Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace
As we know it, time is relative, however The Quran was revealed to start with to communities in the middle east.
So when it was descended on the ramadan full moon (Jerusalem time) to the Archangel Gabriel, who was instructed
by Allah to reveal it and make it memorised in stages by Mohamed and his group of believers.
This was a localised event, even if the Quran is meant for the whole of humanity.
Now how could you explain fasting nearest to the North Pole where daylights can either be inexistent or last months?
We will deal with these issues when we reach them, as the sectarians have already dealt with them with their own
"ijtihad".
For now, we need to accept that ramadan is a full moon, and it is the one after the summer equinox (which corresponds to the hot/scorching one) in the middle east where the Quran was revealed.Salaam
Nabsterand When you are ready to be tested say I Believe ...
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Peace
Wrong translation
Correct translation is
time is called "3iddan" because every time/period is limited and COUNTEDYou intentionally left the definition of Ma3dood by Maqayeesul lugha
- ( 4 / 22)
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3addo = Counting of anything .you say ,"I counted a thing /I will count so I am a "counter and the THING IS COUNTED.
Moreovere it says
- ( 4 / 29)
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al-3adeed means MANY
This is the definition of Ma3dood given by this dicitonary.
Regardssalaam brother
found any example yet to count an ajal? thanks
- ( 4 / 22)
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I think the obvious thing to do would be for those who disagree with the "full moon of scorching heat" etc theory, is to write a clear and detailed rebuttal, as an article. Ideally, with an alternative.
These things are not difficult to do, but it takes a special kind of person to do them. We shall see.
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Peace ayman,
my 'understand/not understand/need clarification' lists
(Note for the reader these are only things I understand/dont understand from Ayman's article - they dont necessarily represent my own position).
First off, here are the things I understand
- 'shahr Ramadan' = 'full moon of scorching heat'
- this full moon appears after the summer solstice
- the Quran was sent down during the night appearance of this full moon (laylatul qadr)
- the year is solar we should count 12 full moons in each of them, hence the calendar is luni-solar
- the crescents help us for the timing of the hajj, but also the fast, since it takes 10 days for the moon to go from its full moon phase into its crescent phase - the fasting and the hajj both take 10 days each.
- as exaplained above, the fasting is for 'ayyaman madoodatin', which means 'few days'. As per a hint from 7142, one can conclude that fasting is for 10 days.
- the count of the full moons in a year is 12. Although 13 might appear in some years, they shall not be counted, as per the command in 936.
- the restricted full-moons are cleverly picked from Summer to Autumn, since this is when many female animals are pregnant, and to kill one of them would mean to kill their potential offspring.
Things that I dont understand/need clarification for
- PERF 558 (a link with the contents of this documents and it's validity would be good)
- a clear and thorough exaplanation of why 1712 and 105 make tell us that the year is solar and that the calendar is to be luni-solar. Also, a good reason why we should count from solstice to solstice and the command thereof in the Quran. Why not from winter solstice to winter soltice, or from autumn equinox to the next, etc.? Why not count the days and have the lunar months are markers?
I have noticed something very interesting from your article, which might seem insignificant at first, but with the right connection to the Bible, it has some significance
The first full-moon of the restricted full-moons (the full moon of scorching heat/"ramadhan" is for abstinence while the remaining three full moons are for the debate. This gives people three opportunities per year to meet up for the "7ajj"/debate."
(note for the reader ayman changed his definition of 'hajj' from 'debate' to 'feast'
Connection to Exodus 2314 "Three times a year you shall keep/observe a 'hag' to Me.
If there is anything that I have missed commenting about, then please let me know.
I'm looking forward to your response,
Peace -
Peace belH
this one is easy, let the cheerleader captain answer No we count 12 full moons/not months between 2 summer solstices. And eventually skip counting the 13th full moon/not months to keep in sync with seasons.
i don't agree , look for any arabic text with the word "ma3doodaat" in it. then ask any arabic speaker to tell you how many does "ma3doodat" in that context means.
if i tell you that your days are COUNTED/ma3doodat, it means that there's something you should worry about.Congratulations...The above ENGLISH Words in your post are the TRUE Translation of the Arabic sentence above.
bravo
brickwall why arguing otherwise...Apparently you Agree to the Meaning of Maddodat to be COUNTED.
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Although "Babylon" is not a dictioary to search for classical meanings, but the result search for " " is "A few days", because it's still the used meaning. Try it for yourself on tis link
http//translation.babylon.com/Arabic/to-English/
Samia, I copied the following arabic words
Then I paste them in your above link to translate. The following are the results
"Your age days are numbered"
Not only me who thinks that Maddodat = Numbered and not FEW nor 3 to 10.
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Peace Ayman,
I really liked your article and think it is the best example of how to observe abstinence as prescribed by the Qur'an that I have heard so far.
From what I understand, if it says to abstain two 'shahr', we would abstain from the first full moon and end on the next full moon. The only question I have is that if shahr = full moon, why does the Qur'an mention the word consecutive to describe the two full moons in 492 and 584. If the word consecutive wasn't there, we would get the same meaning.
