Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace guest,
What you are saying is that Ayman makes mistakes, like all of us. We as his peers owe it to him to correct him, not to debunk him.
You want to debunk him. And your reasons are very clear, to keep your traditions intact, even if they are sending you head first into the hell-fire...
There is no ambiguity in the definition if you consider one solstice only, and the one is the summer solstice, and yes solstices are separated by 6 months as there is one summer solstice and one winter solstice.
The same goes with equinox, one spring equinox and one autumn equinox which are separated by six months. -
Peace Nabil,
There is no ambiguity in the definition if you consider one solstice only, and the one is the summer solstice, and yes solstices are separated by 6 months as there is one summer solstice and one winter solstice.
The same goes with equinox, one spring equinox and one autumn equinox which are separated by six months.In order for things to be clear, I learned from the great reading that we need to get past the convenient labels that we use and understand in terms of the nature of things. The night is equal to the day twice a year (the equinoxes), on the other hand the longest day/shortest night and longest night/shortest day happen once a year.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
He says ?the interval between two equinoxes is half a year, not a full year.? He intentionally omitted the fact that the interval between two solstice is also half year. Picking one solstice is the same as picking one equinox e.g. March equinox. He is intentionally trying to mislead people. Please beware. There are numerous intentional error in Ayman's posts (today). I wonder why quickduck and others who claims to be independent minded people is not questioning the misleading errors. Because they do follow Ayman's tradition.
1 - i was travelling so i couldn't check latest posts.
2 - i am not questioning any "misleading errors" because you it is YOU the one who can see them.
3- it is not about any two solstices, but about two SUMMER solstices. he explained this too clearly to sister Amouna.
4 - i am not following Ayman's tradition. I agree with him on his so far logical/flawless theory. As long as i see no "misleading errors" in it, i 'll go on agreeing.
5 - you still didn't answer my question , if you don't mind How old are you ? fftopic
salam,
P.S @ Amouna, welcome.
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Peace Ayman,
Yes you did good work on debunking Code 19 numerology. But after the PM you didn?t recant and correct what you posted in colors and great fanfare here on this sticky thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597669.msg190690#msg190690
Someone reading the above post and then finding no correction from you on the thread might be misguided.
Perhaps re-read above post and the one prior which clearly refutes Bahman's video and removing verses...
Fact is God has caused some of you to loose your minds in an ocean of digits...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ace4i1osfU&feature=channel_page
0, 1, 2, & 3...
n 123456...n, 123456...n n 6234..., n 123456...n 114 6234..., 123456...n 114 n 6234Let n = number (1 to infinity) then infinite ch/verse combinations in infinity.
Check out this book based on 1, 9, & 19 (OK so I was bored a bit this evening...lol)
In addition, shows if all verses are used the same claim can be made including even-odd symmetry which God swears by along with prime number totals which is not the case when removing two verses. Anyways, off topic and nice summary in the appendix; I'll consider consolidating all my 100s of posts into one as well.
I was proven wrong many times and I even proved myself wrong many times without anyone telling me. For example, right here on this thread, I have corrected my understanding of ?hajj? and there is a fierce debate (mild compared to this one) with Wakas who now holds my previous view.
Disagree with both, evidence context 2827 8/10 hijajin while you have 3 per year. Another time perhaps.
It is the same thing here. I used to blindly believe the traditional timing exactly like you and then I believed in a fixed 30 day month as Anwar believes. I was defending that ?shahr? means 30 day month when a Sunni fellow pointed to me the fact that one of the meanings of ?shahr? is moon. Indeed, when I looked in the dictionary, I found the meaning of full-moon right there and this was the breakthrough. I didn?t tell the guy ?your #%&* moon? and dismissed it. This would be the ignorant ego-driven thing to do since the poor fellow didn?t travel back in time and conspire with the dictionary author against me. Knowledgeable people know not to dismiss something without researching. Letting the ego take over is a sign of ignorance. Same thing with the word ?ramadhan? and you making fun of the meaning of ?hot? or ?scorching? since if you took 1 minute to check a Classical Arabic dictionary, you would have seen that it is the PRIMARY meaning of the word. The god doesn?t choose his words haphazardly so you are in fact making fun of the god?s words.
