Hot/"ramadan" Answer

siki

Belh

You seem quiet intelligent, but why cant you seem to grasp a simple thing,

Month is a time period between two shahrs , and as this is not fixed, so God does not use it , because, if he tells you to carry out something for , let us say two months,

How many days would you count ? 58,59,or 60?

You see above, that would create confusion in your mind, and you know God , and Quran, HE/ IT does not create/leave any confusion for us.

siki

Ashraf

Salaam,

Dear Ayman or anyone who can share the knowledge,

..The Arabic word "kaab" has the same basic meaning as "kaaba". In Arabic the word "kaab" is used in expressions like "kaab al-wadi" to mean "the base of the valley" and in "kaab al-hithaa" to mean "the base of the shoe". So the word "kaab" essentially means "base"..

Need clarification on word "Ka3bain" (Dual - "Base" or "Ankle" ?) as in 56 above.

May I know the difference between "maraafiq" vs "maraafiqain". What statement that we could deduce from this wording structure. Apology if this have been discussed before becoz couldnt find it.

Peace, Ashraf

siki

Salaam,

Dear Ayman or anyone who can share the knowledge,

Need clarification on word "Ka3bain" (Dual - "Base" or "Ankle" ?) as in 56 above.

May I know the difference between "maraafiq" vs "maraafiqain". What statement that we could deduce from this wording structure. Apology if this have been discussed before becoz couldnt find it.

Peace, Ashraf

I suggest , that this should be asked and discussed in appropriate thread.

siki

Ashraf

Here is a verse for you
2203

And remember God in a few days . But if any one hastens to leave in two days, there is no blame on him, and if any one stays on, there is no blame on him, if his aim is to do right. Then fear God, and know that you will surely be gathered unto Him.

It's clear from this verse that less than "ma3doodat" will be 2.
OK.This time I am off this topic of "ma3dood/ma3doodat". Sorry if I refrain from responding to you next time.
You do not ask to learn, but to argue. I do not have time for that.

Dear Samia,

I want to learn and hope you dont mind to reply )

Is it wrong if i understand the verse 2203 as follows

Minimum "ma3doodat" >>> two days
Maximum "ma3doodat" >>> varies (3 or 4 or 7 etc) but preferably 10, however 10 is not a mandatory.

The only 10 that I consider a preferred count was just my understanding base on "hint" in 2196 and 892. (is there anything else?)

However 10 days in 2196 is for hajj I am not sure whether I can overconfidantly say so that 10 days apply to Ramadhan as well.

My understanding at this moment is that Allah give His mercy (leeway) for us to decide the max no of days to our personal preference/ability this time around, but minimum is two. (This stand is still subject to debate/correction)

On other note Allah is very specific with the number of siyaam ie. 3 days (589), 10 days (2196). Any feedback appreciated.

Peace, Ashraf

unknownuser

Peace siki,

Month is a time period between two shahrs , and as this is not fixed, so God does not use it , because, if he tells you to carry out something for , let us say two months,

How many days would you count ? 58,59,or 60?

You see above, that would create confusion in your mind, and you know God , and Quran, HE/ IT does not create/leave any confusion for us.

60 dawns to sunsets (days Qur?an); .061 or 1.4hrs includes the 60th dawn; 2 lunar months = 59.06118 days (24hrs).

Oldest lunar calendar identified http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/975360.stm

http//news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/975000/images/_975360_las300a.jpg

Now your turn ? how many days are they free to travel from the day of proclamation?

92 so travel in the earth four ashhurin (full moons according to you)?
93 And proclamation from God and His messenger to the people (on) day the hajj the greatest?

siki

Peace siki,

60 dawns to sunsets (days Qur?an); .061 or 1.4hrs includes the 60th dawn; 2 lunar months = 59.06118 days (24hrs).

Oldest lunar calendar identified http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/975360.stm

http//news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/975000/images/_975360_las300a.jpg

Now your turn ? how many days are they free to travel from the day of proclamation?

