Hot/"ramadan" Answer

belH

Post evidence that births correlate and how June 22 - July 20 plus 3 lunar cycles after protects them.
It is inhumane to needlessly hunt and kill animals for pleasure/sport; neither the book (Qur'an 2441,1744,221 or a believer's conscious allows that regardless of the time or season and is not much different than the ideology of NRA (National Rifle Association).

Peace and kindest regards,

N aka 50...

Peace all,
For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.

O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reverences Him while unseen. Whoever transgresses from now on, then he will have a painful retribution.
594

O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595

The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.

We are only under restriction when we are in Hajj--see below

O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you. You are not permitted to hunt the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
51

O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted House; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when restriction is over, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for the retribution of God is severe.
52

Peace

Samia

Peace all,
For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.

None of yout quoted verses mentions hajj.

In other words, hajj is during the haram period, therefore while you are in hajj you are during the 7aram period; but not vise-versa.
Maybe you can then deduce the meaning of "wa antum 7urum" and its relation to "hajj".

And how long is hajj period according to quraan?
Hint 2197

And how long is the 7aram perid?

guest

Peace,

105 talks about both the sun and the moon (sun is mentioned first) and then says they are used to know the number of years so this is an indication of a luni-solar system. 1712 further confirms that the year is primarily solar by saying that the daylight and night (both are a result of the sun and not the moon) are used to know the number of years.

We can?t count the days and use lunar months as a marker because 1712 doesn?t mention the moon at all.

Let's analyze Ayman's logic from above quote and draw conclusion

Ayman is saying both sun and moon are used to know the number of years (105)

Then Ayman says only sun is used to know the numbers of years (1712)

If you look at it from the most simplistic mind you would know that these are contradictory statement. A knowledgeable person will not say both X and Y objects are required to do Z and then turn around and say only X is required to do Z. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Only an insane person or a deliberate misleader would do something like this. Worst yet, Ayman is implying that the God is making this contradiction in violation of His own words No contradiction in Quran.

In a very sneaky way Ayman is trying to discredit Allah. Therefore, please beware of him.

CONCLUSION Ayman is spreading lies about the God.

Please note that if you use moon to count number of years, you don't face Ayman's contradiction.

The God used Ayman's to expose his own hypocrisy. Thank you Lord, the Great.

noble

Peace guest,
Let us try and avoid name calling, I can be guilty of it too, but it is childish, and it does berate any good conversation.
Allah uses Signs to talk to us, and my understanding is that the Sign of the Year is using the Sun, precisely one revolution
of the Sun around the Earth, this you can do most easily with the Winter Solstice or the Summer Solstice, also
it is a natural event, which synchronises the Seasons, meaning there is a regular pattern to it, and it repeats itself year after year.
This has in fact nothing to do with the Moon.
The moon is used for convenience to subdivide that Solar Year into 12 segments, and the count of 12 full moons is almost in sync
with that.
Allah further says that the number of months in Allah's System is 12, so it does not take a genius to imply that a solar year will
therefore have 12 months.
A month is marked by a full moon, so we use month or full moon as synonyms, interchangeably.
Ramadan is the full moon that appear just after the Solar Solstice.
Count 12 full moons from then, for a long while there will be no intercalatory full moon, the day there is, discount it, but that one only at that very time (that will not be naseei, naseei was when they arbitrary decided that a month was halal or haram, this they cannot as 1st it does not happen for a long time, 2nd it is a natural phenomenon).
All of this is based on clear Signs of simple natural phenomena and counting.
Now if you say an event happened for instance my child was born 120 moons / months ago, you can work out the year and they will be solar years there will be no ambiguity, because 12 full moons = 12 months = 1 solar year.
Whereas in the current system you will not know if your child was born in the spring or the winter, not that maybe it matters for you, but I think that planning for crops harvest and climatology prediction and even body clock issues, it is important.
So we do rely on the gregorian calendar for our day to day lives, and we use the sectarian, moon based calendar for our religious lives,
so what we are basically saying to Allah that deen has a calendar, and everything else has a better more useful workable calendar.
"... And to Allah belongs the best example..." this is mazeed minna alkufr ya akhee, wake up!!!

belH

None of yout quoted verses mentions hajj.

