Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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If I would go by the Quran under a muslim state, I would cut from his resources, since I cannot cut his three or more hands.
Please define ?his resources?. And don?t forget the option when the thief has no other resource except his mind and body. Now, don?t let me wait for the definition too long. As for the ?three or more hands?, that is your fabrication or your adaption of someone else?s fabrication.
The way you talk about thiefs is pretty harsh. Judging by your mindset it is not unusual to see you wanting to chop off his hands. God, on the other hand, is forgiving and compassionate
You forgot the most important attributes of the God JUSTICE (best)
539 Whoever repents after his wrongdoing, and reforms, then God will accept his repentance. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
I have already explained 539; perhaps you don?t want to take heed.
For the disbeliever humiliation in this world and far worst waits for them in the hereafter. If they (thief) reform after the hands has been cut off then they don?t suffer the far worst in the hereafter.BTW, your question "would you like to be his friend?" is irrelevant, and shows that you should never think of becoming a judge. It also shows that you go by your feelings, rather than the law and case at hand.
Likewise you should not write about the God. You are a misleader.
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rotfl rotfl rotfl
dude are you into gory stuff or what...
laugh
here in the UK some feral youth will stab you just because you look at them the "wrong" way...
i am for the return of capital punishment, but you know why there is no capital punishment in so many
western countries now ...
let us see if you are that bright Mr guest...Because they are disbeliever like you and don't follow the Quran.
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Peace,
The answer is very simple. You use your heart, reason and logic which equates to the innermost thought to find God and the Quran. After that you ?hear and obey?. Your dilemma is you haven?t fully accepted the God (Allah) and the Quran yet.
peace
hmm
I'm not sure i understand you.
Are you saying that those faculties are only there to reach God and the Quran and then afterwards "hear and obey"?
Are you suggesting that after that there is no use for them?I think your dilema is that you havn't put your full trust in God (Your designer and creator) yet.
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peace
Guest
And what will you call them after you find them to be true thieves?
I think it would be more righteous and better in the sight of God to just call them a "theif"
Can i just ask what do you mean by true theif?
and also
A man in a third world country steals some fruit or money from a store. what should be his punishment?
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Really, a cursed individual like you calling me a disbeliever, i am really touched...
So where are you, venting your fury in front of a computer screen...
What participation to this ummah have you brought or are you bringing that is
making any iota of difference if you are as good as you seem to imply, and if your innermost
thoughts are giving you the infallible answers that centuries of gloom the Scholars of Islam
have not been able to resolve.
Tell me guest, what is your solution to lift the curse of Allah on the Ummah for which now
"musibataha fidiniha"...
And since you are so prestigious and knowledgeable why are you hiding behind the most
vulgar of nicks "guest" not even wanting to show an inkling of your id?
Who are you scared of?
I personally have been condemned to death by some jihadi groups, members idiots like you who think
they know it all and who are ready to squander their lives for the sake of Satan.
You are no better, in fact you are worse, because you are a coward who hides behind a nick and
snipes with stupid words in forums with a cup of tea at his side.
You are not here to teach, you are not here to learn, you just come and aggravate peeps not even with
proper muslim manners...
You, belH, and the likes of you make me sick really...
If for you this is jihad, let me give you glad tidings that, Allah willing, it is not accepted, and is turned as torment
against you instead of reward, because you are here for point scoring, not to help and teach... yes, this is what my innermost thoughts are telling me...
Begone with you...
Of course the mods are right to warn you of a permanent ban, you behave like a pest...Because they are disbeliever like you and don't follow the Quran.
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Because they are disbeliever like you and don't follow the Quran.
nope
what makes you think he is a kafir and what makes you think your not a kafir?
That's a strong accusation to make. You need to be careful. -
No. This a possible answer to the question. That's all.
It is perhaps a silly possible answer and perhaps a mistake to call people on this site "nonbelievers". We already have someone here who thinks that people who do not agree with him are stupid, nonbelievers, etc. This site is called "free minds" and that is exactly what it is, a site for people who wish to understand other peoples beliefs and views on all subjects. It is an accepting site, not one to ridicule others or to name call.
