Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Progressive1993,
Please quote where I said that "The Quran was revealed IN THE MOON OF SCORCHING HEAT". If you can't then you are either a liar or have a learning disability that prevents you from reading properly or both.
Peace,
Ayman
There is no more escaping with your childish comments above.
I said
Quote from progressive1993 on Yesterday at 050409 PM
Also, another question for ayman
How can the Quran have been sent down IN a moon?
Just to recap, it actually says "in".. too bad, eh?
2185 The month of Ramadan, is the month in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion...
2185 Shahru ramadana allatheeonzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasiwabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqanThen you said
It is the same as when someone tells you I am sitting in the scorching full moon or in a bright sun or in a cloudy afternoon. This is perfectly normal in regular speech. It doesn't mean that they traveled to the sun and are sitting on its surface!
There you go..you directly answered my question "how can it be reveled IN the MOON of Ramadan." Stop making excuses and baseless accusations like you always do.
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Peace,
Quote from progressive1993 on August 25, 2009, 060057 PM
105 He is the One who made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the calculation. God has not created this except for truth. He details the signs for a people who know.
Not sure if the verse says the sun has stages, but that could just mean for calculating the day. Tell me, ayman, is the thing about phases for the moon or the sun?Ayman?s response ?Please read the original Arabic. Knowing the number of years and the calculation is the result of BOTH the sun and the moon (the whole underlined clause) and not just the second part. The fact that the sun is used is confirmed by 1712, which you completely ignore as if it didn't exist.?
This is a pathetic response. Ayman has no idea (Zero knowledge) about the phases of moon or the definition of celestial phases. The sad part is he cannot be taught because the God has sealed his heart and mind. Therefore, he will reject the truth and God?s sign. For this, he will be humiliated in this world and far worst waits for him in the hereafter.
The God talks about phases of the moon in the following two verses
2189 - They ask you about the phases of the moon! Say, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj." It is not righteous to beat around the bush; righteousness is attained by upholding the commandments and by being straightforward. You shall observe GOD, that you may succeed.
8418 - And the moon and its phases.
The natural question then what is the definition of phases?
From science and through observation we know that the moon orbits around the Earth. An observer on the Earth sees the starting phase of moon (new moon) when the moon is in-between the Earth and the sun. Then we see the half moon, full moon, half moon again and finally back to the starting phase.
The moon has phases because it orbits around the Earth and it is not a source of radiation. These are the conditions that must be satisfied to have phases (definition). Does sun satisfy these conditions, Ayman?
Ayman violates this definition when he says sun has phases. This is absurd. The sun doesn?t go around the Earth. The Earth goes around the sun.
Ayman should first define what phases or stages is? And then show it works for moon phases and the so called sun phases.
Another point to note is that there is no mention of ?sun and its phases? in the Quran. This is Ayman imagination.
The phases in 105 clearly belong to the moon. This is the straightforward and easy understanding of the verse.
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Peace,
Quote from progressive1993 on August 25, 2009, 060057 PM
105 He is the One who made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the calculation. God has not created this except for truth. He details the signs for a people who know.
Not sure if the verse says the sun has stages, but that could just mean for calculating the day. Tell me, ayman, is the thing about phases for the moon or the sun?Ayman?s response ?Please read the original Arabic. Knowing the number of years and the calculation is the result of BOTH the sun and the moon (the whole underlined clause) and not just the second part. The fact that the sun is used is confirmed by 1712, which you completely ignore as if it didn't exist.?
This is a pathetic response. Ayman has no idea (Zero knowledge) about the phases of moon or the definition of celestial phases. The sad part is he cannot be taught because the God has sealed his heart and mind. Therefore, he will reject the truth and God?s sign. For this, he will be humiliated in this world and far worst waits for him in the hereafter.
The God talks about phases of the moon in the following two verses
2189 - They ask you about the phases of the moon! Say, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj." It is not righteous to beat around the bush; righteousness is attained by upholding the commandments and by being straightforward. You shall observe GOD, that you may succeed.
8418 - And the moon and its phases.
The natural question then what is the definition of phases?
From science and through observation we know that the moon orbits around the Earth. An observer on the Earth sees the starting phase of moon (new moon) when the moon is in-between the Earth and the sun. Then we see the half moon, full moon, half moon again and finally back to the starting phase.
The moon has phases because it orbits around the Earth and it is not a source of radiation. These are the conditions that must be satisfied to have phases (definition). Does sun satisfy these conditions, Ayman?
Ayman violates this definition when he says sun has phases. This is absurd. The sun doesn?t go around the Earth. The Earth goes around the sun.
