Hot/"ramadan" Answer
-
Peace Farida,
You are speaking out of ignorance. Even Sunni scholars readily admit that there was no pre-Islamic month called Ramadan. You have zero evidence of your claims. The term "shahr" is never used in any pre-Islamic inscription to mean "month". The word that was used in inscriptions to mean month is "warkh" or "yarkh". The great reading talks about "the scorching full-moon". There is zero evidence that Ramadan is a meaningless word as you would love it to be.
But what is mentioned in the great reading is a meaningful word. What you and other sectarians did is you took a meaningful word and then made it meaningless and named with it an arbitrary random month.
The Sunnis is as lost as you. If he loses track of time because he was stuck in the hull of the ship or he loses consciousness he would be completely lost. Like you, he is 100% dependent on the info from other Sunnis. It has nothing to do with the great reading.
Then be a decent person and honestly admit to the indisputable fact that your Ramadan is not based on the great reading and is based on following other sectarians, no matter what you call it (e.g., following the prophet, following Sahaba, or any other junk you imagine).
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
How arrogant you consider everyone ignorant except yourself and your cronies who seem to pop up out of nowhere to defend you every Ramadan and   strangely they sound so much like you though they claim not to be speaking English well.
Now, coming to your post, please give evidence for your source. Enough of speculations from you. I see that you have completely ignored my earlier post of today Reply #1213 on Today at 042925 PM ?. Why? Is it too difficult for you to understand or you are just in the habit of repeating yourself playing on the psychology that oft repeated lies become the truth.I see how much you hope to break the chain that somehow the followers of the messenger should lose track of time or their consciousness so that you could take over and enforce your false claim, but sadly for you this will NEVER happen. nope
17 81. And say "The truth has come and falsehood has perished. Falsehood is always bound to perish!"
peace -
You need a new joke. Did nobody ever tell you that jokes are not funny anymore once they are overused?
Please show me the phases of the sun and how they help us calculate the months.
Your example isnt really similar to what is in the Quran/your example is not relevant.
BTW, since when do knives have 'spears'?*Anyways, discussing with you leads to nowhere. I understand your example and it makes perfect sense - however it is not relevant, since the Quran uses moon and sun - read what I wrote above.
as long as you you keep asking about knives' spears and sun phases, you are right discussing with you leads to nowhere.
P.S i don't know any one of you personally. Neither you nor Br. Ayman, let alone Sister Farida. But i know exactly the sectarian traditions because my country (morocco) is known to be following the maliki sect, (Imam Malik is a sunni Celebrity) Although the Moroccan king proclaims himself as descendant of the prophet and claims to belong to the "ahl albayt" (wich is a pure chiiat concept). This stupid contradiction (you cannot be sunni and chiia at the same time) lead me to ask questions. And in order to answer these questions, you need to "free your mind" and overview the situation from outside. Before i started posting in this forum, i read almost every thread and every post, and believe me , i haven't any reason to be with you or with brother Ayman since the only achievement is to have the truth revealed. But since you appear, through your posts, that you haven't been able yet to strip off the Traditional cloths that you wear, and since Br. Ayman's posts don't present any lack of logic and all are quranically based, so... i already choose my side. This doesn't mean that i follow him blindly, nor that i reject you automatically, but...sorry...i cannot afford to listen to any absurdities anymore unless they are proven to be not.
-
Anyways, discussing with you leads to nowhere. I understand your example and it makes perfect sense - however it is not relevant, since the Quran uses moon and sun - read what I wrote above.
as long as you you keep asking about knives' spears and sun phases, you are right discussing with you leads to nowhere.
P.S i don't know any one of you personally. Neither you nor Br. Ayman, let alone Sister Farida. But i know exactly the sectarian traditions because my country (morocco) is known to be following the maliki sect, (Imam Malik is a sunni Celebrity) Although the Moroccan king proclaims himself as descendant of the prophet and claims to belong to the "ahl albayt" (wich is a pure chiiat concept). This stupid contradiction (you cannot be sunni and chiia at the same time) lead me to ask questions. And in order to answer these questions, you need to "free your mind" and overview the situation from outside. Before i started posting in this forum, i read almost every thread and every post, and believe me , i haven't any reason to be with you or with brother Ayman since the only achievement is to have the truth revealed. But since you appear, through your posts, that you haven't been able yet to strip off the Traditional cloths that you wear, and since Br. Ayman's posts don't present any lack of logic and all are quranically based, so... i already choose my side. This doesn't mean that i follow him blindly, nor that i reject you automatically, but...sorry...i cannot afford to listen to any absurdities anymore unless they are proven to be not.