92 so travel in the earth four ashhurin (full moons according to you)?
93 And proclamation from God and His messenger to the people (on) day the hajj the greatest?

where/what is your criteria for making a month as of 30 days?

siki

guest

Peace,

The day and night are determined by the sun and they have nothing to do with the moon.

The sun does not decide where on earth the day should be. It simply emits light in all direction at all time. In order for the sun to decide the location of day on earth it will have to go around the earth. And we know this is not true. If it were then we would have a chaotic solar system. Unfortunately, Ayman insists on sun going around the earth to satisfy his faulty concept in the quote. Ayman is trying very hard to disprove God?s system. He is trying to eliminate the truth. He will not succeed. The God has exposed his hypocrisy and exposed his blind follower quickduck and siki.

The statement in the above quote qualifies Ayman as the most ignorant and unintelligent person of the world. Ayman, you are hereby entered in the Guinness World Records as the most foolish person. You need to frame the quote and hang it on the wall of your living room.

I will use an example to illustrate the situation at hand.

Take a white round ball and call it the earth. And take laser pointer, fixed it at an angle and call it the sunlight (red laser light)

Now bring the white ball under the laser so that laser spot can be seen on the ball. We will call this lighted area the location of day on earth. If the earth did not move on its axis then we will have a fixed location day on earth at all time.

Now rotate the ball clockwise or counterclockwise and you will notice the location of day on earth is different than the initial position. Now who is determining the location of day on earth? The earth and definitely not the sun. Sunlight is necessary but the sun makes no decision.

If you turn the laser off then the whole earth is dark (night). And when you turn the laser on again we find portion of the earth is still dark (night). Therefore, sun does not make night. Ayman violates this phenomenon when he says sun determined the night. Sunlight just eliminates a portion of earth?s darkness as determined by the earth (not sun)

If sun determines who get the light then how does the sun decide to give light to a deep underground facility. Also the effect of dark cloud needs to be explained.

Now case 2 the sun determines the location of day on earth

Take the laser light (sun) and move around the ball (earth) and you will see the location of day on earth is changing. This is sun determining day (not night). This is what Ayman is proposing. We all know this is false except Ayman, quickduck and siki, etc.

guest

Peace,

Peace everyone,

Quote from guest on Yesterday at 075718 PM
The sun does not determine day or night. Its job is to generate and emit light, period. The earth makes day by presenting parts of itself to the sun. The part that is hidden from the sun in night.

As everyone can see from his own contradictory words, Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely).

Peace,

Ayman

Here are some key points that can be inferred from your response

If you can detect a contradiction then you wouldn?t be making a contradiction. The fact is each and ever posts of yours has numerous contradiction. Just based on that logic, you claim of contradiction in my statement is nullified. You see, the contradiction pool is exhausted by you, you have used it all up, and there is nothing left for us to use. Thank you
Your focus is not finding the truth, you want people to glorify you and sing your song. Unless you change this behavior for the good, you will be humiliated in this world and a far worst awaits you in the hereafter
And when you said ?Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely)?, you behaved like a bully who has just lost a fight. You do not comprehend a simple matter and refused to accept the truth. And you are an unappreciative person ( you don?t admit when someone corrects your error)
Now that you could not show the word sun in 1712, and that the sun does not cause night, and that day is caused by earth?s rotation what is your new hypocrisy? Please enlighten us, keep us informed
Pretty soon I will issue you another challenge (you did not take the first one), if you accept you will be doomed (because you are a liar), if you refuse it you become a master hypocrite. Please stay tune

theNabster, why aren?t you chastising Ayman for slandering? I will give you the benifit of doubt, maybe you haven't read the post yet.

guest

Peace,

Quote from guest on Yesterday at 085308 PM

You have a comprehension problem. You react without understanding a matter. This is why your concept and the article is flawed. The SUN does not decide where on earth the day is. It is determined by the earth. Hope you get this simple matter. Otherwise tell us how we get a day on earth.

i'd make to you a tutorial video if only i had time. Because you seem having big problems with plain text !

One more time, please how Old are you ?

