I NEVER even proposed a calendar.

I am not excited because I knew this all along. You are the one who just learned now about the fact that most cultures used the full-moon to mark events throughout history.

Yet somehow, unlike the new moon, no one ever disagrees on when the full-moon occurs. Maybe it is rocket science to you but it is simple to everyone else.

Again cannot exactly determine a NEW MOON or FULL MOON with naked eye. If it?s cloudy you missed your fast, if you are blind/partly blind or even have 20/20 vision as evident the last 5 days which they all look alike to me and others which I asked while playing golf under the full moon light; does that moon look full to you, which he replied -- I can't see. lol

The new moon crescent start fast then when seeing it again ?D? as in Eid ? end fast.

2009 Aug 23
http//www.almanac.com/astronomy/images/m044.jpg

Peace

[ayman]

Peace Eid,

1. Already answered this in another post; yes, started that night, when did these events take place, same night?
   3124 When you say to the believers "Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord extends (supplies) you with three thousand from the angels sent descending?"
   2532-33 And those who disbelieve say "Why is not the Qur'?n revealed to him all at once?" Thus, that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages. And no example or similitude do they bring, but We reveal to you the truth, and the better explanation thereof.
   663 And when the prophet confided to some (of) his wives an information, so when she informed with it and God made it apparent on (to) him, he made some of it known and he opposed from some, so when he informed her with it, she said "Who informed you (of) this?" He said "The knowledgeable, the expert informed me."
   80 He frowned and turned away that the blind came to him?
   http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aHoM3E2Go

"Started that night" is nothing but conjecture. Which night?

According to you those things happened only during 29.53059 days! Clearly, your answer only demonstrates that you don't know the difference between "inzal" (in one night and certainly not 29.53059 days) and "tanzil" (gradually to the prophet's heart and certainly not 29.53059 days). Revelation is a two stage process.

2. You dismiss it as being out of thin air yet maAAdoodatin is relative not always 3-10 max days.
   324 illa ayyaman maAAdoodatin ? talks about a short time in hell (this is relative).
   118 And if We delay the torment for them till a numbered term (again relative).
   1220 darahima maAAdoodatin ? talks about a small price?
   Depends on denominations used, example (10) $1 coins, (40) quarters, (100) dimes, a relative small price.

The denomination is already known as Darahim so you are simply hanging at straws to save your contradictions. Please provide even a single piece of evidence showing that "ma3doodat" means 29.53059. After that please explain why the god would give redundant info. If "shahr" is already known to be 29.53059 days then why say "ayyam ma3doodat" and why say "complete the count"? Do you think that the god likes to give redundant and useless info!?

3. There is no redundancy or contradiction; simply says make up missed days as without water (56) no hardship.?
   ?.so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it, and who was sick or on journey, so numbered from other days. God wants with you the ease and does not want with you the hardship, and to complete alAAiddata?

"Ayyam ma3doodat" has nothing to do with making up missed days. It clearly describes the term of the fast. Had it already been known to be 29.53059 days as you conjecture then this would definitely be redundant and contradictory info.

4. Again, you're theory is no different than intercalation (937) legal one year, illegal in another.

Where is the word "intercalation" in 937? You are making up meanings out of thin air again. Also, I don't do anything in alternate fashion one year and then not do it the next and so on. I simply count 12 "shahr" EVERY SINGLE YEAR as commanded in 936.

Clearly refuted; your restriction drifts a month; Jun 22 legal one year while another start July 21 it is not.

It drifts but still within the period where wild life needs to be protected. It is not left up to the whims of people as you want it to be.

What's going on -- the Kaaba, the caravan/people moving, after completing Ihram you may hunt?

Where does it say that after completing "Ihram" you may hunt? It is not my problem that you are clueless about what the words "kaaba" and "ihram" mean and therefore are unable to translate them and are blindly following sectarians.

There are no inconsistencies.
2226 about men, they swear clock starts and ends 4 months later.
2228 about women divorced wait three periods, variable different for each woman.

The SAME EXACT Arabic word "tarabus" is used as the verb in both 2226 and 2228, indicating that it is the same exact action of waiting for events. Your conjecture creates inconsistencies between how the same exact verb is used.

Like your hunting restriction, a widow waits 13 months if husband died on the day of a full moon while another waits 29 days longer if he died one day after a full moon

Same as for the woman in 2228 she will wait longer if she just had her period or shorter if her period happens right after.

and in addition, either woman will not be able to tell 5-6 days since they?ll see a full moon.

Only if they are idiots.

