Unneccessary & unscientific concept of breast feeding "sisters" in the Quran
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This is about the women whom a man is prohibited to wed in the Quran. I have taken the translation from the free minds site itself
Quran 423
Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.However, marrying a woman suckled by the same wet nurse has no undesirable side effects, it doesn't lead to anything undesirable. However, marrying one's first cousin(which unfortunately hasn't been prohibited at all in the Quran) is dangerous as i has a greater chance of producing kids with genetic illnesses. Milk sisters is harmless, it could've easily been allowed.
Fatima married her first cousin, Ali. Inbreeding has a higher chance of causing genetic abnormalities, especially consistent inbreeding. By allowing Fatima to marry Ali, Mohammed has made it seem perfectly fine (possibly even encouraged) first cousin marriage.
Problems in Saudi due to inbreeding-
http//query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=980DE0DF1F3DF932A35756C0A9659C8B63Problems in Pakistan
http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4442010.stmIt is ironic that first cousin marriages are ok yet those who have been suckled by the same person are not allowed to marry,in Saudi. This is wreaking havoc in Saudi marriages. Back when I was still Muslim, I had travelled to Saudi, & seen an unnatural number of abnormal kids in some homes.
Saudis, meanwhile are busy in forcing milk siblings to divorce, rather than doing the needful & banning cousin marriages, especially repeated cousin marriages
http//www.liveleak.com/view?i=c15_1237750181&c=1
I can't really blame the poor brainwashed folks!
As supposedly "Allah" said
Forbidden for you are ... and your sisters from suckling
Pity Allah didn't mention the ill effect of repeated cousin couples! rotfl
How do you know it doesn't have any undesired side effects??
Isn't it possible that just because it might not make sense to us that there is still wisdom behind it??
Such as breastmilk changing something in our bodies to actually making those who are breastfed by the same women closely related.http//ecochildsplay.blogspot.com/2009/09/stem-cells-discovered-in-breast-milk.html
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Where has Allah suggested or instructed that you should marry cousins only? All women/men other than those specifically prohibited are available to each man and woman to marry.
Nowhere,but as I showed, He hasn't prohibited it either.Naturally, Muslims will not shy away from such marriages as Allah prohibited all sorts of marriages but condoned those!
Also, there is Fatima & Ali's marriage as a precedent.
The reason cousin marriages happen is that, getting you son or daughter married off is often a tricky proposition for many. You are either sending your daughter into a new home, or else welcoming a stranger into your house as a daughter in law.
You aren't sure of that person's temperament, food habits etc. You aren't even sure how well you'll get along with their relatives.
With cousin marriages not being prohibited, but even milk siblings being prohibited, & with the Fatima Ali example, obviously Muslims will think marrying their child to his\her first cousin is a safer bet than marrying unrelated women\men, who's family is not known to them & who maybe badly behaved,violent etc.
Thus, it continues.
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Muslim societies are not any example of islam being applied, specially Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. In my country we do not have "forced" cousins marriage, and it's definitely not the first choice. It's traditions, just as you think that tradition is part of islam.
Dear Samia,
I do not need or want to study Arabic-it has little use in the world, thanks to Islam. I would love to study Mandarin, indeed schools in UK have many Mandarin classes, as China is a rising superpower. I would love to study Japanese, Korean etc-of course European languages like German, Frence etc-as these people contribute so much to the world by way of science, technology, knowledge etc.
One of the greatest misfortunes of oil less non Arab Muslim nations is that they had the misfortune of being influenced by Arabia millennia ago, rather than by the Christian West or Confucian China-which has produced successful societies in Europe, East Asia, Brazil etc, it was the Arabian Muslim influence which contributed to the poor state of their societies, & now they study Arabic which is useless-they might've better utilized their time studying German, Japanese, etc-that would help them get gainful employment.
I have read enough translations, including the one from Free Minds, it says milk siblings.
Of course,like many unpleasant stuff, Muslims might now like to change this, like they changed "beat" to "leave".
In my country we do not have "forced" cousins marriage, and it's definitely not the first choice.
Really? Thats' a blatant lie, as you probably are aware.
