Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Salam progressive
i also (like you did) used dictionnaries to find that "shahr" means full moon.handshake
Note the IF in my last post.
BTW according to PRL, the root of 'shahr' can mean 'full moon' AND 'month' (among other things).
Peace peace
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That's what i am doing, answering, not cheerleading ignore
Then answer my prior post not run away like that fly posting nonsense as this...
3- hence, "the hot-scorching-big-obvious-reddish-full moon" ie. "shahr Ramadan" is unique because it happens only once in a year, after the summer solstice. the reddish big full moon of December misses at least one important attribute "hot-scorching"...am i clear enough ?
i thought some people on this forum had problems with understanding arabic, but now i see that they had big problems with english as well ((((((((((
YOU MISSED THIS BIG ONE LAST YEAR 3 DAYS BEFORE THE SOLSTICE!
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htm
On Wednesday night, June 18th, step outside at sunset and look around. You'll see a giant form rising in the east. At first glance it looks like the full Moon. It has craters and seas and the face of a man, but this "moon" is strangely inflated. It's huge!
You've just experienced the Moon Illusion.
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/images/moonillusion/Kasaitis1_strip.jpgThe full moon which occurs sometimes 28 days after solstice will be a baby moon compared to the above.
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Salaam Samia,
Salaam Eid
Forget about using 7431 to prove any arguement because it's the verse in question.
(A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers).
If you mean that this verse is your proof, what does it prove? It does not even contain (she/it is).
No, put it all together, both are a remembrance...
7431... she/it is not except a remembrance to the human
Now give us your honest opinion of Ayman's assertion which lead to the above off topic...
2183 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu
O you those who believe, it is dictated on you the fasting.2184 waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu
?and on those who endure it -- obviously refers back to the fasting.2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu
?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it?While Ayman has it as?
?.so who witnessed from you the full moon, so he should abstain, the abstinence.So yeah a double negative, if your vision is good, you are outdoors in clear weather lucky to see the full moon then avoid the fasting.
Does the above logic look correct to you Samia?
Likewise Samia please apply logic to what was asked in numerous prior posts and tell us if this is correct...
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poorThe abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.
Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!
- Does he commence fasting? YES!
- Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
Peace
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Peace Eid, all,
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
This is a very good point and furthermore proves that 'shahr' means 'month'. Here you go
581 God has heard the woman who argues with you regarding her husband, and she complains to God. God hears the argument between you. God is Hearer, Seer.
582 Those among you who estrange their wives by saying to them "You are as my mother." They can never be as their mothers, for their mothers are the women who gave birth to them. Indeed, they are uttering what is strange and a falsehood. God is Pardoner, Forgiver.
583 Those who had estranged their wives in this manner, then they again repeat it, they shall free a slave before they have sexual contact between them. This is to enlighten you. God is well aware of everything you do.
584 However, he who does not have the means shall fast for two consecutive months before the couple may touch one another again; and he who is unable to do it shall feed sixty poor people. That is so you would acknowledge God and His messenger. These are the limits set by God. Those who do not appreciate have incurred a painful retribution.
584 Faman lam yajid fasiyamushahrayni mutatabiAAayni min qabli an yatamassafaman lam yastatiAA fa-itAAamu sitteenamiskeenan thalika litu/minoo biAllahiwarasoolihi watilka hudoodu Allahi walilkafireenaAAathabun aleemun.
Feeding 60 needy people equates to to fasting for two 'shahrs' ('shahrayn' (months), in the above case.
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Salaam farida
As I explained, I was following the thread closely,aka reading, albeit not participating.What new opinions were there? I was not talking about new posts nor new posters. And I was definitely not put off by Ayman's posts. The pleasure is mine )Salaam Samia
Now you too are playing Ayman's game asking me to spell out for you ...naughty naughty nope
However, it seems you did not understand my post. I liked your rendition on "sana" and "3aam" as defined by natural events (harvest and flood) not name nor number of days. Same for day (sun/sunrise-sunset - darkness), again no name or number of hours.Then suddenly a month with a name and anumber of days? Only one month? Why didn't we have the name of the month of hajj.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we are required to fast a lunar month, which started with the first event of Ramadan (hottest time) when the Qur'an was revealed. This month drifts each year by 11 days (or 12 days in case of leap year). Approximately every 33 years it completes its cycle, returning to the position it had when the Qur?an was first revealed, and that is when we are to seek the night of power.
