Hot/"ramadan" Answer

belH

Peace belH
us WHO?

We are trying to be of those who order what our Lord have taught us in the Books, and Prohibit what Our Lord has not prescribed in His Books.
And not of those whom God spoke about in the following

The hypocrite males and the hypocrite females, they are to each other. They order what were not prescribed and prohibit were prescribed (In the Books), and they close their hands. They forgot God, so He will forget them; indeed, the hypocrites are the wicked.
967

Why are you in your stubbornness wanting to argue using semantics

rotfl how about the one .who is arguing using Pagan Language to Refute that the Shahar = Month; After all, as our Lord ordered us, we shall believe in the Quran, the Bible and the Torah.

If you want to Judge, please be fare...After all, you have said you are independent and not of those who worship Ayman and want to Market His Image as the Smartest of all when He is the opposite.

belH

Southern/Central Arabian dialect (see ?warkh? used to mean month)
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm
Northern Arabian dialect (see ?yarkh? used to mean month)
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.html

Also, please note that none of the Pre-Islamic inscriptions mention any of the sectarian months? names.

This is the true Pre-islamic scripts--The Aramic Language Script, The True Bible...Please note the similarities between the ARABIC and ARAMIC
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/_RrFTRNcWhxk/SkWLxor5i1I/AAAAAAAAAPU/H9fqYexKz3c/s400/0626_bible_398w_right_side_up.jpg

http//www.schoyencollection.com/aram-heb-syr_files/ms036.jpg

http//www.barefootsworld.net/images/slotae.gif

noble

Peace belH,
no not the Bible,
Leaves of Abraham, Torah to Moses, Psalms to David, The Gospel to Jesus, these are what Allah
wants us to be aware of and be concerned about, why, maybe one day we will know.
The Bible contains accounts of the above well after they were revealed, so be careful with your quotes too.
Ayman like you, me, and many others, and because we are in a forum, and not writing in a scientific journal
(though in my view, since we are talking about matters as serious as the Divine, we should be doubly serious),
especially when we get emotional, do not always check out our sources properly, this is called wishful thinking.
Language has nothing to do with ideology, pagan or not, or scripture of it depends on where the tribe in question
acquired the script which they used as a convenient form to convey their spoken tongue.
Abraham is quoted as having spoken chaldeen or sumerian for which there are different scripts which are according
to your definition pagan, because the people of Sumer were pagans. Do not misquote me on this, I am not an expert historian.
You have a misconception that the script of a language defines the religious inclination, or ideology of those who use it, or even their tongue, it does not, just look nowadays around you, jewish persians using arabic scripts, jewish sefarids in the past century using arabic scripts, they were not muslims, same arabic christian catholic who did not use arabic scripts but used latin tongue for their ceremony, etc...
Do not get confused... you cannot say a Pagan language as you cannot say a stupid language, and it has nothing to do with the language in your case, you were referring to the script, as for the language, the same applies, people of different language (ie speaking tongues) can have different ideologies (pagan or not)...
Will you now please become more rational, logical, human

belH

Peace belH,
no not the Bible,
Leaves of Abraham, Torah to Moses, Psalms to David, The Gospel to Jesus, these are what Allah
wants us to be aware of and be concerned about, why, maybe one day we will know.
The Bible contains accounts of the above well after they were revealed, so be careful with your quotes too.
Ayman like you, me, and many others, and because we are in a forum, and not writing in a scientific journal
(though in my view, since we are talking about matters as serious as the Divine, we should be doubly serious),
especially when we get emotional, do not always check out our sources properly, this is called wishful thinking.
Language has nothing to do with ideology, pagan or not, or scripture of it depends on where the tribe in question
acquired the script which they used as a convenient form to convey their spoken tongue.
Abraham is quoted as having spoken chaldeen or sumerian for which there are different scripts which are according
to your definition pagan, because the people of Sumer were pagans. Do not misquote me on this, I am not an expert historian.
You have a misconception that the script of a language defines the religious inclination, or ideology of those who use it, or even their tongue, it does not, just look nowadays around you, jewish persians using arabic scripts, jewish sefarids in the past century using arabic scripts, they were not muslims, same arabic christian catholic who did not use arabic scripts but used latin tongue for their ceremony, etc...
Do not get confused... you cannot say a Pagan language as you cannot say a stupid language, and it has nothing to do with the language in your case, you were referring to the script, as for the language, the same applies, people of different language (ie speaking tongues) can have different ideologies (pagan or not)...
Will you now please become more rational, logical, human )

Peace,
Thank you for the advise, which should be said to Ayman as well, espacially, He was the one who used the pre-islamic language issue to refute the meaning of Shahar.

