Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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Peace belH,
i do not like science fiction, but the guy you are talking about seems to be suffering from kleptomania which is a psychiatric
disorder in which the patient has an uncontrollable urge to steal, so you are right, it will be cruel to kill him/her, instead treatment
will be more acceptable
The treatment of kleptomania with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like lexapro or effexor)... oki? and probably counseling too )about the ayat on theft even without Samia advice, I still do not agree with your interpretation,
but I have to accept Samia translation because her Arabic is much better than mine...jazaa is closer to reward / recompense,
for outcome in arabic one would say i guess natijah, hasilahPeace Nabster,
Please note that to be the Judge in this community, You MUST use the Quran...It is a Precondition, otherwise, you cannot be the Judge.
Please, you need to quote the Verses that Supports your Judgment (i.e., Killing the thief)
Peace
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theNabster explained what I wanted to, re "outcome".
The Outcome could be a reward, Punishment or Mutual (i.e., Salary is the outcome of working)
Can you translate theseReward/recompense is of the same kind as what is done; but this is meaningless and too simplified
If I teach, the outcome is that students learn; my recompense can be money, payment.
If I teach, and the outcome was negative (students did not learn because they were not serious) I will still get paid as a recompense for my work.
So, same work, same recompense and different outcome. -
Peace belH,
i do not like science fiction, but the guy you are talking about seems to be suffering from kleptomania which is a psychiatric
disorder in which the patient has an uncontrollable urge to steal, so you are right, it will be cruel to kill him/her, instead treatment
will be more acceptable
The treatment of kleptomania with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like lexapro or effexor)... oki? and probably counseling too )Peace Nabster,
99% of today thieves steal because they want to get richer...Do you think a psychological treatment is the proper punishment? Do you think that is how Medoff (the one who stole 50 Billion dollar) should have been punished?
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theNabster explained what I wanted to, re "outcome".
Reward/recompense is of the same kind as what is done; but this is meaningless and too simplified
If I teach, the outcome is that students learn; my recompense can be money, payment.
If I teach, and the outcome was negative (students did not learn because they were not serious) I will still get paid as a recompense for my work.
So, same work, same recompense and different outcome.In your example, there are Four (4) Outcomes, two for the student, if he pay attention or not (the outcomes are learn or not), and two for you, if you did a good Job or not (you get paid or not).
Can you translate these
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Peace belH,
I won't be so sure, where did you pick this statistic, from the air, or from an electrical impulse in your brain?
besides, after the first few millions, people do not really need more money, it is indeed a disease anyway, but encouraged by
a crazy system...
you know very well who end up being punished, it is always the poor...
this time seems an exception, but in fact if you look deep it was not...
Mr Medoff as you call him did what he had to do >DPeace Nabster,
99% of today thieves steal because they want to get richer...Do you think a psychological treatment is the proper punishment? Do you think that is how Medoff (the one who stole 50 Billion dollar) should have been punished?
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Not applicable, speculative, he did not operate in a muslim country, there is no muslim state, and he is not a muslim...
the law applicable on him has been applied...Peace,
Well, you do not have to answer if you choose to, however, your answer will help us to reach to our Lord's truth.
peace -
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Belal, now the problem is with the meaning of "outcome"!
The point is, let's focus on the verse in question.
Why would they ask about the outcome of the lost cup? What does it mean?Samia, if you think the word "Outcome" is not the best word (which I might agree), then what is the best English word that can fit in the Following
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Peace Samia,
don't waste your time getting any help towards proving the ayah meaning anything else but chopping hands off... chop chop chop, belH is into the maiming, mutilating chopping carving business >D and he loves it the sanguinary brute...If you were Medoff who stole the 50 billion dollar, would you rather choose to be jailed for 128 years (His actual jail time) or would you choose to get your hands cut off?
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since i was naughty with you, i will be funny with you...
if they keep my two hands in a bucket of ice for me, i will accept to have them both amputated (because then i can get them re-attached by a plastic surgeon with the millions i hid outside ;D )still you are not convincing me bro... Allah is wiser than us all...
If you were Medoff who stole the 50 billion dollar, would you rather choose to be jailed for 128 years (His actual jail time) or would you choose to get your hand cut off?
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Peace belH
and by the way,
even if you cut one hand only, with the advance in medicine, with a proper donor, you can get a graft hand re-attached too by the way, so the rich will always win, even in an islamic system... that is unless science development gets forbidden brickwall ... -
since i was naughty with you, i will be funny with you...
if they keep my two hands in a bucket of ice for me, i will accept to have them both amputated (because then i can get them re-attached by a plastic surgeon with the millions i hid outside ;D )still you are not convincing me bro... Allah is wiser than us all...
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 128 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 100 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 50 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 20 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 15 years in jail? -
belH, peace
For me I have no idea... for others I have no idea too...
to be honest, if there was a shadow of a doubt in my mind that it could make sense to amputate two hands
for theft and that there is logic into it, it will be like the zina directive which is very clear.
the theft directive is not clear, and left open to interpretation intentionally, there is wisdom into this.
if you do not understand the wisdom, then tough for you.
ahl al sunnah (sunna and shia) worked around it by still amputating but by diminishing the impact of taking
the meaning cutting off = chopping off, only they made the matters worse, because they had to invent other clauses
where they start chopping someone's body bit by bit!!!
I tell you what happened, in the first civil war of the muslims, most of the good muslims who knew the correct interpretation
of the Quran, including Ali, Hussein and Hassan were killed, so they had to invent a way to explain the Quran for the people,
and it was a golden opportunity for the enemies of God to invent something to justify any meaning they want to the Quran.
Imam Shafie gave that opportunity by making the Hadith the infallible words of the Prophet, then Bukhari, Muslim, and the other Collectors produced them...
That includes this disgusting interpretation of the punishment for the thief you want to cling to.
Do not get me wrong, I have no sympathy for thieves, and I am not weak in my decision making, but justice has to be
rational, logical, and not based on false unreliable information.
Allah knows best -
That includes this disgusting interpretation of the punishment for the thief you want to cling to.
Well, it still less harsh than 20 years in Jail...moreover, God's wisdom might be too hard for us to grasp, when thinking about cutting off hands (which I believe is too harsh to imagine), but, We only can say "We Hear and We Obey"
Moreover, now we do not practice this punishment anymore, however Humans practice it against Innocents.
Here is today's civilization that because of it you think the Quran Punishment is barbaric.http//www.thewe.cc/thewei/_/images11/iraq_us_invasion/boy_hands_amputated.jpe
I hope your empathy for Meldoff is not the same for this innocent Kid
I'm done with this subject
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Peace
the theft directive is not clear,
Quran says "I am Clear",you say that Quran says wrong it is not clear. Is this not a blame on the Quran??
Such a severe punishment cannot be left AMBIGUOUS.
the meaning cutting off = chopping off, only they made the matters worse, because they had to invent other clauses
where they start chopping someone's body bit by bit!!!Provide the proof for this rubbish statement.
Regards -
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 128 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 100 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 50 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 20 years in jail?
Would you agree that cutting off the hands is less harsh than 15 years in jail?I think cutting off my hands would be exponentially more harsh than spending the rest of my life in prison