So seeking Leilat Al Qadr is linked to hot weather, as the Quran was revealed, on that night, in the phase of the cycle where that night falls in the month of hot weather.
Read again word for word and you will find that Ramadan is only mentioned with regard to the revelation of the Qur?an2185 ?A month, marked by heat, in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion
Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein.......? this section is about the month that comes once in every 12 moon cycles.(like a birthmonth) The complete count is from crescent to crescent from birth to death that is the most natural cycle and there is no other explanation what so ever.
Why didn't we have the name of the month of hajj
Because hajj is not linked to any special divine event; rather it's a yearly event just like our moon/month of fasting, which has with time become known as Ramadan.
Etymology was of course noticed by me and I think you mentioned it in more than a post.
yes
Even the etymology of month starts with the noun "moon" not crescent.The "th" serves as "relative to/ related to" as in "sixth" for example. It did not start with "crescent", so, as in Arabic, it has nothing to do with crescent nor with number of days
@ quickduck and all
We should not worry about pre-Quranic language as we follow the language mentioned in the great reading and the English term ?full moon? is not the term used in Arabic, or in any language associated with Arabic, like Urdu.(fusion of mainly Arabic, Persian and Sanscrit)In Urdu month and moon is also referred to as Ashahra.(3hahra) The cycle is mainly divided into three parts Awwal Ashahra, Thanni Ashahra and Aakhri Ashahra. The term ?full moon? has no basis in the Qu?an. Ayman too acknowledged that English, is not a language mentioned in the great reading.
Reply #858 on Page 58
Whether we like it or not we all use ?extra-Quranic sources?. You just used a computer to type this and you used English, which is not a language mentioned in the great. As I said, it comes down to knowing the limitations of the various other sources. What I also found out is that the sources that are truthful have never contradicted the great reading .However, my question is How can you prove that a month called Ramadan is what God is talking about? Where did you get it when it was never mentioned in any of the previous scriptures, nor had any other "month" been mentioned before,nor do we have any more information abou its position in the year,its number of days...?
Why would a people call a month (scorching) when it's as scorching as well as cold as any other month?I think I?ll leave it to you to ponder on this point. You never know; one day you may be able to come up with substantial evidence to prove us wrong in following the order of the months firmly established by the Prophet during his stay with us (previous generation)..
I just hope that you honestly try to give it a little thought Why are we in a mess every year because no one is able to see the "crescent"? .
nope Not Me but ?they? are in a mess every year, not because no one is able to see the "crescent", but simply because they rely on disunited corrupt Imams whose strings are pulled by different powers at the top. As for me I just follow the movement of the moon, according to the latest technology, and that is absolutely fine with me, as there is no requirement for everyone to physically witness the crescent.
Also think of the night the quraan was descended.The time we are supposed to fast was mainly chosen for this event why start fasting a couple or triple of weeks earlier,and then just guess, if we even think about it, which night is that one better than a thousand moons? Traditioalists do not know it nor care about it tenth as much as they care about the "month of Ramadan"
Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous has always been associated with something like the birth of a child, or death or the beginning of married life, so the middle moon, 1/2 moon cannot mean Shahra.
Once the new moon is witnessed we have arrived in that month/moon/shahr. Those who believe in literally witnessing the moon can do so if they wish and those who are unable to see are present in that month which is equal to witnessing as per verses 4120, 21, 22, it is confirmed that the skin is capable of witnessing and will testify(DNA prints verify that)
And most of all, why would God link the hajj with crescents and not fasting, yet traditionalists, and unfortunately you, link fasting to crescents and not hajj?
pr Bless you Samia for solving the riddle question in an appropriate manner and now I understand what Dr Ayman meant in his bold scripts crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".
