Resources about abrogation?
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I have to admit 2106 is a bit disquieting to me too.
Why would God edit his perfect holy book as it were? Ah well.
As I understood it, there was a Qur'an in Heaven (could just be another Sunni corruption) yet it was as I was told in the beginning.
If this is accurate, then why would God send the revelation worded differently thereby giving another instruction only to edit it later with the actual verse in this presumed heavily version?
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peace sister aynur,
Firstly, I must say well done on your patience and persistance in discussing with your husband and wider family. This is a beautiful thing, and I hope your husband is appreciative of this, even if he disagrees with you sometimes. D
As far as I'm aware, there are various interpretations, even amongst traditional "scholars" about abrogation. Some say none at all, some say quite a lot, some say only a little, and they offer their interpretations/evidence etc. It might be handy to get the most solid example(s) of abrogation according to traditionals as you can, to see how solid it actually is. From my studies, they are all nonsense.
Also, the commonly given meaning of "abrogation" for "nsakh" is suspect, see previous forum discussion or study the occurrences yourself
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm (See Nun-Siin-Kha)"The oak tree is mighty, yet it will be destroyed by a mighty wind because it resists the elements; the bamboo bends with the wind, and by bending, survives."
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MIL & hubby are insisting on the abrogation concept, where different verses in the Qur'an cancel other ones.
Are there any books that argue against this idea?
Please help.Selam Aynur,
You can buy the thematic Qur'an tafsir by Suleyman Ates; http//www.suleyman-ates.com/kuran_ans_.html
I know he does not believe in "abrogation" and many such nonsense. It costs about $ 585 and consists of 30 volumes. This is exactly what your husband and MIL need lol
I had actually made a thread about it;
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599348.0peace
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I have to admit 2106 is a bit disquieting to me too.
Why would God edit his perfect holy book as it were? Ah well.
As I understood it, there was a Qur'an in Heaven (could just be another Sunni corruption) yet it was as I was told in the beginning.
If this is accurate, then why would God send the revelation worded differently thereby giving another instruction only to edit it later with the actual verse in this presumed heavily version?
Because you read the verse with the traditional interpretation in your head.
First it's about the quraan v previous books (read the context please).
Secondly the verb "nasakha" means "to copy". This meaning is repeated in other verses in different verb forms 7154; 2252; 4529 all meaning copies, to copy, to write, produce a copy...
Even in today's language, no one would understand this verb as meaning to abrogate. It is a false meaning meant to open a door to "abrogate" the quraan. -
Even in today's language, no one would understand this verb as meaning to abrogate. It is a false meaning meant to open a door to "abrogate" the quraan.
Absolutely wrong information without any evidenc.
If "nasakha" means to copy ,it also means to abrogate.- ( 1 / 25956)
to abrogate, invalidate, nullify, annul, abolish, cancel, negate, repeal, revoke, rescind
How will you translate this "naskh " in this verse.
2252
Regards
- ( 1 / 25956)
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2252
And your point? Why would God "delete" what Satans does? Does He delete what we do or this is a "special" treat for Satan?
Use your brains more when reading anything, specially the quraan.And when you quote the dictionary, bring examples form the dictionary other than their distorted meanings of the quraan, for example from the original meaning of the word...
Oh I forgot. The dictionary does bring this example, which, fortunately, you are embarrassed to bringTranslation
"And the Arabs say the sun "nasakhat" the shadow, meaning it removed the shadow brickwall
I wont be surprised if you say and is this wrong? confused
Because like you, the dictionaries may push their agendas even if they bring such stupid examples.
And since we are on it, tell us honestly what "your" dictionary says about ? I hope it is notAs for the Path in the hereafter, it's a bridge that extends above hell, sharper than the edge of a sword and finer than a hair on which people pass and only those going to paradise will pass according to their deeds...
If you are as your avatar says (seeker of knowledge), take this advice the quraan explains itself; dictionaries are written by sunnis.
Oops... -
And your point? Why would God "delete" what Satans does? Does He delete what we do or this is a "special" treat for Satan?
Use your brains more when reading anything, specially the quraan.And when you quote the dictionary, bring examples form the dictionary other than their distorted meanings of the quraan, for example from the original meaning of the word...
Oh I forgot. The dictionary does bring this example, which, fortunately, you are embarrassed to bringTranslation
"And the Arabs say the sun "nasakhat" the shadow, meaning it removed the shadow brickwall
I wont be surprised if you say and is this wrong? confused
Because like you, the dictionaries may push their agendas even if they bring such stupid examples.
And since we are on it, tell us honestly what "your" dictionary says about ? I hope it is notAs for the Path in the hereafter, it's a bridge that extends above hell, sharper than the edge of a sword and finer than a hair on which people pass and only those going to paradise will pass according to their deeds...
If you are as your avatar says (seeker of knowledge), take this advice the quraan explains itself; dictionaries are written by sunnis.
Oops...See you had did not have courage to translate the whole verse above.