Main Entry scorching
Part of Speech adjective1
Definition very hot
Synonyms
blistering, burning, fiery, hot, searing, sizzling, swelteringAs for saying that you are lying or saying irrelevant info, please look at your own words below
Your claim above is a demonstration of what I am talking about. Please copy and paste where I said ?people don't fast who live in cloudy weather or the blind?. What do you say about someone who consistently misrepresents what you said? You would say that he is either deliberately lying or has not understood what you said and is therefore giving irrelevant info. I would suggest that if you want to talk about what I said then just copy and paste it or put it in a quote.
Please copy and paste where I accused you of lying or babbling when you said what you are saying above.
author=ayman link=topic=10715.msg62474#msg62474 date=1131673496
In primitive societies public viewing is exactly what they did. Nowadays we have computers, observatories and so on that can help us with the witnessing so "shahada" doesn't have to be physically seeing the scorching full-moon. It is like having eye witnesses, finger prints, and even DNA as evidence that people can witness in the case of a crime and all this is "shahada" (witnessing). Even a blind person who has a highly sensitive hearing ability can witness that a certain person was there through hearing his voice.First you posted above in another thread which can also apply in viewing new moon crescents and now this...
author=ayman link=topic=9188.msg220546#msg220546 date=1252129280
I think that Farida never reviewed a legal contract in her life. If she did then she would have understood the difference between "not obligated to do something" and "cannot do something". According to 2185 those who witnessed the full-moon should fast. This doesn't mean that those who didn't witness it can't fast. They could fast but they are not oligated to. Even Farida is not obligated to fast if she didn't witness the scorching full-moon but she can fast anyway.Clarify your position if they are applicable or not to blind men and women or if too cloudy to count...
2185 ?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it
2226 For those who swear away from their women, waiting four months?
2234 ?they wait with themselves four months, and ten
492 ?and who killed a believer mistakenly, so freeing a believing neck
?so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other584... so who did not find, so fasting two months following each other (continuous)
The timing has to do with protecting young animals as I explained to Quickduck here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg220546#msg220546
The key is about protecting young animals when human hunters pose the highest risk. Most animals give birth in late spring ? early summer. The mortality follows a bathtub curve. Right after they are born, the rate is high because of disease and birth defects and other predators. After a few weeks when they are old enough to venture away from their place of birth, human hunters become the highest risk until fall when they have grown enough to fend for themselves. So this would coincide with a hunting restriction period from early summer to early fall.
Another consideration is that humans who rely on hunting for sustenance can easily find other sources of food during the summer when fruits and vegetables and livestock is more plentiful.
In fact, there is a relation with ?ramadhan? and an inhumane method of hunting. The ancient Arabs used to hunt during the hottest time of the year by using dogs that are kept fresh and well hydrated and can then chase the prey until its feet burn in the heat of the desert and becomes an easy catch. This method called ?taramadh? is described in Classical Arabic dictionaries in one of the entries related to ?ramadhan?.
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Post evidence that births correlate and how June 22 - July 20 plus 3 lunar cycles after protects them.
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It is inhumane to needlessly hunt and kill animals for pleasure/sport; neither the book (Qur'an 2441,1744,221 or a believer's conscious allows that regardless of the time or season and is not much different than the ideology of NRA (National Rifle Association).
Peace and kindest regards,
- N aka 50
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Post evidence that births correlate and how June 22 - July 20 plus 3 lunar cycles after protects them.
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It is inhumane to needlessly hunt and kill animals for pleasure/sport; neither the book (Qur'an 2441,1744,221 or a believer's conscious allows that regardless of the time or season and is not much different than the ideology of NRA (National Rifle Association).
Peace and kindest regards,
- N aka 50...
Peace all,
For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reverences Him while unseen. Whoever transgresses from now on, then he will have a painful retribution.
594O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.
We are only under restriction when we are in Hajj--see below
O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you. You are not permitted to hunt the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
51O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted House; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when restriction is over, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for the retribution of God is severe.