Why don?t you produce your explanation of how the sun makes the decision as to who gets the sunlight. When Push Comes To Shove you hide behind women's skirt - Why are you afraid to explain your theory. Because you know you will self destruct yourself from your contradictory writing. Looks like you are the one having problem with simple statement.

Ayman says quack and you go quack, quack.

quickduck

Peace,

The sun does not decide where on earth the day should be. It simply emits light in all direction at all time. In order for the sun to decide the location of day on earth it will have to go around the earth. And we know this is not true. If it were then we would have a chaotic solar system. Unfortunately, Ayman insists on sun going around the earth to satisfy his faulty concept in the quote. Ayman is trying very hard to disprove God?s system. He is trying to eliminate the truth. He will not succeed. The God has exposed his hypocrisy and exposed his blind follower quickduck and siki.

The statement in the above quote qualifies Ayman as the most ignorant and unintelligent person of the world. Ayman, you are hereby entered in the Guinness World Records as the most foolish person. You need to frame the quote and hang it on the wall of your living room.

I will use an example to illustrate the situation at hand.

Take a white round ball and call it the earth. And take laser pointer, fixed it at an angle and call it the sunlight (red laser light)

Now bring the white ball under the laser so that laser spot can be seen on the ball. We will call this lighted area the location of day on earth. If the earth did not move on its axis then we will have a fixed location day on earth at all time.

Now rotate the ball clockwise or counterclockwise and you will notice the location of day on earth is different than the initial position. Now who is determining the location of day on earth? The earth and definitely not the sun. Sunlight is necessary but the sun makes no decision.

If you turn the laser off then the whole earth is dark (night). And when you turn the laser on again we find portion of the earth is still dark (night). Therefore, sun does not make night. Ayman violates this phenomenon when he says sun determined the night. Sunlight just eliminates a portion of earth?s darkness as determined by the earth (not sun)

If sun determines who get the light then how does the sun decide to give light to a deep underground facility. Also the effect of dark cloud needs to be explained.

Now case 2 the sun determines the location of day on earth

Take the laser light (sun) and move around the ball (earth) and you will see the location of day on earth is changing. This is sun determining day (not night). This is what Ayman is proposing. We all know this is false except Ayman, quickduck and siki, etc.

waw !!! brilliant !!! i really cannot find the word to thank you for clarifying this !! the sun is fixed and does'nt orbit around the earth !?? the earth orbits around its axis and around the sun ??!!! Amazing !!! But Beware ! the 16th century catholic church could condamn you and execute you for this heresy !

MY DEAR GUEST , YOU ARE BREAKING THROUGH AN OPEN DOOR !! No one in this thread discusses those elementary facts, as they are already known to my 5 years old child.

IT takes too much stupidity to teach college students that 1 + 1 = 2...Altough no one of them said that it equals 3. it's only on your mind...

We all are sure about what you tried to scream at us, but what you cannot understand, is that for ALL EARTH CREATURES, IT IS THE SUN THAT DECIDES ABOUT NIGHT AND AND DAY ON EARTH, WHETHER THIS EARTH SPINS OR NOT !!!! One question can you feel the earth moving/spinning right now ?? if not, do you see the sun moving in the sky ?? if yes, so WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE ?? DO YOU WANT TO PROVE TO US THE SAME FACT THAT GALILEE WAS KILLED FOR ?? ARE YOU TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE, with YOUR INTELLIGENT LASER LIGHT AND WHITE BALLS, THE SAME THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART ???

Once again, i ask you the same question HOW OLD ARE YOU ??

Salam

DUMB & DUMBER is good movie , go watch it !!

guest

THE SAME THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART ???

You just insulted your master Ayman, read his posts, he doesn't know THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART.