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Please define ?his resources?. And don?t forget the option when the thief has no other resource except his mind and body. Now, don?t let me wait for the definition too long. As for the ?three or more hands?, that is your fabrication or your adaption of someone else?s fabrication.
Definition of "resources".
Read and answer
Did God create the universe with his three or more hands, or his might/resouces/power (5147)?
Were David, Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael resourceful or did they have multiple hands (3817; 3857)?
Why does God show us the punishment for theft put into action by Joseph if this is not what he wants us to do? Does God want to confuse us? Is He telling us this story for fun?
Where does it say that the punishment used by Jospeh is out-of-date/not for us to implement as you have conjectured?
538 The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut-off/cut their means/resources as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise.
Nice try, belal. I knew that you would come up with this arguement. It clearly states "THE male thief" and "THE female thief" emphasizing not only that the punishment is for both males or females, but that one should cut/cut-off their multiple resources, and not their respective three or more hands.
Furthermore you are punishing one person at a time. Mentioning male and female shows that we are to punish both sexes the same way/treat them equally. Since you punish one person at a time, how can you cut their three or more hands?
This verse would not really make much sense if we use your logic, since you are advocating to cut off both hands of the thief. The punishment however happens for each person at a time/seperately - how then can you cut off the three or more hands of such a thief?
Also, does the verse that follows make sense if we use your logic?
539 Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, then God will accept his repentance. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
How nice! With no more hands left!
728 When they commit evil acts, they say, "We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it." Say, "God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know?"
729 Say, "My Lord orders justice, and that you be devoted at every institution of obeisance/submission (masjid), and that you call on Him, while being faithful to Him in the system; as He initiated you, so you will return."
I have already explained 539; perhaps you don?t want to take heed.
For the disbeliever humiliation in this world and far worst waits for them in the hereafter. If they (thief) reform after the hands has been cut off then they don?t suffer the far worst in the hereafter.Nice...with no more hands...
Likewise you should not write about the God. You are a misleader.
rotfl
Nice one, guest. You dont have any better arguements than an arguementum ad hominem.
I guess that's how you get by in your discussions when you dont have solid arguements... with insults, one of them being to theNabster
Because they are disbeliever like you and don't follow the Quran.
nope
4911 O you who acknowledge, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than them. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than them. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining acknowledgement. Anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
Anyways..I dont think it makes much sense in continuing to discuss with you.
218 Deaf, dumb, blind - they cannot turn back.
Well for me, it is a rotten answer, as calling a muslim a kafir is not an easy matter, and you are cursed for it...
i do not feel like giving you the answer to the question, you are not here to learn anyway, you are too opinionated, and
very hard to argue with.That does not mean I will not disagree with most of what you say about Al Quran, it is just that you are unpleasant to communicate with
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Well for me, it is a rotten answer, as calling a muslim a kafir is not an easy matter, and you are cursed for it...
i do not feel like giving you the answer to the question, you are not here to learn anyway, you are too opinionated, and
very hard to argue with.That does not mean I will not agree with a lot of what you say about Al Quran, it is just that you are unpleasant to communicate with, and it is my right to choose not to communicate with you, even if you are a muslim, which i guess you are...
No. This a possible answer to the question. That's all.
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Really, a cursed individual like you calling me a disbeliever, i am really touched...
So where are you, venting your fury in front of a computer screen...
What participation to this ummah have you brought or are you bringing that is
making any iota of difference if you are as good as you seem to imply, and if your innermost
thoughts are giving you the infallible answers that centuries of gloom the Scholars of Islam
have not been able to resolve.
Tell me guest, what is your solution to lift the curse of Allah on the Ummah for which now
"musibataha fidiniha"...
And since you are so prestigious and knowledgeable why are you hiding behind the most
vulgar of nicks "guest" not even wanting to show an inkling of your id?
Who are you scared of?
I personally have been condemned to death by some jihadi groups, members idiots like you who think
they know it all and who are ready to squander their lives for the sake of Satan.
You are no better, in fact you are worse, because you are a coward who hides behind a nick and
snipes with stupid words in forums with a cup of tea at his side.
You are not here to teach, you are not here to learn, you just come and aggravate peeps not even with
proper muslim manners...
You, belH, and the likes of you make me sick really...