Ayman should first define what phases or stages is? And then show it works for moon phases and the so called sun phases.
Another point to note is that there is no mention of ?sun and its phases? in the Quran. This is Ayman imagination.
The phases in 105 clearly belong to the moon. This is the straightforward and easy understanding of the verse.
bravo
At least someone understands.
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Welcome back guest,
Ayman never said that the sun has phases. if he did, please quote.
Sorry, but i'll have to say it again the waiter in the restaurant gives you a knife AND a "4 spears Fork" for you can cut AND pick the meat. If you understand from this example that the knife also has 4 spears, it's your problem not Ayman's .
Salam
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Peace Pro(a)gressive,
You need a new joke. Did nobody ever tell you that jokes are not funny anymore once they are overused?
So you also understood that the knife has 4 spears .?? !!!!! sun bravo bravo bravo
Please show me the phases of the sun and how they help us calculate the months.
Your example isnt really similar to what is in the Quran/your example is not relevant.
BTW, since when do knives have 'spears'?Anyways, discussing with you leads to nowhere. I understand your example and it makes perfect sense - however it is not relevant, since the Quran uses moon and sun - read what I wrote above.
@ ayman
do you still think that "the Quran was revealed in the moon of Ramadan" (if that is what you think)?
Also, doesnt 'qamar' = moon? -
Peace Farida,
You are speaking out of ignorance. Even Sunni scholars readily admit that there was no pre-Islamic month called Ramadan. You have zero evidence of your claims. The term "shahr" is never used in any pre-Islamic inscription to mean "month". The word that was used in inscriptions to mean month is "warkh" or "yarkh". The great reading talks about "the scorching full-moon". There is zero evidence that Ramadan is a meaningless word as you would love it to be.
But what is mentioned in the great reading is a meaningful word. What you and other sectarians did is you took a meaningful word and then made it meaningless and named with it an arbitrary random month.
The Sunnis is as lost as you. If he loses track of time because he was stuck in the hull of the ship or he loses consciousness he would be completely lost. Like you, he is 100% dependent on the info from other Sunnis. It has nothing to do with the great reading.
Then be a decent person and honestly admit to the indisputable fact that your Ramadan is not based on the great reading and is based on following other sectarians, no matter what you call it (e.g., following the prophet, following Sahaba, or any other junk you imagine).
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
How arrogant you consider everyone ignorant except yourself and your cronies who seem to pop up out of nowhere to defend you every Ramadan and   strangely they sound so much like you though they claim not to be speaking English well.
Now, coming to your post, please give evidence for your source. Enough of speculations from you. I see that you have completely ignored my earlier post of today Reply #1213 on Today at 042925 PM ?. Why? Is it too difficult for you to understand or you are just in the habit of repeating yourself playing on the psychology that oft repeated lies become the truth.I see how much you hope to break the chain that somehow the followers of the messenger should lose track of time or their consciousness so that you could take over and enforce your false claim, but sadly for you this will NEVER happen. nope
17 81. And say "The truth has come and falsehood has perished. Falsehood is always bound to perish!"
peace -
You need a new joke. Did nobody ever tell you that jokes are not funny anymore once they are overused?
Please show me the phases of the sun and how they help us calculate the months.
Your example isnt really similar to what is in the Quran/your example is not relevant.
BTW, since when do knives have 'spears'?*Anyways, discussing with you leads to nowhere. I understand your example and it makes perfect sense - however it is not relevant, since the Quran uses moon and sun - read what I wrote above.
as long as you you keep asking about knives' spears and sun phases, you are right discussing with you leads to nowhere.
P.S i don't know any one of you personally. Neither you nor Br. Ayman, let alone Sister Farida. But i know exactly the sectarian traditions because my country (morocco) is known to be following the maliki sect, (Imam Malik is a sunni Celebrity) Although the Moroccan king proclaims himself as descendant of the prophet and claims to belong to the "ahl albayt" (wich is a pure chiiat concept). This stupid contradiction (you cannot be sunni and chiia at the same time) lead me to ask questions. And in order to answer these questions, you need to "free your mind" and overview the situation from outside. Before i started posting in this forum, i read almost every thread and every post, and believe me , i haven't any reason to be with you or with brother Ayman since the only achievement is to have the truth revealed. But since you appear, through your posts, that you haven't been able yet to strip off the Traditional cloths that you wear, and since Br. Ayman's posts don't present any lack of logic and all are quranically based, so... i already choose my side. This doesn't mean that i follow him blindly, nor that i reject you automatically, but...sorry...i cannot afford to listen to any absurdities anymore unless they are proven to be not.