Again cannot exactly determine a NEW MOON or FULL MOON with naked eye. If it?s cloudy you missed your fast, if you are blind/partly blind or even have 20/20 vision as evident the last 5 days which they all look alike to me and others which I asked while playing golf under the full moon light; does that moon look full to you, which he replied -- I can't see. lol
The new moon crescent start fast then when seeing it again ?D? as in Eid ? end fast.

You know that you are lying. I guarantee that you NEVER saw the new moon your entire life.

Peace,

Ayman

[unknownuser]

Peace Ayman,

"Started that night" is nothing but conjecture. Which night?

According to you those things happened only during 29.53059 days! Clearly, your answer only demonstrates that you don't know the difference between "inzal" (in one night and certainly not 29.53059 days) and "tanzil" (gradually to the prophet's heart and certainly not 29.53059 days). Revelation is a two stage process.

Start in a night during the month of Ramadan and I see what was posted finally caught your attention that "revelation is a two stage process" otherwise all those events happened only during one night would contradict.

If you still disagree, here's another chance to answer ? when did these events take place, same night?

3124 When you say to the believers "Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord extends (supplies) you with three thousand from the angels sent descending?"

2532-33 And those who disbelieve say "Why is not the Qur'?n revealed to him all at once?" Thus, that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages. And no example or similitude do they bring, but We reveal to you the truth, and the better explanation thereof.

663 And when the prophet confided to some (of) his wives an information, so when she informed with it and God made it apparent on (to) him, he made some of it known and he opposed from some, so when he informed her with it, she said "Who informed you (of) this?" He said "The knowledgeable, the expert informed me."

80 He frowned and turned away that the blind came to him?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aHoM3E2Go

The denomination is already known as Darahim so you are simply hanging at straws to save your contradictions. Please provide even a single piece of evidence showing that "ma3doodat" means 29.53059. After that please explain why the god would give redundant info. If "shahr" is already known to be 29.53059 days then why say "ayyam ma3doodat" and why say "complete the count"? Do you think that the god likes to give redundant and useless info!?

"Ayyam ma3doodat" has nothing to do with making up missed days. It clearly describes the term of the fast. Had it already been known to be 29.53059 days as you conjecture then this would definitely be redundant and contradictory info.

Already explained "darahima maAAdoodatin" is a relative term meaning they paid a small price and posted other verses...

324 illa ayyaman maAAdoodatin ? talks about a short time in hell (this is relative).
118 And if We delay the torment for them till a numbered term (again relative).

Two questions; don?t skip answering like your full moon every 3rd or 2nd year?

2185?.so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it, and who was sick or on journey, so numbered from other days?

1. How do you fast a full moon? Is not the above logically clear that shahr is a number of days not a single event?

2. Which part in 2185 informs you that ?God wants with you the ease and does not want with you the hardship, and to complete alAAiddata???

Where is the word "intercalation" in 937? You are making up meanings out of thin air again. Also, I don't do anything in alternate fashion one year and then not do it the next and so on. I simply count 12 "shahr" EVERY SINGLE YEAR as commanded in 936.

It drifts but still within the period where wild life needs to be protected. It is not left up to the whims of people as you want it to be.

Like those before who inserted a drift month to beautify their ego exactly described?

937 But the postponement an increase in the disbelief, those who disbelieved become misguided with it, they permit it a year and they forbid it a year, to agree to (the) term God prohibited, so they permit what God forbade, and (the) evil (of) their deeds was beautified for them, and God does not guide the nation the disbelieving.

Where does it say that after completing "Ihram" you may hunt? It is not my problem that you are clueless about what the words "kaaba" and "ihram" mean and therefore are unable to translate them and are blindly following sectarians.

I asked you what's going on (51-2 and 594-97), where are people traveling to?

596 Permitted for you is the sea's fishing, and its food, enjoyment to you and to the caravan/people often moving, and forbidden on you the land's hunting?

The SAME EXACT Arabic word "tarabus" is used as the verb in both 2226 and 2228, indicating that it is the same exact action of waiting for events. Your conjecture creates inconsistencies between how the same exact verb is used.

Yeah, what word did you expect? Waiting a stated time is waiting until a due date.

2226
952
998
20135
5230

Same as for the woman in 2228 she will wait longer if she just had her period or shorter if her period happens right after.

Absurd, comparing men who have to fast two consecutive months (492) to woman's periods; all have to fast exactly the same number of days not 29 days shorter/longer.

Only if they are idiots.

You know that you are lying. I guarantee that you NEVER saw the new moon your entire life.

The only arrogant pompous idiot is you and your ignorant cheerleaders posting in this thread.