And your and siki's questions imply you guys don't know it either.

guest

Peace,

We all are sure about what you tried to scream at us, but what you cannot understand, is that for ALL EARTH CREATURES, IT IS THE SUN THAT DECIDES ABOUT NIGHT AND AND DAY ON EARTH, WHETHER THIS EARTH SPINS OR NOT !!!! One question can you feel the earth moving/spinning right now ?? if not, do you see the sun moving in the sky ?? if yes, so WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE ?? DO YOU WANT TO PROVE TO US THE SAME FACT THAT GALILEE WAS KILLED FOR ?? ARE YOU TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE, with YOUR INTELLIGENT LASER LIGHT AND WHITE BALLS, THE SAME THING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENT KNOW BY HEART ???

Hey quickduck, why don?t you ask your master Ayman to take the following challenge or better yet why don?t you tell Ayman that he is wrong since you know as much as a fifth grade student.

Peace Ayman,

First you say the summer solstice full moon follows the lower path across the sky. This is your so called Ramadan theory.

Then you say the TWO full moons that took the lowest path are BEFORE and AFTER the summer solstice. You just contradicted yourself. Instead of admitting the mistake you took pride in modifying your lousy theory. This is crazy, unrighteous, and hypocritical.

Now as for ?This fact is so indisputable that I don't even need to check the data through the link about.? I will give you a challenge to determine how certain you are about the stated position. Here is the challenge DO YOU AGREE TO WITHRAW YOUR ARTICLE AND APOLOGIZE TO US IF I PROVE YOU WRONG? Just give me the word and I will provide the evidence.

noble

Peace guest (Ahmed B?)
i have no need for your doubt
your replies are unconvincing and reactive.
the recurring themes in the Quran are those of patterns that obey rules, and in the case of a pure lunar calendar
the seasonal patterns are broken from one year to the next, that in itself is enough for me to discount it,
there are enough clues in the Quran to show that a luni-solar calendar is what Allah means when he says
the count of the year is twelve months.
You must take into account of the harvest periods, the farming periods, the planning for seasonal changes factoring in
droughts and irrigations, all need a calendar that is solar, the lunar part is used for the counting of the segmentation in between in months using lunar months and adjusting therewith.
This is a logical, rational system...
If we get the time line of the Prophet right, we will know for sure that luni-solar was correct, but wahabbism has made any
investigative attempts sacrilegious, go figure...
and please Mr guest stop name calling people, you are not the Prophet oki? for all intents and purposes, you might be
the guilty party here..., and by the way, nothing to be ashamed of, we all have an ego, and it tears us towards bad ways, you might be jealous of Ayman, who knows...
I wonder why, he gets a lot of stuff wrong, but at least he is not a coward, he discusses and challenges things, unlike being a sheep, and a follower to sheep mehhhh )

guest

Peace theNabster,

Peace guest (Ahmed B?)

What is this; I mean what?s in the bracket.

your replies are unconvincing and reactive.

My replies are the truth to the best of my knowledge and consistent with the Quran. Maybe you cannot handle the truth. That is you problem.

the recurring themes in the Quran are those of patterns that obey rules, and in the case of a pure lunar calendar
the seasonal patterns are broken from one year to the next, that in itself is enough for me to discount it,

Where is the verse that tells us that the religious rite has to be in synch with the seasons?

You must take into account of the harvest periods, the farming periods, the planning for seasonal changes factoring in
droughts and irrigations, all need a calendar that is solar, ..

Go ahead and use solar calendar for agriculture need. No one is preventing you from this. Just don?t mix the agriculture with the religion. It?s that simple.

This is a logical, rational system...

Luni-solar is illogical and irrational system.

please Mr guest stop name calling people, ??

Why aren?t you asking Ayman to do the same? Are you afraid of him or is he your idol?

you are not the Prophet oki?

I never claimed that I am a Prophet. You are a lying sick person. Maybe you are confusing me with your idol.

all intents and purposes, you might be
the guilty party here...,

If you say following Quran without twisting its words = guilty then I am guilty.

you might be jealous of Ayman, who knows...

Why, why, why,??What does he have other than lies and bad behavior. This is a mighty mistake on your part.

I wonder why, he gets a lot of stuff wrong,

Why did satan got it wrong? The answer is pride and ego. This is a good observation on your part though.