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7237663.stm
Pakistani Muslims are 13 times more likely to have genetic birth defects compared to the general population.Of course, mentioning this makes Muslims furious! ;D
A third of Pakistanis in Britain are married to their first cousins, there are multiple examples of Muslim forced marriages in Britain, cousins have been brought into Britain from Pakistan by the convinient way of mariage.
I agree that cousin marriage isn't very common in Britain as a whole, but thats due to the huge non Muslim population, which doesn't do such stuff often.
With Muslims in Britain living off welfare & having huge families,& the politically correct multi culturalism, cousin marriages will increase with the rise of the Muslim population.
Oh btw, cousin marriage isn't simply "tradition". Fatima married Ali, & the Quran, which can ban irrelevant stuff like milk siblings doesn't ban this vitally important thing.
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With respects to you Fawzia,
i do believe in ther quran that is its a good book to follow but has been grossly mistranslated
the ayah you presented
Quran 423
Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, AND YOUR SISTERS BY WAY OF YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.It hasn't been "grossly mistranslated" at all, its simply been translated rightly. Now Muslims, embarrasseed by the unpleasant stuff, are trying to "mistranslate" it, in an effort to salvage their faith, & trick a few new gullibles into it.
I have used the translation from the free minds site itself, which has already done some of the changing, like changing beat to "leave", however, they too stick to "milk sisters." ;D
Also, Saudi Arabia forcibly divorces such couples-surely they read the Quran in their mother tongue.
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How do you know it doesn't have any undesired side effects??
Isn't it possible that just because it might not make sense to us that there is still wisdom behind it??
Such as breastmilk changing something in our bodies to actually making those who are breastfed by the same women closely related.http//ecochildsplay.blogspot.com/2009/09/stem-cells-discovered-in-breast-milk.html
So what does stem cells prove? Don't try to divert the discussion please.
Till date, this has been seen as having no ill effect.
However, cousin marriages do have plenty of undesirable ill effects, this has been amply proved, especially repeated cousin marriages, something Muslims regularly indulge in.
If the Quran truly had wishdom, it would've banned epeated cousin marriages.
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So what does stem cells prove? Don't try to divert the discussion please.
Till date, this has been seen as having no ill effect.
However, cousin marriages do have plenty of undesirable ill effects, this has been amply proved, especially repeated cousin marriages, something Muslims regularly indulge in.
If the Quran truly had wishdom, it would've banned epeated cousin marriages.
Peace,
with all due respect, I am not trying to "divert the discussion"My point is, there may be something in breastmilk that specifically makes people who ingest it related.
Do you know everything? How do you know that's not true??I didn't say cousin marriages are good.
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My point is, there may be something in breastmilk that specifically makes people who ingest it related.
I don't think there is anything there to make people related. It is a good question that Fawzia has brought up. My question is, is it the very act of having been breastfed by the same nurse-mother, or is it a question of fostering? It seems to me that nurse-mothers at that time raised those children until they were 5 or 6 years old, but I could be completely wrong about that.
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Forbidden for you are ... and your sisters from suckling
Pity Allah didn't mention the ill effect of repeated cousin couples! rotfl
Let's see.. you start off your topic about unnecessary and unscientific concept. Who said Quran is a book of science?
Then you go on about ill effects of repeat cousin couples. so what topic do you want to discuss?
did God say it has ill effects? Did Quran say that? Did you ever think outside of the box and think of psychological effects? or did that not come into the equation?
In regards to cousin couples marriage is your free choice. i have friends and family who married cousins and they're capable full minded people.
why pick on muslims? it's easy to fault on others aint it. Einstein married his cousin, queen Victoria married her cousin, Charles Darwin married his cousin..
If people wanna marry their cousins so be it. everything in life can be seen as a harm, there are more harmful things than people marrying cousins.
Peace.
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Nowhere,but as I showed, He hasn't prohibited it either.Naturally, Muslims will not shy away from such marriages as Allah prohibited all sorts of marriages but condoned those!
Also, there is Fatima & Ali's marriage as a precedent.
The reason cousin marriages happen is that, getting you son or daughter married off is often a tricky proposition for many. You are either sending your daughter into a new home, or else welcoming a stranger into your house as a daughter in law.
You aren't sure of that person's temperament, food habits etc. You aren't even sure how well you'll get along with their relatives.