I looked at the moon every night for 5 nights which they all looked full as it did to a member of my family and anyone else who bothered to look -- see guest's earlier post. Instead replying with idiot remarks simply ask members of your family or whoever to look at the moon the next time it is 98% full see if they are idiots too.

Btw, I'll try taking a picture of the new moon crescent coming up for you; not sure if my iPhone will catch it although aiming is proof.

Peace

[Ibrahim-Khalil]

Salam. Ayman, i live in Derbent, Russia, when i should fast accordin to your investigation? And, stop being so mad guyz, stop hatin on each otha so much, its not islam, even if yall will be fastin your whole life.

[guest]

Peace,

How did Prophet Muhammad and his follower fast?

The simple, short and sweet answer is According to the Qur'an.

Following is the details of my understanding

They used to fast in the month of Ramadan per 2185 (the Arabic month as we know it today)

There are 12 months per 936. And one moon cycle = one month per 2189, 1433, 555. Please note that the sun cannot give us the month because of the inherent long cycle. It does however give us days, nights, dawn, midday, sunset which are used for performing salat and other daily duties.

Now, 2189 says ?They ask you about the phases of the moon?. Clearly these phases belongs to one moon cycle because we only see one moon at a time. Therefore, the moon cycle begins with new moon and ends with the end of the last phase of the moon. This establishes a clear boundary between current moon and the subsequent moon which is not to be violated. Now, if someone foolishly define full-moon to full-moon cycle then he would be violating the boundary as established by the Quran . Further, he would introduce a bigger error in the timing system with this man made system.

Based on the above information, Ramadan starts with the sighting of new moon in the month of Ramadan. Errors will be made in sighting moon. Lets use an example to demonstrate the errors.

At location A, new moon is sighted with no problem and they have 30 days of fast.

At location B, moon sighted is two days old. Hence they have 29 days of fast.

At location C, moon sighted is three days old due to overcast issue. Thus, they have 28 days of fast.

Now, what is the God given solution to this problem. And the solution is given in 2184 - ?Specific days ......?. The God knows that we will be making unintentional errors and gives a way out by saying specific days instead of month. The specific days are 30, 29, 28.

Now lets analyze some quotes of Ayman's

Quote from Ayman "Then you will never be able to count 12 of your 29.53059 days periods in any year. You are violating 936."

This is not true per the following illustration

1 Month = 1 lunar Cycle = 29.53059 days

12 Months = 12 lunar Cycles = 354.36708 days

Therefore, by definition a lunar year is 354.36708 days period.

If you divide 354.36708/29.53059 you get 12.

Quote from Ayman "As I mentioned my way is the ONLY way."

We have been trying to find what your ONLY way is? Please tell us the start dates and the end dates of your timing system for the past three years. Map your start and end dates to solar calender in use today. Then we will see what happens when rubber meets the road. Why are you not releasing these information. Are you trying to hide something or are you afraid of knowledgeable people. Your mentality of my way or the highway will not work with people who uses their brain to verify the val idity of your claim.

Quote from Ayman ?Yet somehow, unlike the new moon, no one ever disagrees on when the full-moon occurs. Maybe it is rocket science to you but it is simple to everyone else.?

Your followers do not disagree because the devil already has you and your follower. Typically, when someone tries to do good deed, the satan whisper not to do it e.g. charity, salat, helping poor etc. In your case satan already has you, therefore, satan do not have to do any additional work.

Ayman and his followers will have this to say on the day of Judgment

3432 ? The leaders will say to those who followed them, ?Are we the ones who diverted you from the guidance after it came to you? No; it is you who were wicked.?

3433 ? The followers will say to their leaders, ?It was you who schemed night and day, then commanded us to be unappreciative of God, and to set up idols to rank with Him.? They will be ridden with remorse, when they see the retribution, for we will place shackles around the necks of those who disbelieved. Are they not justly requited for what they did?

[ayman]

Peace Eid,

Start in a night during the month of Ramadan and I see what was posted finally caught your attention that "revelation is a two stage process" otherwise all those events happened only during one night would contradict.
If you still disagree, here's another chance to answer ? when did these events take place, same night?

Not the same night. Only "inzal" happened in one night. On the other hand, the second stage of "tanzil" can happen anytime.

Now it is your turn. When did these events take place, in 29.53059 days?

Already explained "darahima maAAdoodatin" is a relative term meaning they paid a small price and posted other verses...
324 illa ayyaman maAAdoodatin ? talks about a short time in hell (this is relative)
118 And if We delay the torment for them till a numbered term (again relative).