52Peace
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Peace all,
For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.None of yout quoted verses mentions hajj.
In other words, hajj is during the haram period, therefore while you are in hajj you are during the 7aram period; but not vise-versa.
Maybe you can then deduce the meaning of "wa antum 7urum" and its relation to "hajj".And how long is hajj period according to quraan?
Hint 2197And how long is the 7aram perid?
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Peace,
105 talks about both the sun and the moon (sun is mentioned first) and then says they are used to know the number of years so this is an indication of a luni-solar system. 1712 further confirms that the year is primarily solar by saying that the daylight and night (both are a result of the sun and not the moon) are used to know the number of years.
We can?t count the days and use lunar months as a marker because 1712 doesn?t mention the moon at all.
Let's analyze Ayman's logic from above quote and draw conclusion
Ayman is saying both sun and moon are used to know the number of years (105)
Then Ayman says only sun is used to know the numbers of years (1712)
If you look at it from the most simplistic mind you would know that these are contradictory statement. A knowledgeable person will not say both X and Y objects are required to do Z and then turn around and say only X is required to do Z. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Only an insane person or a deliberate misleader would do something like this. Worst yet, Ayman is implying that the God is making this contradiction in violation of His own words No contradiction in Quran.
In a very sneaky way Ayman is trying to discredit Allah. Therefore, please beware of him.
CONCLUSION Ayman is spreading lies about the God.
Please note that if you use moon to count number of years, you don't face Ayman's contradiction.
The God used Ayman's to expose his own hypocrisy. Thank you Lord, the Great.
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Peace guest,
Let us try and avoid name calling, I can be guilty of it too, but it is childish, and it does berate any good conversation.
Allah uses Signs to talk to us, and my understanding is that the Sign of the Year is using the Sun, precisely one revolution
of the Sun around the Earth, this you can do most easily with the Winter Solstice or the Summer Solstice, also
it is a natural event, which synchronises the Seasons, meaning there is a regular pattern to it, and it repeats itself year after year.
This has in fact nothing to do with the Moon.
The moon is used for convenience to subdivide that Solar Year into 12 segments, and the count of 12 full moons is almost in sync
with that.
Allah further says that the number of months in Allah's System is 12, so it does not take a genius to imply that a solar year will
therefore have 12 months.
A month is marked by a full moon, so we use month or full moon as synonyms, interchangeably.
Ramadan is the full moon that appear just after the Solar Solstice.
Count 12 full moons from then, for a long while there will be no intercalatory full moon, the day there is, discount it, but that one only at that very time (that will not be naseei, naseei was when they arbitrary decided that a month was halal or haram, this they cannot as 1st it does not happen for a long time, 2nd it is a natural phenomenon).
All of this is based on clear Signs of simple natural phenomena and counting.
Now if you say an event happened for instance my child was born 120 moons / months ago, you can work out the year and they will be solar years there will be no ambiguity, because 12 full moons = 12 months = 1 solar year.
Whereas in the current system you will not know if your child was born in the spring or the winter, not that maybe it matters for you, but I think that planning for crops harvest and climatology prediction and even body clock issues, it is important.
So we do rely on the gregorian calendar for our day to day lives, and we use the sectarian, moon based calendar for our religious lives,
so what we are basically saying to Allah that deen has a calendar, and everything else has a better more useful workable calendar.
"... And to Allah belongs the best example..." this is mazeed minna alkufr ya akhee, wake up!!! -
None of yout quoted verses mentions hajj.
In other words, hajj is during the haram period, therefore while you are in hajj you are during the 7aram period; but not vise-versa.
Maybe you can then deduce the meaning of "wa antum 7urum" and its relation to "hajj".And how long is hajj period according to quraan?
Hint 2197And how long is the 7aram perid?
Peace all,
Samia, Why cannot you give up your bad habit?
If you choose to refute my argument, please do without confusing others. Stick to the points I raised and chose as Sound supporting Truth from my Lord. To make it easy for you, please answer to the following (Pay close attention to the underline part)O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.
Your efforts in trying to Give Up Your Bad Habit will Truly be appreciated.
