Translations - Another dangerous form of Hadith
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Is such negativity and slander necessary, brother? -\
Rashad Khalifa simply interpreted this passage as referring to Allah's "representative", just like you've interpreted the passage to refer to a successor. Is this a crime? I'm not defending Rashad Khalifa, I'm simply saying that maybe you should try to understand his views (and why he believed in them) before you judge him, especially considering the fact that he's no longer here to defend himself.
How did he accuse Allah and the Qur'aan of "lying"? Can you cite some examples of where he made this claim? Please quote it and, if you can, post the link.
Did not Quran (Allah ) say that Quran is Preserved ?
RK said ,"no it was adulterated for 1400 years" .
Is this not a blame on the Quran ?Allah said "No one can change my words"
RK said ,"No, Code nineteen can change it and he threw out two verses".
Is this not a blame on the Quran ??
Is the Quran Lying and RK (LIar of the Century ) Correct ?
Regards -
Did not Quran (Allah ) say that Quran is Preserved ?
RK said ,"no it was adulterated for 1400 years" .
Is this not a blame on the Quran ?No. God says that the Qur'aan is preserved in a "master tablet". Obviously this isn't talking about the Qur'aan that we have today, since where would this master tablet be?
Allah said "No one can change my words"
RK said ,"No, Code nineteen can change it and he threw out two verses".
Is this not a blame on the Quran ??
Is the Quran Lying and RK (LIar of the Century ) Correct ?This is metaphorical. It's saying that nobody can change the commands of God, since He executes them. It can't be talking about His words, as in the scripture, since the scriptures also confirm that the Torah is the word of God. And 80% of Muslims today would adamantly declare that the Torah has been altered. Isn't this still changing the words of God, even if they're not in the Qur'aan? What makes them any less hypocritical, as liars, than you claim Rashad Khalifa is? If he is a liar, then obviously they are too, right?
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Peace
The issue of the added two verses puzzles me...
not because there is some maths gizmo trick that proves it should not be there,
but there is indeed hadiths that say it has been added by scribes without witness, and that is very controversial...
even for those who do not accept most hadith as I do;
why did this hadith come about?
not only it involves Ali (Allah blesses his soul), but curiously enough, no Muslim Sect bothered to implement the finding of the hadith, and thus remove the two ayahs?
also what did the Scribes think the gain would be by adding the two ayahs? if they were indeed added at the end of Ch 9?No. God says that the Qur'aan is preserved in a "master tablet". Obviously this isn't talking about the Qur'aan that we have today, since where would this master tablet be?
This is metaphorical. It's saying that nobody can change the commands of God, since He executes them. It can't be talking about His words, as in the scripture, since the scriptures also confirm that the Torah is the word of God. And 80% of Muslims today would adamantly declare that the Torah has been altered. Isn't this still changing the words of God, even if they're not in the Qur'aan? What makes them any less hypocritical, as liars, than you claim Rashad Khalifa is? If he is a liar, then obviously they are too, right?
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No. God says that the Qur'aan is preserved in a "master tablet". Obviously this isn't talking about the Qur'aan that we have today, since where would this master tablet be?
This is metaphorical. It's saying that nobody can change the commands of God, since He executes them. It can't be talking about His words, as in the scripture, since the scriptures also confirm that the Torah is the word of God. And 80% of Muslims today would adamantly declare that the Torah has been altered. Isn't this still changing the words of God, even if they're not in the Qur'aan? What makes them any less hypocritical, as liars, than you claim Rashad Khalifa is? If he is a liar, then obviously they are too, right?
Mashallah ! Typical Rk thinking.
Preserved in Master Tablets???. May I ask you ,is there any RK who can try to change the Quran.Even Satan has no access there.There is no need to say that it is preserved in master Tablets.
This can only be said for the place where there are Likihood of Satans and RKs who can try to change it.Use common sense.As far as Your metaphorical theory is concerned. It is part of that mania which is deluded with the concept whatever you mind says ,declare it metaphorical.
For muslimsRK and his followers may say that this verse is not part of the Quran. It was added later.After all there must be some way to make the integrity of the Quran doubtful.
They can also say that It is metaphorical.------> metaphorical -------> metaphoricalIt is the reason Quran said
(50)
BTW Where is Allah's REPRESENTATIVE as per RK ? I am looking for it.