Your explanation has no logic. Even a million Darahim would be a relatively small price for a human being. So according to you "ma3doodat" can mean "a million" it also contradicts the clear meaning of "10 or less" as given by the dictionaries. So not only you are being illogical but you are making up your own invented meanings out of thin air.

Two questions; don?t skip answering like your full moon every 3rd or 2nd year?
2185?.so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it, and who was sick or on journey, so numbered from other days?

1. How do you fast a full moon? Is not the above logically clear that shahr is a number of days not a single event?

How do you fast 29.53059 days? Is it not logically clear that no one can stay alive while fasting for 29.53059 days? Also, 2185 clearly says that ?who witnessed from you? (perfect past tense). So according to you it is ?who witnessed from you 29.53059 days? should fast. So your nonsensical theory means that when you are still in day 1, 2, 3, etc. you don?t fast. It is only when you witness the 29.53059 days that you can now go back in time and fast.

The ONLY way 2185 can make sense is if ?shahr ramadhan? is an event that marks the beginning of the fasting duty. This is why the details of the fasting duty are given in the passages around 2185.

2. Which part in 2185 informs you that ?God wants with you the ease and does not want with you the hardship, and to complete alAAiddata???

What are you talking about? ?ayyam ma3doodat? is in 2184. Try to focus.

Like those before who inserted a drift month to beautify their ego exactly described?
937 But the postponement an increase in the disbelief, those who disbelieved become misguided with it, they permit it a year and they forbid it a year, to agree to (the) term God prohibited, so they permit what God forbade, and (the) evil (of) their deeds was beautified for them, and God does not guide the nation the disbelieving.

You don?t seem to know the difference between ?drift? and ?postponement?. The drift is a natural result of the marker being the full-moon after the summer solstice. On the other hand, the ?postponement? is a manmade decision to delay the restriction period, as in your case where your 100% arbitrary timing for the hunting restriction, the ?fast? and the ?hajj? are left to your whims and fantasies.

I asked you what's going on (51-2 and 594-97), where are people traveling to?

596 Permitted for you is the sea's fishing, and its food, enjoyment to you and to the caravan/people often moving, and forbidden on you the land's hunting?

They are traveling to anywhere. Do you think that people only travel for ?hajj??

Now tell us when is your fast and "hajj" or is it 100% arbitrary like that of Guest and can be "postponed" according to your or some other guy's whims?

Yeah, what word did you expect? Waiting a stated time is waiting until a due date.

2226
952
998
20135
5230

None of the above talks about any due date. They all talk about events. Getting stricken with punishment is an event. Waiting for things to turn on you is an event. Waiting for something bad to happen to a person is also an event. Etc. Please read what you are quoting before falsely claiming that it talks about a ?due date? which is only in your head.

So you can add all the passages that you brought to 2228 and 2226 which confirm that we are consistently dealing with waiting for EVENTS.

Absurd, comparing men who have to fast two consecutive months (492) to woman's periods; all have to fast exactly the same number of days not 29 days shorter/longer.

What is absurd is your lack of understanding. In 492 they have to fast the period between two consecutive full-moons. The period between two full-moons is a fixed period. This is why the word ?consecutive? is used. It is not between now and two full moons, it is between two full-moons.

The only arrogant pompous idiot is you and your ignorant cheerleaders posting in this thread.

You mean I am not incredibly smart like Guest and you. LoL.

I looked at the moon every night for 5 nights which they all looked full as it did to a member of my family and anyone else who bothered to look -- see guest's earlier post. Instead replying with idiot remarks simply ask members of your family or whoever to look at the moon the next time it is 98% full see if they are idiots too.

Siki spelled it out for you and so did Truthseeker. It is not my problem that you are so angry that you can?t read what you should have figured out on your own anyway. You need to learn to be cool, especially if you have the high ground, which in this case you don?t.

Btw, I'll try taking a picture of the new moon crescent coming up for you; not sure if my iPhone will catch it although aiming is proof.

I said that you have NEVER seen the new moon and instead of admitting to this truth like any decent and honest person you decide to evade it and go on a futile exercise (thereby inadvertently confirming what I said). Fine. The new moon is on August 20. Good luck witnessing it or taking a picture of it with a powerful zoom, let alone an iPhone. You are going to need a lot of luck. I can guarantee that you will fail and you will be able to see at best the 1-2 day old moon on August 21 or 22 but not the actual new moon on August 20. We will see if you are big enough to admit your mistake.

Peace,

Ayman

[unknownuser]

Peace Ayman,

Not the same night. Only "inzal" happened in one night. On the other hand, the second stage of "tanzil" can happen anytime.

