Hot/"ramadan" Answer

Q_student

Peace
Rules of language come after language. There is no such a thing as classical arabic.
What you call classical is just a snapshot decided by academics in Al-Azhar or Al-Madinah.
The only thing i can tell you is if Allah promised that he will preserve the Quran, he will also
preserve the ability to understand it.
The arabic i learnt was from nomad tribe in the sahara which was pure arabic tongue, my grand parents and their
ancestors were arab tribes leaders.

Peace brother
Spoken language is always different from the literary language. Secondly language of one era is not exactly the same as that of another era. For example ,you will see a lot of difference between todays' english and the enlish of Shakspear's era.The same is true for MSA and Classical Arabic.

Regards

hope4

The only thing i can tell you is if Allah promised that he will preserve the Quran, he will also
preserve the ability to understand it.

Peace theNabster

I agree with your statement. I don't think and this is only my thoughts that God ment to preserve the Quranic language but the meaning. This is evident from the language changing over the years and writing styles.

Peace

Hope

ayman

Peace everyone,

WHO IS THE BIGGEST LOOSER.
Is he the one who steals ideas of others and then promoting it as his?
Ayman instead of promoting your proposed Calender as it is your idea, instead please call it THE VEDIC CALENDER...do not steal others ideas
At least, we did not do that, rather, we are fighting and promoting a 1400 years old calender that has not been changed since, and above all, does not violate the Quran.

This is probably the most intellectually bankrupt argument since Farida's hilarious babble that I was a "secret agent".

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Q_student,

As far as Quran is concerned ,english does not matter but Classical Arabic does matter which neither you nor Ayman knows it.

If you knew Classical Arabic then you would have known that the language of the great reading is not Classical Arabic.

If you knew anything about any Arabic then you would have been able to read the Alif that is occasionally found in the great reading at the end of Thamuda. In Egypt we have a fitting famous example for ignorant blind followers like you who can't even read an Alif but are too arrogant to realize it

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace Q_student,

If you knew Classical Arabic then you would have known that the language of the great reading is not Classical Arabic.

If you knew anything about any Arabic then you would have been able to read the Alif that is occasionally found in the great reading at the end of Thamuda. In Egypt we have a fitting famous example for ignorant blind followers like you who can't even read an Alif but are too arrogant to realize it

Peace,

Ayman

Egyptian...Interesting to know.
By the way, the below arabic words fit you more

noble

Peace
this thread is getting too annoying for me, so I am off, good luck Ayman, and good work by the way, pity it falls on some
wet behind the ears teenagers (well if they are not they certainly act like toddlers).
One day we will know for sure if you were right, for now, muslims are just slaves on the earth, or donkeys who carry zero's...

ayman

Peace Belal,

Egyptian...Interesting to know.
By the way, the below arabic words fit you more

Please read earlier in this thread the following post of Q_Student where he either lied and deliberately deleted an Alif from Thamuda in 2538 or he is an ignorant who can't identify the Alif

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg203629#msg203629

For an ignorant person there is always hope that he might grow and learn one day but for someone who deliberately lies and deletes letters from the great reading, there is no hope. So what I said is actually a challenge for him to live up to his screen name and start to let the teacher of the great reading and not Classical Arabic grammarians teach him the real language of the great reading. On the other hand, all that you proved is that you haven?t read this entire thread carefully and instead of answering my questions you resort to mindless copy and paste argumentation by big fonts and calling people "losers" (which is less than childish since even well-raised kids don't do this) and you only further demonstrate that, like your avatar, your mouth is bigger than your logic.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Hope4,

Found this site www.karaite-korner.org and in it, it mentions that the Jews believe through their text of the following

The beginning of months in the Biblical calendar according to the visibility of the Crescent New Moon
The beginning of years in the Biblical calendar according to the state of the barley crops (Abib) in the Land of Israel.
Ps 81,3 Blow on a horn for the Hodesh (New Moon)
On the Keseh (Full Moon) for the Day of our Hag (Feast)."
I don't know if this has relevance to the topic, specially as it is quotes outside the Quran and also its a site belonging to Karaism sect of Judaism. So it is open to scrutiny. However, I could not pass it by when I saw the simularities to begginning of month as being the visibility of the crescent new moon and also the begining of the year being linked to a particular event which happens according to the seasons. What I don't know is the actual time of the season these barley crops reach a certain state to start the count or finish the count of a year. It also mentions on the site of using a 13th month in a leap. I don't know if this is helpful but I thought I post it.