I understand..but sometimes 'going blindly against tradition' isnt the best thing. I take info from the Quran and I have no problem to follow it, even if it coincides with what the Sunnis believe/are doing.
@ ayman
I am looking forward to your response(s)
I'm out for today.
Peace -
Peace progressive ))
I see.. Thanks for the clarification. handshake
so 'falyasumhu' is literally "fast it"? Tree translations that I looked at have "fast therein" in them. Another one says "fast throughout it". Oh well..
The translation I was reading was probably not literal enough.
peace
yes , "fa-li-yasum-hu" means literally "so-should-fast-it" .
The three translations you looked at are exactly a pure example of sectarians and traditionalist trying to distort and twist the quranic meaning...It is because the translators knew that the sectarians were fasting the hole "month" of ramadan, that's why they were biased in their translation..(maybe they did it with very good intentions, maybe not..) but their point was to "fit with the practice".I think you, non-arabic speakers, should not lean on post-quranic translaters, and start to look for the real meaning of the arabic "key" words, their root and their multiple use and then choose the one that "fits the god's statement, rather than "fit" with the general practice.
salam all
-
peace Sister farida,
Peace Ayman
How arrogant you consider everyone ignorant except yourself and your cronies who seem to pop up out of nowhere to defend you every Ramadan and ) strangely they sound so much like you though they claim not to be speaking English well.
As you can easily verify, i registred in this forum more than 3 years ago, and i only started posting 4 days ago...also my ip adress can make you sure that i am from morocco, so i am not a reincarnation of anyone else..
And yes, i still claim that i am not an english expert, and my english level is far below my french or my arabic. I do many efforts (dictionnary help, google, translation tools) to write posts with the minimum of mistakes.
I think you should show me more respect, and give me more credits instead of acting like any "brilliant sunni scholar" , with your method of always using verses from the great reading to "curse" and scare the "infidels" .Salam all
-
peace Sister farida,
As you can easily verify, i registred in this forum more than 3 years ago, and i only started posting 4 days ago...also my ip adress can make you sure that i am from morocco, so i am not a reincarnation of anyone else..
And yes, i still claim that i am not an english expert, and my english level is far below my french or my arabic. I do many efforts (dictionnary help, google, translation tools) to write posts with the minimum of mistakes.
I think you should show me more respect, and give me more credits instead of acting like any "brilliant sunni scholar" , with your method of always using verses from the great reading to "curse" and scare the "infidels" .Salam all
Salaam
First of all I am not your sister, secondly one earns respect and you haven?t earned that from me. If quoting from the Quran makes me appear like a "brilliant sunni scholar" then I am sorry for you. However if your feel cursed or scared then maybe it?s time to seek forgiveness and guidance from Allah(swt).
peace
Btw I don?t care when you registered and why you stayed ducked for all this time; Not bothered -
Salaam
First of all I am not your sister, secondly one earns respect and you haven?t earned that from me. If quoting from the Quran makes me appear like a "brilliant sunni scholar" then I am sorry for you. However if your feel cursed or scared then maybe it?s time to seek forgiveness and guidance from Allah(swt).
peace
Btw I don?t care when you registered and why you stayed ducked for all this time; Not botheredwow sister farida.
-
Peace,
Quote from Ayman ?On the other hand, taking "shahr" to mean "month" creates an insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility since "witnessed" is in the perfect past tense. In other words, you would have to witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it. This false understanding of "shahr" as "month" of course reduces the passage to complete nonsense and hence even the staunchest Sunnis and defenders of "shahr" as "month" are forced to admit that 2185 must be talking about witnessing an event (they claim is the New Moon crescent) and not a "month".?
This is the guy who produced the most contradictory article in the world. And here he is giving lecture on ?insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility?. The winner of the mother-of-all-contradiction article.
You have witnessed the month if you are in it a moment after its start i.e. right after the sunset of first day of the month. So what is the fuss about ?witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it?. What kind of nonsense logic is this, what an absurd understanding? No wonder he produced what he produced.
