Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace,
so, bro, on the contrary, it was very easy especially in that area of the world to know precisely the longest day and shortest night.
You too need to think before you speak
SalamThe length of days around summer solstice is the same i.e. June 19 thru June 22 the day lengths are equal. How do you determine which is the longest day. If you factor in the full moon around June solstice, an error of 30 days is a certainty. You get more accurate system if you don't use the June solstice in the primitive days.
I posted the following on August 31, 2009 @ 033747
Now, please refute the below statement and tell us how primitive people determined the summer solstice accurately.
Unlike the equinox, the solstice time is not easy to determine. The changes in Solar declination become smaller as the sun gets closer to its maximum/minimum declination. The days before and after the solstice, the declination speed is less than 30 arcseconds/day which is less than 1/60th of the angular size of the sun, or the equivalent to just 2 seconds of right ascension.
This difference is hardly detectable with indirect viewing based devices like sextant equipped with a vernier, and impossible with more traditional tools like a gnomon or an astrolabe. It is also hard to detect the changes on sunrise/sunset azimuth due to the atmospheric refraction changes. Those accuracy issues render impossible to determine the solstice day based on observations made within the 3 (or even 5) days surrounding the solstice, without the use of more complex tools.
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Peace guest
The answer shouts in your face.
After a first few observations, take the first day that came, and each year adjust...
Do nor overestimate those guys from the past. They were very good at figuring out patterns, what they lacked in technology, they made up with acumen and craftsmanship...
By the way, there is nothing in the Quran that imposes a particular calendar on us, and so if it is easier with the Equinox, I say start counting from the Spring or Autumn Equinox.
Still Ramadan will be at the scorching month. -
Peace,
By the way, there is nothing in the Quran that imposes a particular calendar on us, and so if it is easier with the Equinox, I say start counting from the Spring or Autumn Equinox.
You just defeated Ayman's theory.
I don't agree with you on the hot month.
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Peace guest,
nobody is defeating anybody.
calendars are set up by organisations approved which approve standards nowadays.
in the old days, it was set up to suit kings and rulers' fancy, or by whoever had the power at the time.
you, me and ayman are at the moment just little pawns, who are being tested.
we do not know Allah's grand design or end game.
for sure, it does not include the sectarians, otherwise, they wouldn't have gone from ignominy to ignominy
since the destruction of the Abassides.
The Fatimides were big traitors and fought against their own brethren to give away Jerusalem.
The Shia split, and formed their own fantasy and mythology (based on a set of hadith mind you, charming).
Then came the Wahabis who also betrayed the Ottomans the same way the Fatimids betrayed the Muslims of their day...
Are these the signs of a people that God will choose as His Peacemakers on Earth, I doubt it?Ayman's proposal is not a theory, but it is based on Signs that He extracted from the Quran. I personally am not very good at astronomy, I can follow just, so I will be lying to say that I can vouch for it 100%, so you are telling me it is not practical, so if it is not, and you are a man of good faith, and you know what you are talking about, and you did your due diligence about the way people of old computed time, and you came to this conclusion, then I will have to agree with you...
However, if your intention, is to debunk just because you have made up your mind already, and no matter what, you will be choosing something the majority of the current non-thinking relying on scholars majority is doing, then, you are a danger to yourself and to those who listen to you...
Ramadan is the only word referring to a month in the Quran, that also means scorching hot, but you are stubborn enough to ignore this fact, that gives me a clue about your character though...
And Allah knows best... -
Peace Belal and Guest,
I will respond to both of you to save time since it doesn't matter what specific points you guys post because it is all a bunch of nonsense anyway.
It seems that both Ayaman and Nabster are not up for the challange and running away from answering very simple Two Questions in a straight forward way.
Her are my humbled answers to the two questions
30 month (moon cycle) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 moon cycle = 480 month30 month (Gregorian months) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 Gregorian months = 480 monthWhat you posted can be applied to any calendar. So the only thing you proved is that your are using fallacious circular reasoning.
I know there are many of you out their who can identify that Ayman and his followers are trying to twist every Quranic verse to fit their ideology that has been promoted for the past 400 years or more...The ideology that represent Satin's Oath that he took upon himself to mislead Adams's sons and daughter from God's well-established guidance.