Now it is your turn. When did these events take place, in 29.53059 days?

No. It started that night rest was obviously revealed later. Good to see you changed your mind on this.

Your explanation has no logic. Even a million Darahim would be a relatively small price for a human being. So according to you "ma3doodat" can mean "a million" it also contradicts the clear meaning of "10 or less" as given by the dictionaries. So not only you are being illogical but you are making up your own invented meanings out of thin air.

I go by Qur?an and yes even a million days in hell can be little compared to eternity.
324

Likewise, a numbered/near term is relative not 10 or less...
118

How do you fast 29.53059 days? Is it not logically clear that no one can stay alive while fasting for 29.53059 days? Also, 2185 clearly says that ?who witnessed from you? (perfect past tense). So according to you it is ?who witnessed from you 29.53059 days? should fast. So your nonsensical theory means that when you are still in day 1, 2, 3, etc. you don?t fast. It is only when you witness the 29.53059 days that you can now go back in time and fast.

The ONLY way 2185 can make sense is if ?shahr ramadhan? is an event that marks the beginning of the fasting duty. This is why the details of the fasting duty are given in the passages around 2185.

Answering a question with questions is evading the question ? how do you fast a full moon?

To know is to see/witness and one can know/witness without physically seeing. The blind and people living in cloudy weather also fast during the month of Ramadan. Fast is during the day, when you see NEW MOON CRESCENT start fasting next day, and again the next day, until you see the new moon crescent again, stop fasting.

What are you talking about? ?ayyam ma3doodat? is in 2184. Try to focus.

Pay attention, I was responding to your redundancy claim that this part is meaningless? 2185 ?God wants with you the ease and does not want with you the hardship, and to complete alAAiddata??

You don?t seem to know the difference between ?drift? and ?postponement?. The drift is a natural result of the marker being the full-moon after the summer solstice. On the other hand, the ?postponement? is a manmade decision to delay the restriction period, as in your case where your 100% arbitrary timing for the hunting restriction, the ?fast? and the ?hajj? are left to your whims and fantasies.

You're making stuff up imagination gone wild; first it was to protect animals during birth; then when it was shown you that some are born during May, you fantasize about Arabs chasing them down with fast horses during weaning in the hot months of June, July, August; then when it's pointed out that your hunting restriction swings a whole month, you say well that's within range like animals mating habits drift a whole month...what a story teller. LOL

They are traveling to anywhere. Do you think that people only travel for ?hajj??

In context 51-2 and 594-97 are they still traveling anywhere?

Now tell us when is your fast and "hajj" or is it 100% arbitrary like that of Guest and can be "postponed" according to your or some other guy's whims?

Moon phases for Riyadh, Saudi Arabia year 643
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=643&n=214

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/PERF558.html
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/jones.html

Grohmann worked out "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" to be 25th April, 643 CE.
The date fits with two of the most commonly available conversion tables those of Caetani and of Freeman-Grenville.?? They make the last day of Jumada I equate with 26th April, 643 CE.

According to above which you can roll back only ten years to time of the prophet (peace and blessing upon him)?

New Moon - Start New Month

1/25/643 1124 PM 27-Jan 3. Rabi' al-awwal
24-Feb 900 AM 26-Feb 4. Rabi' al-thani
25-Mar 603 PM 27-Mar 5. Jumada al-awwal 4/25/643 PERF 558
4/24/643 324 AM 4/26/643 6. Jumada al-thani
23-May 158 PM 25-May 7. Rajab
22-Jun 221 AM 24-Jun 8. Sha'aban
21-Jul 439 PM 23-Jul 9. Ramadan
20-Aug 832 AM 22-Aug 10. Shawwal
19-Sep 125 AM 21-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
18-Oct 633 PM 20-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
17-Nov 1102 AM 19-Nov 1. Muharram
17-Dec 158 AM 19-Dec 2. Safar

So you can add all the passages that you brought to 2228 and 2226 which confirm that we are consistently dealing with waiting for EVENTS.

As already stated, waiting a stated time is waiting for an event.

What is absurd is your lack of understanding. In 492 they have to fast the period between two consecutive full-moons. The period between two full-moons is a fixed period. This is why the word ?consecutive? is used. It is not between now and two full moons, it is between two full-moons.

Two full moons is EXACTLY 1 lunar month = 29.53059 days

So right back at you ? how do you fast 29.53059 days?

How do you fast one full moon or 0 days?

You mean I am not incredibly smart like Guest and you. LoL.

Siki spelled it out for you and so did Truthseeker. It is not my problem that you are so angry that you can?t read what you should have figured out on your own anyway. You need to learn to be cool, especially if you have the high ground, which in this case you don?t.

