Hot/"ramadan" Answer

noble

Peace guest,
I am sorry to have offended you... you did escalate the "offense" though by bringing in Satan,
and non-muslim, non-believer accusations, a trait very typical of the violent extremists...
All prophets came and challenged the status quo.
Jesus was hated by the organised rabbinate (and his messengership cut short), and so were the other prophets before him with the organised religions of their day, why, because humans have a tendency to grab for themselves what Allah has bestowed
them.
So with nowadays Ulamah, they do not want us to understand the Quran on our own, they want us to use them
as filters, so they can manipulate us and keep the message to themselves to accommodate their patrons (guess who).
The Ulamah in Sunni Islam have replaced the Ayatollah in Shia and Priests in Christiandom and Rabbis in Judaism, and
Shamans in Witchcraft.
If you are not getting this, then I am sorry, you are in deep trouble...

931 They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides All?h (by
obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without
being ordered by All?h), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while
they were commanded [in the Taur?t (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to
worship none but One Il?h (God - All?h) L? il?ha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but
He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with
Him)."

but you are still a Muslim, just that you are in great danger of losing your faith, because you are putting your trust
in people who do not deserve it.
I for one, never ever will follow any human, including Ayman that you accuse me of.
Allah has blessed me with some intellect, the ability to read arabic, english and french, and a logical and rational mind,
and I trust the events in my life (I am mature enough), and the signs I have witnessed have given me enough experience to appreciate and be careful and measured in what I am talking about.

guest

Peace,

I am sorry to have offended you... you did escalate the "offense" though by bringing in Satan,
and non-muslim, non-believer accusations, a trait very typical of the violent extremists...

You do not call this satanic ?you do not follow one God, but many gods, the gods who manipulate your views...?

Please tell me who follow many gods?

Your accusation is non conditional, whereas my accusation is conditional. And there is a big difference between them, if you only knew.

herbman

Peace to all, I see messages of people are as the title of the subjet very HOT.

As we have seen we have the pro's and con's about Ayman's definition of when fasting as per Quran alone. Indeed it is an answer.

My question is for the cons

When do you fast by using Quran alone?
Do you need an extra source to define it (fasting month)?
How long do you fast by Quran alone?

This is not meant to offense any point of view, but to go further in the debate.

best regards

noble

Peace guest,
What is more conditional than sticking to Allah's Quran?
and in any event we, like any other beings in this universe are submitted to Allah unconditionally,
humans and jinns having been endowed with free will are required by Allah as a test, a condition
they agreed to upon their creation, in exchange for this endowment, to acknowledge this willingly
mentally, with their hearts and in their deeds.
To help them out, Allah sends Messengers with Messages.
The current Message to the whole of US is the Quran, no if's, no but's , no extra's, no less, no more...
What we need to know and do is all contained in the Quran, fulfilling Allah's will and the Prophet's work
is being guided by the Quran.
Allah takes it upon Himself to explain it to us through Signs in our environment, i.e. it is a work in progress
until the Day of Judgment.
And this is what the Ayat in my Signature clearly says.
Now stop mocking about guest, if you want to have Yousuf Alquardawy or Ali Khameini decide for you fine by me,
but do not try and impose it on me, oki?

ayman

Peace Eid,

Yes, I did change my mind on code 19 after figuring out that it was all random, could not find any consistency, you pointed out some like flipping verses and did a lot of my own work looked into thoroughly was finding multiples everywhere which was the main reason I came back with Holiday, Pseudo, and Eid to dispel all that nonsense which you can easily search my user names and see that most of my posts were to refute the nineteen obsessed...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3466;sa=showPosts
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3633;sa=showPosts
What you do Ayman when proven wrong instead of repenting and make your mistakes right, you deny clear evidence, attack the messengers that brought you the contradicting news about your hot moon; you cannot let go of your ego which is the same that infected nineteen cult. You belittle people, build a straw man/woman call them ignorant, say they babbling, lying, etc., all one has to do is search your posts and you even stoop low as in the above PM example not telling truth what actually transpired. Tell people about your PM to me and what you requested about my work/posts in the 19 forum.

