Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Ayman,
The words and are two completely different words in Arabic with different spelling. What you are saying is like confusing ?mat? (a rug) and ?mad? (crazy) in English. Your time would be better spent in learning Arabic than in defending the nonsensical and arbitrary sectarian calendar.
That was an example, could?ve used any number of words including The Romans which according to your Lisaan alarab 13th & lane's lexicon 19th century holy books can be confused with desired, to seek, to wait/pause/expect, be patient, to mock/ridicule, and I wrote?
?Best meaning is derived from context not always dictionaries like to error imply deeds are physical ashes and not that their actions are starved like ashes blown in the wind.?
Similarly if we ask what is ?July? people say a month, little to do with Julius Caesar from which it derives.
It only became ?the month of fast? after 2185 was revealed. So you are using circular reasoning. An Arab hearing 2185 for the first time and trying to understand when this ?month? occurs wouldn?t use circular reasoning (CIRCULAR to fast during the month of fast). This is a post-Quranic meaning that doesn?t say anything about when to fast. Even using your own definition of "shahr" as "month", the pre-Quranic Arab listening for the first time to 2185 without any post-Quranic bias would understand it as a "month" of scorching heat.
Circular is to imply falyasumhu so he should fast the fasting when it refers to the month.
Actually, the examples that you brought destroy your argument that ?inward intent? means ?shahida? since 1926 clearly says that such intent is called ? I made a vow ?. Also, according to you ?whoever didn?t make a vow? is not obligated to fast. So according to your logic, even fully able people in good health are exempted if they ?don?t make a vow?.
No straw-man, you?re habitual at projecting your opinions into the posts of others. Nothing about who do not make a vow/intent not obligated, it simply says what it says.
1926 so say that I made a vow to The Merciful a fast...
This doesn?t answer the question. Any hunting for sport would fall under spilling blood unnecessarily and is therefore prohibited anyway. Also, hunting endangered species would fall under corrupting the earth and therefore is also prohibited. What we are talking about is hunting for food and restricting it so that those species don?t become endangered. So the question is
How does restricting hunting only on the 8th to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and only on people walking half-naked while wearing nothing but towels and only in the vicinity of Mecca would be better for wild life than a global hunting restriction for the summer season?
So now you?re restriction is better as if a contest of sorts.
Already posted not about global hunting; simply a local restriction during the gathering like a lollapalooza concert with no street vendors so be prepared same as you would not go empty to your hajj feast?
http//www.noeviltwin.com/images/LollaCrowd_small.jpg
The god said so. He said that the ?hajj? occurs on ?ash-hur ma'aloomat?. So the ?hajj? occurs on known full-moons. The harvest full-moons are known to everyone and the people of the book had ?hagg? on the inviolable full-moon (Hagg Sukkot). On the other hand, there is nothing that anyone knew about the Islamic calendar in pre-Islamic times, including the start of the era, the order of the months or the names of the months (all of which the location of its months are based on). Moreover, 93 makes it clear that the restriction period is consecutive but according to your arbitrary false calendar they are not consecutive but are haphazardly arranged as months 11, 12, 1 and 7.
Again straw-man thread is about timing which all evidence, logic and common sense (e.g. the blind and people in cloudy weather get free pass) points to contradiction.
Travel in the land for four full-moons is the same if I tell you that I will see you after four full-moons. Nothing ambiguous about it.
Not if your vision is poor or if it?s cloudy outside you won?t.
Yet despite all the tools there are still disputes every year about when your so-called Ramadhan month occurs (including this year) but there was never any dispute about when the full-moon occurs.
No it doesn?t. You are saying this because you are used to disputes every year about the start of Ramadhan. Please provide any link or reference showing that there was ever any dispute about when the full-moon occurs. If you can?t provide such reference then you have proved that just because you ignore when it occurs, it doesn?t mean that everyone does.
No disputes straw man; the new crescents are precisely calculated forward/backwards. I know exactly when to fast.