Samia

Dear Samia,

I want to learn and hope you dont mind to reply )

Is it wrong if i understand the verse 2203 as follows

Minimum "ma3doodat" >>> two days
Maximum "ma3doodat" >>> varies (3 or 4 or 7 etc) but preferably 10, however 10 is not a mandatory.

The only 10 that I consider a preferred count was just my understanding base on "hint" in 2196 and 892. (is there anything else?)

However 10 days in 2196 is for hajj I am not sure whether I can overconfidantly say so that 10 days apply to Ramadhan as well.

My understanding at this moment is that Allah give His mercy (leeway) for us to decide the max no of days to our personal preference/ability this time around, but minimum is two. (This stand is still subject to debate/correction)

On other note Allah is very specific with the number of siyaam ie. 3 days (589), 10 days (2196). Any feedback appreciated.

Peace, Ashraf

Welcome back! It's been almost a year...

I wouldn't consider 2 as part of ma3duudat, since it's mentioned as an exception for special circumsatnces of what would be accepted outside the ma3duudaat.
Minimum of ma3duudat 3
Maximum 10

guest

Peace,

Light determines day and night.

No, light (sunlight) only removes darkness/night from a object if the object expose itself to sunlight.

Darkness exist by itself.

ayman

Peace Ashraf,

Dear Ayman or anyone who can share the knowledge,

Need clarification on word "Ka3bain" (Dual - "Base" or "Ankle" ?) as in 56 above.

The base of the foot is the "heel" not the "ankle".

May I know the difference between "maraafiq" vs "maraafiqain". What statement that we could deduce from this wording structure. Apology if this have been discussed before becoz couldnt find it.

Plural and dual are not always used in accordance with Classical Arabic rules in the great reading. Maybe Samia can help but off topic here.

Peace,

Ayman

quickduck

Peace,
No, light (sunlight) only removes darkness/night from a object if the object expose itself to sunlight.

Darkness exist by itself.

" Darkness does not exist . Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton 's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

You have to be proud of yourself, you've just debunked Albert Einstein !

ayman

Peace Belal, everyone,

rotfl This is stupidity as it can be... rotfl

If you are going to parade your ignorance on the forum then do it in small fonts. Especially, since you know that you didn?t dare to say anything about the word ?yarkh? in this very familiar Arabic inscription that I provided in the same post

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.html

Also, unless you enjoy humiliating yourself, when saying things like that in big fonts, you had better be knowledgeable about the subject and be 100% sure that you are right. You will see why next.

Can anyone, including Ayman and his followers, quote any of the above words in Quran...If you cannot, and you will not, then would this make you feel that Ayman is underestimating your intelligence by claiming that the above language is Authantic Arabic like the Quran Language.

So according to your own criteria, all I have to do is show ANY word that is in the great reading to prove that you are overestimating your own intelligence. Now read the following line that you quoted

( bi)n / (b) akhayal / rahman / wa rakhaw / zalan / salthany / w sathya/ ws

The word ?rahman? as an attribute of the god can be found many times in the great reading (11, etc). So I did quote you ?any? word that is in the great reading and I can stop right here after proving to everyone that you are overestimating your own intelligence and underestimating your ignorance. However, I will continue so as to do you a favor and help you snap out of any delusions you may still have about your intelligence. You will thank me later when you wizen up. )

w yement / wa r'a rab hamw / Twadam / w thamat / satro / zn / satran / K'ghazow

Ma'ndam / Ghazwatn / rab'atan / b'warkhan / Zthbatan /Kafa saadu / kl/ bani amrm

Wa zaki/ malikn/ abjabar / b ainam/ kadat/ wain/ w basharm / bin hasahanm/ bainm

San dam/ wa mardam / wa hadaru/ qadami / jayshan/ alia bani yamram/ kadat/ wail/ b wad /samrakh / wa mardam/ wa sadam/ b wad..

B manhaj / tarban/ w zabahow / w asarw / w ghanamw / zaisam / wa makhdah/ malakin/ b halban/ wa danw

Ka zalam/ maidam / wrahanw / wa badanahaw / nwa sa'aham mw / amram / bin/ mazran.