Reply #1307 & Reply #1310 on September 01, 2009, 072910 AM page 88And of course his blabbing I guarantee that you will NEVER be able to answer. )
If only he could be as civil as you this issue would have been resolved looooong time ago. '(
I asked myself this question when I was just a kid and could understand the logic and planning behind it hail"God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship" from (2185)
Hajj is an obligation only for those who can afford it and it requires travelling to a certain destination. There is no requirement to start it from the crescent because Allah(swt) did not want to cause hardship for those who needed time to travel to a far off place.
If Hajj was to start straight away after sighting the crescent, based on the same principle of witnessing the moon, as in Ramadan, then imagine the difficulty and chaos caused for those who must travel from far off places.
You plan your holidays and travel well in advance, but when it comes to pushing your desire over logic you overlook the most obvious.
pr I do sincerely hope you pay attention to the nature of God who is the best of planners.
Ps Now please tell your friend Dr Ayman to go and stick his head in the sand.
? You are a lawyer and I expect from a lawyer to start from uncertainty, and work their way forward, not the other way round
Since you mentioned the Lawyer, allow me to educate you; Samia a trespass is a trespass; you cannot sneak into a premises from the backdoor with the excuse that the notice was only displayed in the front yard.
So no fiddling as per 936, 37.
936. The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record......
937 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; , thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people.
peace -
Peace Eid,
The point to this pointless exercise is you avoiding to answer how to fast a full-moon.
No the point is that all your arguments are from ignorance. Even an illiterate knows the basics such as the difference between masculine (he/"huwa" and feminine pronouns (she/"hiya" and that they refer to masculine and feminine objects. You have not even reached that level. You are acting like a baby who is still learning "dada" and "mama" but doesn't know pronouns and frankly speaking I am not in the mood for babysitting so don't continue sliding this slippery slope and have the courage to admit that you were wrong otherwise you will lose whatever little credibility you still have and changing your screen name will not help.
2183 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu
O you those who believe, it is dictated on you the fasting.
2184 waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu
?and on those who endure it -- obviously refers back to the fasting.
2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu
?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it?
While you have it as?
?.so who witnessed from you the full moon, so he should abstain, the abstinence.Both hu refer back to "the fasting that was dictated on you." This is because there are many types of abstinances. In this case, what was dictated on us is "the fasting of the complete count of a few days".
So yeah a double negative, if your vision is good, you are outdoors in clear weather lucky to see the full moon then avoid the fasting.
Likewise apply what was asked in the prior post...
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor
The abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.
Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!Where does it say "the abstinence of one full-moon"? In 2185, like in 2184, the "hu" refers back to "the abstinence that was dictated on you".
- Does he commence fasting? YES!
- Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
You are again speaking from ignorance. Fortunately, only Progressive1993 buys such arguments . There is no such thing as a 11 relation between feeding the poor and days of abstinence. You obviously never read 589 where feeding 10 poor equates to 3 days of fasting (i.e., 3.331). I guess we won't be hearing this nonsense from you again.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Progressive1993,
This is a very good point and furthermore proves that 'shahr' means 'month'. Here you go
581 God has heard the woman who argues with you regarding her husband, and she complains to God. God hears the argument between you. God is Hearer, Seer.
582 Those among you who estrange their wives by saying to them "You are as my mother." They can never be as their mothers, for their mothers are the women who gave birth to them. Indeed, they are uttering what is strange and a falsehood. God is Pardoner, Forgiver.
583 Those who had estranged their wives in this manner, then they again repeat it, they shall free a slave before they have sexual contact between them. This is to enlighten you. God is well aware of everything you do.
584 However, he who does not have the means shall fast for two consecutive months before the couple may touch one another again; and he who is unable to do it shall feed sixty poor people. That is so you would acknowledge God and His messenger. These are the limits set by God. Those who do not appreciate have incurred a painful retribution.
584 Faman lam yajid fasiyamushahrayni mutatabiAAayni min qabli an yatamassafaman lam yastatiAA fa-itAAamu sitteenamiskeenan thalika litu/minoo biAllahiwarasoolihi watilka hudoodu Allahi walilkafireenaAAathabun aleemun.
Feeding 60 needy people equates to to fasting for two 'shahrs' ('shahrayn' (months), in the above case.You might want to read 589 and then be mature enough to admit it when you are wrong.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaam Samia,
No, put it all together, both are a remembrance...