With cousin marriages not being prohibited, but even milk siblings being prohibited, & with the Fatima Ali example, obviously Muslims will think marrying their child to his\her first cousin is a safer bet than marrying unrelated women\men, who's family is not known to them & who maybe badly behaved,violent etc.
Thus, it continues.
It is but revolving around one thing. My son is married to a woman not from our family/clan and about whom we did not know anything earlier; and my daughter is married to a man not related to our family/tribe. I am married with my cousin. Couples not related to each other may also have retarded children. Should we stop marrying only because that there is some possibility of having a retarded child? Yet we are not aware of all the facts causing some problem in the child birth.
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Should we stop marrying only because that there is some possibility of having a retarded child? Yet we are not aware of all the facts causing some problem in the child birth.
there is an increased risk, so it's safer not to. but of course, it should be left to the discretion of each couple.
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It is but revolving around one thing. My son is married to a woman not from our family/clan and about whom we did not know anything earlier; and my daughter is married to a man not related to our family/tribe. I am married with my cousin. Couples not related to each other may also have retarded children. Should we stop marrying only because that there is some possibility of having a retarded child? Yet we are not aware of all the facts causing some problem in the child birth.
Hi Mazhar,
Sure, it is revolving around mainly cousin marriage. Yes, its true that unrelated couples can also have retarded children.
However, the chances of related couples producing retarded children are significantly higher,especially if there's consistent inbreeding over generations-this has been concluded in study after study.
We shouldn't stop marrying at all, if there're possibilities of producing retarded kids,however, we should stop indulging in behaviors which greatly increases the chances of producing retarded kids right?
Take something like women's death in childbirth, or complications during or after childbirth-all sorts of women in less developed nations die in childbirth, yet study after study shows that women who've been "circumcised" ie genitally mutilated especially by the dangerous & extreme methods of genital mutilation in Sub Saharan African nations have a far greater probability of dying in childbirth or suffering pain & ill health, compared to women with intact genitalia or even mild emthods of circumcision.
We should likewise avoid behavior which can increase the chances of birth defects.
The first link is about cousin couples
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_couple
This is about the royal family of the Hapsburgs, whose health was ruined by repeated cousin marriages.
http//www.independent.co.uk/news/science/revealed-the-inbreeding-that-ruined-the-hapsburgs-1668857.html
The dangers of breeding with extremely close relatives was something most of the world'c cultures managed to figure out on their own-which is why marrying one's brother or sister was forbidden by nearly all cultures. Otherwise why would people stop at first cousins & not get their daughters married off to their own sons? ;D
Sending one's daughter off into another family where the groom & his mother might ill treat her, daughter taking away part of the patrimony into another family, the risks of getting an evil daughter in law who might abuse you in old age-can all be avoided by sibling marriages. However, because of the tremendous risks of genetic defects in kids, nearly all cultures have managed to have a taboo on such behavior.
Repeated first cousins produce too produce similar genetic illnesses. In cultures where first cousin marriages are condoned(they're not banned in the Quran, but harmless "milk sisters" are banned), because of all the perceived benefits of such unions(ie less risk of kids going into a non related & potentially dangerous tribe, property kept in the family etc), there's cousin marriage in generation after generation, & with each generation of such behavior, risks of retarded kids increase.First generation itself is harmful & should be slightly discouraged, however, with centuries or millennia of such behavior, the risks multiply greatly.
In Saudi I met a husband & wife, who were chidren of double first cousins, ie their mom's were sisters & dads were brothers. Their entire generations were inbred. The woman said that this was a very "safe" thing to do, it'd result in good,loving in laws & fewer risks of divorces! D
Maybe thats' why places like Saudi are so f***ed up inspite of oil! !
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there is an increased risk, so it's safer not to. but of course, it should be left to the discretion of each couple.
For the first generation there's only an increased risk, unfortunately such behavior is indulged in over multiple generations, the risks are enormous-far, far higher than any potential benefit.
The Quran doesn't even ban repeated cousin marriages, which are far riskier than any imaginary milk sibling problems.
Also, repeated double first cousin(ie both sets of parents are siblings) marriages multiply risks as well.
In the mid east, Pakistan etc, cousin marriages are generally something which isn't confined to one generation, its a practice indulged in over generations & centuries, unfortunately this isn't prohibited or even discouraged in the Quran.
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it's not necessarily an increased risk.