If I misunderstood Ayman and his followers, then let them prove me wrong by providing straight forward answers to my two CORRELATED Questions...otherwise, this Thread should be closed and lift for the readers to decide their own religion. Unless this happened by the help of Free-Minds Moderators, this thread will continue to be the battle ground for Satin to spread Stupidity and misguidance among Adam's Children.
May God complete His Light and Spread His Mercy upon all of those who are seeking his Truth. sunIf Guest and you are really sincere and think that you are not stupid and are not misguided followers of satan, then instead of continuously spewing nonsense on this thread and being obsessed with me and what I think, just forget about me and explain to everyone the following
How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
If you can do it then I will admit that I was wrong and follow your timing. Surely this should be a piece of cake for two bright guys like you. Fair enough?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace ayman
I second that...
there is nothing more sickening than the ignorance of the stubborn...
Peace Belal and Guest,
I will respond to both of you to save time since it doesn't matter what specific points you guys post because it is all a bunch of nonsense anyway.
30 month (Gregorian months) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 Gregorian months = 480 monthWhat you posted can be applied to any calendar. So the only thing you proved is that your are using fallacious circular reasoning.
If Guest and you are really sincere and think that you are not stupid and are not misguided followers of satan, then instead of continuously spewing nonsense on this thread and being obsessed with me and what I think, just forget about me and explain to everyone the following
How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order of the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
If you can do it then I will admit that I was wrong and follow your timing. Surely this should be a piece of cake for two bright guys like you. Fair enough?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Belal and Guest,
I will respond to both of you to save time since it doesn't matter what specific points you guys post because it is all a bunch of nonsense anyway.
30 month (Gregorian months) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 Gregorian months = 480 monthPeace all,
Ayman, it seems that you are trying to ignore your own theory, Shahar = Full Moon and not a MONTH, when answering my two Questions !
Is it because, using your theory to answer the two question would put you in position that you would have to refute it?
Be honest with yourself and us, and explain why your theory cannot be used to answer the two questions...And if you do so, you will earn my and everyone respect.
PS I was imam for a while
rotfl I knew it...By the way, you still sound like one.
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If you can do it then I will admit that I was wrong and follow your timing. Surely this should be a piece of cake for two bright guys like you. Fair enough?
Thank you for your valuable proposal...I promise you that I will answer it again, but after you answer my two question using your theory Shahar= One Full Moon.
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Peace belH
Do not laugh too soon, I was leading Professors and Phd students in a Western University, and even with them
they considered me too progressive for their comfort.
But I do not have to justify myself to you, you are a failure so far as Allah's testing is concerned, which is worse than
any failure you will get from academia or engineering.
You have the complete wrong attitude to looking for the Truth, you think it is first within you, and you try to confirm it,
worse you do your utmost to cling to it.
The Truth is with Allah's and He has given you tools that you misuse pretty badly, even the tool of humility,
you do not seem to have, you are so cocky about your self righteousness that you refuse to contemplate
the possibility to look for another approach.
And Allah will ask you why you did not use in excess of His Word, the environment, and the people around you, and the technologies, and any means necessary to find out the Truth.
Yet you are stuck with decisions made for you by scholars in the 8th century and thereafter, and do not seem able or courageous enough to question their wisdom, or the accuracy of their approaches.
In my view, you are an intellectual coward...
and when challenged, you invoke Satan...
well the disbelievers like you invoked Magic...
You really do not interest me anymore, ana baree-un minka... -
Peace Belal,
Ayman, it seems that you are trying to ignore your own theory, Shahar = Full Moon and not a MONTH, when answering my two Questions !
You are just upset that I demonstrated that your question and answer about months and years is the same exact question and answer about the Gregorian calendar. Therefore your question and answer are irrelevant.
Is it because, using your theory to answer the two question would put you in position that you would have to refute it?
