Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace all
In setting up a calendar that will fit what the Quran advocates we need to follow the fitra (ways) that
Allah has set up for Nature, and they do follow a luni-solar calendar.
Another commandment is to listen to what is said and follow what is best, that fits in the many definitions
of the word shahar, of course, words can be overloaded with more than one meaning, and one of the
meaning of shahar is month, but how can you best measure shahar to obey the natural "fitra" of Allah on Earth?
Surely a Calendar that has no regard for the real seasons is not realistic.
We need a realistic calendar, that will also fit the meaning of the word ramadan, that will make sense logically
and scientifically (the Quran is a reasonable and intelligent and wise book) etc...
So I think the approach was sound, and we have a good work done, so instead of trying to keep on debunking,
I propose to the nay-sayers who are stuck in their blind traditions (and that is their test), to help in refining it, and making sure
it fits even better within the natural framework of seasons that we witness and that the Quran talks about at length, and that
cannot be accounted for with a purely only lunar calendar. -
Peace all,
When comparing two things, both should have the same attributes.
Now, God is comparing the Night of Decree against 1000 Shahar
973 The Night of Decree is better than one thousand Shahar.
973Thus, if the Night is a period of time, then the Shahar has to be a measurable Period of Time and NOT A Beautiful Image.
Therefore, Shahar CANNOT BE a FULL MOON Image but a MONTH.Peace
Peace
Absolutely true .
Bananas can be compared with Bananas but not with donkeys in any way.
Shahro Ramadhan al dhii unzila fihil Quran . Was the Quran revealed IN THE MOON
It is the month of Ramadhan (Time period) in which Quran was revealed not on the Stones of the Moon.
Actually unfortunately common sense is very uncommon.
Regards -
Peace all,
Now how could you explain fasting nearest to the North Pole where daylights can either be inexistent or last months?
and When you are ready to be tested say I Believe ...
Fast involves seeing dawns and sunsets;
Those living in constant day or night never see the white thread of dawn or the sunset -- they never fast...Begin?
Are you kidding?Hasn't it been established? The scorching hot moon won since the first few posts were made.
Established is that this is the easiest to refute; taken from the first few posts...
The restriction full-moons is counting a period spanning four full-moons starting with the full-moon of scorching heat/"ramadan". During that period, hunting wildlife is restricted and the gathering of the "7ajj"/debate takes place.
Right, seems the only animal the above restriction protects is wild pigs?
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/wild-pigs.jpg
After a gestation period of 112 - 115 days a litter of 3 - 12 piglets is born in the spring.
The young are suckled for about 12 weeks (i.e. solstice) before they are completely weaned onto food.Summer Solstice June 21, 2008
July 17, 2008 hot moon restricted #1 hot moon
Time Altitude Azimuth Fraction Illuminated
1930 0.4 122.2 1.00http//www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/research/2008/jul/hur-dolly-20080723-ir-loop.gif
http//www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/index.php?report=hazards&year=2008&month=jul#tropical
Bertha was the longest-lived July Atlantic tropical storm when it entered its 16th day on July 19. The second longest-lived July tropical storm was Storm Number 2 in 1960, lasting just over 12 days (Associated Press/BBC News).Aug 16, 2008 hot moon restricted #2
1910 1.8 107.8 1.00Sep 14, 2008 hot moon restricted #3
1910 14.5 106.2 1.00Oct 14, 2008 hot moon restricted #4
1910 22.1 90.6 1.00http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/arabian_oryx.jpg
The Arabian Oryx males reach sexual maturity at age 18 months; females as young as 12 months. The gestation period for an Arabian Oryx is 8 to 8 1/2 months and they typically give birth to 1 offspring at a time. The breeding season is all year, though heavy rains stimulate females to come into heat within a week.
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/afghanurials.gif
In their native habitat, mating season begins in September, where Afghan Urial Rams will select 4-5 ewes, who will give birth to one or two lambs after 5 months of gestation. That makes February when they are born after the restriction is lifted.