You are forgetting practical reality. The fact is that the full-moon on November 2 is the full-moon. Sunset starts from the time the sun starts to go through the horizon (the sun is about .5 degrees wide, and so is the moon). So here is the data for November 2 and 3
November 2
Sun
Time Altitude Azimuth
1701 0.6 250.5
Moon
Time Altitude Azimuth Fraction Illuminated
1648 0.5 64.8 1November 3
Sun
Time Altitude Azimuth
1701 0.4 250.2
Moon
Time Altitude Azimuth Fraction Illuminated
1731 0.6 60.3 0.98As you can see, the moon on November 3 occurs 30 minutes after sunset (will appear to an earth bound observer even later). On the other hand, the full-moon on November 2 occurs only 13 minutes before sunset. More practically speaking though, unless you are in the middle of the sea, the full moon doesn?t actually appear to earth bound observers until it has risen about 2 degrees so it will be apparent at the same time as the sunset. There is no ambiguity that this is the full moon and any doubt will be cleared once one sees that the next day moon appears more than 30 minutes after sunset.
Again there was never any doubt about when the full-moon occurs, on the other hand there is doubt EVERY SINGLE YEAR about when the new moon crescent of the sectarian Ramadhan appears. This is indisputable, but you are clearly biased. So the way for you to prove your point is to bring an independent source showing that there is or ever was a dispute on when the full-moon occurs. On the other hand, there is a dispute EVERY SINGLE YEAR about when your so-called Ramadhan occurs. Here is the data for this year showing a variation of THREE days even within the same country or countries right next to each other
Ramadan Start- Friday 21-August
Libya, Turkey, Lebanon (Shiites), Kosovo, Macedonia, Romania, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Albania, Slovenia, Russia, Germany, EU (The European Council for Fatwa and Research).Ramadan Start ? Saturday 22-August
Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Philippines, China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Syria, Lebanon (Sunni), Jordan, Palestine, Sudan, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, France, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, USA (Following Saudi), UK.Ramadan Start ? Sunday 23-August
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, USA (some communities by actual local sighting)The above is on top of the fact that your so-called Ramadhan is 100% arbitrary to begin with since it is dependent on when month 1 was made to start, the arbitrary order of the months and the arbitrary start of the era. Those are indisputably THREE 100% arbitrary and manmade factors.
Instead of wasting your time trying to jealously prove that like the empirically verifiable 3 day dispute in your so-called Ramadhan there is dispute on when the full-moon occurs, I would suggest that you try to help Belal answer the following question. You guys are going to need all the help you can get. Bring a Billion sectarian supporting one another if you want but still you will never be able to do it. )
How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
Again straw man the moon was clearly in the sky at sunset.
Astronomical Applications Dept.
U.S. Naval Observatory
Washington, DC 20392-5420WASHINGTON, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
o , o ,
W 77 02, N38 53Altitude and Azimuth of the Moon
Nov 2, 2009
Eastern Standard TimeAltitude Azimuth Fraction
(E of N) Illuminated1700 2.3 66.6 1.00
1701 2.5 66.7 1.00
1702 2.7 66.9 1.00
1703 2.8 67.0 1.00
1704 3.0 67.1 1.00
1705 3.1 67.3 1.00
1706 3.3 67.4 1.00
1707 3.5 67.6 1.00Altitude and Azimuth of the Sun
Nov 2, 2009
Eastern Standard TimeAltitude Azimuth
(E of N)1700 0.8 250.3
1701 0.6 250.5
1702 0.4 250.6
1703 0.3 250.8
1704 0.1 250.9
1705 -0.0 251.1
1706 -0.8 251.2
1707 -1.0 251.4One does not have to be in the middle of the ocean and reminds me of a d?j? vu dream, a family on a beach all dressed up taking pictures and this guy exercising with his dog which he grabbed and flung the dog in the ocean water. Then a few weeks later was watching the sunset on the Pacific and a family from California lined up on the beach to take a picture all dressed up before dinner and this guy was running up-down the shore and doing laps swimming exercising with his dog when all of sudden he grabbed and flung the dog in the water too for a swim which triggered the remembrance.
http//www.8thelementdiving.com/images/puerto_vallarta_sunset.jpg
Peace
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Peace Ayman,
You mean the same scholars that told you
- Dip flies in your food because one of its wings is medicine.
- Drink warm fresh camel urine to cure all your ills.
- Kiss the behind of a Black Stone to get all your sins forgiven.