Wa rahanamw / bin haw / wa sata khalafw / ala/ ma'dam/ wa qafalw/ bin/ hal.

( bi)n / (b) akhayal / rahman / wa rakhaw / zalan / salthany / w sathya/ ws

The following words in the inscription appear in the great reading

Tawd mountain (2663)
Satro wrote (681)
Saadu repelled/confronted (2217, etc.)
Zaki promoted/bettered (243, etc.)
Malikan the king (2246, etc.)
Wad valley (1437, etc.)
Zabahow slaughtered (267, etc.)
Asarow took prisoner (285, etc.)
Ghanamw took the spoils of war (4100, etc.)
Danw come near (538, etc.)
Rahanw took as collateral (2283)
Khalafw appointed (230, etc.)
Khayl power/horses (860)

In addition to the above, words such as ?jayshan? (army), ?ghazwat? (raid) and others are routinely used even in modern Arabic today. So Belal not only ignores the pre-Islamic language of the great reading but also modern Arabic spoken by native Arabic speakers.

As a side note The person who did the transcription and transliteration didn?t do a good job. Firstly, he confused transcription and transliteration and switched them. What Belal copied and pasted should actually be called the transliteration and not the transcription. Second, he made many obvious mistakes in the transliteration. For example, he mistakenly attached the Alif of ?asarw? (take prisoner) to the preceding ?and? (?w?) in line vi and he mistakenly attaches a non existent Alif to ?khayl? in line ix, to name a few mistakes. All those errors can be easily spotted by looking at the transcription (which he mistakenly called transliteration). The person who did the page is probably the Webmaster or the museum curator and doesn?t seem to have good knowledge about pre-Islamic Arabian dialects. Judging from the hypercorrections that he inserted in the transliteration (for example ar-rahman for rahmanan), the guy is certainly a native Arabic speaker.

Is this what do you call Arabic!!! You have lost your Brain...Can any one tell me if this looks like any writtings of Quran
Let us see if Free- Minds Moderators will do something about this

You are only exposing that you ignore the difference between language and script. The script is irrelevant. For example, ?Bism allah alrahman alrahim? is in Arabic language despite being in English script. You are also further confirming your ignorance since the Arabian Musnad script of the inscription is the real Arabic script which has the full 28 letters of Arabic represented. On the other hand, the Nabataean Aramaic script that was used to write the great reading is a foreign script and therefore it doesn?t have all the letters of the Arabic language represented (Aramaic only has 22 letters). This is why dotting has to be used to disambiguate the letters, just like the apostrophe is used in English with the letter A to disambiguate ?Ain and Alif.

If you truly wants to know what is the pre-islamic arabic, study this--Jesus Language, Aramic.
http//sepehr.mohamadi.name/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/aat_table.jpg

You are in over your head in things that you have zero knowledge of. Can you please show everyone where the Arabic letters Thaa , Khaa , Thaal , Dhad , Thah and Ghain are in your table? As I said, unlike the Sabaic South Arabia dialect, Aramaic (and the Nabataean Aramaic variation) are not even Arabian languages. They are foreign languages and therefore only have 22 letters while Arabian dialects have 28 letters. Unlike you, I will not lie and say that you are brainless since the god gave you a brain. I will say that if you used your god-given brain then you would have seen this fact from your own figure instead of just blindly posting stuff you have no knowledge of.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Eid,

Perpetual straw-man arguments ? ?so do you think? then overlay your thoughts as being mine. Read context, was responding to your accusation of making fun using the word ?hot? which you use ?scorching? and called this thread Hot/"ramadan".

What straw-man? You were defending the sectarian arbitrary calendar where ?ramadhan? can occur at any haphazard time, even in the cold of winter. Either you believe that the god uses the word ?scorching/hot? haphazardly and ?ramadhan? can be during the cold of winter or you agree with me that the timing for ?ramadhan/scorching/hot must be during the hot time of the year. There is no other choice and this is irrespective of whether ?shahr? means full-moon, crescent, or month.