7431... she/it is not except a remembrance to the human
Salaam Eid
(7431... she/it is not except)
What does "she/it is" refer to? It cannot refer to since it precedes it. This is against universal grammar of linguistics.
is not exclusively linked to the qur'aan. It's mentioned in the quraan several times with no relation to itverse 3843
And We gave him his people, and doubled their number,- as a Grace from Ourselves, and a thing for commemoration, for all who have Understanding.
Now give us your honest opinion of Ayman's assertion which lead to the above off topic...
2183 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu
O you those who believe, it is dictated on you the fasting.2184 waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu
?and on those who endure it -- obviously refers back to the fasting.2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu
?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it?While Ayman has it as?
?.so who witnessed from you the full moon, so he should abstain, the abstinence.If we see it as "linguistically ambiguous" because two m.s nouns precede it,we have to find a reason to support one understanding against the other. For example, if you say The national banks conference this is an "ambiguous" sentence unless you can prove whether "national" refers to banks or conference. The almost equal nearness of the adjective to both nouns causes this ambiguity.
Back to your question In such a case I would personally say it refers to "shahr" since it's the nearest singular masculine to the pronoun.My answer to the remainder of your post will follow.
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Peace Progressive1993,
You might want to read 589 and then be mature enough to admit it when you are wrong.
Peace,
Ayman
OMG... what is wrong with your inference/deduction/argumentation/logic?!?! You have proven them to be very bad in your last few posts...
589 and 581-4 are talking about different things, hence there are different methods of redeeming oneself. Are you trying to suggest that there is a contradiction in the Quran?
It is an undeniable fact, that one can fast for 2 'shahrs' (months) or feed 60 if in the situation described in 581-4.
Ayman, your theory is a like a bad word...
1426 The example of a bad word is like a tree which has been uprooted from the surface of the earth, it has no stability.
I also would like to add that you have yet failed to give proofs of monotheists in the past fasting after having witnessed 'the full moon of scorching heat'.
I think you dont want to respond to my post with red and blue because I have shown you evidence from teh OT that people in Israel fasted in the 9th month of a lunar calendar... wait.. isnt Ramadan the ninth month of the Islamic Lunar Calendar? hmm
From http//www.submission.org/fasting-bible.html
"And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem." This is not a special fast proclaimed by a religious ruler, because this particular king was wicked. Nevertheless, he did follow the formality of what was practiced the month of fasting. The time given for this fasting is stated to be the ninth month.
The season of the fast in this particular year, thought by many scholars to be 604 B.C., is stated to be in the winter. Jeremiah 3622, "Now the king sat in the winter house in the ninth month and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him." Now the present Jewish calendar adds a thirteenth month from time to time to match the solar year, so that the ninth month of the civil year (used in the dates of kings' reigns) falls in May or June, summer in Palestine. If we project the lunar calendar presently used in the Middle East back in history, we find that the ninth month falls in November of the year 604 B.C. It appears that during Bible times a purely lunar calendar was used, and the ninth month was a month of fasting.
Lets see if you continue ignoring..
peace
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In Urdu month and moon is also referred to as Ashahra.(3hahra) The cycle is mainly divided into three parts Awwal Ashahra, Thanni Ashahra and Aakhri Ashahra.
my dear
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Salaam again Samia & everyone,
In this thread from page 13 I have been raising the question of the blind being excluded, in Ayman?s theory of fasting based on physically witnessing the moon and so far I have not heard you view on this. Go to Ref page 16
my post Reply #230 on September 08, 2008, Ayman?s Reply #234 on September 08,Finaly my Q in AW Reply #239 on September 08, 2008, 054000 AM page; 16
AWThere is no punishment for not fasting. But there is a reward for it.
Me And what about a blind person who is barred from receiving such a reward?
Ayman finally obliged me with his reply Page 17, Reply #242 on September 08,
You are the only one here barring them. What do you have against blind people?
They are certainly not barred but they are not obligated to fast. I hope that you can see the difference. Peace,AymanAfter that Ayman transferred his job to truthseeker11 who ignored my question and just took over Ayman?s mantra until page 30 Reply #440 on September 17, 2008 He wrote this condescending reply regarding the blind
- You are confusing "witnessing" with "trusting/believing". News can be wrong too. The blind man will be trusting/believing someone else who is giving or printing the news and that cannot be classified as witnessing.