Now, Can you tell us, What is the Arabic Word that is equal to the English Word "Month"

I hope you will take into account your valuable advise when answering this Important Question.

May God Lead and Bless those who are seeking His Truth.

Peace

noble

Peace belH
in the Arabic I was brought up in, shahr means month.
i was also brought up using a solar calendar, never using the lunar calendar.
i was aware of the hijri calendar which i also never used, but whom religious people
referred to for religious events such as Ashoura, fasting Ramadan, Hajj, etc.
they still used the solar calendar for their day to day and all of their business lives.
For me I found it very odd, I wish I could have asked my father who was a Qadhi (ie an Islamic Judge), but he was dead
when I showed an interest in the matter.
At the time I was reading the Quran, and didn't realise the existence of another corpus the hadith and sunnah until much later,
so I lived a very sheltered life, and I am very grateful to Allah and my parents for that.
I found the Quran very self sufficient, and I was learning Islam this way, until I had the misfortune to meet a sectarian...
(i could as well say safely a satanist, because this is what I believe those who advocate forcefully their ideology actually are, and despite not being a believer in the relevance of Hadith, there is a great one on this, where one day the majority of the members of the Ummah will see Hell Fire, and will think it is Paradise, and run away towards it, and will see Paradise and will think it is Hell Fire and will run away from it - hadith like these make me wonder that maybe a few of them are after all Sahih)...
but that is veering off topic...

Good luck in your debunking Mr belH you will need it

Peace

Noble

siki

Belh

You seem quiet intelligent, but why cant you seem to grasp a simple thing,

Month is a time period between two shahrs , and as this is not fixed, so God does not use it , because, if he tells you to carry out something for , let us say two months,

How many days would you count ? 58,59,or 60?

You see above, that would create confusion in your mind, and you know God , and Quran, HE/ IT does not create/leave any confusion for us.

siki

Ashraf

Salaam,

Dear Ayman or anyone who can share the knowledge,

..The Arabic word "kaab" has the same basic meaning as "kaaba". In Arabic the word "kaab" is used in expressions like "kaab al-wadi" to mean "the base of the valley" and in "kaab al-hithaa" to mean "the base of the shoe". So the word "kaab" essentially means "base"..

Need clarification on word "Ka3bain" (Dual - "Base" or "Ankle" ?) as in 56 above.

May I know the difference between "maraafiq" vs "maraafiqain". What statement that we could deduce from this wording structure. Apology if this have been discussed before becoz couldnt find it.

Peace, Ashraf

siki

Salaam,

Dear Ayman or anyone who can share the knowledge,

Need clarification on word "Ka3bain" (Dual - "Base" or "Ankle" ?) as in 56 above.

May I know the difference between "maraafiq" vs "maraafiqain". What statement that we could deduce from this wording structure. Apology if this have been discussed before becoz couldnt find it.

Peace, Ashraf

I suggest , that this should be asked and discussed in appropriate thread.

siki

Ashraf

Here is a verse for you
2203

And remember God in a few days . But if any one hastens to leave in two days, there is no blame on him, and if any one stays on, there is no blame on him, if his aim is to do right. Then fear God, and know that you will surely be gathered unto Him.

It's clear from this verse that less than "ma3doodat" will be 2.
OK.This time I am off this topic of "ma3dood/ma3doodat". Sorry if I refrain from responding to you next time.
You do not ask to learn, but to argue. I do not have time for that.

Dear Samia,

I want to learn and hope you dont mind to reply )

Is it wrong if i understand the verse 2203 as follows

Minimum "ma3doodat" >>> two days
Maximum "ma3doodat" >>> varies (3 or 4 or 7 etc) but preferably 10, however 10 is not a mandatory.

The only 10 that I consider a preferred count was just my understanding base on "hint" in 2196 and 892. (is there anything else?)

However 10 days in 2196 is for hajj I am not sure whether I can overconfidantly say so that 10 days apply to Ramadhan as well.

My understanding at this moment is that Allah give His mercy (leeway) for us to decide the max no of days to our personal preference/ability this time around, but minimum is two. (This stand is still subject to debate/correction)

On other note Allah is very specific with the number of siyaam ie. 3 days (589), 10 days (2196). Any feedback appreciated.

Peace, Ashraf

unknownuser

Peace siki,

Month is a time period between two shahrs , and as this is not fixed, so God does not use it , because, if he tells you to carry out something for , let us say two months,

How many days would you count ? 58,59,or 60?

You see above, that would create confusion in your mind, and you know God , and Quran, HE/ IT does not create/leave any confusion for us.