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/axis.jpg
Another feature of axis is that, being a tropical deer, they do not follow a seasonal rut. Axis Bucks can be found in hard horn and in velvet at the same time any time in the year, which also means that fawning can occur in any month.
http//www.texashuntlodge.com/images/Eland_family.jpg
The Eland diet consists of mostly grass, and they flourish in the Texas Hill Country environment. The Eland are gregarious and very gentle for a wild animal. They tend to breed year-round in the United States and their Gestation Period is 8 1/2 months.
American Bison ? a favorite served at a local restaurant when I visit Fermi Lab...
http//ed.fnal.gov/trc_new/sciencelines_online/sp_smr98/graphics/buffalo.jpeg
Mating season begins in July and can run through September. The female gives birth to one calf after about nine months (i.e. April, May, June).
In the mean time while half the globe fasts; those living south of the equator are free to gorge all day ? especially in Buenos Aires Argentina renowned throughout the world for its exquisite beef.
http//www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/int_argentina_buenos-aires/files/2007/06/asado.jpg
Perhaps "travel" south of the equator skip the fasting altogether like the full moons.
Peace
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Peace,
There are always exceptions.
In all "civilized" countries, there are in place hunting restrictions in certain periods of the year to protect
wild game, and by the way animals do adapt too, if you allow them a window of opportunity.
The solar calendar takes into account the tally of the seasons so that we keep track of the seasons.
Again the Quran was revealed in the Middle East so when it talks about when it refers to the time
co-ordinate then (i.e. Jerusalem time in my view).
In the south hemisphere they will adjust and fast in their summer.
In the North Pole, they can choose to fast in sync with say Medinah, this will then be a shura ijtihad matter like the sectarian ulemah
resolved it, same with other places where it is impossible to witness the first full moon after the solar solstice.
But we are not there yet, far from it. -
Peace
Absolutely true .
Bananas can be compared with Bananas but not with donkeys in any way.
Shahro Ramadhan al dhii unzila fihil Quran . Was the Quran revealed IN THE MOON
It is the month of Ramadhan (Time period) in which Quran was revealed not on the Stones of the Moon.
Actually unfortunately common sense is very uncommon.
RegardsAbsolutly true !! months can be compared to months and NIGHTS have to be compard to nights.
the night of measure = night of ramadhan full moon = night in which the coran has been descended, IS BETTER than 1000 other nights = 1000 of other full moons nights.
YOU GOT IT ! Great !!
Salam
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Absolutly true !! months can be compared to months and NIGHTS have to be compard to nights.
the night of measure = night of ramadhan full moon = night in which the coran has been descended, IS BETTER than 1000 other nights = 1000 of other full moons nights.
YOU GOT IT ! Great !!
Salam
Shahr is night or Moon ?
Your logic goes something like this little knowledge of an ignorant teachers who told the students "HEN means Darkness". One of those student was memorising this meaning at home. When his father heard ,father told the son that HEN is the name of a domestic bird.It is not DARKNESS.
Next day the child told the teacher that HEN does not mean Darkness but it is a domestic bird. Now teacher had his own Logic saying " When the hen spreads its feather ,is there not darkness below the feathers ?" The student said "yes it is".The teacher said "It means HEN is Darkness"
Use common sense.
Regards -
Shahr is night or Moon ?
Your logic goes something like this little knowledge of an ignorant teachers who told the students "HEN means Darkness". One of those student was memorising this meaning at home. When his father heard ,father told the son that HEN is the name of a domestic bird.It is not DARKNESS.
Next day the child told the teacher that HEN does not mean Darkness but it is a domestic bird. Now teacher had his own Logic saying " When the hen spreads its feather ,is there not darkness below the feathers ?" The student said "yes it is".The teacher said "It means HEN is Darkness"
Use common sense.
Regardsnight = time period between sunset and sunrise
Moon = Earth's only natural satellite and the fifth largest satellite in the Solar System.
full moon = a lunar phase that occurs when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun.
Now , full moon = the most obvious phase of the moon = marker = shahr.so please stop going in circles ! we've already discussed this 111 pages ago. if you dont agree, it's your problem...
P.S No one in this thread has said nor understand that "shahr " is the "moon", except YOU. so whether you are lying or you cannot read !