After this reply everyone has ignored these very valuable people of our world ?the blind.?
Now it?s my turn just one question
So far I have not heard what Samia has to say about the blind not being obliged to fast ???Let me recap The argument was ?how can one witness a month?? so it must, here, imply the scorching moon, "shahr ramadan". And ?those among you who witnessed?. Excludes all who fail to physicaly see the scorching moon, "shahr ramadan". WHICH OF COURSE EXCLUDES THE BLIND EVEN IF THEY ARE MORE EAGER TO FAST THAN THE REST.
I see that you definitely believe that God did not disapprove of you because of menstruation, yet you assume this same God would exclude the blind from his design when it comes to fasting and the night of power?
I know my God does not leave out those without sight; those who are blinded by their desires are another matterBefore I go let me draw your attention to a very good discussion going on http//freeminds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598988.msg220254#msg220254
Your original forum member Siki raised very good question;
Isnt 56-79 talking about, "Grasping the real spirit/message within quran by only those who have a pure heart? or , you think it is physically touching/holding the written/printed script?And don"t tell me that women going through periods cant touch/read quran?
we need to sort this out. siki
Reply #8 on Yesterday at 073001 PM
salam!Do you mean to say that menstruating women cannot touch the quran (for which wadu is not obligatory) but can pray which requires wadu? In my opinion something is not right here.
What you are saying regarding "prohibition on physically touching quran in state of "Jannaba" , I am not too sure about it , let us invite some more views.siki Reply #11 on Today at 042547 AM
Your friend there surly understands the nature of offence towards women and I am sure you too are familiar with humiliation; a woman forbidden to fast or pray due to menstruation may feel.
Your lot have a funny logic!368 We have placed shackles around their necks, up to their chins, so that they are forced in direction.
36;9 And We have placed a barrier in front of them, and a barrier behind them, thus We shielded them so they cannot see.
3610 And whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.peace
Thanks RH for putting it in Urdu properly ;D
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Peace Farida,
You keep using the translation that uses "fast therein" to justify that "shahr" means a month.
I don't mind repeat it again
original arabic verse reads falyasumhu (fast IT ), not falyasum feehi (Fast therein)..
You are free to believe that this is a small useless detail, but sorry, it makes all the difference."IT" links to an EVENT (shahr) while THEREIN links to a periode (month)
We are so close to find the truth if only you admit this simple Fact. Unfortunatly, ....hopeless.
Salam
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Likewise Samia please apply logic to what was asked in numerous prior posts and tell us if this is correct...
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poorThe abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.
Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!
- Does he commence fasting? YES!
- Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
Salaam Eid
I do not see that there's a question of logic here. He can wait for the full moon and start fasting; just like a divorcee has to wait until her first menstruation and then count her days. And like the mestruating woman,he has to wait and not sleep with his wife until the fasting is over.
3- Has God told us that a day of fasting = feeding 1 poor? I can only agree with you if you show me this equation.Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!
Yes, that's why we need to be told, in this case, how many days to fast after having witnessed the shahr. If not, then there's no fasting. This number of days is usually not told when (two consecutive shahrs) are mentioned, since we already have a definitive period.
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Peace Eid,
In all likelihood, Umar and all the so-called Sahaba never met the prophet.
False! Read history, PERF 558, and inscription in 24 AH
http//dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/11/18/islamic-inscription.htmlOnce again you ignore to read the very links that you provide
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Where does it say in PERF558 or the inscription that the year is AH? Can you copy and paste the transcription and underline the word "hijri"?
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Where does it say that Umar met the prophet?
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Where does it say when the prophet was born or when he died?
It is obvious that you are only seeing what is in your head and not what is actually in PERF558 or the inscription.
This has ZERO to with it; summer solstice happened in the 12th month Dhu al-Hijjah in that year which was the year of the migration and the 1st month Muharram happened on July 16 that year.
Are you seriously that clueless? Why do you think the next summer solstice happened 12 months later? What is the new moon crescent on July 16? Is it the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice? YES or NO.