In other words, hajj is during the haram period, therefore while you are in hajj you are during the 7aram period; but not vise-versa.
Maybe you can then deduce the meaning of "wa antum 7urum" and its relation to "hajj".

And how long is hajj period according to quraan?
Hint 2197

And how long is the 7aram perid?

Peace all,

Samia, Why cannot you give up your bad habit?
If you choose to refute my argument, please do without confusing others. Stick to the points I raised and chose as Sound supporting Truth from my Lord. To make it easy for you, please answer to the following (Pay close attention to the underline part)

O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595

The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.

Your efforts in trying to Give Up Your Bad Habit will Truly be appreciated.

Peace

belH

Peace all

If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question

What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?

Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.

siki

Peace all

If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question

What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?

Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.

Can you clarify please,

Are you asking about a term which is equivalent to 30/31/28/29 day period? or a certain specific month (like Jan/Feb/march etc?

siki

Samia

Peace all,

Samia, Why cannot you give up your bad habit?

Which is? Making you nervous when I expose your misquoting of the quraanic verses, and ignorance of the meaning of what you quote?
Why don't you just answer my question and show where the word hajj is mentioned in these verses?
Or perhaps you think that "7urum" means "hajj"? nope
You are just going into circles mu7rim is a 7ajj; hajj is only a few days, therefore hunting is restricted only for a few days...
Ignoring the mention of restricted "months" / al-ashhur l7urum
Or, I hope you would not translate this into "ashhur that are hajjs " ... confused

belH

Can you clarify please,

Are you asking about a term which is equivalent to 30/31/28/29 day period? or a certain specific month (like Jan/Feb/march etc?

siki

Peace,
A Month is the period of time that is equal to 1/12 of a year.

My question is

What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?

Which is? Making you nervous when I expose your misquoting of the quraanic verses, and ignorance of the meaning of what you quote?
Why don't you just answer my question and show where the word hajj is mentioned in these verses?
Or perhaps you think that "7urum" means "hajj"? nope
You are just going into circles mu7rim is a 7ajj; hajj is only a few days, therefore hunting is restricted only for a few days...
Ignoring the mention of restricted "months" / al-ashhur l7urum
Or, I hope you would not translate this into "ashhur that are hajjs " ... confused

rotfl It is to tough for you to give it up.

I will make it easy for you, what is meaning of the following

whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba.

)

Samia

I will make it easy for you, what is meaning of the following

whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba.

Still....what makes hunting restricted only during hajj? (which is, according to you, about a week or less). Is "kaaba", as you understand it, restricted to hajj only?
This is why I ask...where is hajj in this verse?
I do not give up just because someone is intimdating me, but I give up when I read some sensible logic.

belH

Still....what makes hunting restricted only during hajj? (which is, according to you, about a week or less). Is "kaaba", as you understand it, restricted to hajj only?
This is why I ask...where is hajj in this verse?
I do not give up just because someone is intimdating me, but I give up when I read some sensible logic.

what is meaning of the following

whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba.

ayman

Peace Eid,

Main Entry scorching
Part of Speech adjective1
Definition very hot
Synonyms blistering, burning, fiery, hot, searing, sizzling, sweltering

So do you think that the god chooses his words in an arbitrary way and that the clear Arabic meaning of the word "ramadhan" doesn't matter. The god could have just as well said "XYZ" or any meaningless label? It is abantantly clear that you cannot understand when "shahr ramadhan" occurs without understanding the key word "ramadhan". This is the minimum required for any understanding.