Note Your Quran whose author is RK might not be protected but Our Quran whose author is Allah is fully Protected Alhamdulillahi
Regards
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Peace Idriss.III,
The issue of the added two verses puzzles me...
not because there is some maths gizmo trick that proves it should not be there,
but there is indeed hadiths that say it has been added by scribes without witness, and that is very controversial...
even for those who do not accept most hadith as I do;
why did this hadith come about?
not only it involves Ali (Allah blesses his soul), but curiously enough, no Muslim Sect bothered to implement the finding of the hadith, and thus remove the two ayahs?
also what did the Scribes think the gain would be by adding the two ayahs? if they were indeed added at the end of Ch 9?I think that you have it the other way around. Khalifa removed the 2 verses as a result of the Hadiths. He merely used numerology to justify this preconception from Hadiths. Had the Hadiths mentioned different verses then he would have applied his numerology to these.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace and blessings Ayman,
Allow me to wonder, 9128-129 seem two pretty inconspicuous verses.
Surely adding these does not corrupt the Message either way.
Corruption worth talking about would be if ayahs were indeed removed from the original, and accepting that
this did not happen is a leap of faith, this is where Belief comes into force, because after all we need to take
Allah's word for it.
I do because of accepting the Message as really being the Word of Allah, and hopefully being a Believer, but how about others?
Another intriguing thing about belief is when you look at other faiths, for instance many Christians and Jews
will swear that their parts of the Bible constitute the unadulterated and infallible words of God despite the contradictions therein
(we know where these come from).
That explains how the Muslims who cling to Hadith justify their Beliefs too.. and it is very hard to shift such mind frames...
What do you think?Peace Idriss.III,
I think that you have it the other way around. Khalifa removed the 2 verses as a result of the Hadiths. He merely used numerology to justify this preconception from Hadiths. Had the Hadiths mentioned different verses then he would have applied his numerology to these.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
Khalifa removed the 2 verses as a result of the Hadiths. He merely used numerology to justify this preconception from Hadiths. Had the Hadiths mentioned different verses then he would have applied his numerology to these.
Is there any proof for this? OF COURSE NOT! Rashad Khalifa openly rejected the hadiyths, even writing a book on why everyone should reject them.
"Quran, Hadith, and Islam" (http//www.submission.org/qhi.html)
Also, he plainly stated in his research that he believed in the corruption (fabrication) of those verses, based on his mathematical calculations, BEFORE he realized the hadiyth concerning them. What you're stating is speculation, not fact.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace
Rashad Khalifa if he were a Messenger as he claimed he were, would not have needed to do research to prove anything.
As a Messenger, Allah would have told him what to say, what to do, and how and where.
Messengers are not Scholars, they do not conduct research, they are Leaders of men, by Action, Character, and Purpose...
It is only when they have finished their task, that they retire and can do what Allah pleases for them to do
(example Shuaib visited by Moses in Midian, or Joseph after his task of bringing his family was complete).
Now there is a big if about the possibility of a Messenger coming after Muhammad, I believe there will be one, but not everyone agrees...
but there is an ayah in the Quran that RK used that makes that clear I think..., but he used it for himself...
RK's interpretation of the Quran is one of the first that tried not to rely on Hadith, but in my view, ruling out all Hadith is a mistake...
of course the legal aspect of hadith leaves a lot to be desired, and only the Quran should be taken into account, as this is obvious if the Quran is read with an open heart...
There are some things we are missing that happened between Ali and the other Sahabas, and with the destruction of Baghdad by the Mongols, and the burning of all the Muslim literature of the time, that information might be completely lost, or maybe it isn't, maybe there are some people who bothered to write about the first civil war and what it was all about.
The answer to that will give us many clues about who really Muhammad was, where he came from, to whom was he preaching, who opposed him, and most importantly who helped him...
Another source of information that is neglected is the Ottoman Arabicised Script Literature (I wonder how many still bother to look into these), there might be some interesting writings that were neglected there that will shed some light on early Islamic history salvaged from Uammayads/Abassids dynasties. -
Peace Ayman,
Is there any proof for this? OF COURSE NOT! Rashad Khalifa openly rejected the hadiyths, even writing a book on why everyone should reject them.
"Quran, Hadith, and Islam" (http//www.submission.org/qhi.html)
Also, he plainly stated in his research that he believed in the corruption (fabrication) of those verses, based on his mathematical calculations, BEFORE he realized the hadiyth concerning them. What you're stating is speculation, not fact.
Peace,
Ahmad
Contradiction is the outstanding features of LIARS .This is what RK did.
May I ask you what was his source of sequence /numbering of Quranic Chapters i.e Suras???
Regards -
Peace Idriss,
Rashad Khalifa if he were a Messenger as he claimed he were, would not have needed to do research to prove anything.
As a Messenger, Allah would have told him what to say, what to do, and how and where.
Messengers are not Scholars, they do not conduct research, they are Leaders of men, by Action, Character, and Purpose...This is totally false. There is no evidence that the messengers of God don't have to study and do research to reach certain conclusions. I think that everything happens in a certain order, and knowledge doesn't just pop into someone's head; they have to actually think and use reason, to analyze things for themselves. In fact, the Qur'aan instructs them, and everyone else, to study the world around them, so that they (and we) can find the truth of God's word... This is my viewpoint...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Contradiction is the outstanding features of LIARS .This is what RK did.
May I ask you what was his source of sequence /numbering of Quranic Chapters i.e Suras???Don't be a hypocrite. What's your reason for focusing your discussion of translations on Rashad Khalifa? Was he the only person who wrote a Qur'aanic translation?! I sure don't see you criticizing Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Shakir, Muhammad Ali, Hilali/Khan, Muhammad Asad, or any of the other many translator.Why are you focusing all your attention on Dr. Khalifa? This is called IDOLIZATION...
For the record, Rashad Khalifa numbered the chapters of the Qur'aan the same way they're numbered in the traditional Islaamic texts ("surah 1 al faatiha" to "surah 114 al naas"... What's your point?
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Don't be a hypocrite. What's your reason for focusing your discussion of translations on Rashad Khalifa? Was he the only person who wrote a Qur'aanic translation?! I sure don't see you criticizing Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Shakir, Muhammad Ali, Hilali/Khan, Muhammad Asad, or any of the other many translator.Why are you focusing all your attention on Dr. Khalifa? This is called IDOLIZATION...
For the record, Rashad Khalifa numbered the chapters of the Qur'aan the same way they're numbered in the traditional Islaamic texts ("surah 1 al faatiha" to "surah 114 al naas"... What's your point?
RK is fulfilling Satanic Agenda.He put the blame of Lying on Allah as well as on the Quran. He brought Code 19 at par with Allah. Allah revealed the Quran Code 19 changed it. A Clear Shirk.
Rest of Translater are ignorant but non of them was intentionally fulfilling Satanic Agenda.
Rk was against Hadith. Why did he believe in them in "sequence of Revelation of Chapters". Another Contradiciton which is a clear sign of being a "LIAR".
(click on the sura's English name to
jump to a particular sura)Initialed Sura
No. Order
Of
Revelation Verses English Arabic
1 5 7 The Key Al-Fatehah- 2 87 286 The Heifer Al-Baqarah
- 3 89 200 The Amramites Ali-'Imran
4 92 176 Women Al-Nesa'
5 112 120 The Feast Al-Ma'edah
6 55 165 Livestock Al-An'am - 7 39 206 The Purgatory Al-A'araf
8 88 75 Spoils of War Al-Anfal
9 113 127 Ultimatum Bara'ah - 10 51 109 Jonah Younus
- 11 52 123 Hood Hud
- 12 53 111 Joseph Yousuf
- 13 96 43 The Thunder Al-Ra`ad
- 14 72 52 Abraham Ibrahim
- 15 54 99 Al-Hijr Valley Al-Hijr
16 70 128 The Bee Al-Nahl
17 50 111 The Children of Israel Bani Israel
18 69 110 The Cave Al-Kahf - 19 44 98 Mary Maryam
- 20 45 135 Ta-Ha Ta Ha
21 73 112 The Prophets Al-Anbya'
22 103 78 The Pilgrimage Al-Hajj
23 74 118 The Believers Al-Mu'minun
24 102 64 Light Al-Noor
25 42 77 The Statute Book Al-Furqan - 26 47 227 The Poets Al-Shu`ara'
- 27 48 93 The Ant Al-Naml
- 28 49 88 History Al-Qasas
- 29 85 69 The Spider Al-'Ankaboot
- 30 84 60 The Romans Al-Room
- 31 57 34 Luqman Luqman
- 32 75 30 The Prostration Al-Sajdah
33 90 73 The Parties Al-Ahzab
34 58 54 Sheba Saba'
35 43 45 Initiator Faater - 36 41 83 Ya-Sin Ya Sin
37 56 182 The Arrangers Al-Saffat - 38 38 88 Sad Saad
39 59 75 The Throngs Al-Zumar - 40 60 85 Forgiver Ghafer
- 41 61 54 Detailed Fussilat
- 42 62 53 Consultation Al-Shoora
- 43 63 89 Ornaments Al-Zukhruf
- 44 64 59 Smoke Al-Dukhan
- 45 65 37 Kneeling Al-Jatheyah
- 46 66 35 The Dunes Al-Ahqaf
47 95 38 Muhammad Muhammad
48 111 29 Victory Al-Fatt-h
49 106 18 The Walls Al-Hujurat - 50 34 45 Q Qaf
51 67 60 Drivers of the Winds Al-Dhareyat
52 76 49 Mount Sinai Al-Toor
53 23 62 The Stars Al-Najm
54 37 55 The Moon Al-Qamar
55 97 78 Most Gracious Al-Rahmaan
56 46 96 The Inevitable Al-Waaqe'ah
57 94 29 Iron Al-Hadeed
58 105 22 The Debate Al-Mujaadalah
59 101 24 Exodus Al-Hashr
60 91 13 The Test Al-Mumtahanah
61 109 14 The Column Al-Suff
62 110 11 Friday Al-Jumu`ah
63 104 11 The Hypocrites Al-Munaafeqoon
64 108 18 Mutual Blaming Al-Taghaabun
65 99 12 Divorce Al-Talaaq
66 107 12 Prohibition Al-Tahreem
67 77 30 Kingship Al-Mulk - 68 2 52 The Pen Al-Qalam
69 78 52 Incontestable Al-Haaqqah
70 79 44 The Heights Al-Ma'aarej
71 71 28 Noah Noah
72 40 28 The Jinn Al-Jinn
73 3 20 Cloacked Al-Muzzammil
74 4 56 The Hidden secret Al-Muddath-thir
75 31 40 Resurrection Al-Qeyaamah
76 98 31 The Human Al-Insaan
77 33 50 Dispatched Al-Mursalaat
78 80 40 The Event Al-Naba'
79 81 46 The Snatchers Al-Naazeaat 80 24 42 He FrownedAbasa
81 7 29 The Rolling Al-Takweer
82 82 19 The Shattering Al-Infitaar
83 86 36 The Cheaters Al-Mutaffifeen
84 83 25 The Rupture Al-Inshiqaaq
85 27 22 The Galaxies Al-Burooj
86 36 17 The Bright Star Al-Taareq
87 8 19 The Most High Al-Aalaa 88 68 26 The Overwhelming Al-Ghaasheyah 89 10 30 The Dawn Al-Fajr 90 35 20 The Town Al-Balad 91 26 15 The Sun Al-Shams 92 9 21 The Night Al-Layl 93 11 11 The Forenoon Al-Duhaa 94 12 8 Cooling the Temper Al-Sharrhh 95 28 8 The Fig Al-Teen 96 1 19 The Embryo Al-Alaq
97 25 5 Destiny Al-Qadr
98 100 8 Proof Al-Bayyinah
99 93 8 The Quake Al-Zalzalah
100 14 11 The Gallopers Al-Aadeyaat 101 30 11 The Shocker Al-Qaareah
102 16 8 Hoarding Al-Takaathur
103 13 3 The Afternoon Al-Asr 104 32 9 The Backbiter Al-Humazah 105 19 5 The Elephant Al-Feel 106 29 4 Quraish Tribe Quraish 107 17 7 Charity Al-Maaoon
108 15 3 Bounty Al-Kawthar
109 18 6 The Disbelievers Al-Kaaferoon
110 114 3 Triumph Al-Naasr
111 6 5 Thorns Al-Masad
112 22 4 Absoluteness Al-Ikhlaas
113 20 5 The Daybreak Al-Falaq
114 21 6 People Al-Naas
Source http//www.rashadkhalifa.org/translation.html
Middle Figures are Order of Revelation. What was source of RK ?
Regards
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Peace
... and you are perfectly entitled to your viewpoint
but as far as I know, those before Muhammad did not have access to the Quran, which was revealed to Muhammad and those after him...
so unless the Taurah or Injeel say so... and regardless, Allah will not allow Messengers to err while delivering a Message, which is not the case of someone who does research as by definition research uses trial and error...Peace Idriss,
This is totally false. There is no evidence that the messengers of God don't have to study and do research to reach certain conclusions. I think that everything happens in a certain order, and knowledge doesn't just pop into someone's head; they have to actually think and use reason, to analyze things for themselves. In fact, the Qur'aan instructs them, and everyone else, to study the world around them, so that they (and we) can find the truth of God's word... This is my viewpoint...
Peace,
Ahmad
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RK is fulfilling Satanic Agenda.He put the blame of Lying on Allah as well as on the Quran. He brought Code 19 at par with Allah. Allah revealed the Quran Code 19 changed it. A Clear Shirk.
Rest of Translater are ignorant but non of them was intentionally fulfilling Satanic Agenda.
Rk was against Hadith. Why did he believe in them in "sequence of Revelation of Chapters". Another Contradiciton which is a clear sign of being a "LIAR".
Before I address your fallacy which I've highlighted I have to make it clear i'm not part of RK's group called submitters and neither do I agree with everything he states and neither do I judge him.
Now to your statement about translators not having intentions of fulfilling satanic agenda. How do you know this?? Intentions are only known by the person doing the act and The God.
Also your 2nd statement about RK contradicting himself which you say is a clear sign of being a liar. Again this comes down to intention because you could genuinely be ignorant whereas a liar knows with intent he/she is lying. It seems from your post you have alot of hatred for RK which you haven't justified with reason which I felt obliged to point out to you. I hope you take it on board constructively.
PEACE
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Also your 2nd statement about RK contradicting himself which you say is a clear sign of being a liar. Again this comes down to intention because you could genuinely be ignorant whereas a liar knows with intent he/she is lying. It seems from your post you have alot of hatred for RK which you haven't justified with reason which I felt obliged to point out to you. I hope you take it on board constructively.
PEACE
Hatred for him is genuine brother. Because he
-Puts blame on Allah that he Lied
-Puts blame on the Quran that it lied
-Puts Code 19 superior to AllahAll this he did in the name of islam and Quran.
Why not to hate such a LIAR
Regards -
Hatred for him is genuine brother. Because he
-Puts blame on Allah that he Lied
-Puts blame on the Quran that it lied
-Puts Code 19 superior to AllahAll this he did in the name of islam and Quran.
Why not to hate such a LIAR
RegardsI came from submitters site to free-minds many years ago and from his work that I've read RK does not state what you state. Maybe thats how you interpret his behaviour/literature which does not necessarily mean you are right in what you say unless you can bring a direct clear statement supporting your accusations. Actions are judged by intentions and hence its between him and The God on what he did in my opinion.
PEACE
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I came from submitters site to free-minds many years ago and from his work that I've read RK does not state what you state. Maybe thats how you interpret his behaviour/literature which does not necessarily mean you are right in what you say unless you can bring a direct clear statement supporting your accusations. Actions are judged by intentions and hence its between him and The God on what he did in my opinion.
PEACE
Allah said - We have preserved the Quran
RK said .No it had been adulterated for 1400 years
Did Allah Lie ? Or Quran Lied ?
Allah said
No one can change His wordsRk Said
No ,code 19 can change the Quran.
Which is superior Allah or Code 19 ?
Use your common sense.
Regards -
I came from submitters site to free-minds many years ago and from his work that I've read RK does not state what you state. Maybe thats how you interpret his behaviour/literature which does not necessarily mean you are right in what you say unless you can bring a direct clear statement supporting your accusations. Actions are judged by intentions and hence its between him and The God on what he did in my opinion.
PEACE
Selam Prince
Well said.
Peace
Hope
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Allah said - We have preserved the Quran
RK said .No it had been adulterated for 1400 years
Did Allah Lie ? Or Quran Lied ?
Allah said
No one can change His wordsDude, what are you talking about? Where does the Qur'aan say that nobody can change it?! Stop making things up to mislead others... Yes, Rashad Khalifa said people have been misled in their interpretation of Islaam for around 1300 years. And...? This means absolutely nothing. It's already PROVEN that people have been misled for nearly 1300 years, and this is evident by the numerous inconsistent hadiyths throughout the Islaamic world. People have been practicing the wrong thing for centuries. If anything, Rashad Khalifa is the only person who actually tried to prove that the authentic Qur'aan has been preserved for 1400 years, unlike people like you, who choose to rely on blind faith, thinking that "the Qur'aan is preserved because it says it's preserved". This is BLIND BELIEF, and, according to the scripture, it's a sign of rejection and disbelief.
Rk Said
No ,code 19 can change the Quran.
Which is superior Allah or Code 19 ?
Use your common sense.Please quote Rashad Khalifa on saying that "code 19 can change the Qur'aan". If you can't, then you're a LIAR and you have no credibility. You have already proven yourself to be a falsifier plenty of times on here, and you are only adding to this negative image. Please stop your foolishness...