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Anyways, discussing with you leads to nowhere. I understand your example and it makes perfect sense - however it is not relevant, since the Quran uses moon and sun - read what I wrote above.
as long as you you keep asking about knives' spears and sun phases, you are right discussing with you leads to nowhere.
P.S i don't know any one of you personally. Neither you nor Br. Ayman, let alone Sister Farida. But i know exactly the sectarian traditions because my country (morocco) is known to be following the maliki sect, (Imam Malik is a sunni Celebrity) Although the Moroccan king proclaims himself as descendant of the prophet and claims to belong to the "ahl albayt" (wich is a pure chiiat concept). This stupid contradiction (you cannot be sunni and chiia at the same time) lead me to ask questions. And in order to answer these questions, you need to "free your mind" and overview the situation from outside. Before i started posting in this forum, i read almost every thread and every post, and believe me , i haven't any reason to be with you or with brother Ayman since the only achievement is to have the truth revealed. But since you appear, through your posts, that you haven't been able yet to strip off the Traditional cloths that you wear, and since Br. Ayman's posts don't present any lack of logic and all are quranically based, so... i already choose my side. This doesn't mean that i follow him blindly, nor that i reject you automatically, but...sorry...i cannot afford to listen to any absurdities anymore unless they are proven to be not.
I understand..but sometimes 'going blindly against tradition' isnt the best thing. I take info from the Quran and I have no problem to follow it, even if it coincides with what the Sunnis believe/are doing.
@ ayman
I am looking forward to your response(s)
I'm out for today.
Peace -
Peace progressive ))
I see.. Thanks for the clarification. handshake
so 'falyasumhu' is literally "fast it"? Tree translations that I looked at have "fast therein" in them. Another one says "fast throughout it". Oh well..
The translation I was reading was probably not literal enough.
peace
yes , "fa-li-yasum-hu" means literally "so-should-fast-it" .
The three translations you looked at are exactly a pure example of sectarians and traditionalist trying to distort and twist the quranic meaning...It is because the translators knew that the sectarians were fasting the hole "month" of ramadan, that's why they were biased in their translation..(maybe they did it with very good intentions, maybe not..) but their point was to "fit with the practice".I think you, non-arabic speakers, should not lean on post-quranic translaters, and start to look for the real meaning of the arabic "key" words, their root and their multiple use and then choose the one that "fits the god's statement, rather than "fit" with the general practice.
salam all
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peace Sister farida,
Peace Ayman
How arrogant you consider everyone ignorant except yourself and your cronies who seem to pop up out of nowhere to defend you every Ramadan and ) strangely they sound so much like you though they claim not to be speaking English well.
As you can easily verify, i registred in this forum more than 3 years ago, and i only started posting 4 days ago...also my ip adress can make you sure that i am from morocco, so i am not a reincarnation of anyone else..
And yes, i still claim that i am not an english expert, and my english level is far below my french or my arabic. I do many efforts (dictionnary help, google, translation tools) to write posts with the minimum of mistakes.
I think you should show me more respect, and give me more credits instead of acting like any "brilliant sunni scholar" , with your method of always using verses from the great reading to "curse" and scare the "infidels" .Salam all
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peace Sister farida,
As you can easily verify, i registred in this forum more than 3 years ago, and i only started posting 4 days ago...also my ip adress can make you sure that i am from morocco, so i am not a reincarnation of anyone else..
And yes, i still claim that i am not an english expert, and my english level is far below my french or my arabic. I do many efforts (dictionnary help, google, translation tools) to write posts with the minimum of mistakes.
I think you should show me more respect, and give me more credits instead of acting like any "brilliant sunni scholar" , with your method of always using verses from the great reading to "curse" and scare the "infidels" .Salam all
Salaam
First of all I am not your sister, secondly one earns respect and you haven?t earned that from me. If quoting from the Quran makes me appear like a "brilliant sunni scholar" then I am sorry for you. However if your feel cursed or scared then maybe it?s time to seek forgiveness and guidance from Allah(swt).
peace
Btw I don?t care when you registered and why you stayed ducked for all this time; Not bothered -
Salaam
First of all I am not your sister, secondly one earns respect and you haven?t earned that from me. If quoting from the Quran makes me appear like a "brilliant sunni scholar" then I am sorry for you. However if your feel cursed or scared then maybe it?s time to seek forgiveness and guidance from Allah(swt).
peace
Btw I don?t care when you registered and why you stayed ducked for all this time; Not botheredwow sister farida.
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Peace,
Quote from Ayman ?On the other hand, taking "shahr" to mean "month" creates an insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility since "witnessed" is in the perfect past tense. In other words, you would have to witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it. This false understanding of "shahr" as "month" of course reduces the passage to complete nonsense and hence even the staunchest Sunnis and defenders of "shahr" as "month" are forced to admit that 2185 must be talking about witnessing an event (they claim is the New Moon crescent) and not a "month".?