Yes you did good work on debunking Code 19 numerology. But after the PM you didn?t recant and correct what you posted in colors and great fanfare here on this sticky thread

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597669.msg190690#msg190690

Someone reading the above post and then finding no correction from you on the thread might be misguided.

I was proven wrong many times and I even proved myself wrong many times without anyone telling me. For example, right here on this thread, I have corrected my understanding of ?hajj? and there is a fierce debate (mild compared to this one) with Wakas who now holds my previous view.

It is the same thing here. I used to blindly believe the traditional timing exactly like you and then I believed in a fixed 30 day month as Anwar believes. I was defending that ?shahr? means 30 day month when a Sunni fellow pointed to me the fact that one of the meanings of ?shahr? is moon. Indeed, when I looked in the dictionary, I found the meaning of full-moon right there and this was the breakthrough. I didn?t tell the guy ?your #%&* moon? and dismissed it. This would be the ignorant ego-driven thing to do since the poor fellow didn?t travel back in time and conspire with the dictionary author against me. Knowledgeable people know not to dismiss something without researching. Letting the ego take over is a sign of ignorance. Same thing with the word ?ramadhan? and you making fun of the meaning of ?hot? or ?scorching? since if you took 1 minute to check a Classical Arabic dictionary, you would have seen that it is the PRIMARY meaning of the word. The god doesn?t choose his words haphazardly so you are in fact making fun of the god?s words.

As for saying that you are lying or saying irrelevant info, please look at your own words below

On this hot moon topic you are more lost, obsessed, and illogical than those infected with fitna of 7431.
Hopefully you'll explain to your children why people don't fast who live in cloudy weather or the blind.

Your claim above is a demonstration of what I am talking about. Please copy and paste where I said ?people don't fast who live in cloudy weather or the blind?. What do you say about someone who consistently misrepresents what you said? You would say that he is either deliberately lying or has not understood what you said and is therefore giving irrelevant info. I would suggest that if you want to talk about what I said then just copy and paste it or put it in a quote.

Hopefully they'll see a picture of the globe that it is the same night in both Hemispheres and you won't call them ignorant or accuse them of babbling and lying when they ask you to explain why Qur'an was descended in a night not TWO Nights and TWO Ramadans.

Ha.-Mim
2 By the manifest Book (this Qur'an) that makes things clear.
3 That We descended it (this Qur'an) down on a blessed night, that We are ever warning.

Please copy and paste where I accused you of lying or babbling when you said what you are saying above.

Do you know of any night where people suddenly stop killing each other and there is zero crime in the world? What is this night and how is this night peaceful then? You need to ponder on the signs of the god with the objective of learning, not with the objective of debunking me.

All best wishes to you and your children; may they grow up reading the Book, attain wisdom, and know the truth.

Same to you and your family and may the god have mercy on us all.

PS Here is something that I quickly put together and that I hope you would find beneficial

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599057.0

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

ayman

Peace brother Wakas,

I think the obvious thing to do would be for those who disagree with the "full moon of scorching heat" etc theory, is to write a clear and detailed rebuttal, as an article. Ideally, with an alternative.
These things are not difficult to do, but it takes a special kind of person to do them. We shall see.

Thank you for your wise and timely advice. One would think that writing an article proving the traditional timing according to the great reading would be a piece of cake. After all, the traditional timing has been instituted and unchallenged for almost 1400 years, so one would think that it must have a solid base in the great reading.

As it turns out, this is not the case. Even the staunchest defenders of the traditional timing admit that it is based on what some people arbitrarily decided to do or not to do a long time ago and cannot be reconstructed based on the great reading. It is an indisputable fact that if the sectarian timing got changed by the majority or one lost track of it, then like all falsehood it will be lost. So good luck writing an article, they are going to need it.