60 dawns to sunsets (days Qur?an); .061 or 1.4hrs includes the 60th dawn; 2 lunar months = 59.06118 days (24hrs).

Oldest lunar calendar identified http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/975360.stm

http//news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/975000/images/_975360_las300a.jpg

Now your turn ? how many days are they free to travel from the day of proclamation?

92 so travel in the earth four ashhurin (full moons according to you)?
93 And proclamation from God and His messenger to the people (on) day the hajj the greatest?

siki

Peace siki,

60 dawns to sunsets (days Qur?an); .061 or 1.4hrs includes the 60th dawn; 2 lunar months = 59.06118 days (24hrs).

Oldest lunar calendar identified http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/975360.stm

http//news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/975000/images/_975360_las300a.jpg

Now your turn ? how many days are they free to travel from the day of proclamation?

92 so travel in the earth four ashhurin (full moons according to you)?
93 And proclamation from God and His messenger to the people (on) day the hajj the greatest?

where/what is your criteria for making a month as of 30 days?

siki

guest

Peace,

The day and night are determined by the sun and they have nothing to do with the moon.

The sun does not decide where on earth the day should be. It simply emits light in all direction at all time. In order for the sun to decide the location of day on earth it will have to go around the earth. And we know this is not true. If it were then we would have a chaotic solar system. Unfortunately, Ayman insists on sun going around the earth to satisfy his faulty concept in the quote. Ayman is trying very hard to disprove God?s system. He is trying to eliminate the truth. He will not succeed. The God has exposed his hypocrisy and exposed his blind follower quickduck and siki.

The statement in the above quote qualifies Ayman as the most ignorant and unintelligent person of the world. Ayman, you are hereby entered in the Guinness World Records as the most foolish person. You need to frame the quote and hang it on the wall of your living room.

I will use an example to illustrate the situation at hand.

Take a white round ball and call it the earth. And take laser pointer, fixed it at an angle and call it the sunlight (red laser light)

Now bring the white ball under the laser so that laser spot can be seen on the ball. We will call this lighted area the location of day on earth. If the earth did not move on its axis then we will have a fixed location day on earth at all time.

Now rotate the ball clockwise or counterclockwise and you will notice the location of day on earth is different than the initial position. Now who is determining the location of day on earth? The earth and definitely not the sun. Sunlight is necessary but the sun makes no decision.

If you turn the laser off then the whole earth is dark (night). And when you turn the laser on again we find portion of the earth is still dark (night). Therefore, sun does not make night. Ayman violates this phenomenon when he says sun determined the night. Sunlight just eliminates a portion of earth?s darkness as determined by the earth (not sun)

If sun determines who get the light then how does the sun decide to give light to a deep underground facility. Also the effect of dark cloud needs to be explained.

Now case 2 the sun determines the location of day on earth

Take the laser light (sun) and move around the ball (earth) and you will see the location of day on earth is changing. This is sun determining day (not night). This is what Ayman is proposing. We all know this is false except Ayman, quickduck and siki, etc.

guest

Peace,

Peace everyone,

Quote from guest on Yesterday at 075718 PM
The sun does not determine day or night. Its job is to generate and emit light, period. The earth makes day by presenting parts of itself to the sun. The part that is hidden from the sun in night.

As everyone can see from his own contradictory words, Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely).

Peace,

Ayman

Here are some key points that can be inferred from your response

If you can detect a contradiction then you wouldn?t be making a contradiction. The fact is each and ever posts of yours has numerous contradiction. Just based on that logic, you claim of contradiction in my statement is nullified. You see, the contradiction pool is exhausted by you, you have used it all up, and there is nothing left for us to use. Thank you
Your focus is not finding the truth, you want people to glorify you and sing your song. Unless you change this behavior for the good, you will be humiliated in this world and a far worst awaits you in the hereafter
And when you said ?Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely)?, you behaved like a bully who has just lost a fight. You do not comprehend a simple matter and refused to accept the truth. And you are an unappreciative person ( you don?t admit when someone corrects your error)
Now that you could not show the word sun in 1712, and that the sun does not cause night, and that day is caused by earth?s rotation what is your new hypocrisy? Please enlighten us, keep us informed
Pretty soon I will issue you another challenge (you did not take the first one), if you accept you will be doomed (because you are a liar), if you refuse it you become a master hypocrite. Please stay tune

theNabster, why aren?t you chastising Ayman for slandering? I will give you the benifit of doubt, maybe you haven't read the post yet.

guest

Peace,

Quote from guest on Yesterday at 085308 PM

You have a comprehension problem. You react without understanding a matter. This is why your concept and the article is flawed. The SUN does not decide where on earth the day is. It is determined by the earth. Hope you get this simple matter. Otherwise tell us how we get a day on earth.

i'd make to you a tutorial video if only i had time. Because you seem having big problems with plain text !