-
Peace,
Quote from Ayman ?On the other hand, taking "shahr" to mean "month" creates an insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility since "witnessed" is in the perfect past tense. In other words, you would have to witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it. This false understanding of "shahr" as "month" of course reduces the passage to complete nonsense and hence even the staunchest Sunnis and defenders of "shahr" as "month" are forced to admit that 2185 must be talking about witnessing an event (they claim is the New Moon crescent) and not a "month".?
This is the guy who produced the most contradictory article in the world. And here he is giving lecture on ?insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility?. The winner of the mother-of-all-contradiction article.
You have witnessed the month if you are in it a moment after its start i.e. right after the sunset of first day of the month. So what is the fuss about ?witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it?. What kind of nonsense logic is this, what an absurd understanding? No wonder he produced what he produced.
Indeed, and he even tries to justify his nonsense with more nonsense.
Ayman, I'm still waiting for your response.
Have a great Ramadan, everyone! peace
-
Peace progessive
Indeed, and he even tries to justify his nonsense with more nonsense.
Ayman, I'm still waiting for your response.
If you really read the 100 and more Ayman's answers althrough this thread, and then put his 9 or more arguments together in front of your eyes , then you'll notice that there's no need to ask for other answers.
if you disagree with him when he says
?On the other hand, taking "shahr" to mean "month" creates an insurmountable logical absurdity and physical impossibility since "witnessed" is in the perfect past tense. In other words, you would have to witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it. This false understanding of "shahr" as "month" of course reduces the passage to complete nonsense and hence even the staunchest Sunnis and defenders of "shahr" as "month" are forced to admit that 2185 must be talking about witnessing an event (they claim is the New Moon crescent) and not a "month".? , then recap this with te other statements so the picture would be clearer to your eyes.
Zoomin' in too close to a jigsaw puzzle does not help see the picture as clear as if you zoom out (look from above )...For me, Ayman has already answered enough, and i am responsible for what i believe . So unless someone gives me ( or find it my self) a really logical theory that refute Aymans' summer solstice, i'll go on facing the retribution verses that farida always kindly remind me..
Salam
-
Peace AW,
You are wrong, the start of the new era has nothing to do with the migration of the prophet. The era started on Muharam 1 year 0 but traditionalists say that the prophet's migration was 66 days later on 8 Rabi' Al-Awal. Even if Muharam 1 was the actual date of the migration, which is nothing but speculation anyway, then why choose this particular date? This is certainly nothing that is authorized by the god through the great reading. Some guy named Umar arbitrarily decided to choose this year and a certain month in it to start the calendar and it has nothing to do with hijra, the great reading or anything. Same goes for the arbitrary order of the months. So the sectarian Ramadan is 100% arbitrary.
Peace,
Ayman
peace,
Nobody said Muharram 1 was the actual date of migration. And it dont have to be either just because it is the 1st month/moon. Umar choose year 622ad cause it was the year the prophet migrated and i dont know what actual month ( or moon) and day the calender started ,only the year. Umar could have decided to start the calender in 1 muharram, 622ad, even thoe the prophet didnt migrate untill the 3rd moon of the year as they say. I dont see whats the big deal. And just because muhammad migrated in month( moon) rabi al awal, dont mean rabi alawal has to be called month 1 ( or moon 1); because then the late umar would be calling the 3rd moon the 1st. The months would be arbitary if rabi al awal was made to be month 1 because the phases of the moon would not be measured right. And there is no such thing as a " sectarian ramadan" unless some muslims start following you or using a solar calender instead of lunar.
All I know is that the years of the islamic calender are counted from the beginning of the hijra, sometime in the year 622ad. Therefore, the year 2000, for example, on the gregorian calender corrisponded to the year 1421 on the Islamic calender. The calender could have started on 8/ month ( full moon) rabi al awal/ year 622ad to my understanding. The only thing authorized by God is using the moon to keep track of the years and count. I assum umar decided to start the calender on day 8, moon rabi al awal, year 622ad. But thats my assumtion as of now. And either we or you are guided or clearly astray.
What does the start of the islamic calender have to do with?
-
Peace AW,
Can you understand that calendars are manmade and "arbitrary" since they depend on which day/month/year they were started ?
This also is valid for all calendars including hebrew, gregorian AND islamic one, and no matter if this calendar is lunar or solar based .
Moreover, the order of months, as in my understanding, was never been always the same. A few re-arrangements were practiced from time to time. please (re-)check http//www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/The%20Islamic%20Jewish%20Calendar.pdf for better understanding.Salam all
-
A night of full moon, a night full of light, the night in which quran was revealed, quran is noor "light" in the darkness of ignorance. What is laylatul qadr? elektro
-
Peace AW,
Can you understand that calendars are manmade and "arbitrary" since they depend on which day/month/year they were started ?
