Women: Taraweeh at the masjid or home
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That is some Christians, it is no different in Islam with the traditionalist that follow the hadiths. So please do not lump the God-alone Christians with the traditional Christians they are not the same at all. Do I, go around telling everyone that ALL Muslims want to kill all Christians? or ALL Muslims want to treat women as a piece of crap? or that Muhammad couldn't read or write? No I don't. So please do not treat all Christians like those poor misguided souls that elevate others to the level of God.
Trust me, John, I know what you're saying, and I'm hearing you out. But Christianity is Christianity, no matter how it's twisted up or molded. It's still the same substance... If your church is so far from the religion of Christianity, then why do you call yourselves "Christians"?
Jesus never taught or condoned "Christianity", and he never accepted "Christians" as followers. There is absolutely NO LINK between Jesus and Christianity at all... So, if you claim to be a follower of Jesus, then why are you adopting the name of a radical, pagan religious sect? Wouldn't it make more sense to refer to yourselves by the name that Jesus and his followers called themselves? As I've already mentioned several times before, there is no salvation granted to the "Christians" at the word of the Qur'aan. Christians ("masihiyuun" are not mentioned in the scripture at all. Many people interpret the word "nasara" as Christians, but these are NOT the same thing, and that is not a fitting translation. Christianity is paganism, and that inadvertently means that Christians are pagans. There's no way around it.
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Trust me, John, I know what you're saying, and I'm hearing you out. But Christianity is Christianity, no matter how it's twisted up or molded. It's still the same substance... If your church is so far from the religion of Christianity, then why do you call yourselves "Christians"?
Jesus never taught or condoned "Christianity", and he never accepted "Christians" as followers. There is absolutely NO LINK between Jesus and Christianity at all... So, if you claim to be a follower of Jesus, then why are you adopting the name of a radical, pagan religious sect? Wouldn't it make more sense to refer to yourselves by the name that Jesus and his followers called themselves? As I've already mentioned several times before, there is no salvation granted to the "Christians" at the word of the Qur'aan. Christians ("masihiyuun" are not mentioned in the scripture at all. Many people interpret the word "nasara" as Christians, but these are NOT the same thing, and that is not a fitting translation. Christianity is paganism, and that inadvertently means that Christians are pagans. There's no way around it.
christianity is just a word! we are following the same religion!
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christianity is just a word! we are following the same religion!
Are you serious?! If this is how you feel, then you don't have a clear view of what Christianity or Islaam is... Christianity is polytheistic. If this is what you believe in, then yes, you ARE following the same religion as Christianity, with a different name of course. But as for me, I DON'T believe in Christianity, and I am among the "muslimuun" (peaceful submitters)...
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Are you serious?! If this is how you feel, then you don't have a clear view of what Christianity or Islaam is... Christianity is polytheistic. If this is what you believe in, then yes, you ARE following the same religion as Christianity, with a different name of course. But as for me, I DON'T believe in Christianity, and I am among the "muslimuun" (peaceful submitters)...
no man! I meant God alone christians like rev are following the same religion as us!
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no man! I meant God alone christians like rev are following the same religion as us!
I agree. And if he's part of the "God Alone" movement, then he's NOT a Christian, since Christians are NOT acknowledgers of this concept. The idea of "God Alone" is based on pure monotheism, whereas Christianity is based on "Christ". You can't have Christianity without Jesus, which means their system is NOT pure monotheism. It's that simple... If you took Muhammad out of the "manifesto" for Islaam, what would you have? STILL ISLAAM. The concept of "Al-Islaam" is not dependent on any particular prophet; it was Allah's system from the beginning. The concept of Christianity, though, wouldn't exist without Jesus. Therefore, if one man determines the existence of a religion, then it's a case of idolatry, since you're inadvertently idolizing that one man (or prophet)... Therefore, even in it's simplest form, Christianity is idol worship. If Reverend John doesn't want to be labelled among this group, then why does he call himself a Christian?
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Therefore, if one man determines the existence of a religion, then it's a case of idolatry, since you're inadvertently idolizing that one man (or prophet).
I'm not idolising an man (or prophet)! peace
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I agree with Ahmad. Sunnis are believing in One God, the 'Sunna' doesnt reject this idea. While in the Bible we can read things like 'In the name of a Father, a son and a Holy Ghost', i still cant figure out, how is this can deal with monotheism. I read that al-Hazali (or Ibn Sina) interpetated that statement in 'islamic' way, dont know is this true or not.
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I'm not idolising an man (or prophet)! peace
I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about followers of Christianity...