Peace
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Peace all
If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question
What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?
Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.
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Peace all
If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question
What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?
Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.
Can you clarify please,
Are you asking about a term which is equivalent to 30/31/28/29 day period? or a certain specific month (like Jan/Feb/march etc?
siki
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Peace all,
Samia, Why cannot you give up your bad habit?
Which is? Making you nervous when I expose your misquoting of the quraanic verses, and ignorance of the meaning of what you quote?
Why don't you just answer my question and show where the word hajj is mentioned in these verses?
Or perhaps you think that "7urum" means "hajj"? nope
You are just going into circles mu7rim is a 7ajj; hajj is only a few days, therefore hunting is restricted only for a few days...
Ignoring the mention of restricted "months" / al-ashhur l7urum
Or, I hope you would not translate this into "ashhur that are hajjs " ... confused -
Can you clarify please,
Are you asking about a term which is equivalent to 30/31/28/29 day period? or a certain specific month (like Jan/Feb/march etc?
siki
Peace,
A Month is the period of time that is equal to 1/12 of a year.My question is
What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?
Which is? Making you nervous when I expose your misquoting of the quraanic verses, and ignorance of the meaning of what you quote?
Why don't you just answer my question and show where the word hajj is mentioned in these verses?
Or perhaps you think that "7urum" means "hajj"? nope
You are just going into circles mu7rim is a 7ajj; hajj is only a few days, therefore hunting is restricted only for a few days...
Ignoring the mention of restricted "months" / al-ashhur l7urum
Or, I hope you would not translate this into "ashhur that are hajjs " ... confusedrotfl It is to tough for you to give it up.
I will make it easy for you, what is meaning of the following
whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba.
)
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I will make it easy for you, what is meaning of the following
whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba.
Still....what makes hunting restricted only during hajj? (which is, according to you, about a week or less). Is "kaaba", as you understand it, restricted to hajj only?
This is why I ask...where is hajj in this verse?
I do not give up just because someone is intimdating me, but I give up when I read some sensible logic. -
Still....what makes hunting restricted only during hajj? (which is, according to you, about a week or less). Is "kaaba", as you understand it, restricted to hajj only?
This is why I ask...where is hajj in this verse?
I do not give up just because someone is intimdating me, but I give up when I read some sensible logic.what is meaning of the following
whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba.
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Peace Eid,
Main Entry scorching
Part of Speech adjective1
Definition very hot
Synonyms blistering, burning, fiery, hot, searing, sizzling, swelteringSo do you think that the god chooses his words in an arbitrary way and that the clear Arabic meaning of the word "ramadhan" doesn't matter. The god could have just as well said "XYZ" or any meaningless label? It is abantantly clear that you cannot understand when "shahr ramadhan" occurs without understanding the key word "ramadhan". This is the minimum required for any understanding.
author=ayman link=topic=10715.msg62474#msg62474 date=1131673496
In primitive societies public viewing is exactly what they did. Nowadays we have computers, observatories and so on that can help us with the witnessing so "shahada" doesn't have to be physically seeing the scorching full-moon. It is like having eye witnesses, finger prints, and even DNA as evidence that people can witness in the case of a crime and all this is "shahada" (witnessing). Even a blind person who has a highly sensitive hearing ability can witness that a certain person was there through hearing his voice.
First you posted above in another thread which can also apply in viewing new moon crescents and now this...
author=ayman link=topic=9188.msg220546#msg220546 date=1252129280
I think that Farida never reviewed a legal contract in her life. If she did then she would have understood the difference between "not obligated to do something" and "cannot do something". According to 2185 those who witnessed the full-moon should fast. This doesn't mean that those who didn't witness it can't fast. They could fast but they are not oligated to. Even Farida is not obligated to fast if she didn't witness the scorching full-moon but she can fast anyway.
Clarify your position if they are applicable or not to blind men and women or if too cloudy to count...
2185 ?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast itThe first quote is probably an older post of mine. I later realized that there is a difference between "shahad" and "shahad an". The first "shahad" always involves physically witnessing. If you understood my second post then you would have seen that the blind can fast and so can you if it is too cloudy but you wouldn't be obligated to. There is nothing that says that anyone CANNOT fast.