One more time, please how Old are you ?

Why don?t you produce your explanation of how the sun makes the decision as to who gets the sunlight. When Push Comes To Shove you hide behind women's skirt - Why are you afraid to explain your theory. Because you know you will self destruct yourself from your contradictory writing. Looks like you are the one having problem with simple statement.

Ayman says quack and you go quack, quack.

quickduck

Peace,

The sun does not decide where on earth the day should be. It simply emits light in all direction at all time. In order for the sun to decide the location of day on earth it will have to go around the earth. And we know this is not true. If it were then we would have a chaotic solar system. Unfortunately, Ayman insists on sun going around the earth to satisfy his faulty concept in the quote. Ayman is trying very hard to disprove God?s system. He is trying to eliminate the truth. He will not succeed. The God has exposed his hypocrisy and exposed his blind follower quickduck and siki.

The statement in the above quote qualifies Ayman as the most ignorant and unintelligent person of the world. Ayman, you are hereby entered in the Guinness World Records as the most foolish person. You need to frame the quote and hang it on the wall of your living room.

I will use an example to illustrate the situation at hand.

Take a white round ball and call it the earth. And take laser pointer, fixed it at an angle and call it the sunlight (red laser light)

Now bring the white ball under the laser so that laser spot can be seen on the ball. We will call this lighted area the location of day on earth. If the earth did not move on its axis then we will have a fixed location day on earth at all time.

Now rotate the ball clockwise or counterclockwise and you will notice the location of day on earth is different than the initial position. Now who is determining the location of day on earth? The earth and definitely not the sun. Sunlight is necessary but the sun makes no decision.

If you turn the laser off then the whole earth is dark (night). And when you turn the laser on again we find portion of the earth is still dark (night). Therefore, sun does not make night. Ayman violates this phenomenon when he says sun determined the night. Sunlight just eliminates a portion of earth?s darkness as determined by the earth (not sun)

If sun determines who get the light then how does the sun decide to give light to a deep underground facility. Also the effect of dark cloud needs to be explained.

Now case 2 the sun determines the location of day on earth

Take the laser light (sun) and move around the ball (earth) and you will see the location of day on earth is changing. This is sun determining day (not night). This is what Ayman is proposing. We all know this is false except Ayman, quickduck and siki, etc.

waw !!! brilliant !!! i really cannot find the word to thank you for clarifying this !! the sun is fixed and does'nt orbit around the earth !?? the earth orbits around its axis and around the sun ??!!! Amazing !!! But Beware ! the 16th century catholic church could condamn you and execute you for this heresy !

MY DEAR GUEST , YOU ARE BREAKING THROUGH AN OPEN DOOR !! No one in this thread discusses those elementary facts, as they are already known to my 5 years old child.

IT takes too much stupidity to teach college students that 1 + 1 = 2...Altough no one of them said that it equals 3. it's only on your mind...

We all are sure about what you tried to scream at us, but what you cannot understand, is that for ALL EARTH CREATURES, IT IS THE SUN THAT DECIDES ABOUT NIGHT AND AND DAY ON EARTH, WHETHER THIS EARTH SPINS OR NOT !!!! One question can you feel the earth moving/spinning right now ?? if not, do you see the sun moving in the sky ?? if yes, so WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE ?? DO YOU WANT TO PROVE TO US THE SAME FACT THAT GALILEE WAS KILLED FOR ?? ARE YOU TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE, with YOUR INTELLIGENT LASER LIGHT AND WHITE BALLS, THE SAME THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART ???

Once again, i ask you the same question HOW OLD ARE YOU ??

Salam

DUMB & DUMBER is good movie , go watch it !!

guest

THE SAME THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART ???

You just insulted your master Ayman, read his posts, he doesn't know THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART.

And your and siki's questions imply you guys don't know it either.

guest

Peace,

We all are sure about what you tried to scream at us, but what you cannot understand, is that for ALL EARTH CREATURES, IT IS THE SUN THAT DECIDES ABOUT NIGHT AND AND DAY ON EARTH, WHETHER THIS EARTH SPINS OR NOT !!!! One question can you feel the earth moving/spinning right now ?? if not, do you see the sun moving in the sky ?? if yes, so WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE ?? DO YOU WANT TO PROVE TO US THE SAME FACT THAT GALILEE WAS KILLED FOR ?? ARE YOU TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE, with YOUR INTELLIGENT LASER LIGHT AND WHITE BALLS, THE SAME THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART ???

