Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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Do you believe that He Was married to Sarah; then, He divorced Sarah in order to marry Hajer; then, he divorced Hajer in order to remarry Sarah?
That's a traditional story, it's not supported in the Qur'aan. As far as we know, based on the Qur'aan, both Ishmael and Isaac were born of the same mother (i.e. Sarah).
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Peace
We have a huge problem with uber feminists who tell you that if a man can have more than one wive, why not them have more than one husband, but tough luck for them, it is extremely rare for men to accept or admit that they are married to the same wife (or go and find a community that tolerate that). < ---- that was an acidic joke
but joke and polyandry aside...
it is probably OK that in a society where there are not enough males for one reason or another, it might be possible for controlled polygamy to be implemented. Some women even feminists argue that they would rather have their husbands with a second wive than him mocking about in hiding with a mistress...
In my reading of the Quran, polygamy per se is not forbidden, but is not actively encouraged either.
However the marrying of widows with orphans on the other hand is encouraged for those who can handle it (i.e. particularly dutifully).
If we were in a proper Muslim State, I do not think we could legislate against polygamy, however, it could work like this, for the first wife the state could help profusely from state funds, however anything extra, that will be a luxury for the claimant, meaning you can get a second wife, but there will be conditions, the first condition being that you can afford it, etc.
and God knows best...
I think that free-minds wants to address the usual audience that get exposed to its message in the west, and that is the first hurdle against communities such as muslim, mormon, etc are the issues of polygamy and underage sex, by saying that it is not the case, you at least do not put off the reader from going into the web-site, and learning better..., and there is some arguments against marrying more than one wife in these complicated societies we live in anyway, so it is not false, in my view...
as always it is a matter of context... -
That's a traditional story, it's not supported in the Qur'aan. As far as we know, based on the Qur'aan, both Ishmael and Isaac were born of the same mother (i.e. Sarah).
Peace Ahamed,
The Torah tells us that Abraham were married to two Women whom conceived one son each, Ismail (hajer 's) and Issac (Sarah's).http//www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen16.pdf
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Salam,
Just to add my two cents worth...It seems from the Quran that Abraham was indeed married to two women. One who bore him Ismail, and, many years later, another who bore him Isaac.
The evidence for this can be found as follows
- When Abraham is raising the foundation of the Temple, he is helped by Ismail, who, to help in such task, must at least have been a young adult.
- When Abraham is visited in old age by the angels, and is given news of a son, he says his wife is barren and could not possibly have children (thus ruling her out from being Ismail's mother).
- The conversation of Abraham with the angels always refers to one wife (he never says "one of my wives is barren"...he simply says "my wife is barren" which means that the mother of Ismail is no longer on the scene (having either passed away or been divorced) when Isaac is born.
Please chose your sources carefully. The current Torah/Bible is pretty much the same as todays Hadith (i.e. full of lies and conjecture).
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Peace
Evidence PleaseRegards
Well, the first thief was caught on camera and the second red-handed with the stolen purse in his hands......
Then they confessed when they were confronted by eye-witnesses. The judge accepted the evidence. I hope you do, too whatever -
Why are you running away from answering my Question Why Free-minds.org are translating 5-33 different from 5-38?
Running away? Why? Someone told you I signed this translation or participated in it?
I hope you don't ask me next time why Shakir said this or Yusuf Ali said that...
It's just like that. -
Well, One is for the Cub and one for the thief, as I said before.
However, Yousuf's Brother story is not and cannot be used to cancel out 5-38 as I showed the reasons before.
Did I say that?
You said to Wakas "ask Samia", and Samia respondedAsk samia if there are two (2) Hwa in the "two red arabic words" or not? Further, ask her if one belongs to the Thief and one belongs to the Cup or not?
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peace Layth,
Salam,
Just to add my two cents worth...It seems from the Quran that Abraham was indeed married to two women. One who bore him Ismail, and, many years later, another who bore him Isaac.
The evidence for this can be found as follows
- When Abraham is raising the foundation of the Temple, he is helped by Ismail, who, to help in such task, must at least have been a young adult.
- When Abraham is visited in old age by the angels, and is given news of a son, he says his wife is barren and could not possibly have children (thus ruling her out from being Ismail's mother).
- The conversation of Abraham with the angels always refers to one wife (he never says "one of my wives is barren"...he simply says "my wife is barren" which means that the mother of Ismail is no longer on the scene (having either passed away or been divorced) when Isaac is born.
Please chose your sources carefully. The current Torah/Bible is pretty much the same as todays Hadith (i.e. full of lies and conjecture).
- IF it is taken literally as raising a physical building.
- It can also mean WHEN the "angels" visited Abraham his wife was barren, i.e. at that time, not for all times past and present. She may have just been post menopause..... hence the age.
- wives can be divorced or pass away, yes.