No, I meant scholar like Prophet Muhammad, David, Solomon, Noah, Abraham, Mosses and other believers. According to your logic these people are disbeliever/misleader and should not be trusted. Your pride and ego got the best of you. That's why you are equating flies and urine cure as the sayings of scholars. You are fully aware of trickery satan plays with human, they have the power to whisper into our innermost thought, but we are given the power to shun them. But you voluntarily gave that power up to become one of them.
Simply put, Ayman?s message is when you hear a call like Noah made in 759 Ayman?s response is 1132. Ayman dislike people who listened/followed Noah. This is the fundamental message he is propagating. Please be aware of him.759 - We sent Noah to his people, saying, "O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him. I fear for you the retribution of an awesome day."
1132 - They said, "O Noah, you have argued with us, and kept on arguing. We challenge you to bring the doom you threaten us with, if you are truthful."You are right when the believers returned they were eager to learn about kissing the Black Stone and dipping flies in their food and drink and about arbitrary months such as Dhu Al-Qi'ada and all sorts of important things left untold by the great reading but revealed to scholars. Why didn't I think of that? )
Now, you are mocking God?s word and accusing believers of teaching false things. Ayman, this is your trait. You are confusing yourself with the believers. By definition a believer cannot do bad things as suggested by Ayman. He is totally lost and shame on him for making such a wrongful statement about a believer. His payment is on the way
4145 - The hypocrites will be committed to the lowest pit of Hell, and you will find no one to help them.
967 - The hypocrite men and the hypocrite women belong with each other - they advocate evil and prohibit righteousness, and they are stingy. They forgot GOD, so He forgot them. The hypocrites are truly wickedDavid and Solomon didn't know anything about kissing a black stone or dipping flies in their food. So I guess your scholars are much more knowledgeable than David and Solomon. )
Ayman keeps talking about the black stone and the dipping flies because he is obsessed with it. He keeps reading this kind of things to increase his knowledge. That?s why you will find a great correlation between this nonsense and his so called Ramadan theory.
The idol worshippers are those who refuse to kiss a black stone or revere and mindlessly spin around a black cube and they don't believe in dipping flies in their food or drinking camel urine to cure all ills and they don't follow an arbitrary manmade timing system but instead follow the timing based purely on the great reading. On the other hand, the believers are those who love to kiss, fondle and mindlessly spin around a bunch of filthy stones and follow the Hadiths of the scholars and their 100% arbitrary manmade timing system. I guess I was wrong because I thought it was the other way around ).
Again, you are obsessed with kissing black stone, drinking camel urine, and hadiths. You and your followers are the only ones who keep talking about this nonsense. Therefore, these sources must be very near and dear to you. You cannot part from it.
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Peace siki,
deprived of logic such as yours, and on top of it you label everyone as satan, who tries to question any of the twisted practices we have inherited.
Please read your own posts carefully and you will know what deprived logic means.
I did not label everyone as satan. You just proved yourself that you are deprived of logic.
I have no issue with questioning twisted practices. I myself am questioning double twisted practice advocated on this forum. And you disapproved of it. Again an illogical thought process.
With such a clogged and shackled brain, I am a little surprised to find you as member of FREE_MINDS.
Truth is very hard to swallow as evident from people of Noah, Prophet Lot, Ad, Jesus and others. Your reaction is normal and anticipated. Generally people are not interested in finding the truth; they are interested in their ego, pride and worldly gains.
I sincerely pray that GOD heals your sick brain,
Please pray for yourself, you really need it. I don?t need you prayer. But thanks for the offer.
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Peace guest,
I think dissing you hard got over the top somehow, but do you still need to be this paranoid?
It is really annoying, I cannot have a conversation with someone who brandishes satanic and hypocrite and hell fire
every other sentence, are you also obsessed with these things, you are scared they might be in you too?
This ping pong of accusations will never end.
Listen the scholars I meant were not Messengers or Prophets oki?
But if you look at the Book, even Prophets go through learning curves, learn from mistakes, and do reprehensible things,
Allah bothers to quote these examples so that we see that they are humans, and that there is nothing inherently wrong in making a mistake, what is wrong is thinking we will never make mistakes, never learning from mistakes, not repenting from mistakes, and not repairing mistakes.
You do not seem to be in this forum to learn anything, you just come to accuse, and attack, I am sorry but this is not an attitude I can sympathise with...