I was extraordinarily cool after you referred to myself and a family member of mine as idiots and called me a liar too and your cheerleader truthseeker during his meaningless rant called us ignorant.

I said that you have NEVER seen the new moon and instead of admitting to this truth like any decent and honest person you decide to evade it and go on a futile exercise (thereby inadvertently confirming what I said). Fine. The new moon is on August 20. Good luck witnessing it or taking a picture of it with a powerful zoom, let alone an iPhone. You are going to need a lot of luck. I can guarantee that you will fail and you will be able to see at best the 1-2 day old moon on August 21 or 22 but not the actual new moon on August 20. We will see if you are big enough to admit your mistake.

Check your vision and exactly what I wrote?

Btw, I'll try taking a picture of the new moon crescent coming up for you; not sure if my iPhone will catch it although aiming is proof.

Peace

[Ibrahim-Khalil]

ayman, r u ignorin my post?

[ayman]

ayman, r u ignorin my post?

Nope just responding in chronological order. I am on an airplane getting ready to take off. I won't be able to respond until after at least eight hrs.

Peace

Ayman

[unknownuser]

Salaam,

Salam. Ayman, i live in Derbent, Russia, when i should fast accordin to your investigation? And, stop being so mad guyz, stop hatin on each otha so much, its not islam, even if yall will be fastin your whole life.

You're near Baku, Azerbaijan

http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2009&n=369

Moon phases for Baku, Azerbaijan

<2008 year 2009 2010>

Full Moon
11-Jan 727 AM
9-Feb 649 PM
11-Mar 638 AM
9-Apr 756 PM
9-May 902 AM
7-Jun 1112 PM
7-Jul 222 PM (full moon after summer solstice this year happened in daytime.)
6-Aug 555 AM
4-Sep 902 PM
4-Oct 1110 AM
2-Nov 1114 PM
2-Dec 1131 AM
31-Dec 1113 PM

[herbman]

Hi Ayman, Hi all,

Just one question, if as you stated Ramadan is to be done from first full moon after summer solstice, that would mean people in north hemispher and south hemispher will not fast together, nor hajj together.

Possible answer Yes so is salat, everyone pray at their specific time.

But then what do you do with Hajj which is a call for all mankind and therefore has to be one event for all the people (and not 2 events one for north and one for south)

Don't know if I explained well the problems?

[afridi220]

Hi Ayman, Hi all,

Just one question, if as you stated Ramadan is to be done from first full moon after summer solstice, that would mean people in north hemispher and south hemispher will not fast together, nor hajj together.

Possible answer Yes so is salat, everyone pray at their specific time.

But then what do you do with Hajj which is a call for all mankind and therefore has to be one event for all the people (and not 2 events one for north and one for south)

Don't know if I explained well the problems?

laugh You shooting the rock through the first bird, and into the second.

[herbman]

I don't want to shoot any rock I just want to find the truth. I like the idea of having natural markers to resolve this issue, like we use markers for salat, and I think it is the most logical concept.

[afridi220]

I don't want to shoot any rock I just want to find the truth. I like the idea of having natural markers to resolve this issue, like we use markers for salat, and I think it is the most logical concept.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597441.0

[Ex-"Quranist"]

Hi Ayman, Hi all,

Just one question, if as you stated Ramadan is to be done from first full moon after summer solstice, that would mean people in north hemispher and south hemispher will not fast together, nor hajj together.

Possible answer Yes so is salat, everyone pray at their specific time.

But then what do you do with Hajj which is a call for all mankind and therefore has to be one event for all the people (and not 2 events one for north and one for south)

Don't know if I explained well the problems?

Ssssssshhhhh... You have just presented the biggest problem and most illogical part of Ayman's system.

[Rami]

Ssssssshhhhh... You have just presented the biggest problem and most illogical part of Ayman's system. )

It is not a problem at all because it is ordering people living near the House...so when say Ramadan means Ramadan of the Land not of the north pole.

[ayman]

Peace Ibrahim-Khalil,

Salam. Ayman, i live in Derbent, Russia, when i should fast accordin to your investigation? And, stop being so mad guyz, stop hatin on each otha so much, its not islam, even if yall will be fastin your whole life.

You already missed the scorching full-moon (?shahr ramadhan?) for this year. The night of the scorching full-moon for 2009 was July 6. Therefore, the fast started on July 7 for 10 days and so the last day of fasting was July 16.

For next year, the scorching full-moon will be on June 25, 2010. Therefore, the first day of the fast will be June 26 for 10 days and so the last day will be July 5.