Peace
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night = time period between sunset and sunrise
Moon = Earth's only natural satellite and the fifth largest satellite in the Solar System.
full moon = a lunar phase that occurs when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun.
Now , full moon = the most obvious phase of the moon = marker = shahr.so please stop going in circles ! we've already discussed this 111 pages ago. if you dont agree, it's your problem...
P.S No one in this thread has said nor understand that "shahr " is the "moon", except YOU. so whether you are lying or you cannot read !
Peace
What is Shahro Ramdhan then ? If Shar is not moon .
Regards -
Slow down a bit have you ever heard of the atomic clock? have you ever heard of the USA Navel Observatory?
How about GPS satelite or astronomy for that matter. One of the problems that we face in our community is our
backward thinking. THE POSITIONS OF THE CELESTIAL BODIES CAN BE CACULATED TO THE MINUTE. The new moon appeared at 602 am thursday the 20th of August therefore the first of Ramadan began friday the 21st. We have no problem using a newspaper or some other source to find out sunrise or sunset but we forget that the same applies to
all the heavenly bodies.Peace
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Peace all,
for those who wish to carry on following the sectarian way of fasting, be my guest.
Jesus came to bani israeel to ease some of the burden of the laws of the torah, and i believe so
Mohamed (extended to all of humanity).
You wish to make matters harder for yourself and Mankind, fine, your accounting is with Allah who, as
He said to the People of the Book "...do not exaggerate in your deen..."...
Now I guarantee, that if the Ulamaa of the Sunna and Ijmaa gathered in the Azhar mosque and decided
with the approval of the so called "muslim" governments particularly Saudi Arabia, and the blessing of some
powers that be (I won't cite these lest I risk being in trouble as this is a public forum), so if they decided that
let us change the calendar to a luni-solar one, and use the first full moon after the summer solstice as being the start
of the calendar, and all the rest of it, with the only reason that it is more convenient, you will align yourself like little sheep that you are, because you do not follow the truth, but what you are told, you do not use your brain, but use Tabari, Shafie, the other scholars and all the other Khalifs past's Brains who made the decisions for you in years past.
You are the cattle...
No amount of evidence will convince you, you do not follow one God, but many gods, the gods who manipulate your views... -
This is called "Lie has no memory"
Which phrase and word you and Ayman have been translating as "Full Scorching Moon"?
I am sure you will run and avoid as Ayman has been doing in certain other discussions.
RegardsLMAO rotfl
Follow quickduck's advice...
Read from page 1
To make it easy for you in case you are to lazy to read or cannot read at all 'shahr ramadan' has been translated as 'full moon of scorching heat' by Ayman...
sigh.. QS... nope
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Peace,
for those who wish to carry on following the sectarian way of fasting, be my guest.
What you are referring as the sectarian way of fasting is the right way of fasting which is in synch with the Qur?an. Your way of fasting is the same as Ayman?s way of fasting which is unquranic. What you have demonstrated is a blind following another blind.
?because you do not follow the truth, but what you are told, you do not use your brain, but use Tabari, Shafie, the other scholars and all the other Khalifs past's Brains who made the decisions for you in years past.
Your truth = Ayman?s truth = FALSEHOOD
Ayman tells you to jump, and you say how high ? miserable decision/judgment indeed.
Your brain = Ayman?s Brain = Empty vessel - less than a bird brain. Even a bird would detect this simple falsehood.
You use quickduck (quack, quack) and Ayman as your scholar ? They are making decision for you.
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From what I understand, if it says to abstain two 'shahr', we would abstain from the first full moon and end on the next full moon. The only question I have is that if shahr = full moon, why does the Qur'an mention the word consecutive to describe the two full moons in 492 and 584. If the word consecutive wasn't there, we would get the same meaning.
If shahr = month, then the word consecutive would make a difference because it is possible to fast two months that aren't consecutive. I don't see any way you can fast two full moons that aren't consecutive. I am just wondering because it is hard for me to accept that the word contribute to the meaning of these verses.
peace
Unfortunately, the English translation for the word "Muttatabeainne" as consective is not very accurate.
the root is Ta ba ain, which is "tabiae" the correct meaning of this root is , to follow , walking behind, succession of one to another,and when you have succession of one to another that can also mean to convey as consective.