You seem to want to be better than a Prophet... -
Peace Eid,
You just wasted one more electronic page and achieved nothing contributing to more global warming lol rotflPeace theNabster,
Instead of grinning like (the ignorant) (apes despised) gather yourself and simply go outside Nov 2nd 41 days from today watch the 100% full moon before sunset.
Astronomical Applications Dept.
U.S. Naval Observatory
Washington, DC 20392-5420WASHINGTON, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
o , o ,
W 77 02, N38 53Altitude and Azimuth of the Moon
Nov 2, 2009
Eastern Standard TimeAltitude Azimuth Fraction
(E of N) Illuminated1700 2.3 66.6 1.00
1701 2.5 66.7 1.00
1702 2.7 66.9 1.00
1703 2.8 67.0 1.00
1704 3.0 67.1 1.00
1705 3.1 67.3 1.00
1706 3.3 67.4 1.00
1707 3.5 67.6 1.00Altitude and Azimuth of the Sun
Nov 2, 2009
Eastern Standard TimeAltitude Azimuth
(E of N)1700 0.8 250.3
1701 0.6 250.5
1702 0.4 250.6
1703 0.3 250.8
1704 0.1 250.9
1705 -0.0 251.1
1706 -0.8 251.2
1707 -1.0 251.4http//www.8thelementdiving.com/images/puerto_vallarta_sunset.jpg
Peace
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Peace Eid,
That was an example, could?ve used any number of words including The Romans which according to your Lisaan alarab 13th & lane's lexicon 19th century holy books can be confused with desired, to seek, to wait/pause/expect, be patient, to mock/ridicule, and I wrote?
?Best meaning is derived from context not always dictionaries like to error imply deeds are physical ashes and not that their actions are starved like ashes blown in the wind.?
Similarly if we ask what is ?July? people say a month, little to do with Julius Caesar from which it derives.So what it the best meaning for "ramadhan" according to you? A meaningless name of an arbitrary month? Or the circular and nonsensical "month of fast" so that when the god says "shahr ramadhan" he means "the month of the month of fast" according to your logic?
Circular is to imply falyasumhu so he should fast the fasting when it refers to the month.
What month? You said "ramadhan" means the "month of fast" so "shahr ramadhan" according to you means "the month of the month of fast". Can't you provide even a half-decent answer that doesn't reduce 2185 into nonsense?
No straw-man, you?re habitual at projecting your opinions into the posts of others. Nothing about who do not make a vow/intent not obligated, it simply says what it says.
1926 so say that I made a vow to The Merciful a fast...2185 clearly says "whoever amongst you xxxx should fast". Regardless of what xxxx means (vow or whatever other imaginary meanings you can make up), this implies that "those amongst you who don't xxxx are not oligated to fast". This is basic logic. You talk about strawman because you only see as far as your nose and fail to see the logical implications of your own interpretation.
So now you?re restriction is better as if a contest of sorts.
You are evading the question because you know that you have no answer.
Already posted not about global hunting; simply a local restriction during the gathering like a lollapalooza concert with no street vendors so be prepared same as you would not go empty to your hajj feast?
This has already been proven false. Why do you keep repeating false arguments? The things that are in 51-2 (honoring contracts, the livestock being made lawful, not hunting while restricted) clearly don't apply only around Mecca and only during "hajj". In fact, "hajj" is nowhere mentioned.
Again, the question is
How does restricting hunting only on the 8th to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and only on people walking half-naked while wearing nothing but towels and only in the vicinity of Mecca would be better for wild life than a global hunting restriction for the summer season?
I answered all your questions but so far you can't answer any of my questions.
Again straw-man thread is about timing which all evidence, logic and common sense (e.g. the blind and people in cloudy weather get free pass) points to contradiction.
What strawman? Do you deny the following facts
- Your arbitrary "restricted months" are haphazardly arranged as months 11, 12, 1 and 7 and are not consecutive?
- There is nothing that anyone knew about the Islamic calendar in pre-Islamic times, including the start of the era, the order of the months or the names of the months (all of which the location of its months are based on).
Instead of happily repeating "strawman" like it is a new word you just learned, support your nonsensical calendar by providing evidence denying the above facts and prove that I am indeed building a strawman.
Not if your vision is poor or if it?s cloudy outside you won?t.