On the other hand, my article was surprisingly easy to write once I got in the right direction that it should be based 100% on the god?s signs and not on manmade calendars. It sends shivers down my spine when I think about how easy it was even after 1400 years of corruption. This great reading could not have come from anyone other than the god. This is very scary.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Progressive1993,

my 'understand/not understand/need clarification' lists
(Note for the reader these are only things I understand/dont understand from Ayman's article - they dont necessarily represent my own position).
First off, here are the things I understand

'shahr Ramadan' = 'full moon of scorching heat'
this full moon appears after the summer solstice
the Quran was sent down during the night appearance of this full moon (laylatul qadr)
the year is solar we should count 12 full moons in each of them, hence the calendar is luni-solar
the crescents help us for the timing of the hajj, but also the fast, since it takes 10 days for the moon to go from its full moon phase into its crescent phase - the fasting and the hajj both take 10 days each.
as exaplained above, the fasting is for 'ayyaman madoodatin', which means 'few days'. As per a hint from 7142, one can conclude that fasting is for 10 days.
the count of the full moons in a year is 12. Although 13 might appear in some years, they shall not be counted, as per the command in 936.

Thank you for your excellent summary. You actually did a much better job than me in explaining in better and simpler terms.

the restricted full-moons are cleverly picked from Summer to Autumn, since this is when many female animals are pregnant, and to kill one of them would mean to kill their potential offspring.

The timing has to do with protecting young animals as I explained to Quickduck here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg220546#msg220546

The key is about protecting young animals when human hunters pose the highest risk. Most animals give birth in late spring ? early summer. The mortality follows a bathtub curve. Right after they are born, the rate is high because of disease and birth defects and other predators. After a few weeks when they are old enough to venture away from their place of birth, human hunters become the highest risk until fall when they have grown enough to fend for themselves. So this would coincide with a hunting restriction period from early summer to early fall.

Another consideration is that humans who rely on hunting for sustenance can easily find other sources of food during the summer when fruits and vegetables and livestock is more plentiful.

In fact, there is a relation with ?ramadhan? and an inhumane method of hunting. The ancient Arabs used to hunt during the hottest time of the year by using dogs that are kept fresh and well hydrated and can then chase the prey until its feet burn in the heat of the desert and becomes an easy catch. This method called ?taramadh? is described in Classical Arabic dictionaries in one of the entries related to ?ramadhan?.

Things that I dont understand/need clarification for

PERF 558 (a link with the contents of this documents and it's validity would be good)

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/PERF558.html

a clear and thorough exaplanation of why 1712 and 105 make tell us that the year is solar and that the calendar is to be luni-solar.

105 talks about both the sun and the moon (sun is mentioned first) and then says they are used to know the number of years so this is an indication of a luni-solar system. 1712 further confirms that the year is primarily solar by saying that the daylight and night (both are a result of the sun and not the moon) are used to know the number of years.

Also, a good reason why we should count from solstice to solstice and the command thereof in the Quran. Why not from winter solstice to winter soltice, or from autumn equinox to the next, etc.? Why not count the days and have the lunar months are markers?

We can?t count the days and use lunar months as a marker because 1712 doesn?t mention the moon at all. Also, there is nothing inherent in a lunar month that marks the year. One can make a lunar calendar with a year consisting of 10, 11, 13, 14, or 1000 lunar months, so lunar months by themselves are not markers to begin with. In the traditional calendar, the months have been accumulating continuously since its inception. Recycling the names (which are meaningless anyway) every 12 lunar cycles is not counting 12. This is why the traditional calendar is dependent on month 1. The count hasn?t stopped since month 1. On the other hand, with the correct understanding of counting 12 in a 1712 solstice year, the 12 are independently counted and are not dependent on the previous 12.

The equinoxes cannot be used because using the criteria of daylight and night in 1712 the interval between two equinoxes is half a year, not a full year. The choice can only be between the two solstices, the summer or winter solstice. The marker ?shahr ramadhan? points to the summer solstice. The meaning of ?ramadh? is closely tied to the summer solstice. Here is an entry from Lisan Al-Arab

?The sand is scorching (?ramadh?), the wind is still, and the shadow is vertical?