It has already been shown you that if you roll back PERF 558 only 10 years after the prophet (pbuh) left using new moon data the precise date of the start of new era which aligns perfectly with historical dates.
As I showed you before, this is a circular argument but you are too ignorant to see it and I am not going to repeat what I said. Go read my previous reply on this.
They knew the months (well known)
What months ?well known?? Please provide any evidence. If they were well known prior to 1 AH then please show a single manuscript or inscription dating to prior to 1AH which shows those months names. On the other hand, read the following pre 1AH inscriptions and see the well-known months mentioned
552CE (just 18 years before traditions claim the prophet was born)
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm
Month name Zu A'allan (notice also the word for ?month? is not ?shahr? but ?warkh?)326CE
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/namarah.html
Month name Kaslul.267CE
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.htm
Month name Tammouz (notice also the word for ?month? is not ?shahr? but consistent with the 552CE inscription ?yarkh?)and could have chosen the 1st month in any year to start the era; e.g. if they picked the year of PERF 558 then our friend would have written year 1 AH instead of year 22 which shows they used a lunar calendar at the time and obliterates the hot moon...
14-Jul 1. Muharram begins 7/16
...
28-Nov 1. Muharram 22 AH
The above data cannot be denied and no need to lie about receiving sheep at the end of the month.No the dates of the lunar calendar get pushed back by 1 month every three years. If they picked the year of PERF558 as 1AH for starting a purely lunar calendar then the 22 years difference would result in Ramadhan coming 7 months later and it would have been in what is now the month of Rabii Al-Thani in the spring and Farida and you wouldn?t be so cranky. )
I hope that you can now appreciate the complete arbitrariness of your manmade calendar.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
You keep using the translation that uses "fast therein" to justify that "shahr" means a month.
I don't mind repeat it again
original arabic verse reads falyasumhu (fast IT ), not falyasum feehi (Fast therein)..
You are free to believe that this is a small useless detail, but sorry, it makes all the difference."IT" links to an EVENT (shahr) while THEREIN links to a periode (month)
We are so close to find the truth if only you admit this simple Fact. Unfortunatly, ....hopeless.
Salam
Peace
Please lodge your complaint with these people,
Free_MindsA month, marked by heat, in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
I knew already that you cannot see beyond that
368 We have placed shackles around their necks, up to their chins, so that they are forced in direction.
36;9 And We have placed a barrier in front of them, and a barrier behind them, thus We shielded them so they cannot see.
3610 And whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.peace
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Peace Ayman,
we are off-topic, but i will not readily jump to conclusion regarding the close companions of Mohammed having met him if I were you.
Unless you have hard factual evidence, that is, and by the way 20 years is not such a long period.
So it is acceptable that the reporters like Bukhari & co are as easy to rule out as John, Mark, Luke and Paul in the case of Jesus, but
I will be careful with regards to Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali and Zeyd.
As for Abraha's stone, one single piece of evidence is not enough in my view.
Sometimes, we get blessed with "accidental" discoveries such as the Qumran caves where a lot of artifacts and scrolls were found, but alas hijacked by the Israelis (which is very strange as a good deal of those caves where on the Jordan side of the Dead Sea), and so a lot of the discoveries (most probably the most controversial ones, as they include writings of the Pentateuch at least 1000 years older than the oldest records we have) are now off limits.
So until either there is archaeological and forensic historical works being systematically done on these matters, we are currently condemned to rely on crumbs we may find that transpire as side lines from research done on subjects of older studies not always very pertinent to our interest.
Peace
Nabil -
Salaam farida
So seeking Leilat Al Qadr is linked to hot weather, as the Quran was revealed, on that night, in the phase of the cycle where that night falls in the month of hot weather.
Read again word for word and you will find that Ramadan is only mentioned with regard to the revelation of the Qur?an2185 ?A month, marked by heat, in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion
Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein.......? this section is about the month that comes once in every 12 moon cycles.(like a birthmonth) The complete count is from crescent to crescent from birth to death that is the most natural cycle and there is no other explanation what so ever.