Hey quickduck, why don?t you ask your master Ayman to take the following challenge or better yet why don?t you tell Ayman that he is wrong since you know as much as a fifth grade student.

Peace Ayman,

First you say the summer solstice full moon follows the lower path across the sky. This is your so called Ramadan theory.

Then you say the TWO full moons that took the lowest path are BEFORE and AFTER the summer solstice. You just contradicted yourself. Instead of admitting the mistake you took pride in modifying your lousy theory. This is crazy, unrighteous, and hypocritical.

Now as for ?This fact is so indisputable that I don't even need to check the data through the link about.? I will give you a challenge to determine how certain you are about the stated position. Here is the challenge DO YOU AGREE TO WITHRAW YOUR ARTICLE AND APOLOGIZE TO US IF I PROVE YOU WRONG? Just give me the word and I will provide the evidence.

noble

Peace guest (Ahmed B?)
i have no need for your doubt
your replies are unconvincing and reactive.
the recurring themes in the Quran are those of patterns that obey rules, and in the case of a pure lunar calendar
the seasonal patterns are broken from one year to the next, that in itself is enough for me to discount it,
there are enough clues in the Quran to show that a luni-solar calendar is what Allah means when he says
the count of the year is twelve months.
You must take into account of the harvest periods, the farming periods, the planning for seasonal changes factoring in
droughts and irrigations, all need a calendar that is solar, the lunar part is used for the counting of the segmentation in between in months using lunar months and adjusting therewith.
This is a logical, rational system...
If we get the time line of the Prophet right, we will know for sure that luni-solar was correct, but wahabbism has made any
investigative attempts sacrilegious, go figure...
and please Mr guest stop name calling people, you are not the Prophet oki? for all intents and purposes, you might be
the guilty party here..., and by the way, nothing to be ashamed of, we all have an ego, and it tears us towards bad ways, you might be jealous of Ayman, who knows...
I wonder why, he gets a lot of stuff wrong, but at least he is not a coward, he discusses and challenges things, unlike being a sheep, and a follower to sheep mehhhh )

guest

Peace theNabster,

Peace guest (Ahmed B?)

What is this; I mean what?s in the bracket.

your replies are unconvincing and reactive.

My replies are the truth to the best of my knowledge and consistent with the Quran. Maybe you cannot handle the truth. That is you problem.

the recurring themes in the Quran are those of patterns that obey rules, and in the case of a pure lunar calendar
the seasonal patterns are broken from one year to the next, that in itself is enough for me to discount it,

Where is the verse that tells us that the religious rite has to be in synch with the seasons?

You must take into account of the harvest periods, the farming periods, the planning for seasonal changes factoring in
droughts and irrigations, all need a calendar that is solar, ..

Go ahead and use solar calendar for agriculture need. No one is preventing you from this. Just don?t mix the agriculture with the religion. It?s that simple.

This is a logical, rational system...

Luni-solar is illogical and irrational system.

please Mr guest stop name calling people, ??

Why aren?t you asking Ayman to do the same? Are you afraid of him or is he your idol?

you are not the Prophet oki?

I never claimed that I am a Prophet. You are a lying sick person. Maybe you are confusing me with your idol.

all intents and purposes, you might be
the guilty party here...,

If you say following Quran without twisting its words = guilty then I am guilty.

you might be jealous of Ayman, who knows...

Why, why, why,??What does he have other than lies and bad behavior. This is a mighty mistake on your part.

I wonder why, he gets a lot of stuff wrong,

Why did satan got it wrong? The answer is pride and ego. This is a good observation on your part though.

Samia

Dear Samia,

I want to learn and hope you dont mind to reply )

Is it wrong if i understand the verse 2203 as follows

Minimum "ma3doodat" >>> two days
Maximum "ma3doodat" >>> varies (3 or 4 or 7 etc) but preferably 10, however 10 is not a mandatory.

The only 10 that I consider a preferred count was just my understanding base on "hint" in 2196 and 892. (is there anything else?)

However 10 days in 2196 is for hajj I am not sure whether I can overconfidantly say so that 10 days apply to Ramadhan as well.

My understanding at this moment is that Allah give His mercy (leeway) for us to decide the max no of days to our personal preference/ability this time around, but minimum is two. (This stand is still subject to debate/correction)

On other note Allah is very specific with the number of siyaam ie. 3 days (589), 10 days (2196). Any feedback appreciated.

Peace, Ashraf

Welcome back! It's been almost a year...

I wouldn't consider 2 as part of ma3duudat, since it's mentioned as an exception for special circumsatnces of what would be accepted outside the ma3duudaat.
Minimum of ma3duudat 3
Maximum 10