Also, here is another entry relating the sun?s behavior around the summer solstice to ?ramadh?

I have noticed something very interesting from your article, which might seem insignificant at first, but with the right connection to the Bible, it has some significance
The first full-moon of the restricted full-moons (the full moon of scorching heat/"ramadhan&quot is for abstinence while the remaining three full moons are for the debate. This gives people three opportunities per year to meet up for the "7ajj"/debate."
(note for the reader ayman changed his definition of 'hajj' from 'debate' to 'feast&#039
Connection to Exodus 2314 "Three times a year you shall keep/observe a 'hag' to Me.

Yes, this is a very interesting observation. Moreover, the biggest ?hag?/feast of the people of the book was Hag Sukkot, which takes place on the fourth full-moon after the summer solstice. In other words, it coincides precisely with the last inviolable full-moon

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukkot

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Amouna,

I really liked your article and think it is the best example of how to observe abstinence as prescribed by the Qur'an that I have heard so far.
From what I understand, if it says to abstain two 'shahr', we would abstain from the first full moon and end on the next full moon. The only question I have is that if shahr = full moon, why does the Qur'an mention the word consecutive to describe the two full moons in 492 and 584. If the word consecutive wasn't there, we would get the same meaning.
If shahr = month, then the word consecutive would make a difference because it is possible to fast two months that aren't consecutive. I don't see any way you can fast two full moons that aren't consecutive. I am just wondering because it is hard for me to accept that the word contribute to the meaning of these verses.

Thank you for your kind comments. The answer to your question is found by looking at the other occurrences where we are asked to do things according to the full-moon/?shahr?. For example, in the case of the waiting periods, the woman has to wait from the present time until the full-moons have passed. This makes the waiting period variable based on when the last full-moon occurred. The same goes for 92 where ?the roaming of the land? starts now until four full-moons have passed. On the other hand, in the case of 492 and 584, the abstinence is a fixed period between any two full-moons following one another. So unlike the other cases, one doesn?t have to start fasting now and wait for two full-moons to pass.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

guest

Peace,

The equinoxes cannot be used because using the criteria of daylight and night in 1712 the interval between two equinoxes is half a year, not a full year. The choice can only be between the two solstices, the summer or winter solstice. The marker ?shahr ramadhan? points to the summer solstice. The meaning of ?ramadh? is closely tied to the summer solstice. Here is an entry from Lisan Al-Arab

We know Ayman was ignorant of scientific facts/knowledge up until recently when we provided him with accurate scientific data disproving his Ramadan theory. Now, he does not get the benefit of doubt when it comes scientific facts related to his Ramadan theory. Any incorrect fact produced by him will be rightfully considered as premeditated act of misleading. Let's analyzed Ayman's above statement.

He says ?the interval between two equinoxes is half a year, not a full year.? He intentionally omitted the fact that the interval between two solstice is also half year. Picking one solstice is the same as picking one equinox e.g. March equinox. He is intentionally trying to mislead people. Please beware. There are numerous intentional error in Ayman's posts (today). I wonder why quickduck and others who claims to be independent minded people is not questioning the misleading errors. Because they do follow Ayman's tradition.

noble

Peace guest,
What you are saying is that Ayman makes mistakes, like all of us. We as his peers owe it to him to correct him, not to debunk him.
You want to debunk him. And your reasons are very clear, to keep your traditions intact, even if they are sending you head first into the hell-fire...
There is no ambiguity in the definition if you consider one solstice only, and the one is the summer solstice, and yes solstices are separated by 6 months as there is one summer solstice and one winter solstice.
The same goes with equinox, one spring equinox and one autumn equinox which are separated by six months.

ayman

Peace Nabil,

There is no ambiguity in the definition if you consider one solstice only, and the one is the summer solstice, and yes solstices are separated by 6 months as there is one summer solstice and one winter solstice.
The same goes with equinox, one spring equinox and one autumn equinox which are separated by six months.