You seem so bias
An alternate argument
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7404730.stm
Everyone has risks your cousin or the stranger next door it all depends on the GENES you carry. For someone who apparently is big on science you should know that. The stranger next door could have more issues than your own cousin and cause more ?risks? than your cousin.
You?re being way too judgemental.
Why is it unfortunate that the Quran doesn?t prohibit it? No one is forcing you to marry your cousin.
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it's not necessarily an increased risk.
You seem so bias
An alternate argument
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7404730.stm
Everyone has risks your cousin or the stranger next door it all depends on the GENES you carry. For someone who apparently is big on science you should know that. The stranger next door could have more issues than your own cousin and cause more ?risks? than your cousin.
You?re being way too judgemental.
Why is it unfortunate that the Quran doesn?t prohibit it? No one is forcing you to marry your cousin.
Unfortunately, even your link amply shows that risks are greatly increased, especially amongst the Pakistani British community, on which extensive research has been carried out.
The Born in Bradford study, tracking 10,000 children from birth through their first two decades of life aims to rectify this.
Around 50% of children born in Bradford are to Pakistani parents.
Dr Peter Corry, a consultant paediatrician at Bradford Teaching Hospitals says they have identified almost 150 of these rare genetic conditions in the city - much higher than would be expected.
And data collected by the British Paediatric Surveillance Unit has shown since 1997 there have been 902 British children born with neurodegenerative conditions and 8% of those were in Bradford which only has 1% of the population.
He too advocates better genetic testing for families affected.
"Different populations have different patterns of genetic conditions.
"In Bradford, these conditions are much more prevalent than you would expect but they're still pretty rare.
"I would guess there is a genetic or metabolic test for about half the conditions and each time in Bradford a new gene is discovered there are two or three families who can be offered testing," he added.
The Born in Bradford study is collecting information on the family tree of those taking part but will also look at environmental issues which may have an impact on health.
"Of the first 1,100 pregnant Pakistani women recruited, 70% are from consanguineous marriages," he said.
"When I came to Bradford 20 years ago most Pakistani parents didn't understand when you were talking about genetics but now we're seeing young Pakistani professionals with a much greater knowledge about genetic conditions."
Dr Corry says the numbers may be small but the genetic disorders can be devastating for the families involved.
In one extended family he works with six children who have the same genetic condition which means they are unlikely to live beyond their teens.
But he says on the positive side, affected families who work with the genetic services in Bradford are helping to advance doctors knowledge of such conditions which leads to new genetic tests and potential treatments.
This also proves that either Samia was genuinely unaware of the extent of Muslim cousin marriage customs in Pakistan, or she was purposely being misleading when she claimed that such stuff don't happen in UK! ;D
I feel sorry for the poor Brits, these folks immigrate there, live off welfare, have huge families with plenty of disabled kids, & often plan terrorist attacks! Thank God the Brits also have good non Muslim immigrants like the non Muslim Indians & the Chinese, with higher than national incomes! yay
Yes, the study says that risks increase only a little in the 1st generation, unfortunately cousin marriages isn't a single generation thing for most Muslim couples, their parents, grandparents & so on are often cousins as well.
For someone who apparently is big on science you should know that. The stranger next door could have more issues than your own cousin and cause more ?risks? than your cousin.
Well, Sarah, even from your study we see how greatly risks increase in Bradford with its huge Muslim community & cousin marriages.
Here,
Around 50% of children born in Bradford are to Pakistani parents.
Dr Peter Corry, a consultant paediatrician at Bradford Teaching Hospitals says they have identified almost 150 of these rare genetic conditions in the city - much higher than would be expected.
And data collected by the British Paediatric Surveillance Unit has shown since 1997 there have been 902 British children born with neurodegenerative conditions and 8% of those were in Bradford which only has 1% of the population.
50% of kids in Bradford are to Pakistani parents, obviously not all parents are first cousins, but even many who aren't are the children or grandchildren of first cousins, & Bradford with its 1% of nation's population has *% of all kids with neurodegenerative conditions.
You?re being way too judgemental.
Not at all, when a book claims to be the last guidance from the Creator of the Universe, it considers it neccessary to ban marriages to milk sisters & brothers whom you might've never met,yet fails to so much as discourage, let alone ban repeated cousin marriages over many generations, I have every right to be judgmental. Such lofty claims as the Quran makes better be supported by such qualities. yes
Why is it unfortunate that the Quran doesn?t prohibit it? No one is forcing you to marry your cousin.
It is unfortunate simply because, as even your link shows, those 8% neurological disorders have unfortunately happened in Bradford, where half of all births are to Pakistani parents, who're often cousin couples or descended from such cousin couples. Those poor kids will suffer for life, as will their parents, the Brits will have to bear the additional trouble of their medical needs, they already have stuff like jihadi attacks from these folks to bother about! >
Also, as I have shown in other links, there's enormous amount of increased chances of birth defects with cousin marriages-1st time, as your link showed, is only slight increase, over generations, risks increase greatly.
No one is forcing cousin marriages, but with no one outlawing it either, it often becomes a public health concern. In communities were such marriages aren't taboo, they're often the preferred mode of marriage, as people feel that since the would be bride\groom of their child & his parents are known to them from childhood, it would be potentially less risky than sending their kids' off into a potentially abusive or violent family, it will ensure a loving husband, kind mom in law, dutiful daughter in law etc & make it easier to get along as all the habits of that family will be known etc. Not forbidding or discouraging it in the Quran means that gullible & ignorant Muslims(even Quranists) would believe that the potential benefits I cited make it the ideal match.
Again quoting from your link
When I came to Bradford 20 years ago most Pakistani parents didn't understand when you were talking about genetics but now we're seeing young Pakistani professionals with a much greater knowledge about genetic conditions."
So devout Pakistani Muslims, ignorant of these risks would indulge in such practices, as they have for centuries. Now the West, as always is helping Muslims become aware of these health issues,but again, its a case of the West or other non Muslims helping Muslims advance in health, rather than anything Muslims are learning & contributing via Quran! peace
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Peace all
Fawzia
Reading your statment below it seems you belong to the British nationalist party.(I feel sorry for the poor Brits, these folks immigrate there, live off welfare, have huge families with plenty of disabled kids, & often plan terrorist attacks! Thank God the Brits also have good non Muslim immigrants like the non Muslim Indians & the Chinese, with higher than national incomes!]
We Brits have been living of othere countries for such a long time so what if they come and live of us.
live long and prosper
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Peace all
Fawzia
Reading your statment below it seems you belong to the British nationalist party.(I feel sorry for the poor Brits, these folks immigrate there, live off welfare, have huge families with plenty of disabled kids, & often plan terrorist attacks! Thank God the Brits also have good non Muslim immigrants like the non Muslim Indians & the Chinese, with higher than national incomes!]
We Brits have been living of othere countries for such a long time so what if they come and live of us.
live long and prosper
Muslims too have lived off plenty of other nations for a long time-far longer than any Brits have, Turkey was a big colonizing power & colonized nations like Greece, Arab Muslims have lived off my birthplace Iran, throwing off its Zoroastrian civilization from the 7th century, all Muslims nations in the mid-East, North Africa, Pakistan were formed after abrupt invasions by Muslims, & Muslims took great stuff from all these nations too! Saudi has lived off all these nations which right after Muhammad's death conquered many nations-& the conversions which followed after conquest , it forget welcoming citizens like Zoroastrian Iranians or Hindu Indians as permanent citizens, it doesn't even let them construct temples! ;D
Never been colonized by the West Afghanistan had rulers like Mahmud of Ghazni who plundered Indian temples & carried off vast wealth, slaves to Afghanistan, the condition of the Hindko(non Muslim minorities) in Afghanistan is appalling currently.
I don't see colonizing power Turkey welcoming their former colony Greece's immigrants-rather Turks live in many European nations today! D
Anyway, I am not a BNP meber, but I do feel Muslims aren't entitled to anymore bad behavior than any other communities-if the non Muslim Indians & Chinese can avoid planning terror attacks & achieve financial success, so should Muslims! non Muslim Indians were no less colonized than Muslims, rather they were twice colonized-first by the Muslims themselves, then by the Brits!