I hope this helps.

group

Peace,

Ayman

[ayman]

Peace Eid,

No. It started that night rest was obviously revealed later. Good to see you changed your mind on this.

Please quote where I said that ?inzal? wasn?t in one night.

I go by Qur?an and yes even a million days in hell can be little compared to eternity.
324

I know no one who claims that they will stay in hell for 1 million days, which is relatively little compared to eternity. You are again forced to invent your own illogical meaning out of thin air because you can?t resolve the contradiction and now a few (?ma3doodat?) days can be made to mean a million days in your fantasy world.

Likewise, a numbered/near term is relative not 10 or less...
118

There is nothing in 118 which says that it is not 10 or less so you must be imagining again.

Answering a question with questions is evading the question ? how do you fast a full moon?
To know is to see/witness and one can know/witness without physically seeing. The blind and people living in cloudy weather also fast during the month of Ramadan. Fast is during the day, when you see NEW MOON CRESCENT start fasting next day, and again the next day, until you see the new moon crescent again, stop fasting.

So now you are forced to do a cartwheel and invent another new meaning for ?shahr? as ?new moon crescent? (an event) instead of ?29.53059 days?. What is it the meaning of ?shahr? according to you, ?new moon crescent? or ?29.53059 days?? You are clearly caught in your inconsistencies. The reason why you are caught is the fact that ?shahid? is in the perfect past tense. In other words, you have to witness first in order to fast so clearly it is impossible for ?shahr? to mean ?29.53059 days? but it MUST be an event. Therefore despite all your ignorant noise about ?shahr? not being an event you are now forced to make a 180 degrees turn and implicitly acknowledge that it is in fact an event, which you claim is the new moon crescent.

Pay attention, I was responding to your redundancy claim that this part is meaningless? 2185 ?God wants with you the ease and does not want with you the hardship, and to complete alAAiddata??

You need to read the whole passage from 2184 and not snip it. What is the function of ?ayyam ma3doodat? in 2184 if it is known that ?shahr? means ?29.53059 days?? It would have no function and would be completely redundant.

You're making stuff up imagination gone wild; first it was to protect animals during birth; then when it was shown you that some are born during May, you fantasize about Arabs chasing them down with fast horses during weaning in the hot months of June, July, August; then when it's pointed out that your hunting restriction swings a whole month, you say well that's within range like animals mating habits drift a whole month...what a story teller. LOL

Please show were I said ?that's within range like animals mating habits?.

In context 51-2 and 594-97 are they still traveling anywhere?

Yes, they are traveling anywhere unless you want to corner yourself again and propose that livestock had been made lawful to you in 51 only during ?hajj? and cooperating on righteousness in 52 only happen during the ?hajj?.

Moon phases for Riyadh, Saudi Arabia year 643
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=643&n=214
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/PERF558.html
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/jones.html
Grohmann worked out "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" to be 25th April, 643 CE.
The date fits with two of the most commonly available conversion tables those of Caetani and of Freeman-Grenville.?? They make the last day of Jumada I equate with 26th April, 643 CE.
According to above which you can roll back only ten years to time of the prophet (peace and blessing upon him)?
New Moon - Start New Month
1/25/643 1124 PM 27-Jan 3. Rabi' al-awwal
24-Feb 900 AM 26-Feb 4. Rabi' al-thani
25-Mar 603 PM 27-Mar 5. Jumada al-awwal 4/25/643 PERF 558
4/24/643 324 AM 4/26/643 6. Jumada al-thani
23-May 158 PM 25-May 7. Rajab
22-Jun 221 AM 24-Jun 8. Sha'aban
21-Jul 439 PM 23-Jul 9. Ramadan
20-Aug 832 AM 22-Aug 10. Shawwal
19-Sep 125 AM 21-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
18-Oct 633 PM 20-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
17-Nov 1102 AM 19-Nov 1. Muharram
17-Dec 158 AM 19-Dec 2. Safar

So now you are abandoning your arbitrary whimsical calendar where each one gets to decide their time for the ?hajj?, the fast, and the restriction according to their fantasies and instead cheerleading for the equally baseless and 100% arbitrary traditional calendar that had been thoroughly discredited on this thread by everyone with any common sense!

It doesn?t take a genius to realize that had the traditional calendar been made to start on the new moon prior to when it was adopted then your Jumada I would have been Rabi' Al-Thani and your Ramadan would have been Shaaban and so on. Also, had the arbitrary order of the months been different then you would have completely different Ramadan and so on. So your useless traditional timing is 100% arbitrary and manmade.