In order for things to be clear, I learned from the great reading that we need to get past the convenient labels that we use and understand in terms of the nature of things. The night is equal to the day twice a year (the equinoxes), on the other hand the longest day/shortest night and longest night/shortest day happen once a year.

Peace,

Ayman

noble

Peace Ayman,

Thank you for the clarifications and distinctions in your last posts.

Noble

quickduck

Peace,

He says ?the interval between two equinoxes is half a year, not a full year.? He intentionally omitted the fact that the interval between two solstice is also half year. Picking one solstice is the same as picking one equinox e.g. March equinox. He is intentionally trying to mislead people. Please beware. There are numerous intentional error in Ayman's posts (today). I wonder why quickduck and others who claims to be independent minded people is not questioning the misleading errors. Because they do follow Ayman's tradition.

1 - i was travelling so i couldn't check latest posts.

2 - i am not questioning any "misleading errors" because you it is YOU the one who can see them.

3- it is not about any two solstices, but about two SUMMER solstices. he explained this too clearly to sister Amouna.

4 - i am not following Ayman's tradition. I agree with him on his so far logical/flawless theory. As long as i see no "misleading errors" in it, i 'll go on agreeing.

5 - you still didn't answer my question , if you don't mind How old are you ? fftopic

salam,

P.S @ Amouna, welcome.

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

Yes you did good work on debunking Code 19 numerology. But after the PM you didn?t recant and correct what you posted in colors and great fanfare here on this sticky thread

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597669.msg190690#msg190690

Someone reading the above post and then finding no correction from you on the thread might be misguided.

Perhaps re-read above post and the one prior which clearly refutes Bahman's video and removing verses...

Fact is God has caused some of you to loose your minds in an ocean of digits...

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ace4i1osfU&feature=channel_page
0, 1, 2, & 3...
n 123456...n, 123456...n n 6234..., n 123456...n 114 6234..., 123456...n 114 n 6234

Let n = number (1 to infinity) then infinite ch/verse combinations in infinity.

Check out this book based on 1, 9, & 19 (OK so I was bored a bit this evening...lol)

In addition, shows if all verses are used the same claim can be made including even-odd symmetry which God swears by along with prime number totals which is not the case when removing two verses. Anyways, off topic and nice summary in the appendix; I'll consider consolidating all my 100s of posts into one as well.

I was proven wrong many times and I even proved myself wrong many times without anyone telling me. For example, right here on this thread, I have corrected my understanding of ?hajj? and there is a fierce debate (mild compared to this one) with Wakas who now holds my previous view.

Disagree with both, evidence context 2827 8/10 hijajin while you have 3 per year. Another time perhaps.

It is the same thing here. I used to blindly believe the traditional timing exactly like you and then I believed in a fixed 30 day month as Anwar believes. I was defending that ?shahr? means 30 day month when a Sunni fellow pointed to me the fact that one of the meanings of ?shahr? is moon. Indeed, when I looked in the dictionary, I found the meaning of full-moon right there and this was the breakthrough. I didn?t tell the guy ?your #%&* moon? and dismissed it. This would be the ignorant ego-driven thing to do since the poor fellow didn?t travel back in time and conspire with the dictionary author against me. Knowledgeable people know not to dismiss something without researching. Letting the ego take over is a sign of ignorance. Same thing with the word ?ramadhan? and you making fun of the meaning of ?hot? or ?scorching? since if you took 1 minute to check a Classical Arabic dictionary, you would have seen that it is the PRIMARY meaning of the word. The god doesn?t choose his words haphazardly so you are in fact making fun of the god?s words.