Btw, I would've felt sorry for the Turks too had their former colony Greece's people settled there, planned attacks, lived off welfare etc! Or for Saudi Arabia if say Iranian Zoroastrians, who suffered massively due to Arabia's invasions, went there & plotted to kill Saudis! )
As it happens, Muslim Turkey has no need for my sympathies-they don't let former colony Greece's peoples in, they have also consistently denied their Armenian Holocaust, forget welcoming millions of terrorist planning Armenians! ;D
Muslims know how to protect their interests all right & also get the best out of others tolerance! peace
I repeat, I am no BNP supporter, however, I do dislike Islam & I feel sorry for may of its victims from Iranian Zoroastrians to others.
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Muslims too have lived off plenty of other nations for a long time-far longer than any Brits have, Turkey was a big colonizing power & colonized nations like Greece, Arab Muslims have lived off my birthplace Iran, throwing off its Zoroastrian civilization from the 7th century, all Muslims nations in the mid-East, North Africa, Pakistan were formed after abrupt invasions by Muslims, & Muslims took great stuff from all these nations too! Saudi has lived off all these nations which right after Muhammad's death conquered many nations-& the conversions which followed after conquest , it forget welcoming citizens like Zoroastrian Iranians or Hindu Indians as permanent citizens, it doesn't even let them construct temples! ;D
Never been colonized by the West Afghanistan had rulers like Mahmud of Ghazni who plundered Indian temples & carried off vast wealth, slaves to Afghanistan, the condition of the Hindko(non Muslim minorities) in Afghanistan is appalling currently.
I don't see colonizing power Turkey welcoming their former colony Greece's immigrants-rather Turks live in many European nations today! D
Anyway, I am not a BNP meber, but I do feel Muslims aren't entitled to anymore bad behavior than any other communities-if the non Muslim Indians & Chinese can avoid planning terror attacks & achieve financial success, so should Muslims! non Muslim Indians were no less colonized than Muslims, rather they were twice colonized-first by the Muslims themselves, then by the Brits!
Btw, I would've felt sorry for the Turks too had their former colony Greece's people settled there, planned attacks, lived off welfare etc! Or for Saudi Arabia if say Iranian Zoroastrians, who suffered massively due to Arabia's invasions, went there & plotted to kill Saudis!  
As it happens, Muslim Turkey has no need for my sympathies-they don't let former colony Greece's peoples in, they have also consistently denied their Armenian Holocaust, forget welcoming millions of terrorist planning Armenians! ;D
Muslims know how to protect their interests all right & also get the best out of others tolerance! peace
I repeat, I am no BNP supporter, however, I do dislike Islam & I feel sorry for may of its victims from Iranian Zoroastrians to others.
Wow, you sound like an ignorant European racist.. sheer ignorance and bias.
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I don't think there is anything there to make people related. It is a good question that Fawzia has brought up. My question is, is it the very act of having been breastfed by the same nurse-mother, or is it a question of fostering? It seems to me that nurse-mothers at that time raised those children until they were 5 or 6 years old, but I could be completely wrong about that.
Maybe not. hmm
But maybe there is.
In this article http//www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20081102-16879.html
It says "a new mother?s mammary glands take over from the placenta to provide the development guidance to ensure a baby?s genetic destiny is fulfilled."The way it used to be, that the nurse-mothers raised the children ... makes sense too. But now, there are milk banks - where people donate their milk... and then you don't even know where the milk came from.
I'm just saying that just because science doesn't know/hasn't discovered something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
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I feel sorry for the poor Brits, these folks immigrate there, live off welfare, have huge families with plenty of disabled kids, & often plan terrorist attacks! ( Thank God the Brits also have good non Muslim immigrants like the non Muslim Indians & the Chinese, with higher than national incomes! yay
Wow Fauzia,
If there is one thing I remember from my aunts and uncles who worked in the middle East (we are south asians) is that the typical middle eastern is extremely racist against the 'brown-skinned' people. Did it ever occur to you that there are south asian muslims in the UK who are pressing for a secular democracy against some of these 'crazy' people.
http//www.spittoon.org/archives/3366
How can you paint an entire race/nation/ ethnic group as backward? It is nothing short of racist. There are Bangladeshi immigrants in the UK who are Muslim, many are traditional muslims, but they have nothing to do with terrorism. One of the victims of the subway bombings was a Bangladeshi girl in her early 20s whereas the bombers were ethnically Pakistani or west Indian.
A lot of darker skinned people face severe discrimination with respect to jobs and housing in the UK, but you haven't even considered that.