As already stated, waiting a stated time is waiting for an event.

No, it is not the same except in your fantasy land. Waiting for the event of menstruation is not waiting a stated time. Same goes for waiting for the event of the full-moon/?shahr?, or the event of something bad happening, a disaster, etc.

Two full moons is EXACTLY 1 lunar month = 29.53059 days
So right back at you ? how do you fast 29.53059 days?

You don?t fast the continuous period of 29.53059 days (?shahr? according to you). No one does and is still alive. You fast daily between 2 full moons. The consecutive full-moons in the case of 492 simply signal the start and end of the fast.

How do you fast one full moon or 0 days?

Same as in 492, the full moon signals the start of the fast and the details of how long and the manner of the fast are given elsewhere. No one fasts 29.53059 days continuously.

I was extraordinarily cool after you referred to myself and a family member of mine as idiots and called me a liar too and your cheerleader truthseeker during his meaningless rant called us ignorant.

You were referring to two hypothetical women who will not be able to tell the full-moon and so was I. I never said anything about you or a family member or any real person. If you don?t like what I said about those hypothetical women then I apologize and take back what I said. Now going back to your very intelligent hypothetical women, let?s listen to their conversation

August 3, Sunset is at 710PM
hypno Hypothetical Woman 1 The moon looks like an ordinary full moon.
! Hypothetical Woman 2 The moon and the sun are on opposite sides of the earth so the real full moon appears right after sunset. Today?s moon, besides not being symmetric appeared an hour before sunset at 610PM.

August 4, Sunset is at 710PM
hypno Hypothetical Woman 1 The moon looks like an ordinary full moon.
) Hypothetical Woman 2 Again, today?s moon, besides not being perfectly symmetric appeared half an hour before sunset at 640PM.

August 5, Sunset is at 710PM
) Hypothetical Woman 2 Look it is 710PM and the perfectly symmetric full moon appeared at the opposite end of the sky from the sunset immediately after sunset. This is the full moon.
sun Hypothetical Woman 1 Wow you are right. This is so easy. Now I understand why, unlike the new moon crescent, there was never any dispute about when the full moon occurs and all ancient civilizations knew exactly when the full-moon occurs without any computers or technology.

(Data is for Washington, DC)

You should follow the example of the above hypothetical women.

Check your vision and exactly what I wrote?

I know that you wrote NEW MOON crescent and not any regular crescent. As I said, the NEW MOON CRESCENT will appear on August 20. I guarantee that you will not be able to see it, let alone take a picture of it, on August 20 but you may see the 1-2 day old one on August 21 or 22. Don?t try to wiggle out of what you wrote by dishonestly taking a picture of a regular 1-2 day old crescent and not the NEW MOON crescent. You can also start to demonstrate your honesty by humbly admitting to the fact that you NEVER saw the NEW MOON CRESCENT in your life.

Peace,

Ayman

[ayman]

Peace Herbman,

Just one question, if as you stated Ramadan is to be done from first full moon after summer solstice, that would mean people in north hemispher and south hemispher will not fast together, nor hajj together.
Possible answer Yes so is salat, everyone pray at their specific time.
But then what do you do with Hajj which is a call for all mankind and therefore has to be one event for all the people (and not 2 events one for north and one for south)
Don't know if I explained well the problems?

The answer to your question will depend on the person.

1. If the person believes "hajj" to be spinning 7 times around a stone cube named Kaaba and kissing or waving at a Black Stone set in its corner while wearing nothing but towels so that his sins are wiped out then they will say that this is the biggest problem. However, frankly speaking, such person has much more severe problems on their plate. They should get their fundamentals and heart in the right place first and the timing is the least of their worries and they are not even in a position to discuss it.

2. If the person knows that 90% of the "hajj" passages talk about food and eating and that "hajj" means "feast" to the people of the book then it is natural that such feast where we share the bounties that the god provided to us would best take place when the harvest occurs and produce and livestock are plentiful, which would be different between Northern and Southern hemispheres. This person also knows that the period of the 4 restricted full moons is about hunting restriction and since wild life follows the solar cycle, it is also natural for the timing of the restriction to be different between Northern and Southern hemispheres. So for such a person, the timing being different between the Northern and Southern hemispheres is not an issue. This person knows that the location of the house is clearly given in 2226 and it is not specifically in the Northern and Southern hemispheres. Even without the great reading, this person instinctively feels that there is something not quite right about revering and spinning around a black cube or kissing a Black Stone no matter how popular and no matter what his or her forefathers told him or her. This person has his or her heart in the right place. This person recognizes the truth when he or she sees it.

Peace,

Ayman