Main Entry scorching
Part of Speech adjective1
Definition very hot
Synonyms
blistering, burning, fiery, hot, searing, sizzling, sweltering

As for saying that you are lying or saying irrelevant info, please look at your own words below

Your claim above is a demonstration of what I am talking about. Please copy and paste where I said ?people don't fast who live in cloudy weather or the blind?. What do you say about someone who consistently misrepresents what you said? You would say that he is either deliberately lying or has not understood what you said and is therefore giving irrelevant info. I would suggest that if you want to talk about what I said then just copy and paste it or put it in a quote.

Please copy and paste where I accused you of lying or babbling when you said what you are saying above.

author=ayman link=topic=10715.msg62474#msg62474 date=1131673496
In primitive societies public viewing is exactly what they did. Nowadays we have computers, observatories and so on that can help us with the witnessing so "shahada" doesn't have to be physically seeing the scorching full-moon. It is like having eye witnesses, finger prints, and even DNA as evidence that people can witness in the case of a crime and all this is "shahada" (witnessing). Even a blind person who has a highly sensitive hearing ability can witness that a certain person was there through hearing his voice.

First you posted above in another thread which can also apply in viewing new moon crescents and now this...

author=ayman link=topic=9188.msg220546#msg220546 date=1252129280
I think that Farida never reviewed a legal contract in her life. If she did then she would have understood the difference between "not obligated to do something" and "cannot do something". According to 2185 those who witnessed the full-moon should fast. This doesn't mean that those who didn't witness it can't fast. They could fast but they are not oligated to. Even Farida is not obligated to fast if she didn't witness the scorching full-moon but she can fast anyway.

Clarify your position if they are applicable or not to blind men and women or if too cloudy to count...

2185 ?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it

2226 For those who swear away from their women, waiting four months?

2234 ?they wait with themselves four months, and ten

492 ?and who killed a believer mistakenly, so freeing a believing neck
?so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other

584... so who did not find, so fasting two months following each other (continuous)

The timing has to do with protecting young animals as I explained to Quickduck here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg220546#msg220546

The key is about protecting young animals when human hunters pose the highest risk. Most animals give birth in late spring ? early summer. The mortality follows a bathtub curve. Right after they are born, the rate is high because of disease and birth defects and other predators. After a few weeks when they are old enough to venture away from their place of birth, human hunters become the highest risk until fall when they have grown enough to fend for themselves. So this would coincide with a hunting restriction period from early summer to early fall.

Another consideration is that humans who rely on hunting for sustenance can easily find other sources of food during the summer when fruits and vegetables and livestock is more plentiful.

In fact, there is a relation with ?ramadhan? and an inhumane method of hunting. The ancient Arabs used to hunt during the hottest time of the year by using dogs that are kept fresh and well hydrated and can then chase the prey until its feet burn in the heat of the desert and becomes an easy catch. This method called ?taramadh? is described in Classical Arabic dictionaries in one of the entries related to ?ramadhan?.

Post evidence that births correlate and how June 22 - July 20 plus 3 lunar cycles after protects them.
It is inhumane to needlessly hunt and kill animals for pleasure/sport; neither the book (Qur'an 2441,1744,221 or a believer's conscious allows that regardless of the time or season and is not much different than the ideology of NRA (National Rifle Association).

Peace and kindest regards,

N aka 50

belH

Post evidence that births correlate and how June 22 - July 20 plus 3 lunar cycles after protects them.
It is inhumane to needlessly hunt and kill animals for pleasure/sport; neither the book (Qur'an 2441,1744,221 or a believer's conscious allows that regardless of the time or season and is not much different than the ideology of NRA (National Rifle Association).

Peace and kindest regards,

N aka 50...

Peace all,
For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.

O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reverences Him while unseen. Whoever transgresses from now on, then he will have a painful retribution.
594

O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595

The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.

We are only under restriction when we are in Hajj--see below

O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you. You are not permitted to hunt the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
51

O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted House; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when restriction is over, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for the retribution of God is severe.
52

Peace

Samia

Peace all,
For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.

None of yout quoted verses mentions hajj.

In other words, hajj is during the haram period, therefore while you are in hajj you are during the 7aram period; but not vise-versa.
Maybe you can then deduce the meaning of "wa antum 7urum" and its relation to "hajj".