Thank you for researching and sharing this interesting info. I agree that this info must be carefully scrutinized. We have to validate what the people of the book claim against what the great reading tells us. There is nothing in the great reading about blowing horns on the new moon and in fact the "new moon" is never mentioned in the great reading. On the other hand, we are told in the great reading that "hagg"/feast is "ashhur ma'alumat" and we know that one of the meanings of "shahr" is "full-moon". The people of the book KNEW that the hagg/feast was on the full-moon. It is not a coincidence that the timing for the "hagg"/feast of the people of the book (Hag Sukkot) coincides with the fourth full-moon after the summer solstice.

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace all,

To Ayman and Nabster (our Normand Imam), Did you follow my advise?

Did you LOOK at the image below and said "Our Lord you have not created this in vain, glory to You, spare us the retribution of the Fire"

http//theabysmal.fenris.ca/theAbyss/Revolute/Lunar/Lunation.png

belH

start to let the teacher of the great reading and not Classical Arabic grammarians teach him the real language of the great reading.

Who gave you this title? THIS IS MY LORD'S TITLE

551 The Merciful
552 He has taught the Reading.

Do you think you can claim Your Creator Title...Are you NUTS...You are a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER

ayman

Peace Nabeel,

this thread is getting too annoying for me, so I am off, good luck Ayman, and good work by the way, pity it falls on some
wet behind the ears teenagers (well if they are not they certainly act like toddlers).
One day we will know for sure if you were right, for now, muslims are just slaves on the earth, or donkeys who carry zero's...

Don't be saddened brother when we have the higher ground. Those who follow the sectarian timing know that it has no real basis in the great reading and they know that their timing is 100% arbitrary and manmade. So all they can do is try to drag us into the mud with them. As you said, one day we will know for sure but what we know for certain is that each one will go to the eternal destination where the path that he chose took him or her. As such, even if we were wrong about some things, it doesn't matter since we did our best to follow the god's map, the great reading. It is about the hard journey on the straight path and not succumbing to the temptation of disregarding the map and taking easy short cuts through traditions and "scholars".

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Belal,

Who gave you this title?

You just did. Once again, please stop idolizing me. )

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace Hope4,

in fact the "new moon" is never mentioned in the great reading.

Ayman, stop lying about Our Lord

They ask you regarding the crescent moons, say They are a timing mechanism for the people and the Pilgrimage. And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed.
2189

ayman

Peace Belal,

Peace Hope4,

in fact the "new moon" is never mentioned in the great reading.

Ayman, stop lying about Our Lord

They ask you regarding the crescent moons, say They are a timing mechanism for the people and the Pilgrimage. And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed.
2189

Please underline the word "new moon" in your translation above. Belal, a word of advice, if you are going to accuse people that they are lying and be obnoxious about everything that you say and use big fonts then you had better be 100% sure because you know that you will get called on it and if you turn out to be wrong as usual, then you would only be further exposing more loudly your inability to patiently read my posts and even less so your own posts and your lack of logic in responding. Please take this as a friendly advice. )

Peace,

Ayman

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Peace Belal,

Ayman, stop lying about Our Lord

They ask you regarding the crescent moons, say They are a timing mechanism for the people and the Pilgrimage. And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed.
2189

Please underline the word "new moon" in your translation above. Belal, a word of advice, if you are going to accuse people that they are lying and be obnoxious about everything that you say and use big fonts then you had better be 100% sure because you know that you will get called on it and if you turn out to be wrong as usual, then you would only be further exposing more loudly your inability to patiently read my posts and even less so your own posts and your lack of logic in responding. Please take this as a friendly advice. )

Peace,

Ayman

He didnt use "new moon" in his translation..

hope4

Peace Hope4,

Thank you for researching and sharing this interesting info. I agree that this info must be carefully scrutinized. We have to validate what the people of the book claim against what the great reading tells us. There is nothing in the great reading about blowing horns on the new moon and in fact the "new moon" is never mentioned in the great reading. On the other hand, we are told in the great reading that "hagg"/feast is "ashhur ma'alumat" and we know that one of the meanings of "shahr" is "full-moon". The people of the book KNEW that the hagg/feast was on the full-moon. It is not a coincidence that the timing for the "hagg"/feast of the people of the book (Hag Sukkot) coincides with the fourth full-moon after the summer solstice.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman

Thank you for the explenation. Can I conclude from what I wrote earlier that the Jews used a luni-solar calander and not purely lunar one?

Peace

Hope

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Peace,

Peace Ayman

Thank you for the explenation. Can I conclude from what I wrote earlier that the Jews used a luni-solar calander and not purely lunar one?