Removal ,deletion ,abrogation are one and the same thing.These are not copying.If you are as your avatar says (seeker of knowledge), take this advice the quraan explains itself; dictionaries are written by sunnis.
Do not camouflage your ignorance behind the Quran.
Oops...
Whether oops or aaps ,please give full translation of above verse.And show us how you fit the meaning of "copying" in this verse.Come on my sister.
Regards
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2106 is not about the quran...
Look at 2105
Neither do those who have rejected from among the people of the scripture, nor from among those who have set-up partners, wish that any good comes down to you (this you is in plural, so it's talking to US) from your Lord. But God chooses with His mercy whom He wishes; and from God is the greatest favour.
2106 is about God's signs, not 'verses' being sent down. See also 4153 and 5120-21.
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2106 is not about the quran...
Look at 2105
Neither do those who have rejected from among the people of the scripture, nor from among those who have set-up partners, wish that any good comes down to you (this you is in plural, so it's talking to US) from your Lord. But God chooses with His mercy whom He wishes; and from God is the greatest favour.
2106 is about God's signs, not 'verses' being sent down. See also 4153 and 5120-21.
Brother this verse is not under discussion .
The verse is ;2252
Please translate this whole verse.
Regards
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Removal ,deletion ,abrogation are one and the same thing.These are not copying.
God does know the word (delete, remove) by the way!
1712; 4224; 1339
and it's not (nasakha).
Just from the verse itself, you can see it cannot mean (abrogate)None of Our revelations do We copy or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things.
What We copy ------->We bring similar
What We make forgotten -------> We bring betterWhat verses are "abrogated"? How come He "abrogates" verses which are still in the qur'aan and does not tell us which one they are?
What verses are made forgotten?See you had did not have courage to translate the whole verse above
Why should I? The verse and chapter number are there. Anyone can read the translation and replace "abrogate" with "copy" and see which version makes sense, read with the verse that follows
2253
That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far from the Truth.
If He is going to delete what Satan throws, how is it going to be used as a trial for people? -
I have to admit 2106 is a bit disquieting to me too.
Why would God edit his perfect holy book as it were? Ah well.
As I understood it, there was a Qur'an in Heaven (could just be another Sunni corruption) yet it was as I was told in the beginning.
If this is accurate, then why would God send the revelation worded differently thereby giving another instruction only to edit it later with the actual verse in this presumed heavily version?
It sounds to me like it's talking about the life and death of the messengers and the believers. Hence it is not that the verses of the message change, it is that different ears are listening to it. The message is in the ears of the beholder.
So which verses can be abrogated? The one's the last fellow heard wrongly.
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Peace Samia
I am not in favor of abrogation. All of my Concern is what you said wrongly Claimed that this word nasakha does not mean "abrogation/deletion " at all.
Please translate the whole verse why are you Reluctant. Where is your Meaning of Copying.
2252
May I ask you the reason to translation of this whole verse ??????????
Regards
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Peace Samia
I am not in favor of abrogation. All of my Concern is what you said wrongly Claimed that this word nasakha does not mean "abrogation/deletion " at all.
If you believe that the verse says God abrogates His verses, how come you are not in favour of abrogation?
May I ask you the reason to translation of this whole verse ?
/quote]
May I ask you the reason why you want me to translate this whole verse? -
If you believe that the verse says God abrogates His verses, how come you are not in favour of abrogation?
May I ask you the reason to translation of this whole verse ?
/quote]
May I ask you the reason why you want me to translate this whole verse?In future please do not make such baseless claims about the language. Is this not better first to learn it and then comment ?
Regards -
Are you seeking knowledge or a quarrel?
Were you even able to debunk any of my "baseless claims"?No quarrel at all.
You placed absolutely a wrong statement.I countered it. Your reluctance to translate 2252 is an absolute proof that you could not support your claim per Quran.
So simple.
Regards -
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.48.gif
Those amongst the People of the Book and Pagans/Idolaters who have deliberately refused to accept {what has since been sent} do not love/desire it,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.105.gif
that /further Soo'rat/Aaya'at of Book/something from blessing be sent upon you people from your Sustainer Lord.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.106a.gif
We do not change the place of ayah or leave guarding it until We bring there/that place one better suited there than her or similar to that. are indeed a fabricator"-Read 16101]http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20A5.gif
And when We change the place/location of an Ayah with the place/location of another Ayah,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20A6.gif
and Allah is well aware of what He has gradually revealed; , on replacement of location of an Ayah with the location of another Ayah they say alleging "You are indeed a fabricator".
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/Temp%2001%2016.101b.gif
No, you have not substituted the locations/fabricated, the fact of the matter is that most of them do not know . -
No quarrel at all.
You placed absolutely a wrong statement.I countered it. Your reluctance to translate 2252 is an absolute proof that you could not support your claim per Quran.
So simple.
RegardsWas my statement dependent on a translation or on the original Arabic version?
What nonsense! Why do you want translations when you believe that qur'aan is untranslatable?
Members kept asking you for translations and you refuse. Why should I grant you what you refuse to offer? -
Because he loves the crack.
??? crack what?