Be honest with yourself and us, and explain why your theory cannot be used to answer the two questions...And if you do so, you will earn my and everyone respect.Anyone can see that 30 full-moons are 30 full-moons. Your claim that they are equivalent to 2.5 years is just your baseless claim. The god never said that they are 2.5 years. As for how many full-moons are in 40 years, there is a year with 13 full-moons every 3 years so it is going to be about 493 full moons, give or take depending on when one was actually born relative to the full-moon. On the other hand, the Gregorian calendar was used to answer your two stupid questions and produced the SAME EXACT answers as you. So according to your logic this means that we should all fast according to the Gregorian calendar now.
Thank you for your valuable proposal...I promise you that I will answer it again, but after you answer my two question using your theory Shahar= One Full Moon.
You are obsessed with me. Forget about me and stop using me as an excuse for your mental laziness. Your stupid questions have nothing to do with the fact that your traditional arbitrary timing is not based on the great reading. You are just hanging at straws because you know that you have NOTHING.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
I forgot added the CORRELATION between my two questions...here it isThe CORRELATION is God is descripting the first 2.5 years (30 month) of our life, and then, what a believer would say after 37.5 years (450 moon cycles) passes after the first mentioned period (30 month).
Belh,
What do you want to prove with this?
I have tried my best to understand the reason/wisdom behind this question of yours, but have failed.
Moreover , I have told you so many times that Month is an inaccurate/inconsistent unit of measure, and hence any command using the term Month cannot be full filled due inherent ambiguity in its definition. As the Book/GOD is perfect, hence He did not use this unit, and opted to use marker, (shahar) what ever time period they give us (29 or 30)
Let me try and explain to you yet another way ,
If you are commanded to do something for , let us say , a second, or a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a week, or a year, there will be no confusion in your mind as to how many time units (lets say in seconds) you have to carry out a certain exercise, where as Month is the only man made unit which would give you so many options to choose from, 28, 29 ,30, or 31 days or its smaller units of hour/minutes/seconds. That is why God does not use this unit.
If you cant grasp this simple logic, then i am afraid, there are only three possibilities, "you have a frozen brain", if not true , then an "idiotic attitude", and if both are not true, then i am afraid , as Nabeel said, "your mind is in complete grip of Satan", do something about it .
siki
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Peace all,
Anyone can see that 30 full-moons are 30 full-moons. Your claim that they are equivalent to 2.5 years is just your baseless claim. The god never said that they are 2.5 years.
If 2.5 years is not the right answer, based on your theory, how many years are the 30 Shaher that are mentioned in the verse equal to?
Peace belH
Do not laugh too soon, I was leading Professors and Phd students in a Western University, and even with them
they considered me too progressive for their comfort.
But I do not have to justify myself to you, you are a failure so far as Allah's testing is concerned, which is worse than
any failure you will get from academia or engineering.
You have the complete wrong attitude to looking for the Truth, you think it is first within you, and you try to confirm it,
worse you do your utmost to cling to it.
The Truth is with Allah's and He has given you tools that you misuse pretty badly, even the tool of humility,
you do not seem to have, you are so cocky about your self righteousness that you refuse to contemplate
the possibility to look for another approach.
And Allah will ask you why you did not use in excess of His Word, the environment, and the people around you, and the technologies, and any means necessary to find out the Truth.
Yet you are stuck with decisions made for you by scholars in the 8th century and thereafter, and do not seem able or courageous enough to question their wisdom, or the accuracy of their approaches.
In my view, you are an intellectual coward...
and when challenged, you invoke Satan...
well the disbelievers like you invoked Magic...
You really do not interest me anymore, ana baree-un minka...rotfl Your ego is about to explode...Imam.
God does not love the arrogant who shows off.
Soon your knowledge (if you have any) will diminish, and your students' will prosper. Then, your ego will die with you. -
Moreover , I have told you so many times that Month is an inaccurate/inconsistent unit of measure, and hence any command using the term Month cannot be full filled due inherent ambiguity in its definition.
Peace all,
You are wrong about this. Here is one from the many examples of which the Prophet had fulfilled by measuring accurately the Month period
Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters.
92So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they hold the bond, and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
95Did the Prophet were able to Measure the Period in which Fighting was prohibited?
By the way, how many days did the prophet had to wait before fighting? Because according to Ayman theory, he would have had to not fight for 10 days per moon cycle (the period of the full moon per moon cycle)...in other words, he would have fought for 20 days, and stop fighting for 10 days per moon cycle...is this what he did, or did he wait for complete 4 moon cycles--about 118 days?