Peace

Hope

Depends which 'Jews' you are talking about.

http//www.submission.org/fasting-bible.html

guest

Peace Guest,

It is a certainty unless you can quote passages that say the following things, which your false manmade timing is based on

O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.
O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.
O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.
O believers ignore 95 because the restricted "months" are not consecutive but are the arbitrary Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab.
O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.
O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.
O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.
O believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.

Peace,

Ayman

1.?O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.?

The starting point of a calendar is irreverent, illogical and pointless in counting number of years in lunar (or any) calendar system. This statement of yours demonstrates that you know NOTHING about calendar system. Yet, you are trying to establish new timing system. This is like using the testimony of a blind man for an eyewitness account. And this can only happen in Ayman?s system. Ayman is WRONG.

?O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.?

Again, knowledgeable people will laugh at this statement of yours as this has no impact on counting number of years. You are making a fool of yourself. Only the ignorant will be with you.

?O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.?

The order of the months has been established and used by Prophet Muhammad and remained intact. You did not produce any evidence to disprove this system. You are jealous of Prophet Muhammad and angry at God for not choosing you as a Prophet or a messenger. Please be thankful of what He gave you and do not cross bound set by the God. This is for your own good.

?O believers ignore 95 because the restricted "months" are not consecutive but are the arbitrary Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab.?

Ayman is the one ignoring 95 by forcing Ramadan in the restricted month. Plus there is a one year gap between his restricted months when he cannot witness the full moon after summer solstice due to bad weather. This is how horrible his design is.

?O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.?

Only an ignorant would ignore 2189 and that would be your system. Your attempt to turn truth into falsehood will never successed. Performing Hajj in the month of Al-Hijjah is fully compliant with 2189. The new moon is the marker and the Hajj is performed thereafter. 8th thru 13 are within the phases of the moon.

?O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.?

Ayman is WRONG again. We use day and night to calculate lunar month. When we say moon is 8 day old, it means we have used solar days (includes night i.e. 24 hrs interval) to calculate moon?s age. Ayman is incapable of comprehending this simple fact.

Ayman?s timing system is 100% visual based which means calculation is prohibited thus violating 1712 which allows for calculation based timing system.

Since there are at least THREE LONGEST DAYS (no clear marker), Ayman relies on madam the palm reader to determine which day to use as the marker. And since he has forbidden the calculation, he must witness the full moon. And if he cannot witness the full moon due to heavy cloud, he must wait a year to get back to his marker i.e. he incurs an error of 1 year. He has created a flawed system.

?O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.?

Ayman is WRONG again. We are using the correct meaning of Ramadan. Whereas Ayman is twisting God?s words to support false theory.

? believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.?

Ayman is the one who is ignoring 936. In his system there is no concept of months. He is defining June solstice to June solstice a year. Therefore, he has to fabricate months (unnatural) in violation of 936. Ayman is beating around the bush to prove his faulty point/logic. Therefore, only illogical people will follow his theory. As I said before there is no relation between month 1 and calculation of years. Ayman is desperate; he is throwing unintelligent questions at us to hide his falsehood.

ayman

Peace everyone,

1.?O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.?
The starting point of a calendar is irreverent, illogical and pointless in counting number of years in lunar (or any) calendar system. This statement of yours demonstrates that you know NOTHING about calendar system. Yet, you are trying to establish new timing system. This is like using the testimony of a blind man for an eyewitness account. And this can only happen in Ayman?s system. Ayman is WRONG.

When there is a switch from a Luni-solar calendar to a lunar calendar then the lunar calendar will depend on when the switch was made. This is due to the fact that the lunar calendar shifts by a month every three years. Therefore, had the switch been made three years earlier then what is now Ramadhan would have been Shaaban and had the switch been made three years later then Ramadhan would have been what is now Shawal. Only those who can't even count to 3 don't understand this.

?O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.?

Again, knowledgeable people will laugh at this statement of yours as this has no impact on counting number of years. You are making a fool of yourself. Only the ignorant will be with you.

Had month 1 been the actual supposed date of the Hijra then month 9 would be 3 months later and Guest would be fasting 3 months later. Guest is the only one not to know this indisputable fact.

?O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.?
The order of the months has been established and used by Prophet Muhammad and remained intact. You did not produce any evidence to disprove this system. You are jealous of Prophet Muhammad and angry at God for not choosing you as a Prophet or a messenger. Please be thankful of what He gave you and do not cross bound set by the God. This is for your own good.

