Hello Folks, Fawzia here! I was a Quranist for 10 months.
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welcome Fawzia,
I think the core problem is your view of the terms "Islam" and "Muslim", and you thinking that they are proper nouns. Also, looking at Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. for a representation of islam is not a good start.
See
http//www.free-minds.org/peacefulness
http//www.free-minds.org/node/10
http//islamicreform.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=53 -
The worshipers of the Most Gracious are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace. 2563
Thank you so much for that verse, caveman doctor, I was looking for it for a long time. peace angel group
@ abdulquran, one takes things lying down when one doesn't provide a refutation, but the refutation itself can be said in a polite manner. You can be gentle in demeanor, but firm in belief
Peace
Sarah
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welcome Fawzia,
I think the core problem is your view of the terms "Islam" and "Muslim", and you thinking that they are proper nouns. Also, looking at Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. for a representation of islam is not a good start.
See
http//www.free-minds.org/peacefulness
http//www.free-minds.org/node/10
http//islamicreform.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=53exactly
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That's not true, let me remind you of this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599050.msg224172#msg224172
You didn't come up with a good reason as to why this version should even be in print, and you even suggested that it's only printed in some small enclave of North Africa (not true, since the one I saw at home was bought in Saudi Arabia by my dad's friend.). You were being rude to me, even though I was never rude to you. I was nice to you, but I did not get nice words back.
Sorry, that's not rude. Thats just not taking the usual sceptics line for granted, lol. If you think I was rude, kindly point it out and if I agree, I will apologise.
As for Warsh, you, your dad, your dad's friend, his friend, his friend's friend and etc ad nauseum is not evidence for me. I checked with the saudis myself on this and other than for qiraat studies (very minor branch in universities) they don't even allow this to be recited in masajid. We can open up that subject again in another thread if you want.
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The worshipers of the Most Gracious are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace. 2563
Actually I got to differ from you on that. Firstly Fawzia is not simply jaahil as per 25/63. (jahiloon are people who are superficial and unable to penetrate the core of things). Fawzia is a racist who also came to incite. Her tone betrays that hostility and I invoke 4/148 as proof of my policies for her
Allah loveth not that evil should be noised abroad in public speech, EXCEPT WHERE INJUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE; for Allah is He who heareth and knoweth all things
So while I respect your comment, I'm sorry but I see this very differently.
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Fawzia's slight arrogance and tone reflects her insecurity and her inner fear from the unknown.
It is fine.
I have seen worse.
But you will notice that Muslims who leave Islam become very hostile and even worse than the people who are born non-muslims. This could be true to all religions.
The worst atheists and critics of Christianity for example are ex-Christians.
They simply want to feel good about their choice and to look down on people who didn't adopt their rebellion.
Actually some of us did the same to the Sunnis.
Aren't humans a bunch of predictable losers??
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As for Warsh, you, your dad, your dad's friend, his friend, his friend's friend and etc ad nauseum is not evidence for me. I checked with the saudis myself on this and other than for qiraat studies (very minor branch in universities) they don't even allow this to be recited in masajid. We can open up that subject again in another thread if you want.
i was referring to the whole thread, it seems to me that you are the only one who doesn't see how rude you come across in your posts.
Who told you that the Warsh version is not recited in the mosque? It is, because it is considered to be an authentic reading of the Quran, even though it is a variant.
Explain to me why this variant is even in print today, if it's not acceptable.
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i was referring to the whole thread, it seems to me that you are the only one who doesn't see how rude you come across in your posts.
Who told you that the Warsh version is not recited in the mosque? It is, because it is considered to be an authentic reading of the Quran, even though it is a variant.
Explain to me why this variant is even in print today, if it's not acceptable.
you can look away from evidence, and pretend it isn't evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that it is in PRINT.
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???
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i was referring to the whole thread, it seems to me that you are the only one who doesn't see how rude you come across in your posts.
I?m the ONLY one? So you?ve asked the entire Free-minds community? Wow, you must?ve done a lot of pm work. Either that you consider your opinions as the democratic consensus?
Who told you that the Warsh version is not recited in the mosque? It is, because it is considered to be an authentic reading of the Quran, even though it is a variant.
Oh, it was a friend of a friend of a donkey of a friend of a friend of a friend. But that?s evidence according to you. Unless of course you meant, YOUR friends (and parents) only? I dunno, since you consider yourself the democractic consensus then anything's possible.
Explain to me why this variant is even in print today, if it's not acceptable.
Because Sunnis accept it as a variant thanks to the hadith of 7 ahruf. However, it is not the dominant ?rescension?, not even close. Even your much sought after ?which quran? article author admits that.
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you can look away from evidence, and pretend it isn't evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that it is in PRINT.
YES ! Exactly. That's the intelligence of the God of the Quran. The minute someone modifies the text and PRINTS some copies, automatically his 'protection' of the Quran is nullified. Some 'knower of the known and unseen' He is, huh ?
Take RK's 'sans 9/128-129' as proof of corruption as well. You may as well use it. Also, since there are other books which QUOTE the Quran, that's like printing the Quran without the rest of the Quran so THAT'S proof too, lol.
Jeez.....
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could you have said this differently?
No I can't cuz it was a talking donkey. However, that doesn't diminish the validity of my evidence because in the mythical world of the internet, your dad's friend (and for that matter, you) are as mythical as my friend of a friend's talking donkey. Nothing but typeface on screen.
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Because Sunnis accept it as a variant thanks to the hadith of 7 ahruf. However, it is not the dominant ?rescension?, not even close. Even your much sought after ?which quran? article author admits that.
provide me with relevant articles and hadiths. How am I to know what you are talking about if all you doubt is shout and make wild accusations about me 'pm'ing everyone?
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could you have said this differently?
don't worry, donkey is very innocent and cute animal
http//www.starstore.com/acatalog/Shrek_2_Donkey_poster.jpg
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That's not true, let me remind you of this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599050.msg224172#msg224172
You didn't come up with a good reason as to why this version should even be in print, and you even suggested that it's only printed in some small enclave of North Africa (not true, since the one I saw at home was bought in Saudi Arabia by my dad's friend.).
How far has this Warsh variant travelled, it's clearly not just in North Africa. Explain to me why it is not justified, considering how old it is, and the fact that they didn't have a computerised system then to record things in an error free manner.
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No I can't cuz it was a talking donkey. However, that doesn't diminish the validity of my evidence because in the mythical world of the internet, your dad's friend (and for that matter, you) are as mythical as my friend of a friend's talking donkey. Nothing but typeface on screen.
where is your evidence?
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provide me with relevant articles and hadiths. How am I to know what you are talking about if all you doubt is shout and make wild accusations about me 'pm'ing everyone?
Here's a good article on it. It's by a Fawzia but he quotes Abu Ammar Yasir Qadhi's book 'introduction to the sciences of the Quran' which is an essential book on the subject
http//www.answering-islam.org/PQ/notrevealed.htm#top
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where is your evidence?
It's a little difficult to bring my observations to you, isnt it? Apprently, you're in the USA which im not.