That is issuing a fatwa -- the blind and those in cloudy weather are NOT obligated to fast.

Using your logic, I could also say that you are issuing a ?fatwa? FORCING the blind and those in cloudy weather to fast.

Qur?an has a provision for those not able; e.g. feed the poor or today, had acid indigestion, auto reacted, reached for a glass of water, realized too late and broke my fast; no big deal hope to make it up another day same as a few days missed due to being ?under the weather.?
You refuted and contradicted yourself in countless earlier posts and threads?
Suggest a re-write a new thread ?Hot/Ramadan II? since this topic is all over the place and cluttered.

I suggest that you reread 2185 and see that it clearly says ?man shahid minkum? (whoever witnesses from amongst you). What is the purpose of saying whoever witnesses from amongst you, unless some amongst you will not witness? Who are the people AMONGST YOU (the believers) who will not witness according to you? If witnessing was not required and just being present is required then the statement is redundant and unnecessary and the god could have simply said ?fast? and that would be it. You are not blind nor it was cloudy during the night of the scorching full-moon and yet you didn?t witness it and you weren?t even aware of it so you are not obligated to fast (but absolutely you still can fast anyway).

You changed your mind on this too as you did with hajj (debate/feast) which your current restriction varies approximately from June/July 21 to Sept/Oct 18 depending on the year?
21-Jun
21-Jul
20-Aug
18-Sep
18-Oct
April 25 - 26, 2009 Youth turkey-hunting weekend ? No Protection!
May 3 - May 31 Spring gobbler season (wild turkey) ? No Protection!
Sept. 1 - November 24, 2009 Black bear/end dates vary for method ? No Protection 1-2 months!

Sept. 2009 - Jan. 2010 Waterfowl/dates vary by species and zone ? No Protection 3 months!
Sept. 26-27, 2009 Youth waterfowl weekend (Saturday and Sunday)
Sept. 15 - Dec. 15 Deer/archery ? No Protection 2 months!
Sept. 15 - Dec. 15 Fall turkey/archery ? No Protection 2 months!
Oct. 12 - Oct. 16, 2009 Fall turkey/shotgun (in certain WMUs only); Monday ? Friday
Sept. 2009 - March 2010 Small game/dates vary by species and region ? No Protection!
Oct. 1 - Dec. 31 Pheasant ? No Protection!
Oct. 17 - Oct. 25 Moose (by permit only) ? No Protection!
Oct. 24 - 25 Youth deer-hunting weekend ? No Protection!
Oct. 31 - Nov. 10 Deer/muzzleloader (note -- opens Nov. 2 in WMU A) ? No Protection!
Nov. 11 - Dec. 6 Deer/firearms (note -- closes Nov. 29 in WMU A) ? No Protection!
Also see prior post?

You are misreading the data. The info gives the times when hunting is ALLOWED not when hunting is restricted. Now read again and see how the protection mostly overlaps except a few times for the animals whose hunting season starts in mid September and the difference is only for a couple of weeks on average.

Absolutely agree, find it appalling the worst of disbelief including the mindless ocean/sea hunting to feed people?s fetishes/appetite for the exotic and renewed my Greenpeace membership today which was doubled by a most generous supporter.
638 And (there is) not from a walker/creeper/crawler (creature) in the earth and nor (a) bird (that) flies with its two wings, except (they are) nations similar/alike/equal to you, We did not neglect in The Book from a thing, then to their Lord they be gathered.

I agree completely. So by the same token, the restriction is about protecting wild life all over the world from humans who hunt them for food during the period of the FOUR inviolable ?shahr? and not just around Mecca and only on the arbitrary days from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijjah to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah while people are walking around half-naked wearing nothing but towels as the sectarians whose timing you are defending are proposing. Otherwise, there is no purpose of the god clearly decreeing FOUR inviolable ?shahr? and if your understanding is correct then he would have just clearly said ?from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijjah to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and only in the vicinity of Mecca?.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman