Rashad Khalifa's Quran translation
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Peace,
Of course I am sure The Message is based on the Arabic Quran as its ultimate reference, however it was very clear to me that The Message was based heavily on RK's translation. In fact, I would be very interested to hear anyone who read the early version who disagrees with this. Feel free to personal message some members, e.g. the other proof reader, bro Aaron.
Interesting conjecture...As the lead translator, I know firsthand how this project began and progressed...Yet, seems you want to imply that you know better!
Besides, it's not just me, see an early review on amazon.com
Quote from 13/10/06
This is another version of rashed khalifa if I was in charge of the followers of brother rashed I would take legal action against these guys- verbatim copied from rasheds final testament
What rubbish!
Here is what your "expert witness" had to say on the Amazon review of The Natural Republic
By Afg #1 "Omi" (Guelph, ON CAN) - See all my reviews
This is another version of rashed khalifa if I was in charge of the followers of brother rashed I would take legal action against these guys- verbatim, copied from rasheds final testament
- not good at all to make you a better person, forget about being a good muslim
3.very misleading without any proof .don't waste your money I have read all the available trans best I recomand Yusif Ali***** or Allamah Nooruddin****, others good for only a particular group of people not all nations. These two you can gave to any muslim or non muslim with out thinking of offending/misleading them.if you have this version read recomandation you'll see it clearly...
Seems like our friend does not even know the contents on the books he is attacking (pushing his sunni translators in the process).
Of course that is a possibility, but are you implying bro Ayman said anywhere my understanding is "riddled with the errors"? Evidence please.
No, I was suggesting the thread where Ayman attacked the undertstanding of people as being wrong (on the Kabaa discussion) where a person may think he knows what the correct understanding/interpretation should be, but he/she could be absolutely wrong.
My point being, if you dislike The Message because it does not conform to your understanding of what should be, that is your absolute right...Just stop attacking the work every which chance you get (if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing).
4148 God does not love that any negative sayings be publicized, except if one is wronged. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
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peace Layth,
Interesting conjecture...As the lead translator, I know firsthand how this project began and progressed...Yet, seems you want to imply that you know better!
Often, when a person is too close to something, they dont see the full picture. As I said, no-one should take our word for it, if they wish to verify, simply download the early version, compare, and see for themselves.
What rubbish!
Here is what your "expert witness" had to say on the Amazon review of The Natural Republic
Seems like our friend does not even know the contents on the books he is attacking (pushing his sunni translators in the process).Seems like he/she did a cut&paste to me, and I think its obvious which book he/she is referring to originally.
No, I was suggesting the thread where Ayman attacked the undertstanding of people as being wrong (on the Kabaa discussion) where a person may think he knows what the correct understanding/interpretation should be, but he/she could be absolutely wrong.
Thanks for clarifying bro Ayman's insight on how a person might think he is right but they might be wrong.
My point being, if you dislike The Message because it does not conform to your understanding of what should be, that is your absolute right...
Just stop attacking the work every which chance you get (if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing).Yes, just like how Abraham attacked the idols and smashed them.
4148 God does not love that any negative sayings be publicized, except if one is wronged. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
The verse you quote is about a personal injustice. I prefer the verses about speaking out against incorrect information etc.
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Yes, just like how Abraham attacked the idols and smashed them.
I am sorry you feel that way. Rather than be supportive of a major project to spread the word of God, you are only spewing venom and hatred, being a hinderer of the message rather than being a neutral, or even, God forbid, a supporter!
3318 God already knows which of you are the hinderers, and those who say to their brothers ?Come and stay with us.? Rarely do they
mobilize for battle.The verse you quote is about a personal injustice. I prefer the verses about speaking out against incorrect information etc.
No worries, I honestly did not expect you to take heed from any verse quoted since your behaviour outlines who you are and what you are about.
3222 And who is more wicked than he who is reminded of the revelations of his Lord, then he turns away from them? We will exact a punishment from the criminals.
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For the record, I was there when Layth made the decision to embark on the translation that went on to become "The Message". It was born out of frustration of the fact that RK's translation wasn't good enough and that people kept using it as they had preferred it to the older translations on the market at the time.
I remember Layth translating chapter by chapter and I did do proofreading on some of the early chapters he translated.
How anyone can say that it was based on RK's work is beyond me.
The reviews on amazon are not a great reference point as many people automatically love to tar you/us/anyone with the brush of Rashad Khalifa if we claim to follow the Quran alone and do not follow hadith. it is a classic way to defame people rather than to deal with us intellectually or using the Quran.
Any time someone says they follow the Quran alone or do not follow hadith, most people will associate those people with the "submitters" or "rashad Khalifa".
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Peace
But it is numbered into Chapters/Surahs and Verses/Ayahs put into specific order.
This is the end product we got, and that is what it says of Itself (as per Allah), is it not enough?
Or do we need also a code 19 on top of that? There is no mention of a code number being used to protect it, 19 or other...If influence of RK was not dominant what was there to suggest "Qur'aan is a numerically structured book-839,20"?
What relation does this have with the Grand Qur'aan to infer "Qur'aan is a numerically structured book" except that RK is whispering.
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peace Layth,
Rather than be supportive of a major project to spread the word of God, you are only spewing venom and hatred, being a hinderer of the message rather than being a neutral, or even, God forbid, a supporter!
So spewing venom and hatred is saying things like "MG translation was based on RK" and providing a way for people to verify/reject my statement?
So I have not been supportive of this project? Tell the forum Layth
who proof read half of it for you when you completed the first draft?
who spent many hours creating an easier to use html version for people to use offline?
who provided numerous corrections for you over several years? (for reference please see this the original thread)
who responded and provided feedback on layout and design of the book?
etc.It seems you have taken offence to the words "based on". Since this term is not defined, we can ask some clarifying questions, so we can define it better
which English translation do you consider the early version of the Free-Minds/MG translation to be most like?
(whatever answer you give, we can all examine it to see it stands)Very simple question bro Layth, let us know your answer.
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Haroon, thanks for the input. However, for the record, when I referred to "Aaron", I did not mean you. Myself and bro Aaron proofread more than you, as we were the primaries.
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Peace ;
This is the Satanic Methodology which the Translaters adopt to convey their own satanic ideas in the name of the Quran.
Regards
Dude you sounds like a right-wing Christians.. rotfl
Whenever they see everything that's not 'correct' in their view, blame Satan! Devil!Salam / Peace
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Dude you sounds like a right-wing Christians.. rotfl
Whenever they see everything that's not 'correct' in their view, blame Satan! Devil!Salam / Peace
If someone says that
Quran Lies
Allah lies
Code 19 is superior to AllahAre these acts Satanic or Divine /
Regards
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Peace Bros
looks like satan the cursed is tickling your egos a bit,
just shrug him off like Allah showed us, his scheming is weak to the believers...
it will only be hard for the next 100 years for us, promise...peace Layth,
So spewing venom and hatred is saying things like "MG translation was based on RK" and providing a way for people to verify/reject my statement?
So I have not been supportive of this project? Tell the forum Layth
who proof read half of it for you when you completed the first draft?
who spent many hours creating an easier to use html version for people to use offline?
who provided numerous corrections for you over several years? (for reference please see this the original thread)
who responded and provided feedback on layout and design of the book?
etc.It seems you have taken offence to the words "based on". Since this term is not defined, we can ask some clarifying questions, so we can define it better
which English translation do you consider the early version of the Free-Minds/MG translation to be most like?
(whatever answer you give, we can all examine it to see it stands)Very simple question bro Layth, let us know your answer.
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Haroon, thanks for the input. However, for the record, when I referred to "Aaron", I did not mean you. Myself and bro Aaron proofread more than you, as we were the primaries.
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Peace newform,
In terms of readability and fluidity of language, then I am in total agreement, for I haven't come across a single translator who is as acute in capturing the "gist" of a verse, nor as deft as fixating that "gist" into words.
I agree with the concerns of some that the translation may, at times, drift from faithfulness to the actual text, but overall, in my view, his seamless naturalisation into English overshadows this point.
I would readily propagate his translation.
Peace on the messengers.
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Further to my note above, I agree that there are striking similarities between the earlier editions of the MG translation and that of RK's. However, we cannot determine intent.
I would readily propagate Rashad Khalifa's translation, the Monotheist Group translation, the Reformist translation, or even some other non-partisan translation; we're all working towards the same Ultimate End.
I refuse to believe, even for a minute, that Wakas is trying to detract from anyone's work, I believe he is only speaking his mind. At the same time, however, despite some striking similarities, I don't believe we have sufficient evidence to accuse the MG translation of plagiarism.
We're one hand.
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Peace
But it is numbered into Chapters/Surahs and Verses/Ayahs put into specific order.
This is the end product we got, and that is what it says of Itself (as per Allah), is it not enough?
Or do we need also a code 19 on top of that? There is no mention of a code number being used to protect it, 19 or other...Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 055216 PM
If influence of RK was not dominant what was there to suggest "Qur'aan is a numerically structured book-839,20"?What relation does this have with the Grand Qur'aan to infer "Qur'aan is a numerically structured book" except that RK is whispering.
Books are numbered into chapters, paragraphs, page numbers etc but never some one has said that those books are numerically structured. Let the translator give logic/explanation of that conclusion about Grand Qur'aan.
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Peace
It is more complicated here with RK.
In his case it was a catch-22 situation.
I personally could have accepted code 19 if it were not that it it does not comply
with what I would recognize as strong digital signatures.
The attempt of RK to justify his credentials by claiming to be a Messenger made me switch off completely...
Code 19 is weak.
If there is another more credible numbering system, I am all ears...Now referring to the arrangement of the Quran, I was speaking of the fact that the Revelations' chronology did not come in the same
order as the Book was put together, and that maybe is what "kitaab marqoom" means, but Allah knows...Peace
But it is numbered into Chapters/Surahs and Verses/Ayahs put into specific order.
This is the end product we got, and that is what it says of Itself (as per Allah), is it not enough?
Or do we need also a code 19 on top of that? There is no mention of a code number being used to protect it, 19 or other...Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 055216 PM
If influence of RK was not dominant what was there to suggest "Qur'aan is a numerically structured book-839,20"?What relation does this have with the Grand Qur'aan to infer "Qur'aan is a numerically structured book" except that RK is whispering.
Books are numbered into chapters, paragraphs, page numbers etc but never some one has said that those books are numerically structured. Let the translator give logic/explanation of that conclusion about Grand Qur'aan.
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uq, thanks for the input, however for clarity, I did not accuse anyone of plagiarism.
In any case, Layth and I have discussed this issue, and whilst we may have disagreements on small things here and there, we are firmly united in direction.
And hold fast, all together, unto the rope of God, and do not draw apart from one another...