And how long is hajj period according to quraan?
Hint 2197

And how long is the 7aram perid?

guest

Peace,

105 talks about both the sun and the moon (sun is mentioned first) and then says they are used to know the number of years so this is an indication of a luni-solar system. 1712 further confirms that the year is primarily solar by saying that the daylight and night (both are a result of the sun and not the moon) are used to know the number of years.

We can?t count the days and use lunar months as a marker because 1712 doesn?t mention the moon at all.

Let's analyze Ayman's logic from above quote and draw conclusion

Ayman is saying both sun and moon are used to know the number of years (105)

Then Ayman says only sun is used to know the numbers of years (1712)

If you look at it from the most simplistic mind you would know that these are contradictory statement. A knowledgeable person will not say both X and Y objects are required to do Z and then turn around and say only X is required to do Z. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Only an insane person or a deliberate misleader would do something like this. Worst yet, Ayman is implying that the God is making this contradiction in violation of His own words No contradiction in Quran.

In a very sneaky way Ayman is trying to discredit Allah. Therefore, please beware of him.

CONCLUSION Ayman is spreading lies about the God.

Please note that if you use moon to count number of years, you don't face Ayman's contradiction.

The God used Ayman's to expose his own hypocrisy. Thank you Lord, the Great.

noble

Peace guest,
Let us try and avoid name calling, I can be guilty of it too, but it is childish, and it does berate any good conversation.
Allah uses Signs to talk to us, and my understanding is that the Sign of the Year is using the Sun, precisely one revolution
of the Sun around the Earth, this you can do most easily with the Winter Solstice or the Summer Solstice, also
it is a natural event, which synchronises the Seasons, meaning there is a regular pattern to it, and it repeats itself year after year.
This has in fact nothing to do with the Moon.
The moon is used for convenience to subdivide that Solar Year into 12 segments, and the count of 12 full moons is almost in sync
with that.
Allah further says that the number of months in Allah's System is 12, so it does not take a genius to imply that a solar year will
therefore have 12 months.
A month is marked by a full moon, so we use month or full moon as synonyms, interchangeably.
Ramadan is the full moon that appear just after the Solar Solstice.
Count 12 full moons from then, for a long while there will be no intercalatory full moon, the day there is, discount it, but that one only at that very time (that will not be naseei, naseei was when they arbitrary decided that a month was halal or haram, this they cannot as 1st it does not happen for a long time, 2nd it is a natural phenomenon).
All of this is based on clear Signs of simple natural phenomena and counting.
Now if you say an event happened for instance my child was born 120 moons / months ago, you can work out the year and they will be solar years there will be no ambiguity, because 12 full moons = 12 months = 1 solar year.
Whereas in the current system you will not know if your child was born in the spring or the winter, not that maybe it matters for you, but I think that planning for crops harvest and climatology prediction and even body clock issues, it is important.
So we do rely on the gregorian calendar for our day to day lives, and we use the sectarian, moon based calendar for our religious lives,
so what we are basically saying to Allah that deen has a calendar, and everything else has a better more useful workable calendar.
"... And to Allah belongs the best example..." this is mazeed minna alkufr ya akhee, wake up!!!

belH

None of yout quoted verses mentions hajj.

In other words, hajj is during the haram period, therefore while you are in hajj you are during the 7aram period; but not vise-versa.
Maybe you can then deduce the meaning of "wa antum 7urum" and its relation to "hajj".

And how long is hajj period according to quraan?
Hint 2197

And how long is the 7aram perid?

Peace all,

Samia, Why cannot you give up your bad habit?
If you choose to refute my argument, please do without confusing others. Stick to the points I raised and chose as Sound supporting Truth from my Lord. To make it easy for you, please answer to the following (Pay close attention to the underline part)

O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595

The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.

Your efforts in trying to Give Up Your Bad Habit will Truly be appreciated.

Peace

belH

Peace all

If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question

What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?

Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.