If the translator has preconceived "shahareen" as two months, then he will always choose consective for Muttattabeainne, but it is actually conveying ,
Start Fasting after seeing a shahar, and follow it up to the next/second shahar.
This command is ensuring, That you start your fast only with the shahar using it as a marker, so that you do not make a mistake in counting, and then finish it up when you see the next shahar (full moon)
I hope it helps.
siki
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Peace,
Start Fasting after seeing a shahar, and follow it up to the next/second shahar.
This command is ensuring, That you start your fast only with the shahar using it as a marker, so that you do not make a mistake in counting, and then finish it up when you see the next shahar (full moon)
I hope it helps.
siki
Helps clearly see that all these verses are NOT applicable for blind men/women according to hot moon illusion...
2185 ?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it
2226 For those who swear away from their women, waiting four months?
2234 ?they wait with themselves four months, and ten
492 ?and who killed a believer mistakenly, so freeing a believing neck
?so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other584... so who did not find, so fasting two months following each other (continuous)
Peace all,
for those who wish to carry on following the sectarian way of fasting, be my guest.
Jesus came to bani israeel to ease some of the burden of the laws of the torah, and i believe so
Mohamed (extended to all of humanity).
You wish to make matters harder for yourself and Mankind, fine, your accounting is with Allah who, as
He said to the People of the Book "...do not exaggerate in your deen..."...
Now I guarantee, that if the Ulamaa of the Sunna and Ijmaa gathered in the Azhar mosque and decided
with the approval of the so called "muslim" governments particularly Saudi Arabia, and the blessing of some
powers that be (I won't cite these lest I risk being in trouble as this is a public forum), so if they decided that
let us change the calendar to a luni-solar one, and use the first full moon after the summer solstice as being the start
of the calendar, and all the rest of it, with the only reason that it is more convenient, you will align yourself like little sheep that you are, because you do not follow the truth, but what you are told, you do not use your brain, but use Tabari, Shafie, the other scholars and all the other Khalifs past's Brains who made the decisions for you in years past.
You are the cattle...
No amount of evidence will convince you, you do not follow one God, but many gods, the gods who manipulate your views...2855
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Peace,
Another commandment is to listen to what is said and follow what is best,
Peace,The precondition for this commandment is all involved in the discussion are believers. The big question is are you, Ayman, quickduck, and all who follow you are believers or not. If you are believers or even muslims then why don't you all accept the challenge i gave you. Because you know the outcome is a defeat for you. And this negates you all as believers.
So I think the approach was sound, and we have a good work done,
The approach is one of the worst in the history of mankind and work done is misleading. Of course it is good for satan but not for humans. You don't have clue as to what a good approach is.
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Peace,
What if my children read the site? We should always correct our mistakes publicly in the same way that we give our opinion publicly. As we are now people of the book we bear a heavy burden to reveal it to people. The god has surrounded us all and at the end we can only be saved by his mercy. May the god help Eid, Farida, Guest, Q_Student and help us all for we were once like them.
Yes, you will mislead your children. You try to cover-up your mistakes! This is clearly evident in your posts.
Just worry about your own neck. You need not worry about us. You really do need to worry about yourself.
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Peace guest,
You have no clue what you are talking about.
The appreciation of my islam and my state of belief is between me and Allah.
Unlike you I will not dare to make comments on yours.
You are indeed an extremist as you are quick to condemn.
Why do you think Allah most of the time refers to the Believers in the past? (Ya ayooha alladhina amanoo)
Why do you think Allah never refers to the Muslims in the past tense?
I do not agree with Ayman's lack of diplomacy towards you, but since you are singling me out, this is slandering
and I will not take it.
Beware, perchance I am a better Muslim and I am closer to Allah than you ever will be... -
Peace,
Your truth = Ayman?s truth = FALSEHOOD
Ayman tells you to jump, and you say how high ? miserable decision/judgment indeed.
Your brain = Ayman?s Brain = Empty vessel - less than a bird brain. Even a bird would detect this simple falsehood.
You use quickduck (quack, quack) and Ayman as your scholar ? They are making decision for you.
one off topic question How old are you ?