Notice that Guest doesn't contest the fact that his present arbitrary timing is 100% dependent on the order of the months. Even the stupidest person can't dispute this fact. So now unlike the other points where he likes to play stupid, he is forced to shamelessly lie. Even Guest's moronic scholars don't make such a ridiculous and baseless claim about the prophet. Guest is a liar who has attributed the order of the months to the prophet without any authority from the god. On previous posts, he has admitted that he is not following the great reading but is following his "innermost thoughts" (another word for his "innermost desires&quot. As we saw, his outermost thoughts are soiled with stupidity and lies so we can be sure that things only get dirtier for his innermost desires.

?O believers ignore 95 because the restricted "months" are not consecutive but are the arbitrary Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab.?
Ayman is the one ignoring 95 by forcing Ramadan in the restricted month. Plus there is a one year gap between his restricted months when he cannot witness the full moon after summer solstice due to bad weather. This is how horrible his design is.

The question was about providing anything from the great reading to support the sectarian arbitrary timing of the restricted "months". The question was not about me. Obviously, Guest has nothing to support his falsehood that the arbitrary "Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab" are the "restricted months" and therefore as usual his satanic innermost thoughts tempt him to divert the issue with false idiotic babbling.

?O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.?
Only an ignorant would ignore 2189 and that would be your system. Your attempt to turn truth into falsehood will never successed. Performing Hajj in the month of Al-Hijjah is fully compliant with 2189. The new moon is the marker and the Hajj is performed thereafter. 8th thru 13 are within the phases of the moon.

Only people like Guest don't know that ALL days within any month are "within the phases of the moon" so it could be the xxth-xxth. So Guest has just called himself an ignorant because indeed he ignores 2189. Guest listens to 2189 saying that the crescents provide timing for the "hajj" but then his evil innermost thoughts change what he heard into "the new moon is the marker and the "hajj" is performed within any of the phases of the moon" (on the 8th there is no crescent but there is about half full and on the 13th there is no crescent either but the moons is about 95% full).

?O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.?
Ayman is WRONG again. We use day and night to calculate lunar month. When we say moon is 8 day old, it means we have used solar days (includes night i.e. 24 hrs interval) to calculate moon?s age. Ayman is incapable of comprehending this simple fact.
Ayman?s timing system is 100% visual based which means calculation is prohibited thus violating 1712 which allows for calculation based timing system.
Since there are at least THREE LONGEST DAYS (no clear marker), Ayman relies on madam the palm reader to determine which day to use as the marker. And since he has forbidden the calculation, he must witness the full moon. And if he cannot witness the full moon due to heavy cloud, he must wait a year to get back to his marker i.e. he incurs an error of 1 year. He has created a flawed system.

No one can use the day and night alone to calculate the lunar month. One cannot look at the day and night alone to know that the moon is 8 or any xx days old. This is an indisputable fact that only the dumbest don't know. Also, Guest's innermost thoughts are deluding him into changing 1712 to say that it talks about calculating the moon's age in the lunar month when it clearly talks about calculating the number of years. Guest is also further demonstrating that he is a pathological liar. I never have "forbidden" the calculation for knowing the number of years or anything.

?O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.?
Ayman is WRONG again. We are using the correct meaning of Ramadan. Whereas Ayman is twisting God?s words to support false theory.

What is the meaning that Guest and his sectarian accomplices are using? As usual he is lying and this is why he doesn't dare to tell us this mysterious meaning. He knows that he is using it as a meaningless proper name of an arbitrary month.

? believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.?
Ayman is the one who is ignoring 936. In his system there is no concept of months. He is defining June solstice to June solstice a year. Therefore, he has to fabricate months (unnatural) in violation of 936. Ayman is beating around the bush to prove his faulty point/logic. Therefore, only illogical people will follow his theory. As I said before there is no relation between month 1 and calculation of years. Ayman is desperate; he is throwing unintelligent questions at us to hide his falsehood.

There is an inherent relation in the sectarian false calendar between month 1 and the present sectarian Ramadhan. Had month 1 been one month earlier then Ramadhan year 1 would have been 1 month earlier and so would be all the Ramadhans up to today. By merely recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names, sectarians are not counting 12 but they have not stopped counting since month 1 and this is why present day so-called Ramadhan is 100% tied to month 1. Guest is either a liar or too dumb to understand this simple indisputable fact (most likely both).

Peace,

Ayman

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

So what it the best meaning for "ramadhan" according to you? A meaningless name of an arbitrary month? Or the circular and nonsensical "month of fast" so that when the god says "shahr ramadhan" he means "the month of the month of fast" according to your logic?