Based on the evidence presented.
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Peace all,
one thing I personally find very objectionable with some peeps in free-minds is that idea they have about allegorical and metaphorical aspects in the Quran which they take as far as arguing that Prophets, Angels, Jinns, and Quranic Stories inclusive of Hell fire and Paradise are just parables to teach us lessons and do not really exist or have not really existed in the past...
This makes a mockery of the Quran and Allah's Message, and removes any binding, because the whole thing becomes a work of pop bubblegum psychology, the kind of stuff you listen to at self improvement seminars, or philosophy seminars about the meaning of life...
I guess those who think that come from that kind of background too, in my opinion, not that I diss them, I flirted with this kind of thing for a while, but the message given is pretty shallow and only scratches the surface of reality, even if it says the opposite... -
Please chose your sources carefully. The current Torah/Bible is pretty much the same as todays Hadith (i.e. full of lies and conjecture).
Peace all,
Layth, There are no evidences in Quran say that the Torah and Injeel are or will be corrupted, but will be guarded as the Quran.
After all, The Ziker includes the Quran and what were revealed before the Quran.
To stand before God and say that we thought the Torah and Injeel are corrupted, and therefore, we did not give any weight to its contents will be hard to argue without authority from Quran. Actually, the only authority we Have is the hadiths that say that.Based on the above, Would you agree that Today's Translations of the Torah, Bible, and Quran are full of lies and conjecture, but the Original Versions (Hebrew Torah, Aramaic Injeel, and Arabic Quran), which exist today are not corrupted.
Running away? Why? Someone told you I signed this translation or participated in it?
I hope you don't ask me next time why Shakir said this or Yusuf Ali said that...
It's just like that.You are running away from saying the Truth...The truth that 5-33 free-minds.org's translation is correct and 5-38 is not...5-38 translation represents the Translator understanding and not the actual word by word translation. 5-38 translation is a Sectarian Translation as Shia and Suna's Translation of 24-2.
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peace Layth,
- IF it is taken literally as raising a physical building.
- It can also mean WHEN the "angels" visited Abraham his wife was barren, i.e. at that time, not for all times past and present. She may have just been post menopause..... hence the age.
- wives can be divorced or pass away, yes.
Based on the evidence presented.
Peace Wakas,
If you believe in the Torah, Injeel and Quran, you wouldn't be Lost as you are today...you will know the True story of Abraham and Yousuf, and You will know that Hajj is to Jerusalem where Abraham built the Restricted House. -
Peace belH, all,
to realign back to the title of this thread and belH accusation that Free-Minds.org is a Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.Can belH ever so kindly enlighten me as what he means by the word Sect (in detail) that he labels Free-Minds.org, Suni and Shia?
We can then move better forward, because I am really unsure what is the purpose of this thread now...  
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You are running away from saying the Truth...The truth that 5-33 free-minds.org's translation is correct and 5-38 is not...5-38 translation represents the Translator understanding and not the actual word by word translation. 5-38 translation is a Sectarian Translation as Shia and Suna's Translation of 24-2.
Peace
Sorry to butt into the conversation, but a little confused here. If you translate something word to word from one language to another will it make sense on the other end? Or do we look to translate something to presurve its meaning which is not necessarily word to word? Which is more important?
Peace
Hope
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Peace belH, all,
to realign back to the title of this thread and belH accusation that Free-Minds.org is a Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.Can belH ever so kindly enlighten me as what he means by the word Sect (in detail) that he labels Free-Minds.org, Suni and Shia?
We can then move better forward, because I am really unsure what is the purpose of this thread now...  
Peace,
As I said before, Since Free-minds.org are Claiming, In their Welcome Page ("WHAT IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND TODAY'S PRACTICES?", that Their Understanding of Islam is the True Islam, then anyone who does not agree with their understanding can accuse them that they are a Sect (A group who hijacked Islam).
Thus, I'm in dispute with Free-minds.org until they do one of the following
1-Prove to me that their understanding is the right one; example why this is trueIn Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (1276), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...
2-Free-minds.org becomes Moderator and not Judge between the different understanding of Quran.
Otherwise, both have the right to accuse each others of being sectarians (because both claim that they represent the true Islam)
I hope you would save this post so you would not have to ask the same question again.
Peace -
Peace
Sorry to butt into the conversation, but a little confused here. If you translate something word to word from one language to another will it make sense on the other end? Or do we look to translate something to presurve its meaning which is not necessarily word to word? Which is more important?
Peace
Hope
Peace,
Translate Word by Word and let the Reader, who Does not know Arabic, decide about his understanding...otherwise, we will be misleading the readers who do not know arabic, by feeding them the translator understanding and not the True Message...The Majorities of Today's Bible, Torah, and Quran Translations are misleading because of the Translators being affiliated with different Sects that want to enforce their understanding in the translation.
