Prophet Muhammeds literacy
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Hello fellow muslims i was reading the quran and stumbled upon this verse "and thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand. In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted." 2948
Now i know it is mostly agreed that "ummy" in other verses refers to the prophet being unscriptured or unlettered but this verse seems to assert that the prophet could neither read or write until the Quran came to him and that his illiteracy is indeed proof of the Quran's divinity as the Sunnis claim. Am i right or wrong ? nope
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Hello fellow muslims i was reading the quran and stumbled upon this verse "and thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand. In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted." 2948
Now i know it is mostly agreed that "ummy" in other verses refers to the prophet being unscriptured or unlettered but this verse seems to assert that the prophet could neither read or write until the Quran came to him and that his illiteracy is indeed proof of the Quran's divinity as the Sunnis claim. Am i right or wrong ? nope
Peace,
Respectfully.961 Read in the name of your Lord who has created.
962 He created the human being from an embryo.
963 Read, and your Lord is the Generous One.
964 The One who taught by the pen.
965 He taught the human being what he did not know.Hope that helps.
Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
Hello fellow muslims i was reading the quran and stumbled upon this verse "and thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand. In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted." 2948
Now i know it is mostly agreed that "ummy" in other verses refers to the prophet being unscriptured or unlettered but this verse seems to assert that the prophet could neither read or write until the Quran came to him and that his illiteracy is indeed proof of the Quran's divinity as the Sunnis claim. Am i right or wrong ? nope
The context of the verse is regarding 'the previous scripture' which most probable are Tanakh (Torah and Psalm/Zaboor inside) and also Gospel.
Muhammad most probably were not able to recite / read the Tanakh and/or Gospel, since Tanakh is written in Hebrew and Gospel is written Greek. There were no easy to find Arabic Tanakh and/or Arabic Gospel during his time.
So YES MUHAMMAD IS ILLITERATE!
To be precise; Muhammad Is Illiterate In Hebrew or Greek! Cannot read/write Hebrew or Greek.
But he is well-versed to read and write in Arabic!
I believe many people in this forum is also as Illiterate as Muhammad in this case.. cannot read/write Hebrew and/or Greek.Salam / Peace
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I think it's always useful to check the translations given on quranix.com
You were not reciting any book before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
-Edip/LaythYou were not reciting any scripture before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
-The monotheist groupfor, thou hast never been able to recite any divine writ ere this one , nor didst thou ever transcribe one with your own hand or else, they who try to disprove the truth might indeed have had cause to doubt
- Asad
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Hello fellow muslims i was reading the quran and stumbled upon this verse "and thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand. In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted." 2948
Now i know it is mostly agreed that "ummy" in other verses refers to the prophet being unscriptured or unlettered but this verse seems to assert that the prophet could neither read or write until the Quran came to him and that his illiteracy is indeed proof of the Quran's divinity as the Sunnis claim. Am i right or wrong ? nope
The verse literally says
You were not used to reciting, before this, a book nor were you used to writing one with your right hand.
It's very clear that it means "now you recite this book and write it". Because he does recite this book. -
Peace,
Respectfully.961 Read in the name of your Lord who has created.
962 He created the human being from an embryo.
963 Read, and your Lord is the Generous One.
964 The One who taught by the pen.
965 He taught the human being what he did not know.Hope that helps.
Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
I think it's always useful to check the translations given on quranix.com
You were not reciting any book before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
-Edip/LaythYou were not reciting any scripture before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
-The monotheist groupfor, thou hast never been able to recite any divine writ ere this one , nor didst thou ever transcribe one with your own hand or else, they who try to disprove the truth might indeed have had cause to doubt
- Asad
And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit.
And thus have We revealed the Book to you. So those whom We have given the Book believe in it, and of these there are those who believe in it, and none deny Our communications except the unbelievers.
And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted.
The context was
- People Of The Book who had books (al-kitab) received/revealed before (Tanakh, Gospel)
- And Muhammad did not (able to) recite before Quran any of those 'before mentioned' books (as they're in Hebrew and/or Greek and requires special privileges to access it) or write / translate / transcribe the Tanakh, Gospel (as they're in Hebrew and/or Greek and requires special privileges to access it) with his hand thus he had no knowledge whatsoever about the content of Tanakh and/or Gospel. Otherwise people will say that Muhammad just copy and paste many contents from the previous books (Tanakh and/or Gospel).
- Thus the infamous "IQRA" / READ verse to Muhammad is relevant, because the writings shown to be read by Muhammad is in Arabic, the script and language which the particular human messenger named Muhammad understands..
Salam / Peace
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also check 255 'And they said ?Fictional tales of old! He wrote them down while they were being dictated to him morning and evening.?'
Another evidence from the Quran that shows Muhammad could write... in Arabic..
But not Hebrew, Greek or modern-day English..
He was illiterate in Hebrew, Greek and modern-day English.Salam / Peace
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Muhammad's freaking first command was read. How, then, in the hell, can he be illiterate? That's like God commanding him to Say! (which he commanded him many, many times to do in the Quran, hence by the way the OBEDIENCE to the messenger) when he's a mute. Stupid as hell, right? Because it is. Hope that cleared it up.