This also is valid for all calendars including hebrew, gregorian AND islamic one, and no matter if this calendar is lunar or solar based .
Moreover, the order of months, as in my understanding, was never been always the same. A few re-arrangements were practiced from time to time. please (re-)check http//www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/The%20Islamic%20Jewish%20Calendar.pdf for better understanding.Salam all
Oh, so what do you suggest? peace
-
Oh, so what do you suggest? peace
Salaam
Let me tell you Anthony Wallace what quickduck suggests that if you use the quotes from the Qur?an then you are acting like a ?grown beard imam?. So We should look cool and use the word submitter instead of Muslim and use the word ?great reading? instead of Quran and learn from the pdf file research of Ben Abrahamson and Joseph Katz http//www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/The%20Islamic%20Jewish%20Calendar.pdf.This research is purely hadith driven, yet he considers it acceptable for a better understanding of how a few re-arrangements were practiced from time to time
peace -
I may know the reason why some are aggressive in the Ramadan thread.
Because they are fasting Ramadan NOW so they tend to be harsh with people who reject 'Umar's arbitrary Ramadan'.
Normal human reaction.
No need to worry.
Peace Rami,
Could I ask on what authority do you say that my month of fasting is 'Umar's arbitrary Ramadan', please state that source or apologise for you baseless accusations.
If you have become knowledgeable from PDF file research of The Islamic Jewish Calendar How the Pilgrimage of the 9th of Av became the Hajj of the 9th of Dhu'al-Hijjah. By Ben Abrahamson and Joseph Katz Then you are talking rubbish based on hadiths, check it your self from these excerpts below
There are no such differences of opinion with regard to the date of the Hijra as there are with
regard to the time when the call first came to Muhammad and with regard to the day and
year of his birth....... They know that birth of the prophet was not known yet they puts doubts into minds by their own suggestion]...during the time of'Umar ibn al-Khattab and it became necessary to have a calendar so as to fix the dates. TheCaliph, who was so well aware of the sunna of the Prophet and of his temperament, instead of fixing the standard from the birth of the Prophet, which heralded an entirely new chapter in the history of man or his death which had placed such a heavy responsibility upon the
shoulders of the Caliphs or some other event, he ordered the adoption of the Hijra as the
basic date for the Islamic calendar..And then on basis of this hadith
Shams al-Din Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Rahman al-Sakhawi (d. 902) in his al-I'lan bi'l-Tawbikh
li-man dhamma ahl al-tawrikh gives the following details about the origin of the Islamic
calendar "A report on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas states that there existed no era in Medina
when the Prophet arrived there. People came to use an era a month or two after his arrival.
This continued until Muhammad's death. Then, the use of an era was discontinued, and there
was none during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and the first four years of the caliphate of 'Umar.
Then, the (Muslim) era was established.? Umar is reported to have said to the assembled
dignitaries among the men around Muhammad "The income is considerable. What we have
distributed has been without fixed dates. How can we remedy that?" One answer came from
al-Hurmuzan. He had been king of alAhwaz. After his capture during the conquest of Persia,
he had been brought to 'Umar and had become a Muslim. He said "The Persians have a
(method of) calculation which they call mahroz and which they ascribe to their Sassanid
rulers. The word mahroz was arabicized as mu'arrakh, and the infinitive ta'rikh was formed
from it.
'Umar chose the strictly lunar calendar as the official calendar, and no intercalation
And the authors conclude based on their twisted understanding and source Although the Islamic Calendar has undergone two distinct changes (discontinued intercalation
and frozen commutation), is still possible to align the Islamic Calendar to its Jewish
counterpartYes I am fasting and that is not what makes me angry but unfounded accusations so I would appreciate if you produce your proof or else apologise.
peace -
Peace Rami,
Could I ask on what authority do you say that my month of fasting is 'Umar's arbitrary Ramadan', please state that source or apologise for you baseless accusations.