If for you this is jihad, let me give you glad tidings that, Allah willing, it is not accepted, and is turned as torment
against you instead of reward, because you are here for point scoring, not to help and teach... yes, this is what my innermost thoughts are telling me...
Begone with you...
Of course the mods are right to warn you of a permanent ban, you behave like a pest...if I were a moderator I would have banned you for your above post.
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Sorry but I do not take lightly being called a kafir, the one saying such an utterance is for me is a criminal as i am a muslim...
you should see the posts that guest wrote when we argued about the calendar moon...
and if i am banned, then so be it, it will be worth it for defending my honour, and in fact the honour of other peeps too who were called the same by Mr guest...if I were a moderator I would have banned you for your above post.
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Sorry but I do not take lightly being called a kafir, the one saying such an utterance is for me is a criminal as i am a muslim...
you should see the posts that guest wrote when we argued about the calendar moon...
and if i am banned, then so be it, it will be worth it for defending my honour, and in fact the honour of other peeps too who were called the same by Mr guest...Peace theNabster
Two wrongs do not make a right. Please be patient and debate in a proper manner, do not result to playground 'tick tack'. If someone calls you a kafir thats their shame for not knowing how to debate or talk. Do not lower yourself to that status. Just a friendly reminder. peace
Peace
Hope
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Sorry but I do not take lightly being called a kafir, the one saying such an utterance is for me is a criminal as i am a muslim...
you should see the posts that guest wrote when we argued about the calendar moon...
and if i am banned, then so be it, it will be worth it for defending my honour, and in fact the honour of other peeps too who were called the same by Mr guest...Peace
Brother ! Relaxwhatever
Regards
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peace Belh
Only it is a desire when our logic limits us from accepting God's orders that we cannot comprehend. An example, the Logic of many members in this forum limiting them from accepting the Virgin Birth of Jesus...Is their understanding a Logic or what? (choose the English word that you think it suits their faulty understanding).
From my understanding it's God's orders that we follow our heart, reason and logic. From history we have seen that we are converging towards the truth in all matters when we use these faculties without decieving them.
With respect to your example
Logic would say that a virgin cannot get pregnant as this is God's law after all.If you believe in miracles and God intervening within his own laws, then reason would come in and say that it's possible. But if you believe that God would not intervene in such a manner, then you would reason that i have misunderstood this verse or there are somethings that i lack knowledge in to make an informed decision on this.
I think their understanding is a result of reasoning.
We all use our reason, but some decieve their own and ignore at times to get to something they want. This want could be a conformity with their religious belief or to achieve certain lusts etc.
The Person, who was teaching Moses, was following God's orders (hence, it was not his own Logic).
Where does it say he was following God's orders?
Our Logic can be sound or Faulty...Think of why Humans are always in disagreement (their Logic not agreeing) with each others in many issues, including religion?
I don't think it can be faulty unless you have a serious disability. I don't think that disagreements are from logic. They are from the way people reason.
Some would ignore their logic because they prioritise their desire more and reason that their desire is more valuable. some ignore their logic because they reason that their interpretation is more important. Some ignore their logic because their heart tells them to. Out of these, the only justifiable reason for ignoring you logic, is that your heart told you to as that is another faculty and we are asked to use.
Absolutely!! However, not all the time knowledge is given to us...Just imagine if Moses was lift in the Dark, not knowing the wisdom behind the actions he witnessed.
I know. Which is why i pointed out that it's not our logic that's the problem, in this case it's the lack of knowledge. In many cases it's the way people reason.
As I said before, the reason of this thread is to show the True Translation of 5-38, which free-minds.org deliberately twisted.
I think Thieves today suffer sever punishment than 5-38 when throwing in Jail for 10, 20, or even 150 years, as in the case of Medoff.I would appreciate it if more discussion in this subject would end...I think I have posted all what I have about this topic.
Fair enough. Just always pay attention to your morality (Im not suggesting you are not. but i'm afraid you might start to forget it)
Know when your compassion, kindness, bravery etc begin to fade and prevent your heart from turning into stone4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Ever-aware
4613 Surely, those who said, "Our Lord is God," then they lead a righteous life, there is no fear for them, nor will they grieve.