Debate- what constitutes a marriage?
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Unmarried couples both faithful and in long term relationships?
Common law partnership. Wikipedia "Common-law marriage, sometimes called de facto marriage, informal marriage or marriage by habit and repute, is a form of interpersonal status which is legally recognized in some jurisdictions as a marriage even though no legally recognized marriage ceremony is performed or civil marriage contract is entered into or the marriage registered in a civil registry."
Where?
Most of the Western world.
I thought being faithful was being faithful with the god
Where does god come into this? Two unbelievers can be faithful to each other to death without a ceremony, witnesses, a registration, or certification.
in the long term by making a contract for two parties making a partnership involving both finances and responsibility of young people, no?
There are people that don't even think about this when they fall in love and get married.
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Interestingly enough, in traditional Christianity, you are not married, and should not live together or have sex until you have been through a religious wedding ceremony. The wedding ceremony is considered (by the Catholic Church) as one of the sacraments. And yet the early Christian religion accepted people that just announced they were together and married, and many popes, bishops etc had live-in girlfriends. A little hypocritical
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Taking it back to basics, cultural traditions and civil law aside, what makes two people married in the eyes of God? If 'marriage' comprises mutual consent, commitment, witnesses and notification of friends and family what fundamentally separates the above scenario from a marriage? I'd like to clarify that i'm not referring to the celebratory side to a marriage ie wedding. I'd be interested you hear your views on this. I know it may be controversial but I thought I would open it up for debate...
My friend and I were discussing this and we came to the conclusion that because we don't know for sure what is 'true', we should just marry in accordance with different ceremonies. Woohoo 50 (or so) weddings!
But to be serious, I know for sure that locally, the people here think civil marriage is not 'legal in the eyes of God' unlike one that was conducted in the Sunni way. There was a debate about it in the papers a couple of years ago. I used to think so too until I actually saw the ceremony itself and thought "Well, what's the big deal about it?". Actually, I really dislike the Sunni way and should I ever marry, I will never consent to that.
And I know this view is unpopular but I do not want my future spouse to convert to Islam just to marry. That's another thing; in the eyes of some people, the marriage is only 'legal' if they are of the same religion. There's a lot of folks in my country who convert just to get married and then of course that's just in name. Some may think it's 'true love' to give up your own beliefs just to marry another but I call bullshit because heck, why isn't the other person doing the same then. What makes their beliefs any truer?
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That's another thing; in the eyes of some people, the marriage is only 'legal' if they are of the same religion. There's a lot of folks in my country who convert just to get married and then of course that's just in name. Some may think it's 'true love' to give up your own beliefs just to marry another but I call bullshit because heck, why isn't the other person doing the same then. What makes their beliefs any truer?
Don't blame Islam for that. It exists in Christianity and Judaism too.
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Don't blame Islam for that. It exists in Christianity and Judaism too.
Oh I wasn't just talking about Islam though I started out with my personal thing. I don't know any Jews locally but I know of Christians who say that too. Majority are under 'other' though and they are the ones who usually end up converting to Islam/Christianity/whatever other religion.
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Oh I wasn't just talking about Islam though I started out with my personal thing. I don't know any Jews locally but I know of Christians who say that too. Majority are under 'other' though and they are the ones who usually end up converting to Islam/Christianity/whatever other religion.
Most religions say how tolerant they are of other beliefs, but their marriage rules show that they really are not.
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Not just that, their "getting into heaven" rules too. Or whatever their version of the afterlife.
Yes you are right. I had a fellow minister from one of the local Baptist churches (there are many here) tell me I was going to hell because I did not accept Jesus as my only saviour. I said to him that in the bible Jesus is mentioned as the saviour 5 times but God is mentioned as our ONLY saviour some 37 times, so who do you believe? He just kept on saying that I was going to hell, so I just said "OK, I'll see you there then".
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Yes you are right. I had a fellow minister from one of the local Baptist churches (there are many here) tell me I was going to hell because I did not accept Jesus as my only saviour. I said to him that in the bible Jesus is mentioned as the saviour 5 times but God is mentioned as our ONLY saviour some 37 times, so who do you believe? He just kept on saying that I was going to hell, so I just said "OK, I'll see you there then".
rotfl bravo good!