Now this is a real strawman. Please tell me where the word "witness" is in 91-3. The ONLY time witnessing is mentioned is in relation to the fast. This is it.
No disputes straw man; the new crescents are precisely calculated forward/backwards. I know exactly when to fast.
It is not a strawman unless you can disprove the following reality
Ramadan Start- Friday 21-August
Libya, Turkey, Lebanon (Shiites), Kosovo, Macedonia, Romania, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Albania, Slovenia, Russia, Germany, EU (The European Council for Fatwa and Research).Ramadan Start ? Saturday 22-August
Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Philippines, China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Syria, Lebanon (Sunni), Jordan, Palestine, Sudan, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, France, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, USA (Following Saudi), UK.Ramadan Start ? Sunday 23-August
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, USA (some communities by actual local sighting)Again, all the above sources (Libya, Bosnia, Egypt, Saudi, India, Pakistan, etc.) that are independent from you and me didn't conspire with me against you just to prove you wrong. The above is the reality of what happened. What you are saying (that there is no dispute) is only in your wishful imagination.
When did you start your fast by the way?
Again straw man the moon was clearly in the sky at sunset.
Again, you are biased and therefore looking at things from a biased point of view. Please post an independent source (like I did) showing that there was ever a dispute on when the full-moon occurs. If you can't then just be honest and admit it.
More importantly, just like guest, Belal and a billion sectarians, I am not surprised that you evade answering the most important question
How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
You clearly have ZERO answer.
Peace,
Ayman
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How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
Correction it's Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar and Rabi Awwal.
92 Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters.
According to you, is Ramadan also a month for the hajj?
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Peace Progressive1993,
Correction it's Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar and Rabi Awwal.
92 Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters.Please see
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar
"The three successive forbidden months mentioned by Muhammad (months in which battles are forbidden) are Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, and Muharram, months 11, 12, and 1. The single forbidden month is Rajab, month 7."
Please provide a source that indicates that they are "Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar and Rabi Awwal" and not "Zul-Qiidah, Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar" or "Shawwal, Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar" or "Ramadhan, Shawwal, Zul Qiidah, Zul Hijjah", etc.
According to you, is Ramadan also a month for the hajj?
Out of the four inviolable full moons, the first one is for the fast and the following three are for the feast.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar
"The three successive forbidden months mentioned by Muhammad (months in which battles are forbidden) are Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, and Muharram, months 11, 12, and 1. The single forbidden month is Rajab, month 7."
According to hadith fabricators and their followers, yes, but not according to God's words
92 Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters.
They are consecutive.
Please provide a source that indicates that they are "Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar and Rabi Awwal" and not "Zul-Qiidah, Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar" or "Shawwal, Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar" or "Ramadhan, Shawwal, Zul Qiidah, Zul Hijjah", etc.
Edip-Layth - End Note 7 (937)
Today's Sunni and Shiite mushriks consider Rajab, Zul-Qada, Zul-Hijja, and Muharram to be the Restricted Months (the 7th, 11th, 12th, and 1st months of lunar calendar). However, when we study 2197,217; 92,5,36 and the names of known months, we will discover that real Restricted Months must be four consecutive months and they are Zul-Hijja, Muharram, Safar, Rabi ul-Awal (12th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd months). The very name of the 12th month, Zul- Hijja (Contains Haj), gives us a clue that it is the first month of haj pilgrimage. When we start from the 12th month, the last of the Restricted Months becomes the 3rd month, Rabi ul-Awal (First Fourth), and the very name of this month also is revealing; it suggests that it is the fourth month of the Restricted Months. Then, why the qualification "First"? Well, the name of the following month provides an explanation Rabi ul-Akhir (Second Fourth), which is the fourth month from the beginning of the year. In other words we have two months called "Fourth," the first one referring to the fourth restricted moth, with the second fourth referring to the fourth month of the lunar year. The word rabi (fourth) is used for seasons because each season is one fourth of a year. It is interesting that many of the crimes and distortions mentioned in the Quran have been committed by those who have abandoned the Quran for the sake of hadith and sunna; they repeated the same blunder of their polytheist ancestors.
Out of the four inviolable full moons, the first one is for the fast and the following three are for the feast.