What month? You said "ramadhan" means the "month of fast" so "shahr ramadhan" according to you means "the month of the month of fast". Can't you provide even a half-decent answer that doesn't reduce 2185 into nonsense?

No, that is your distortion (building straw man) to justify a meaningless nonsensical full moon fantasy.

shahr ramadan ? "time" between two successive lunar phases.

falyasumhu -- so he should fast it (the month/Ramadan).

Prefer context/cross-reference for best meaning not dictionaries written between 13th and 19th century CE.

2185 clearly says "whoever amongst you xxxx should fast". Regardless of what xxxx means (vow or whatever other imaginary meanings you can make up), this implies that "those amongst you who don't xxxx are not oligated to fast". This is basic logic. You talk about strawman because you only see as far as your nose and fail to see the logical implications of your own interpretation.

No, believers who witness including the blind, those in cloudy weather or indoors after the sunset are obligated.

353 Rabbana amanna bima anzalta waittabaAAna alrrasoola faoktubna maAAa alshshahideena
Our Lord, we believed with what You descended, and we followed the messenger, so write us with the witnessing.

You are evading the question because you know that you have no answer.

Again, simply pretend you're on an island Nov 2, 2009 see the 100% full moon before the sunset.

Altitude and Azimuth of the Moon
Nov 2, 2009
Eastern Standard Time

Time Altitude Azimuth Fraction Illuminated
1704 3.0 67.1 1.00
1705 3.1 67.3 1.00
1706 3.3 67.4 1.00

Altitude and Azimuth of the Sun
1704 0.1 250.9
1705 -0.0 251.1
1706 -0.8 251.2

This has already been proven false. Why do you keep repeating false arguments? The things that are in 51-2 (honoring contracts, the livestock being made lawful, not hunting while restricted) clearly don't apply only around Mecca and only during "hajj". In fact, "hajj" is nowhere mentioned.

How does restricting hunting only on the 8th to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and only on people walking half-naked while wearing nothing but towels and only in the vicinity of Mecca would be better for wild life than a global hunting restriction for the summer season?

I answered all your questions but so far you can't answer any of my questions.

Answering questions with rhetorical questions is not answering questions.

Clearly not global restriction (some animals give birth year round) nor hajj a feast to fast in...

2196 fasiyamu thalathati ayyamin fee alhajji -- so fasting three days in the hajj

Your arbitrary "restricted months" are haphazardly arranged as months 11, 12, 1 and 7 and are not consecutive?
There is nothing that anyone knew about the Islamic calendar in pre-Islamic times, including the start of the era, the order of the months or the names of the months (all of which the location of its months are based on).
Then post where in Qur'an it says that the "restricted" months are consecutive.
Then post evidence that full moons were used/skipped, etc. in Islamic or any times in history or as waiting devices with meanings other than those from dictionaries written between the 13th - 19th centuries which also have Ramadan defined as a month.

It is not a strawman unless you can disprove the following reality

Ramadan Start- Friday 21-August
Libya, Turkey, Lebanon (Shiites), Kosovo, Macedonia, Romania, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Albania, Slovenia, Russia, Germany, EU (The European Council for Fatwa and Research).

Ramadan Start ? Saturday 22-August
Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Philippines, China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Syria, Lebanon (Sunni), Jordan, Palestine, Sudan, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, France, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, USA (Following Saudi), UK.

Ramadan Start ? Sunday 23-August
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, USA (some communities by actual local sighting)

Again, all the above sources (Libya, Bosnia, Egypt, Saudi, India, Pakistan, etc.) that are independent from you and me didn't conspire with me against you just to prove you wrong. The above is the reality of what happened. What you are saying (that there is no dispute) is only in your wishful imagination.

No dispute when I should start fasting; nor would it make a difference if I had to wear glasses or if it was too cloudy outside or if I was indoors or I forgot to go outside view the full moon like you suggest.

When did you start your fast by the way?

23 August 2009 and have 10 days to make up due to travel and a bad cold.

Again, you are biased and therefore looking at things from a biased point of view. Please post an independent source (like I did) showing that there was ever a dispute on when the full-moon occurs. If you can't then just be honest and admit it.

How can there be a dispute on a thing not used in history to time Ramadan. Post evidence.

More importantly, just like guest, Belal and a billion sectarians, I am not surprised that you evade answering the most important question

How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.

You clearly have ZERO answer.

Post my opinion of hajj other than the above about feasting and fasting which before I post prefer to look at the subject thoroughly; again your straw man opinion on my view. This thread is about timing of fast which I did look at and found ZERO evidence for the full moon. Open a thread on hajj, this one is all over the place.

Peace