author=ayman link=topic=10715.msg62474#msg62474 date=1131673496
In primitive societies public viewing is exactly what they did. Nowadays we have computers, observatories and so on that can help us with the witnessing so "shahada" doesn't have to be physically seeing the scorching full-moon. It is like having eye witnesses, finger prints, and even DNA as evidence that people can witness in the case of a crime and all this is "shahada" (witnessing). Even a blind person who has a highly sensitive hearing ability can witness that a certain person was there through hearing his voice.
First you posted above in another thread which can also apply in viewing new moon crescents and now this...
author=ayman link=topic=9188.msg220546#msg220546 date=1252129280
I think that Farida never reviewed a legal contract in her life. If she did then she would have understood the difference between "not obligated to do something" and "cannot do something". According to 2185 those who witnessed the full-moon should fast. This doesn't mean that those who didn't witness it can't fast. They could fast but they are not oligated to. Even Farida is not obligated to fast if she didn't witness the scorching full-moon but she can fast anyway.
Clarify your position if they are applicable or not to blind men and women or if too cloudy to count...
2185 ?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it

The first quote is probably an older post of mine. I later realized that there is a difference between "shahad" and "shahad an". The first "shahad" always involves physically witnessing. If you understood my second post then you would have seen that the blind can fast and so can you if it is too cloudy but you wouldn't be obligated to. There is nothing that says that anyone CANNOT fast.

2226 For those who swear away from their women, waiting four months?
2234 ?they wait with themselves four months, and ten
492 ?and who killed a believer mistakenly, so freeing a believing neck
?so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other
584... so who did not find, so fasting two months following each other (continuous)

Unlike 2185, where is the word "witness" in the above?

Post evidence that births correlate and how June 22 - July 20 plus 3 lunar cycles after protects them.

See the following example
http//wildlife.state.nh.us/Hunting/hunting_dates_and_seasons.htm

Note that hunting season is in the spring or the fall and winter. There is no hunting at all in the summer.

It is inhumane to needlessly hunt and kill animals for pleasure/sport; neither the book (Qur'an 2441,1744,221 or a believer's conscious allows that regardless of the time or season and is not much different than the ideology of NRA (National Rifle Association).

I agree. However, the hunting restriction is not about killing as a sport it is about killing for food. This is why we are told that we can eat seafood and livestock as an alternative.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

quickduck

Peace all

If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question

What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?

Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.

do you mean this month ?

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Month

As you can see, the english word "month" is a human arbitrary subdivision of the year. it has never been the same 29-30 days in all ancient cultures. There are many types of months, not all of them have the same meaning.

So if you posted this question in BOLD just because you are convinced that month depends EXCLUSIVELEY on the moon, so tell me what do you think about the ? month ? February ?
Is it depending on the moon ?
The Quranic teaching for this , is that we should START counting from obvious markers/events (shahr = full moon = front doors) and stop the count @ 12, within a solar year (don?t you really see that the year is solar ??)
After that, it?s up to you to find a word for the ? time frame ? between two obvious moon markers ??shahar?? .. some call it month , why don?t you ?

ayman

Peace Belal,

For your information, Hunting is ONLY prohibited during Hajj, according to Quran.
O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reverences Him while unseen. Whoever transgresses from now on, then he will have a painful retribution.
594
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595
The above clearly shows that if someone hunts deliberately while he is restricted, then he will have to sacrifice an equal animal WHEN HE REACHES KABBA--God's Restricted House, which Abraham Built and God ordered Believers to make Hajj to. And that is the only place where Sacrifice should take place, according to Quran.

There are several problems in your logic (or more appropriately, lack thereof).

The first problem is that you ignore the meaning of the Arabic word "kaaba" and are thus unable to translate it.
The second problem is that even the Arabic words that you know such as , which you correctly translate as "restricted", you ignore that correct meaning and instead imagine that it means "taking off your clothes and wearing some towels so that you can mindlessly spin half-naked around a stone cube".
The third problem is related to the first problem. Since the "kaaba" to you means a useless stone cube that is only for you to mindlessly spin around, you seem to think that the real "kaaba"/base (the god's inviolable house) suddenly disappears when there is no "hajj".
The fourth problem is that when the god mentions "four inviolable four moons (or months according to you)", you hear instead "inviolable while doing the sectarian so-called Hajj". So you even ignore your own understanding of the restriction period being four "months" and instead assume that it is just on the 8th-13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.

We are only under restriction when we are in Hajj--see below
O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you. You are not permitted to hunt the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
51
O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted House; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when restriction is over, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for the retribution of God is severe.
52

So according to your logic, "honor your contracts. Made lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you" is only from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and otherwise we shouldn't honor our contracts and we should eat pork!