With the above statement I assume you mean that Ramadan is not a month (or full moon, if you like) for the hajj. This is clearly against the Quran
2197 The hajj is in the four known months. So, whosoever decides to perform the hajj in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor quarreling in the hajj. Any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is awareness; and be conscientious of Me O you who possesses intelligence.
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It depends on which translation, look at this one (based on another tafsir)
(in arabic it does not give a number it just say months maalumaat)
2197 The Hajj (pilgrimage) is (in) the well-known (lunar year) months (i.e. the 10th month, the 11th month
and the first ten days of the 12th month of the Isl?mic calendar, i.e. two months and ten days). So
whosoever intends to perform Hajj therein by assuming Ihr?m), then he should not have sexual
relations (with his wife), nor commit sin, nor dispute unjustly during the Hajj. And whatever good you
do, (be sure) All?h knows it. And take a provision (with you) for the journey, but the best provision is
At-Taqwa (piety, righteousness, etc.). So fear Me, O men of understanding....The Noble Quran
In the English Language
A Summarized Version of At-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir
with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari
By
Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D.
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan -
Peace Progressive1993,
According to hadith fabricators and their followers, yes, but not according to God's words
92 Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters.
They are consecutive.I know that the inviolable full-moons are consecutive. On the other hand, the sectarian calendar doesn't have them as consecutive. So we know that the sectarian calendar is false since they arbitrarily select the inviolable period and make it not consecutive.
Edip-Layth - End Note 7 (937)
Today's Sunni and Shiite mushriks consider Rajab, Zul-Qada, Zul-Hijja, and Muharram to be the Restricted Months (the 7th, 11th, 12th, and 1st months of lunar calendar). However, when we study 2197,217; 92,5,36 and the names of known months, we will discover that real Restricted Months must be four consecutive months and they are Zul-Hijja, Muharram, Safar, Rabi ul-Awal (12th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd months). The very name of the 12th month, Zul- Hijja (Contains Haj), gives us a clue that it is the first month of haj pilgrimage. When we start from the 12th month, the last of the Restricted Months becomes the 3rd month, Rabi ul-Awal (First Fourth), and the very name of this month also is revealing; it suggests that it is the fourth month of the Restricted Months. Then, why the qualification "First"? Well, the name of the following month provides an explanation Rabi ul-Akhir (Second Fourth), which is the fourth month from the beginning of the year. In other words we have two months called "Fourth," the first one referring to the fourth restricted moth, with the second fourth referring to the fourth month of the lunar year. The word rabi (fourth) is used for seasons because each season is one fourth of a year. It is interesting that many of the crimes and distortions mentioned in the Quran have been committed by those who have abandoned the Quran for the sake of hadith and sunna; they repeated the same blunder of their polytheist ancestors.Layth and Edip timing is just as arbitrary as sectarians and they are just as clueless
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First of all, just because someone named a month "Zul-Hijja", this doesn't mean that it contains Hajj (unless you take "zul-hijja" as a common noun, like I did with "ramadhan". So here Edip and Layth are contradicting themselves. They take Ramadhan as a meaningless name that has nothing to do with its meaning of "scorching heat" and on the other hand they take Zul-Hijjah as meaningful and having something to do with its meaning. They are clearly caught in their inconsistencies.
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Who said that Zul-Hijja must be the first month? Why not the last or in the middle? They just selected it arbitrarily as the first one.
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Moreover, their timing is 100% dependent on the order of the months. What if Rajab was originally month 10 or month 2 but the sectarians changed its place? Since all the names are meaningless anyway, the names can be arbitrarily rearranged.
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As I said, the names in the sectarian calendar are meaningless. So let's call them month 1, 2, 3, .... 12. Now you are saying that months 12, 1, 2, and 3 are restricted. But there is nothing inherent in month 1 that makes it month 1. So had the sectarians decided to start the count a month later then Edip and Layth's present month 12 would be a month later.
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In fact, the sectarian (and Edip and Layth per the note) timing is tied to year 1 month 1 and can never be independent from it because they have been counting continuously since that time and didn't stop at 12. Recycling the names or labels of the months every 12 is not counting 12 as the god ordered in 936. They are now counting month #17170.