This is the guy who produced the most contradictory article in the world. And here he is giving lecture on ?insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility?. The winner of the mother-of-all-contradiction article.
You have witnessed the month if you are in it a moment after its start i.e. right after the sunset of first day of the month. So what is the fuss about ?witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it?. What kind of nonsense logic is this, what an absurd understanding? No wonder he produced what he produced.
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Peace,
Quote from Ayman ?On the other hand, taking "shahr" to mean "month" creates an insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility since "witnessed" is in the perfect past tense. In other words, you would have to witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it. This false understanding of "shahr" as "month" of course reduces the passage to complete nonsense and hence even the staunchest Sunnis and defenders of "shahr" as "month" are forced to admit that 2185 must be talking about witnessing an event (they claim is the New Moon crescent) and not a "month".?
This is the guy who produced the most contradictory article in the world. And here he is giving lecture on ?insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility?. The winner of the mother-of-all-contradiction article.
You have witnessed the month if you are in it a moment after its start i.e. right after the sunset of first day of the month. So what is the fuss about ?witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it?. What kind of nonsense logic is this, what an absurd understanding? No wonder he produced what he produced.
Indeed, and he even tries to justify his nonsense with more nonsense.
Ayman, I'm still waiting for your response.
Have a great Ramadan, everyone! peace
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Peace progessive
Indeed, and he even tries to justify his nonsense with more nonsense.
Ayman, I'm still waiting for your response.
If you really read the 100 and more Ayman's answers althrough this thread, and then put his 9 or more arguments together in front of your eyes , then you'll notice that there's no need to ask for other answers.
if you disagree with him when he says
?On the other hand, taking "shahr" to mean "month" creates an insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility since "witnessed" is in the perfect past tense. In other words, you would have to witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it. This false understanding of "shahr" as "month" of course reduces the passage to complete nonsense and hence even the staunchest Sunnis and defenders of "shahr" as "month" are forced to admit that 2185 must be talking about witnessing an event (they claim is the New Moon crescent) and not a "month".? , then recap this with te other statements so the picture would be clearer to your eyes.
Zoomin' in too close to a jigsaw puzzle does not help see the picture as clear as if you zoom out (look from above )...For me, Ayman has already answered enough, and i am responsible for what i believe . So unless someone gives me ( or find it my self) a really logical theory that refute Aymans' summer solstice, i'll go on facing the retribution verses that farida always kindly remind me..
Salam
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Peace AW,
You are wrong, the start of the new era has nothing to do with the migration of the prophet. The era started on Muharam 1 year 0 but traditionalists say that the prophet's migration was 66 days later on 8 Rabi' Al-Awal. Even if Muharam 1 was the actual date of the migration, which is nothing but speculation anyway, then why choose this particular date? This is certainly nothing that is authorized by the god through the great reading. Some guy named Umar arbitrarily decided to choose this year and a certain month in it to start the calendar and it has nothing to do with hijra, the great reading or anything. Same goes for the arbitrary order of the months. So the sectarian Ramadan is 100% arbitrary.
Peace,
Ayman
peace,
Nobody said Muharram 1 was the actual date of migration. And it dont have to be either just because it is the 1st month/moon. Umar choose year 622ad cause it was the year the prophet migrated and i dont know what actual month ( or moon) and day the calender started ,only the year. Umar could have decided to start the calender in 1 muharram, 622ad, even thoe the prophet didnt migrate untill the 3rd moon of the year as they say. I dont see whats the big deal. And just because muhammad migrated in month( moon) rabi al awal, dont mean rabi alawal has to be called month 1 ( or moon 1); because then the late umar would be calling the 3rd moon the 1st. The months would be arbitary if rabi al awal was made to be month 1 because the phases of the moon would not be measured right. And there is no such thing as a " sectarian ramadan" unless some muslims start following you or using a solar calender instead of lunar.
All I know is that the years of the islamic calender are counted from the beginning of the hijra, sometime in the year 622ad. Therefore, the year 2000, for example, on the gregorian calender corrisponded to the year 1421 on the Islamic calender. The calender could have started on 8/ month ( full moon) rabi al awal/ year 622ad to my understanding. The only thing authorized by God is using the moon to keep track of the years and count. I assum umar decided to start the calender on day 8, moon rabi al awal, year 622ad. But thats my assumtion as of now. And either we or you are guided or clearly astray.
What does the start of the islamic calender have to do with?