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Sunnis are believing in One God, the 'Sunna' doesnt reject this idea. While in the Bible we can read things like 'In the name of a Father, a son and a Holy Ghost', i still cant figure out, how is this can deal with monotheism. I read that al-Hazali (or Ibn Sina) interpetated that statement in 'islamic' way, dont know is this true or not.
Exactly. And regardless of the usage, there is NO WAY you can interpret that concept ("In the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost" in an Islaamic, monotheistic way. The Qur'aan addresses this idea in a monotheistic way, which is why it ONLY refers to the Basmallah ("In the name of Allah " it doesn't include any other people or deities alongside the One God. Doing so would be an example of polytheism and blatant idolatry.
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I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about followers of Christianity...
oh! then peace
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That is some Christians, it is no different in Islam with the traditionalist that follow the hadiths. So please do not lump the God-alone Christians with the traditional Christians they are not the same at all. Do I, go around telling everyone that ALL Muslims want to kill all Christians? or ALL Muslims want to treat women as a piece of crap? or that Muhammad couldn't read or write? No I don't. So please do not treat all Christians like those poor misguided souls that elevate others to the level of God.
But you are not Christian you are a Muslim in Arabic in English you can call yourself submitter if you think that you?re a Christian cause you are following the teaching of Jesus then do you think we should call ourselves Mohammaden nope no we are not Mohammaden we are Muslim only and if you still insist that you are Christian then & i suggest try to come more close to your God.
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Trust me, John, I know what you're saying, and I'm hearing you out. But Christianity is Christianity, no matter how it's twisted up or molded. It's still the same substance... If your church is so far from the religion of Christianity, then why do you call yourselves "Christians"?
Jesus never taught or condoned "Christianity", and he never accepted "Christians" as followers. There is absolutely NO LINK between Jesus and Christianity at all... So, if you claim to be a follower of Jesus, then why are you adopting the name of a radical, pagan religious sect? Wouldn't it make more sense to refer to yourselves by the name that Jesus and his followers called themselves? As I've already mentioned several times before, there is no salvation granted to the "Christians" at the word of the Qur'aan. Christians ("masihiyuun" are not mentioned in the scripture at all. Many people interpret the word "nasara" as Christians, but these are NOT the same thing, and that is not a fitting translation. Christianity is paganism, and that inadvertently means that Christians are pagans. There's no way around it.
The Christian religion is not pagan. Even traditional Christians (with whom I disagree) state that they believe in the one God and there is only the one God (I agree). They just say that God appears in three different ways (I disagree with this also). It does not say anything in the bible about the "God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" this is just a term to describe how they think of the One God. There are many people, like me, that believe in the message God gave through Jesus, this makes us Christian. We do not believe that Jesus was the son of God anymore than we are all children of God. We do not believe that Jesus was "God on Earth" and nor do most Christians, there is only a small section of Christians that believe that. There is a sect of Muslims that have elevated Muhammad to "God-like" so what is the difference there? Are you saying that Islam is pagan?
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Sunnis are believing in One God, the 'Sunna' doesnt reject this idea.
And yet, there are many "sunnis" who do ascribe partners to God (like Christians), knowingly or unknowingly. But God will not forgive such ignorance. This is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an.
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Rev.John, what sect r u talkin about?
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The Christian religion is not pagan. Even traditional Christians (with whom I disagree) state that they believe in the one God and there is only the one God (I agree). They just say that God appears in three different ways (I disagree with this also). It does not say anything in the bible about the "God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" this is just a term to describe how they think of the One God. There are many people, like me, that believe in the message God gave through Jesus, this makes us Christian. We do not believe that Jesus was the son of God anymore than we are all children of God. We do not believe that Jesus was "God on Earth" and nor do most Christians, there is only a small section of Christians that believe that.
This is completely false. The largest collective bodies of Christians are Catholic and Orthodox Christians, and BOTH of them view Jesus as an incarnation of God Himself. Both of them view God as "three people, united but separate". Both of them believe that Jesus died for the sins of humanity, and ALL Christians I know (and have ever heard of) recite their prayers "in Jesus' name", viewing him as the "only begotten son" of God... I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it's false. According to the prime doctrines of Christianity, "The Christian faith is essentially faith in Jesus as the Christ (or Messiah), the Son of God, the Savior, the manifestation of God to humankind (Immanuel), and God (Yahweh or the "Lord" himself." Disbelief in ALL of these things means that the person rejecting them is NOT a Christian... And by the way, according to the Hebrew Bible, Jesus couldn't have fit ANY of these descriptions, and ALL of these beliefs concerning Jesus are evidence of falsehood and idol worship. Other essential beliefs of all Christians, based on the Apostles' Creed, are (1) belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit, (2) the death, descent into hell, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, (3) the holiness of the Church and the communion of saints, and (4) Christ's second coming, the Day of Judgement and salvation of the faithful. Again, if you don't believe in these things, based on the doctrines of Christianity, then you're NOT a Christian.