If shahr = month, then the word consecutive would make a difference because it is possible to fast two months that aren't consecutive. I don't see any way you can fast two full moons that aren't consecutive. I am just wondering because it is hard for me to accept that the word contribute to the meaning of these verses.
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Peace all,
When comparing two things, both should have the same attributes.
Now, God is comparing the Night of Decree against 1000 Shahar
973 The Night of Decree is better than one thousand Shahar.
973Thus, if the Night is a period of time, then the Shahar has to be a measurable Period of Time and NOT A Beautiful Image.
Therefore, Shahar CANNOT BE a FULL MOON Image but a MONTH.Peace
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Peace all
In setting up a calendar that will fit what the Quran advocates we need to follow the fitra (ways) that
Allah has set up for Nature, and they do follow a luni-solar calendar.
Another commandment is to listen to what is said and follow what is best, that fits in the many definitions
of the word shahar, of course, words can be overloaded with more than one meaning, and one of the
meaning of shahar is month, but how can you best measure shahar to obey the natural "fitra" of Allah on Earth?
Surely a Calendar that has no regard for the real seasons is not realistic.
We need a realistic calendar, that will also fit the meaning of the word ramadan, that will make sense logically
and scientifically (the Quran is a reasonable and intelligent and wise book) etc...
So I think the approach was sound, and we have a good work done, so instead of trying to keep on debunking,
I propose to the nay-sayers who are stuck in their blind traditions (and that is their test), to help in refining it, and making sure
it fits even better within the natural framework of seasons that we witness and that the Quran talks about at length, and that
cannot be accounted for with a purely only lunar calendar. -
Peace all,
When comparing two things, both should have the same attributes.
Now, God is comparing the Night of Decree against 1000 Shahar
973 The Night of Decree is better than one thousand Shahar.
973Thus, if the Night is a period of time, then the Shahar has to be a measurable Period of Time and NOT A Beautiful Image.
Therefore, Shahar CANNOT BE a FULL MOON Image but a MONTH.Peace
Peace
Absolutely true .
Bananas can be compared with Bananas but not with donkeys in any way.
Shahro Ramadhan al dhii unzila fihil Quran . Was the Quran revealed IN THE MOON
It is the month of Ramadhan (Time period) in which Quran was revealed not on the Stones of the Moon.
Actually unfortunately common sense is very uncommon.
Regards -
Peace all,
Now how could you explain fasting nearest to the North Pole where daylights can either be inexistent or last months?
and When you are ready to be tested say I Believe ...
Fast involves seeing dawns and sunsets;
Those living in constant day or night never see the white thread of dawn or the sunset -- they never fast...Begin?
Are you kidding?Hasn't it been established? The scorching hot moon won since the first few posts were made.
Established is that this is the easiest to refute; taken from the first few posts...
The restriction full-moons is counting a period spanning four full-moons starting with the full-moon of scorching heat/"ramadan". During that period, hunting wildlife is restricted and the gathering of the "7ajj"/debate takes place.
Right, seems the only animal the above restriction protects is wild pigs?
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/wild-pigs.jpg
After a gestation period of 112 - 115 days a litter of 3 - 12 piglets is born in the spring.
The young are suckled for about 12 weeks (i.e. solstice) before they are completely weaned onto food.Summer Solstice June 21, 2008
July 17, 2008 hot moon restricted #1 hot moon
Time Altitude Azimuth Fraction Illuminated
1930 0.4 122.2 1.00http//www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/research/2008/jul/hur-dolly-20080723-ir-loop.gif
http//www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/index.php?report=hazards&year=2008&month=jul#tropical
Bertha was the longest-lived July Atlantic tropical storm when it entered its 16th day on July 19. The second longest-lived July tropical storm was Storm Number 2 in 1960, lasting just over 12 days (Associated Press/BBC News).Aug 16, 2008 hot moon restricted #2
1910 1.8 107.8 1.00Sep 14, 2008 hot moon restricted #3
1910 14.5 106.2 1.00Oct 14, 2008 hot moon restricted #4
1910 22.1 90.6 1.00http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/arabian_oryx.jpg
The Arabian Oryx males reach sexual maturity at age 18 months; females as young as 12 months. The gestation period for an Arabian Oryx is 8 to 8 1/2 months and they typically give birth to 1 offspring at a time. The breeding season is all year, though heavy rains stimulate females to come into heat within a week.
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/afghanurials.gif
In their native habitat, mating season begins in September, where Afghan Urial Rams will select 4-5 ewes, who will give birth to one or two lambs after 5 months of gestation. That makes February when they are born after the restriction is lifted.
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/axis.jpg
Another feature of axis is that, being a tropical deer, they do not follow a seasonal rut. Axis Bucks can be found in hard horn and in velvet at the same time any time in the year, which also means that fawning can occur in any month.