If you have become knowledgeable from PDF file research of The Islamic Jewish Calendar How the Pilgrimage of the 9th of Av became the Hajj of the 9th of Dhu'al-Hijjah. By Ben Abrahamson and Joseph Katz Then you are talking rubbish based on hadiths, check it your self from these excerpts below
There are no such differences of opinion with regard to the date of the Hijra as there are with
regard to the time when the call first came to Muhammad and with regard to the day and
year of his birth....... They know that birth of the prophet was not known yet they puts doubts into minds by their own suggestion]...during the time of'Umar ibn al-Khattab and it became necessary to have a calendar so as to fix the dates. TheCaliph, who was so well aware of the sunna of the Prophet and of his temperament, instead of fixing the standard from the birth of the Prophet, which heralded an entirely new chapter in the history of man or his death which had placed such a heavy responsibility upon the
shoulders of the Caliphs or some other event, he ordered the adoption of the Hijra as the
basic date for the Islamic calendar..And then on basis of this hadith
Shams al-Din Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Rahman al-Sakhawi (d. 902) in his al-I'lan bi'l-Tawbikh
li-man dhamma ahl al-tawrikh gives the following details about the origin of the Islamic
calendar "A report on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas states that there existed no era in Medina
when the Prophet arrived there. People came to use an era a month or two after his arrival.
This continued until Muhammad's death. Then, the use of an era was discontinued, and there
was none during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and the first four years of the caliphate of 'Umar.
Then, the (Muslim) era was established. Umar is reported to have said to the assembled
dignitaries among the men around Muhammad "The income is considerable. What we have
distributed has been without fixed dates. How can we remedy that?" One answer came from
al-Hurmuzan. He had been king of alAhwaz. After his capture during the conquest of Persia,
he had been brought to 'Umar and had become a Muslim. He said "The Persians have a
(method of) calculation which they call mahroz and which they ascribe to their Sassanid
rulers. The word mahroz was arabicized as mu'arrakh, and the infinitive ta'rikh was formed
from it.
'Umar chose the strictly lunar calendar as the official calendar, and no intercalation
And the authors conclude based on their twisted understanding and source Although the Islamic Calendar has undergone two distinct changes (discontinued intercalation
and frozen commutation), is still possible to align the Islamic Calendar to its Jewish
counterpartYes I am fasting but that is not what makes me angry but unfounded accusations so I would appreciate if you produce your proof or else apologise.
peaceI didn't read this article.
Your Ramadan is arbitrary! Your Ramdan is almost always a misnomer.
Have you wondered why the they call it Ramadan?
There is a reason and this reason doesn't go through the seasons.
-
Salaam
Let me tell you Anthony Wallace what quickduck suggests that if you use the quotes from the Qur?an then you are acting like a ?grown beard imam?. .....Only if you use them OFF topic. Everyone (including me ) can/must use quotes from the quran, but only in order to prove/disaprove a theory/understanding, Not for cursing and putting spells on people because they're discussing an issue with you. (read the forum rules).
Can anyone Tell me, who in this forum uses this kind of sentences in almost all of their posts
- Redeem or you will face an enorm Retribution
- Forget what you are thinking about, or you will end down in hell.
- God will curse you if you don't follow Farida's brilliant understandings.
3366 On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say "Oh, we wish we had obeyed God, and obeyed the messenger
3367- And they will say "Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path."
3368- Our Lord, give them double the retribution, and curse them with a mighty curse
3369-O you who believe, do not be like those who harmed Moses, but then God cleared him of all they said, and he was honorable before God.
3370-O you who believe, be aware of God and speak only the truth
3371- He will then direct your works, and forgive your sins. And whosoever obeys God and His messenger has triumphed a great triumph
3372 -We have offered the trust to the heavens and the Earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant
3373- So that God may punish the hypocrite men and the hypocrite women, and the men who set up partners and the women who set up partners. And God redeems the believing men and the believing women. And God is Forgiver, Merciful
17 81. And say "The truth has come and falsehood has perished. Falsehood is always bound to perish''.
If anyone sees that those verses are not OFF TOPIC, please tell me...
As long as you keep going this way , you'll always appear like a "grown beard imam" to me. Unless you are very sure about who/what God adresses in the underlined words above.
@Anthony wallace
what i suggest is what i already said in another post
1 - manmade inventions are not prohibited as long as they don't contradict the quranic teachings.
2 - calendars ( including sundials and vertical tall objects ignore are as useful as cars, watchs and computers in our daily life. but when it comes to religious matters (salat, fasting, hajj...) we should use the informations given in the quran. (you see farida, i can also use the word "quran" as well as "the great reading".3- God guides whoever he wills, and leads astray whoever he wills. euuuuh...sorry, this is fftopic
Salam