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Do not laugh too soon, I was leading Professors and Phd students in a Western University, and even with them
they considered me too progressive for their comfort.Are you sure that is what they thought of you (being progressive of their comfort), or your ego's imagination.
Until now, I don't consider you too progressive for my comfort, rather, an arrogant Imam who uses Non-well-established verses to cancel out the well-established ones. Hence, you are the same as the ones whom God described in 3-7 (the ones underlined)He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are well-established revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are not well-established. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is not-well-established from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say We believe in it, all is from our Lord. And none will remember except the people of understanding.
37 -
Peace all,
You are wrong about this. Here is one from the many examples of which the Prophet had fulfilled by measuring accurately the Month period
Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters.
92So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they hold the bond, and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
95Did the Prophet were able to Measure the Period in which Fighting was prohibited?
can't it be taken for a time period spreading over the appearance of 4 markers,(shahars)? You seem so sure about your statement regarding prophet as if you are carrying a video of his .
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can't it be taken for a time period spreading over the appearance of 4 markers,(shahars)? You seem so sure about your statement regarding prophet as if you are carrying a video of his .
Peace, so you are saying that he would have had to not fight for 10 days per moon cycle (the period of the full moon per moon cycle),...in other words, he would have fought for 20 days, and stopped fighting for 10 days per moon cycle (he had to stop the war four times that are equal to 20 days each)...is this what he did, or did he wait for complete 4 moon cycles--about 118 days?
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Peace, so you are saying that he would have had to not fight for 10 days per moon cycle (the period of the full moon per moon cycle),...in other words, he would have fought for 20 days, and stopped fighting for 10 days per moon cycle (he had to stop the war four times that are equal to 20 days each)...is this what he did, or did he wait for complete 4 moon cycles--about 118 days?
When this command was downloaded to his heart , he stopped fighting and waited for the first full moon to appear and when it did , he counted it as number one ,waited for the next full moon, counted it as second , waited for the next full moon and counted it as third, and then the next. When he saw 4th full moon , restriction was over .
Shahar is only one , and it is a Marker, there is nothing like shahar spreading over 10 days time period.
When ever there is a command of a single shahar, that is to be followed by a time period, (like in 2-185 ambiguity was clarified in 2-184 as ayayam ul madoodaat) , but if it is more than one , then it is the time period starting from next first visible, to the 2nd /third/ or 4th.
siki -
When this command was downloaded to his heart , he stopped fighting and waited for the first full moon to appear and when it did , he counted it as number one ,waited for the next full moon, counted it as second , waited for the next full moon and counted it as third, and then the next. When he saw 4th full moon , restriction was over .
siki
Peace,
Therefore, it is not too hard to calculate four Moon Cycles (29 to 30 days per cycle)--Months, as you thought before.
Now, which Full moon was the marker for the day in which fighting were to begin, taking into consideration that the prophet did not have the technology we have today
http//www.stariel.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/moon_phases1.jpg
Or is it more easier to look for the new appearance of the moon-the Waxing Crescent?
Peace
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If GOD wanted to make you do something for , let us say more than 30 50, or 90 days , It was difficult for the people back then to keep track of count, so he made it easier for them by counting a few full moons (two , three or 4 only)
Your pictures of full moon is a circular argument again, i have told you repeatedly , that , Shahar is, the first full moon which appears after the sun has set. so watch sun set, if there is a fullish moon ignore it, next day again watch sun set, if you see a full moon above horizon , again ignore it, do this exercise till the time you do not find a moon at sun set, now look for the moon rise, it will rise soon, This is Shahar.siki
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Shahar is only one , and it is a Marker, there is nothing like shahar spreading over 10 days time period.
When ever there is a command of a single shahar, that is to be followed by a time period, (like in 2-185 ambiguity was clarified in 2-184 as ayayam ul madoodaat) , but if it is more than one , then it is the time period starting from next first visible, to the 2nd /third/ or 4th.
sikiNow, I have one more question for you
How many moon cycles the prophet was allowed to fight for before the next 4 restricted Moon Cycles start again, in which fight should stop?
is it 8 moon cycles period or 9?