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Some may think it's 'true love' to give up your own beliefs just to marry another but I call bullshit because heck, why isn't the other person doing the same then. What makes their beliefs any truer?
If it really was "true love," neither parties would care about the other person's religious affiliations or lack thereof. A lot people will bring up the mental upbringing of children as if it's something they can control.
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I believe it involves giving doweries and signing a contract. Everything else is optional.
Compare that to Hislam where you cannot even date someone before marriage. You have to consult an imam (your god) and tell him you want to get married (in sunnism, it means using your penis on your wife in any manner as long as you don't insert it in the back hole) and then your god will get some unmarried girl and present her to you. You like the way she looks and in no time she is giving birth to a child.
Hail Satan. hail
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I believe it involves giving doweries and signing a contract. Everything else is optional.
Compare that to Hislam where you cannot even date someone before marriage. You have to consult an imam (your god) and tell him you want to get married (in sunnism, it means using your penis on your wife in any manner as long as you don't insert it in the back hole) and then your god will get some unmarried girl and present her to you. You like the way she looks and in no time she is giving birth to a child.
Hail Satan. hail
That does sound a little satanic
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It does because they're not following the book of God but the books of half-monks who wanted the system of God to be that way.
Or, their imams which I've recently confirmed are NEEDED along with the baseless hadith books for today's "Islam" to exist.
This is even MORE undeniable proof that these imams are being taken as gods. What the f*ck? Who gives a crap, they are human beings. Muhammad could not even give his own advice and guide those he cherished dearly. How the heck can modern day religious leaders do this when they even consider themselves BELOW MUHAMMAD?
God is the only guider, and as such you should follow only his words, the words Muhammad was not allowed to explain (since he couldn't and doing so would be blasphemy according to God). I was about to provide the verse proving this, but here's a link about it and it has the verses in it http//www.al-qiyamah.org/surah_16-19.htm
According to that link the ulema (scholars of ignorance) even tried to twist it to make it say Muhammad was forbidden from explaining THE DAY OF RESURRECTION and not the Quran, but it should be obvious what is meant.
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It does because they're not following the book of God but the books of half-monks who wanted the system of God to be that way.
Or, their imams which I've recently confirmed are NEEDED along with the baseless hadith books for today's "Islam" to exist.
This is even MORE undeniable proof that these imams are being taken as gods. What the f*ck? Who gives a crap, they are human beings. Muhammad could not even give his own advice and guide those he cherished dearly. How the heck can modern day religious leaders do this when they even consider themselves BELOW MUHAMMAD?
God is the only guider, and as such you should follow only his words, the words Muhammad was not allowed to explain (since he couldn't and doing so would be blasphemy according to God). I was about to provide the verse proving this, but here's a link about it and it has the verses in it http//www.al-qiyamah.org/surah_16-19.htm
According to that link the ulema (scholars of ignorance) even tried to twist it to make it say Muhammad was forbidden from explaining THE DAY OF RESURRECTION and not the Quran, but it should be obvious what is meant.
There seems to be little difference between them and traditional Christians
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Common law partnership. Wikipedia "Common-law marriage, sometimes called de facto marriage, informal marriage or marriage by habit and repute, is a form of interpersonal status which is legally recognized in some jurisdictions as a marriage even though no legally recognized marriage ceremony is performed or civil marriage contract is entered into or the marriage registered in a civil registry."
Most of the Western world.
Where does god come into this? Two unbelievers can be faithful to each other to death without a ceremony, witnesses, a registration, or certification.
There are people that don't even think about this when they fall in love and get married.
Two unbelievers can be faithful? Yet most atheists do not get into such agreements, they waft into fornication. The majority never get into marriage, and have many failed relationships.
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Two unbelievers can be faithful? Yet most atheists do not get into such agreements, they waft into fornication. The majority never get into marriage, and have many failed relationships.
Salaam
Common knowedge that a couple is living as spouses doesn't that amount to making everyone witnesses to their relationship?
Beside what is the difference when a believing couple decide not to have childern until they are either sure of their relationship or want to establish themselves first? Does their relationship amount to fornication too??peace