You also ignore once again the very translation that you are providing. It clearly says "when restriction is over" not "when your so-called Hajj from 8th to 13th of Dhu Al-Hiajjah is over".

Peace,

Ayman

belH

do you mean this month ?

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Month

As you can see, the english word "month" is a human arbitrary subdivision of the year. it has never been the same 29-30 days in all ancient cultures. There are many types of months, not all of them have the same meaning.

So if you posted this question in BOLD just because you are convinced that month depends EXCLUSIVELEY on the moon, so tell me what do you think about the ? month ? February ?
Is it depending on the moon ?
The Quranic teaching for this , is that we should START counting from obvious markers/events (shahr = full moon = front doors) and stop the count @ 12, within a solar year (don?t you really see that the year is solar ??)
After that, it?s up to you to find a word for the ? time frame ? between two obvious moon markers ??shahar?? .. some call it month , why don?t you ?

Peace duck,

Let me make simple for you as I did with Samia

Translate the following ENGLISH WORD TO ARABIC

MONTH

ayman

Peace Belal,

If Ayman and his followers have some creditability left, please answer this question
What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD MONTH?
Sorry for the big letters, but I want everyone to understand why we are disputing with Ayman and his followers.

What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD WEEK?

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace Belal,

There are several problems in your logic (or more appropriately, lack thereof).

The first problem is that you ignore the meaning of the Arabic word "kaaba" and are thus unable to translate it.

That is the meaning of KABBA

God has made the KABBA to be the Restricted House; to enforce for the people, and for the restricted month, and for the donations, and for regulation; that is so you may know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in earth, and that God is aware of all things.
597

The Kabba is the Restricted HOUSE...Which I believe is in Jerusalem, where Makam (Tomb) Abraham Stands.

Thus
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595

The Sacrifice shall be in the Restricted House..Therefore, the Hunting Restriction is During our Hajj to the Restricted House. !

Now

WHAT IS THE ARABIC WORD THAT EQUAL THE ENGLISH WORD "MONTH"?

quickduck

Peace Belal,

What is the QURANIC ARABIC WORD that is equal to the ENGLISH WORD WEEK?

Peace,

Ayman

Please Ayman, make it simple for him

@ BelH

Translate the following ENGLISH WORD TO ARABIC

WEEK

I mean , this WEEK

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week

salam,

P.S rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

belH

Please Ayman, make it simple for him

@ BelH

Translate the following ENGLISH WORD TO ARABIC

WEEK

I mean , this WEEK

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week

salam,

P.S rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

ayman

Peace Belal,

That is the meaning of KABBA
God has made the KABBA to be the Restricted House; to enforce for the people, and for the restricted month, and for the donations, and for regulation; that is so you may know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in earth, and that God is aware of all things.
597
The Kabba is the Restricted HOUSE...Which I believe is in Jerusalem, where Makam (Tomb) Abraham Stands.
Thus
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Kabba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then God will seek vengeance on him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
595
The Sacrifice shall be in the Restricted House..Therefore, the Hunting Restriction is During our Hajj to the Restricted House. !

Are you saying that the sectarians' Kaaba is not the real "kaaba" but they just built a stone cube and hijacked the word "kaaba" from the great reading and named their pagan shrine accordingly? This is very interesting. How do we know that you are also not hijacking the word "kaaba" and slapping it on some rock in Jerusalem? Please tell us what "kaaba" means so that we can see if you are truthful.

If you don't trust the sectarians on "kaaba" then why trust them on "ramadhan". It is much easier to name an arbitrary abstract month than to make people go on a pilgrimage to a different physical location hundreds of kilometers away in the middle of the desert.

Now
WHAT IS THE ARABIC WORD THAT EQUAL THE ENGLISH WORD "MONTH"?

I see that you took out the word QURANIC. If you did it on purpose then thank you for your honesty and correction. So do you now acknoweldge that the great reading doesn't mention arbitrary manmade calendars and their arbitrary months and weeks?

Peace,

Ayman