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Layth and Edip confuse Rabi ul-Akhir and call it (Second Fourth). I expect such ignorant blunders from Edip but I never expected Layth to ignorantly confuse (grazing/spring) with (fourth). Again, all this is besides the point anyway since in Edip's and Layth's world those months are meaningless labels anyway, otherwise they have to apply the same logic to "ramadhan" (scorching heat).
There are many other logical problems. I hope that this is not Layth's view but is just Edip as I expect such ignorance from him but Layth is generally a little more careful when it comes to making baseless assumptions.
With the above statement I assume you mean that Ramadan is not a month (or full moon, if you like) for the hajj. This is clearly against the Quran
2197 The hajj is in the four known months. So, whosoever decides to perform the hajj in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor quarreling in the hajj. Any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is awareness; and be conscientious of Me O you who possesses intelligence.Where does it say FOUR in 2197? Please give the Arabic and underline the word.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Nabeel,
It depends on which translation, look at this one (based on another tafsir)
(in arabic it does not give a number it just say months maalumaat)
2197 The Hajj (pilgrimage) is (in) the well-known (lunar year) months (i.e. the 10th month, the 11th month
and the first ten days of the 12th month of the Isl?mic calendar, i.e. two months and ten days). So
whosoever intends to perform Hajj therein by assuming Ihr?m), then he should not have sexual
relations (with his wife), nor commit sin, nor dispute unjustly during the Hajj. And whatever good you
do, (be sure) All?h knows it. And take a provision (with you) for the journey, but the best provision is
At-Taqwa (piety, righteousness, etc.). So fear Me, O men of understanding....
The Noble Quran
In the English Language
A Summarized Version of At-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir
with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari
By
Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D.
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin KhanThis is intereting because the "shahr" and ten days maybe some of the traces left from the original practice from before the corruption.
Peace,
Ayman
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Correction it's Zul Hijjah, Muharram, Safar and Rabi Awwal.
92 Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters.
Peace,
If what you say is true, then the following can be concludedWednesday 21 March 630 C.E. is the day when 1 st Zul Hijjah year 8 (the year when the prophet concord The restricted City, and I believe when chapter 9 was revealed) was.
That tell us the following
The first day of Ramadan was in Friday 22 December 629 C.E.
The 4 restricted months started on spring time and ended on July 630 C.E.
The Prophet had to fight during the Hot season, Which is true according to this verse in the same chapter 9Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind the messenger of God, and they disliked striving with their money and lives in the cause of God; and they say Do not mobilize in the heat. Say The fire of Hell is much hotter, if they could only understand.
981The above information are the most logic conclusions that are confirmed by the Quran.
On the other hand, according to Ayman, Fasting was in July year 8 (Arabic Calender), therefore, verse 981 is not true (we have to cancel out); hint, the four restricted month would have ended in Fall or winter time and never in Hot season.To all, when Ayman (or even our Imam, Nabster) answers my two questions I posted for him before, please PM me so I can reply.
My Questions were, how many days are in the 4 restricted months? or how many days or years are in the 30 months that in verse 46-15.May God bless the true believers, and guide those who are seeking his truth.
Peace -
Peace Belal,
If what you say is true, then the following can be concluded
Wednesday 21 March 630 C.E. is the day when 1 st Zul Hijjah year 8 (the year when the prophet concord The restricted City, and I believe when chapter 9 was revealed) was.
That tell us the following
The first day of Ramadan was in Friday 22 December 629 C.E.
The 4 restricted months started on spring time and ended on July 630 C.E.
The Prophet had to fight during the Hot season, Which is true according to this verse in the same chapter 9
Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind the messenger of God, and they disliked striving with their money and lives in the cause of God; and they say Do not mobilize in the heat. Say The fire of Hell is much hotter, if they could only understand.
981
The above information are the most logic conclusions that are confirmed by the Quran.
On the other hand, according to Ayman, Fasting was in July year 8 (Arabic Calender), therefore, verse 981 is not true (we have to cancel out); hint, the four restricted month would have ended in Fall or winter time and never in Hot season.
To all, when Ayman (or even our Imam, Nabster) answers my two questions I posted for him before, please PM me so I can reply.
My Questions were, how many days are in the 4 restricted months? or how many days or years are in the 30 months that in verse 46-15.