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peace
Just to clarify, i think a book in the quran isn't actualy a paper back/ manual- sorry as most people do understand that.
My two cents worth.
When an ordinery person suddenly starts preaching law and order its unusual/ new.
But if a person has been doing it for a long time then its nothing extra ordinery- right? in which case people can doubt as being devine intervention!
And he did claim to suddenly recieving devine orders which indeed did benefit everyone , and so there aught not to be the intervention of any doubters.
What is so difficult about being able to read or recite a book by any one.
lets see the following two ordinery translations.
Wama kunta tatloo min qablihi min kitabinwala takhuttuhu biyameenika ithan lairtabaalmubtiloona
Yousuf Ali And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.
424
Waalmuhsanatu mina alnnisa-iilla ma malakat aymanukum kitaba AllahiAAalaykum waohilla lakum ma waraa thalikuman tabtaghoo bi-amwalikum muhsineena ghayra musafiheenafama istamtaAAtum bihi minhunna faatoohunnaojoorahunna fareedatan wala junaha AAalaykumfeema taradaytum bihi min baAAdi alfareedatiinna Allaha kana AAaleeman hakeemanYousuf Ali Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
So should be something like;
And thou wast not reciting ordained (prohibitions) before this , nor wert thou enforcing them with thy right hand In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.
just my understanding though peace
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^so you agree he wasn't illiterate during the time of the revelation of the Quran? I hope so because the very first verse revealed (961) gives testimony that Muhammad was anything but illiterate. Sunni's live in a fantasy world though, and are looking forward to another that doesn't exist.
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I have extensive discussion on this issue in 19 Questions for Muslims Scholars and in the introduction of the Quran a Reformist Translation.
I think that the claim of illiteracy of Muhammad was made up with good intentions decades after Muhammad departed the fabricators wished to make the "literary miracle" of the Quran even more astounding by lowering Muhammad's intelligence quote. Furthermore, they even claimed that he continued to remain illiterate until his death. So, according to these storytellers, their idol was EITHER an idiot or a fraud. An idiot, since according to them he could not recognize the 28 Arabic letters while dictating a book for 23 years. Yes, the one who received a book that contains the instructions READ and WRITE was still unable to recognize the 28 letters in 23 years! If he was intelligent then he should have been an impostor, since he must have acted like an illiterate to fool people. Either way, it is a great insult to the intelligence or the intention of the great role model.
Besides, those sunnies and shiites who mimic every trivial thing allegedly experienced by Muhammad, such as growing one's beard and wearing green color, etc., should immediately start following his model of illiteracy. Illiteracy, according to them is Sunna!
Peace,
Edip -
Besides, those sunnies and shiites who mimic every trivial thing allegedly experienced by Muhammad, such as growing one's beard and wearing green color, etc., should immediately start following his model of illiteracy. Illiteracy, according to them is Sunna!
Peace,
EdipPeace,
Respectfully.I think and believe they should accept Islam, follow The Quran and ditch the "sahih" hadeeth books by Bukhary and Muslim. They should also shave, get dressed according to Time, lose plenty of weight, respect and LOVE their wives, as they should be loved, stop making babies to outnumber Christians and stop terrorising my favourite places in the world, i'm busy these days,lol.
Peace.
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A Read this!
M I can't read!
A Read.. this!!
M I can't! the script is strange !!
A Let me see.. oops.. sorry my mistake.. that was for the japanese messenger..
Now read this! This one is in arabic...
M Yes now I can read!Salam / Peace
rotfl LOL Good one! rotfl
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Peace,
Respectfully.I think and believe they should accept Islam, follow The Quran and ditch the "sahih" hadeeth books by Bukhary and Muslim. They should also shave, get dressed according to Time, lose plenty of weight, respect and LOVE their wives, as they should be loved, stop making babies to outnumber Christians and stop terrorising my favourite places in the world, i'm busy these days,lol.
Peace.
Well said Alen bravo
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Peace,
Respectfully.I think and believe they should accept Islam, follow The Quran and ditch the "sahih" hadeeth books by Bukhary and Muslim. They should also shave, get dressed according to Time, lose plenty of weight, respect and LOVE their wives, as they should be loved, stop making babies to outnumber Christians and stop terrorising my favourite places in the world, i'm busy these days,lol.
Peace.
The day they do that is the all the day people in congress decide to grow beards, where turbans, use 'miswaks' instead of toothbrushes, wear sandals and shout ALLAHU AKBAR! at meetings.
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The day they do that is the all the day people in congress decide to grow beards, where turbans, use 'miswaks' instead of toothbrushes, wear sandals and shout ALLAHU AKBAR! at meetings.
Peace,
Respectfully.I know, maybe on September, 31st, 2012 it will happen,
But there is one thing i wish for The Congress - i wish, hope and pray that some Muslims from this forum (US-born citizens) become senators and later even the president, God willing.I'd love to see the US president to be a woman. A black woman. A black, Muslim woman. Tall, long hair and little similar to Angela Bassett. She looks tough.
Peace.