So the only description I know for this month is that it is "marked by heat". How can I witness it then when this Ramadan is "marked by cold"? This will not be the "ramadan" described in the quraan. To respect its description AND keep the lunar calendar, I have to fast it every 33 years, just the way you suggest we should seek Leilatul qadr, which, by the way, is closely linked to "Ramadaan", however we understand ramadaan.
one day you may be able to come up with substantial evidence to prove us wrong in following the order of the months firmly established by the Prophet during his stay with us (previous generation)..
Why are you sure that you are following what the prophet established for you when it's neither in the quraan nor in hadith which you do not even accept?
Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous has always been associated with something like the birth of a child, or death or the beginning of married life, so the middle moon, 1/2 moon cannot mean Shahra.
Once the new moon is witnessed we have arrived in that month/moon/shahr. Those who believe in literally witnessing the moon can do so if they wish and those who are unable to see are present in that month which is equal to witnessing as per verses 4120, 21, 22, it is confirmed that the skin is capable of witnessing and will testify(DNA prints verify that)
You missed one important definition volumenous wide woman.
Who is talking of middle,1/2 moon? Even this 1/2moon is more easily "detected" than a crescent
All these events do not need an extra way of declaration.You know them without using a detective (telescope in your case to see the crescent).
As for the witnessing of skins, this is mentiond in context of the Day of Judgeent, so it concerns God, not humans. I do not need to say that God describbes Himself as "Shaheed". You cannot say that you "tashhad" a skin, to mean that you can know its DNA! Even with a microscope nope"God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship" from (2185)
Hajj is an obligation only for those who can afford it and it requires travelling to a certain destination. There is no requirement to start it from the crescent because Allah(swt) did not want to cause hardship for those who needed time to travel to a far off place.
If Hajj was to start straight away after sighting the crescent, based on the same principle of witnessing the moon, as in Ramadan, then imagine the difficulty and chaos caused for those who must travel from far off places.
You plan your holidays and travel well in advance, but when it comes to pushing your desire over logic you overlook the most obvious.
Are you really convinced by this poor argument?
The verse I asked you about does not have a commandment requiring quoting 2185. It's a question and answer. Why can't we equally use 2185 when we believe that God is "commanding us to witness a crescent"? In fact, hajj is not a "religious" obligation, just like timing for people in their affairs. Since you know it's a hardship to people to observe the crescent, and God does not want to bring us hardship, it's more logical that He does not make it a condition on a religious obligation. Your logic is really contradictory here. This is just like traditionalists circular arguemnet when asked why women have to abstinate from fasting and salaat when God answered a question to people concerning menustations and did not mention abstention from salaat nor fasting- The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record.
Since you know that a "sana/ year" is defined according to the quraan from harvest to harvest, and since the 12"months" of the lunar calender do not fulfill this definition, therefore the 12 "months" in God's record mentioned in this verse do not equal a lunar year.
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Peace
Please lodge your complaint with these people,
Free_MindsA month, marked by heat, in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
I knew already that you cannot see beyond that
368 We have placed shackles around their necks, up to their chins, so that they are forced in direction.
36;9 And We have placed a barrier in front of them, and a barrier behind them, thus We shielded them so they cannot see.
3610 And whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.peace
No matter if this translation is RK's , Free-minds', Ayman's or Farida's . therein = feehi . hence, this translation is false and should be corrected.
Can you do me a favor ? you seem to have a huge knowledge on forum matters, can you please tell free-minds translators to correct this . Of course if you agree that therein = feehi .
I knew already that you cannot see beyond that
368 We have placed shackles around their necks, up to their chins, so that they are forced in direction.
36;9 And We have placed a barrier in front of them, and a barrier behind them, thus We shielded them so they cannot see.
3610 And whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.peace
Here comes the grown beard imam again, hallelujah !!
P.S if only the quran was revealed in URDU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Salam
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No matter if this translation is RK's , Free-minds', Ayman's or Farida's . therein = feehi . hence, this translation is false and should be corrected.
Can you do me a favor ? you seem to have a huge knowledge on forum matters, can you please tell free-minds translators to correct this . Of course if you agree that therein = feehi .
Salam
Peace
You do your own dirty work.
peace