You seem to reject nearly all of the fundamental Christian concepts. So, what makes you any more "Christian" than a Buddhist?!
There is a sect of Muslims that have elevated Muhammad to "God-like" so what is the difference there? Are you saying that Islam is pagan?
There is NO Islaamic sect that puts divinity on Muhammad, and there is NO sect in Islaam that claims that Muhammad died for the sins of anyone. There's NO Islaamic sect that alleges that Muhammad was raised from the dead or that he was born of a virgin woman... So, how can you compare this with modern Christian beliefs? You're asking what the "difference" is? There's PLENTY of difference. Like I said, even Sunni and Wahhabi Moslems attest to Allah's complete oneness, and they adamantly declare that He has no partners in His sovereignty. This automatically places them far ahead of Christianity, since Christians LITERALLY can't worship God without worshipping Jesus!
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There is NO Islaamic sect that puts divinity on Muhammad, and there is NO sect in Islaam that claims that Muhammad died for the sins of anyone. There's NO Islaamic sect that alleges that Muhammad was raised from the dead or that he was born of a virgin woman... So, how can you compare this with modern Christian beliefs? You're asking what the "difference" is? There's PLENTY of difference. Like I said, even Sunni and Wahhabi Moslems attest to Allah's complete oneness, and they adamantly declare that He has no partners in His sovereignty. This automatically places them far ahead of Christianity, since Christians LITERALLY can't worship God without worshipping Jesus!
But what about those that believe Prophet Muhammad (saw) will intercede on the behalf of Muslims? (I'm not talking about just pleading for believers, but doing more than that). Would that be elevating the Prophet higher than he should be elevated??
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But what about those that believe Prophet Muhammad (saw) will intercede on the behalf of Muslims? (I'm not talking about just pleading for believers, but doing more than that). Would that be elevating the Prophet higher than he should be elevated??
Peace,
Respectfully.I think that all sunnis believe that, they all say that messenger/prophet Muhammad will do what Christians think messenger/prophet Jesus is doing or has been doing. When you approach a sunni and tell him/her that thinking of messenger/prophet Muhammad as an interrcessor is the same thing what Christians doing with mesenger/prophet Jesus, they will say, no, you don't understand , messenger/prophet Muhammad is special because he is last.
One guy even told me that black cube is special even after i told him that messenger/prophet Ibraheem destroyed rocks. They see black cube as a special stone. It's happening. It's started.
Game Over.
Peace. -
But what about those that believe Prophet Muhammad (saw) will intercede on the behalf of Muslims? (I'm not talking about just pleading for believers, but doing more than that). Would that be elevating the Prophet higher than he should be elevated??
It's true that many Sunnis elevate Muhammad higher than they should, and most of them have a false hope of his intercession. However, no Islaamic sect specifically believes that their salvation rests with Muhammad. This is what Christianity has promoted, the idea that without Jesus, all humanity is doomed to suffer eternal torment and damnation. Muslims, like Jews, believe that all salvation is ultimately determined by Allah, while Christians reject this belief, saying that their salvation is completely dependent on Jesus' death (sacrifice), resurrection, and intercession... Yes, the Muslims who believe in the idea of Muhammad's intercession are in error, but they STILL can't be compared to Christians, who have completely strayed from the path...
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It's true that many Sunnis elevate Muhammad higher than they should, and most of them have a false hope of his intercession. However, no Islaamic sect specifically believes that their salvation rests with Muhammad. This is what Christianity has promoted, the idea that without Jesus, all humanity is doomed to suffer eternal torment and damnation. Muslims, like Jews, believe that all salvation is ultimately determined by Allah, while Christians reject this belief, saying that their salvation is completely dependent on Jesus' death (sacrifice), resurrection, and intercession... Yes, the Muslims who believe in the idea of Muhammad's intercession are in error, but they STILL can't be compared to Christians, who have completely strayed from the path...
Oh, I see. So now it is the Christians fault that some Muslims are wrong! You know, I have been working for years to try to bring Christians closer to Islam. It is attitudes like yours that have been preventing this. I thought I had found like-minds here. Obviously not. I think I will just take my leave from this site.