2226 For those who swear away from their women, waiting four months?
2234 ?they wait with themselves four months, and ten
492 ?and who killed a believer mistakenly, so freeing a believing neck
?so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other
584... so who did not find, so fasting two months following each other (continuous)Unlike 2185, where is the word "witness" in the above?
- Post evidence that births correlate and how June 22 - July 20 plus 3 lunar cycles after protects them.
See the following example
http//wildlife.state.nh.us/Hunting/hunting_dates_and_seasons.htmNote that hunting season is in the spring or the fall and winter. There is no hunting at all in the summer.
- It is inhumane to needlessly hunt and kill animals for pleasure/sport; neither the book (Qur'an 2441,1744,221 or a believer's conscious allows that regardless of the time or season and is not much different than the ideology of NRA (National Rifle Association).
I agree. However, the hunting restriction is not about killing as a sport it is about killing for food. This is why we are told that we can eat seafood and livestock as an alternative.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace all
If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question
What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?
Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.
do you mean this month ?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Month
As you can see, the english word "month" is a human arbitrary subdivision of the year. it has never been the same 29-30 days in all ancient cultures. There are many types of months, not all of them have the same meaning.
So if you posted this question in BOLD just because you are convinced that month depends EXCLUSIVELEY on the moon, so tell me what do you think about the ? month ? February ?
Is it depending on the moon ?
The Quranic teaching for this , is that we should START counting from obvious markers/events (shahr = full moon = front doors) and stop the count @ 12, within a solar year (don?t you really see that the year is solar ??)
After that, it?s up to you to find a word for the ? time frame ? between two obvious moon markers ??shahar?? .. some call it month , why don?t you ? -
Peace Belal,
For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.
O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reverences Him while unseen. Whoever transgresses from now on, then he will have a painful retribution.
594
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595
The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.There are several problems in your logic (or more appropriately, lack thereof).
- The first problem is that you ignore the meaning of the Arabic word "kaaba" and are thus unable to translate it.
- The second problem is that even the Arabic words that you know such as , which you correctly translate as "restricted", you ignore that correct meaning and instead imagine that it means "taking off your clothes and wearing some towels so that you can mindlessly spin half-naked around a stone cube".
- The third problem is related to the first problem. Since the "kaaba" to you means a useless stone cube that is only for you to mindlessly spin around, you seem to think that the real "kaaba"/base (the god's inviolable house) suddenly disappears when there is no "hajj".
- The fourth problem is that when the god mentions "four inviolable four moons (or months according to you)", you hear instead "inviolable while doing the sectarian so-called Hajj". So you even ignore your own understanding of the restriction period being four "months" and instead assume that it is just on the 8th-13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.
We are only under restriction when we are in Hajj--see below
O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you. You are not permitted to hunt the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
51
O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted House; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when restriction is over, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for the retribution of God is severe.
52So according to your logic, "honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you" is only from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and otherwise we shouldn't honor our contracts and we should eat pork!
You also ignore once again the very translation that you are providing. It clearly says "when restriction is over" not "when your so-called Hajj from 8th to 13th of Dhu Al-Hiajjah is over".
Peace,
Ayman
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do you mean this month ?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Month
As you can see, the english word "month" is a human arbitrary subdivision of the year. it has never been the same 29-30 days in all ancient cultures. There are many types of months, not all of them have the same meaning.
So if you posted this question in BOLD just because you are convinced that month depends EXCLUSIVELEY on the moon, so tell me what do you think about the ? month ? February ?
Is it depending on the moon ?
The Quranic teaching for this , is that we should START counting from obvious markers/events (shahr = full moon = front doors) and stop the count @ 12, within a solar year (don?t you really see that the year is solar ??)
After that, it?s up to you to find a word for the ? time frame ? between two obvious moon markers ??shahar?? .. some call it month , why don?t you ?Peace duck,
Let me make simple for you as I did with Samia
Translate the following ENGLISH WORD TO ARABIC
MONTH