May God bless the true believers, and guide those who are seeking his truth.You are building dreams using thin air as walls. I think that this is so clear that anyone who doesn't see this deserves to be misguided.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Belal,
You are building dreams using thin air as walls. I think that this is so clear that anyone who doesn't see this deserves to be misguided.
Peace,
Ayman
rotfl
OOOPS...Is that was a possible answer to your question?
On the other hand, Belal and Eid act like they are all progressive and logical when in fact they are no different from Farida and Guest but instead of admitting the obvious, they claim to be following the great reading and then turn on their heels and run away from answering
How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
Peace,
Ayman
I think it is...Now it is your turn to answer my questions...Take a deep breath and go for it.
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Peace Ayman,
Yeah, I miss the comic relief too . But seriously, Farida and Guest at least have implicitly admitted the obvious, which is that they are blindly following "the companions", "the believers" or "the scholars" (whatever they imagine those things to be).
Lies and more lies is your motto. You say believers are telling people to drink camel?s urine and dip flies in their food and now you are spreading lies about me of blindly following scholars. I hope you realize that these are bad behavior. You don?t even know the definition of believer. You have to be a believer to know a believer. I said ?The God tells us that we can accept the teaching of scholar provided it is in line with the Quran.? Now, what kind of deduction mechanism did you used to convert this statement into a blind follower?
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Peace Guest,
Lies and more lies is your motto. You say believers are telling people to drink camel?s urine and dip flies in their food and now you are spreading lies about me of blindly following scholars. I hope you realize that these are bad behavior. You don?t even know the definition of believer. You have to be a believer to know a believer. I said ?The God tells us that we can accept the teaching of scholar provided it is in line with the Quran.? Now, what kind of deduction mechanism did you used to convert this statement into a blind follower?
Do you suffer from somekind of inferiority complex? Instead of mindlessly repeating "I am not a blind follower of scholars" and "I am a believer" to bolster your self image, just do it. No intelligent person cares if you say a hundred times "I am a believer and Ayman is not". Your argument style is like that of a 5 year old child.
Which of your moronic scholars (name them and tell us exactly what they said) and which of their false teachings on the timing are in line with the great reading? Did the great reading tell you any of the following
- To arbitrarily go on your so-called Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hjjah?
- To arbitrarily choose months 11, 12, 1, and 7 or 11,12,1,2 or 12,1,2,3 (as Belal baselessly assumes) or 10,11,12,1 or 9,10,11,12 or whatever as restricted.
- To have the placement of your so-called Ramadhan dependent on arbitrarily choosing the year 622CE to start the calendar.
- To have the placement of your so-called Ramadhan dependent on arbitrarily choosing any haphazard month (not even the month of the supposed Hijra) as month 1?
- To have the placement of your so-called Ramadhan dependent on an arbitrary order of the months?
- To take the god's word "ramadhan/scorching heat" as meaningless info that doesn't reflect the truth about the timing?
You and Belal and all sectarians who claim to follow the great reading will continue to expose your hypocrisy unless you can at least address the above 6 issues so that you can answer the following question
How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
I know that even a billion sectarians can't answer so please don't do like Belal and don't dream up a bunch of idiotic nonsense full of baseless assumptions that fails to address any of the above issues and therefore cannot answer the question.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace All,
I know that even a billion sectarians can't answer so please don't do like Belal and don't dream up a bunch of idiotic nonsense full of baseless assumptions that fails to address any of the above issues and therefore cannot answer the question.
Ayman, calm down...Be constructive when criticizing so we can all learn.
My assumptions and conclusion are based on Quran ( 9-81 tell us that the four restricted months ended around Summer Time) and science (using the date converter to identify the season in which the four restricted moon cycles and Ramadan occurred when chapter 9 was revealed).Before I follow any opinion I examine it using the Quran and other sound data...Therefore, I examined Brother Layth opinion. The result is "Layth's Opinion does not violate the Quran or the scientific data, and yours violates both...does that makes you angry enough to call me names?
I'm still waiting for your answer to my two questions.
Peace all
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Peace All,
...does that makes you angry enough to call me names?
I'm still waiting for your answer to my two questions.
Peace all
Peace
Peace All,
...does that makes you angry enough to call me names?
A common methodology adopted by anyone who lacks arguements
I'm still waiting for your answer to my two questions.
Which you will never get probably.
Regards