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/Eland_family.jpg
The Eland diet consists of mostly grass, and they flourish in the Texas Hill Country environment. The Eland are gregarious and very gentle for a wild animal. They tend to breed year-round in the United States and their Gestation Period is 8 1/2 months.
American Bison ? a favorite served at a local restaurant when I visit Fermi Lab...
http//ed.fnal.gov/trc_new/sciencelines_online/sp_smr98/graphics/buffalo.jpeg
Mating season begins in July and can run through September. The female gives birth to one calf after about nine months (i.e. April, May, June).
In the mean time while half the globe fasts; those living south of the equator are free to gorge all day ? especially in Buenos Aires Argentina renowned throughout the world for its exquisite beef.
http//www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/int_argentina_buenos-aires/files/2007/06/asado.jpg
Perhaps "travel" south of the equator skip the fasting altogether like the full moons.
Peace
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Peace,
There are always exceptions.
In all "civilized" countries, there are in place hunting restrictions in certain periods of the year to protect
wild game, and by the way animals do adapt too, if you allow them a window of opportunity.
The solar calendar takes into account the tally of the seasons so that we keep track of the seasons.
Again the Quran was revealed in the Middle East so when it talks about when it refers to the time
co-ordinate then (i.e. Jerusalem time in my view).
In the south hemisphere they will adjust and fast in their summer.
In the North Pole, they can choose to fast in sync with say Medinah, this will then be a shura ijtihad matter like the sectarian ulemah
resolved it, same with other places where it is impossible to witness the first full moon after the solar solstice.
But we are not there yet, far from it. -
Peace
Absolutely true .
Bananas can be compared with Bananas but not with donkeys in any way.
Shahro Ramadhan al dhii unzila fihil Quran . Was the Quran revealed IN THE MOON
It is the month of Ramadhan (Time period) in which Quran was revealed not on the Stones of the Moon.
Actually unfortunately common sense is very uncommon.
RegardsAbsolutly true !! months can be compared to months and NIGHTS have to be compard to nights.
the night of measure = night of ramadhan full moon = night in which the coran has been descended, IS BETTER than 1000 other nights = 1000 of other full moons nights.
YOU GOT IT ! Great !!
Salam
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Absolutly true !! months can be compared to months and NIGHTS have to be compard to nights.
the night of measure = night of ramadhan full moon = night in which the coran has been descended, IS BETTER than 1000 other nights = 1000 of other full moons nights.
YOU GOT IT ! Great !!
Salam
Shahr is night or Moon ?
Your logic goes something like this little knowledge of an ignorant teachers who told the students "HEN means Darkness". One of those student was memorising this meaning at home. When his father heard ,father told the son that HEN is the name of a domestic bird.It is not DARKNESS.
Next day the child told the teacher that HEN does not mean Darkness but it is a domestic bird. Now teacher had his own Logic saying " When the hen spreads its feather ,is there not darkness below the feathers ?" The student said "yes it is".The teacher said "It means HEN is Darkness"
Use common sense.
Regards -
Shahr is night or Moon ?
Your logic goes something like this little knowledge of an ignorant teachers who told the students "HEN means Darkness". One of those student was memorising this meaning at home. When his father heard ,father told the son that HEN is the name of a domestic bird.It is not DARKNESS.
Next day the child told the teacher that HEN does not mean Darkness but it is a domestic bird. Now teacher had his own Logic saying " When the hen spreads its feather ,is there not darkness below the feathers ?" The student said "yes it is".The teacher said "It means HEN is Darkness"
Use common sense.
Regardsnight = time period between sunset and sunrise
Moon = Earth's only natural satellite and the fifth largest satellite in the Solar System.
full moon = a lunar phase that occurs when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun.
Now , full moon = the most obvious phase of the moon = marker = shahr.so please stop going in circles ! we've already discussed this 111 pages ago. if you dont agree, it's your problem...
P.S No one in this thread has said nor understand that "shahr " is the "moon", except YOU. so whether you are lying or you cannot read !
Peace
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night = time period between sunset and sunrise
Moon = Earth's only natural satellite and the fifth largest satellite in the Solar System.
full moon = a lunar phase that occurs when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun.
Now , full moon = the most obvious phase of the moon = marker = shahr.so please stop going in circles ! we've already discussed this 111 pages ago. if you dont agree, it's your problem...
P.S No one in this thread has said nor understand that "shahr " is the "moon", except YOU. so whether you are lying or you cannot read !
Peace
What is Shahro Ramdhan then ? If Shar is not moon .
Regards -
Slow down a bit have you ever heard of the atomic clock? have you ever heard of the USA Navel Observatory?
How about GPS satelite or astronomy for that matter. One of the problems that we face in our community is our
backward thinking. THE POSITIONS OF THE CELESTIAL BODIES CAN BE CACULATED TO THE MINUTE. The new moon appeared at 602 am thursday the 20th of August therefore the first of Ramadan began friday the 21st. We have no problem using a newspaper or some other source to find out sunrise or sunset but we forget that the same applies to
all the heavenly bodies.Peace
