All religions are okay?
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Different sects define these things differently but all are okay so long as they don't lose sight of the foundation envisaged which is the same for all.
- Peaceful,
- Truthful,
- Kind.
of course the way you have defined the ayah above is your religion peace
Yeah, Thanks God that is my way For you your way, and for us, ours.
Now, give us your definition of "Peaceful" and "Kind", so we may discuss about it.
And "Truthful" as well, since apparently we might have very different idea about it.
And also abdalquran made a critical point. What's your take on it?
In addition, can one stay being Peaceful, Truthful and Kind, all throughout his life following such system of lies?
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3 things
- Why do you leave the word 'nasara' as Christians? Why not analyse it and perhaps you won't think it's christians either?
The following ayah's make it clearer that it is the christians;
002.062
YUSUFALI Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Nasaara and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.930
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Nasaara call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them how they are deluded away from the Truth- What makes you think this means ALL nasara? Have a look at 9/30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them how they are deluded away from the Truth
Does this sound people who have no 'fear' nor 'grief' ?
Allah cursed the unbelievers of old , not the christians (who are believers) who are being admonished by an example.
- On the question God's having a 'son'. Have a look at this
They say "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious
For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.So I really cannot understand how you're saying it's ONLY about love, peace, kindness or whatever. I'm sure God won't judge someone unless he consciously rejects the one God but ideologies which preach that God has a 'son' is definitely kufr and not 'ok'. I await your evidence to the contrary.
God won't judge a person to hell simply because he likes to pinch womens behinds when he can ( )- he will be judged according to his overall conduct in life.
peace
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The following ayah's make it clearer that it is the christians;
Ok for arguments sake, lets take that its Christians. My point still remains. 2/62 and 9/30 shows that 'christians' are not a single group.
Allah cursed the unbelievers of old , not the christians (who are believers) who are being admonished by an example.
Wow, so God cursed unbelievers OF THE PAST but is ok with people called 'Christians' doing the EXACT same thing? 9/30 clearly says they COPY the saying of the UNBELIEVERS of old yet they're let off? Come on...
Lets not forget that passage either please, Simple. 19/88-91. That's clear proof of the severity of this act.
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Peace,
Simple, can you please analyze each word in the original Arabic script and present to us your result? If you would not or could not that's OK. As you might already be very aware that it is really easy to derive incorrect meanings from translations.
God won't judge a person to hell simply because he likes to pinch womens behinds when he can ( )- he will be judged according to his overall conduct in life.
By the way, i'm surprised at how simple (as in simply insensible) your judgements 'on behalf of God' are. You used "he likes to pinch women behind when he can" and "according to his overall conduct in his life". If you used "he used to like to pinch women behind and then repented" that would be more in harmony with the "according to his overall conduct in his life" part. You see, repentance is a very often repeated theme in the Quran. God loves the repenting (returning) people.
And of course God knows best. Please refrain from assumptions about God, we have very limited knowledge.
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Ok for arguments sake, lets take that its Christians. My point still remains. 2/62 and 9/30 shows that 'christians' are not a single group.
Wow, so God cursed unbelievers OF THE PAST but is ok with people called 'Christians' doing the EXACT same thing? 9/30 clearly says they COPY the saying of the UNBELIEVERS of old yet they're let off? Come on...
Lets not forget that passage either please, Simple. 19/88-91. That's clear proof of the severity of this act.
Christians are certainly NOT a single group. The beliefs of the Southern Baptists and the beliefs of God-alone Christians are as far apart as Roman Catholics are from fundamental Judaism.
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Ok for arguments sake, lets take that its Christians. My point still remains. 2/62 and 9/30 shows that 'christians' are not a single group.
peace
They may not be a single group but for the majority of them their overal teachings are basically the same.
Wow, so God cursed unbelievers OF THE PAST but is ok with people called 'Christians' doing the EXACT same thing? 9/30 clearly says they COPY the saying of the UNBELIEVERS of old yet they're let off? Come on...
They were cursed for being unbeliever's not for that act, and the unbelievers are cursed throughout the quran-check it.
hypno
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Peace,
Simple, can you please analyze each word in the original Arabic script and present to us your result? If you would not or could not that's OK. As you might already be very aware that it is really easy to derive incorrect meanings from translations.
Okay -one a these days.
peace
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Christians are certainly NOT a single group. The beliefs of the Southern Baptists and the beliefs of God-alone Christians are as far apart as Roman Catholics are from fundamental Judaism.
Hi Rev,
Well certainly they have called him a son of God , or God since before the quran .
peace
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They were cursed for being unbeliever's not for that act, and the unbelievers are cursed throughout the quran-check it.
Simple, have you actually read 9/30. Let me translate it for you step by step
Waqalati alyahoodu And says the 'jews' (for arguments sake, lets say its jews)
AAuzayrun ibnu Allahi Uzair is the son of God
waqalati alnnasara and said the 'christians' (for arguments sake, lets say its christians)
almaseehu ibnu Allahi the messiah is son of God
thalika qawluhum bi-afwahihim That is their saying by their mouths
yudahi-oona they imitate
qawla allatheena kafaroo sayings of those who REJECT
min qablu from before
qatalahumu Allahu anna yu/fakoona Allah cursed them for their lying.So why is 'those who reject' mentioned IN THIS CONTEXT and why is IMITATION mentioned here? Can you please read the ayah in full, Simple?
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Hi Rev,
Well certainly they have called him a son of God , or God since before the quran .
peace
Yes, ever since the council of Nicea about 1500 years ago when the Roman Catholic church decided to "rewrite" everything. But not all Christians believe that Jesus was the "only" son of God but believe we are all children of God. Many Christians now are trying to get back to the beliefs of the early church with no trinity, no divinity of Jesus etc. Only a very few believe that Jesus was a god, they are in contravention of the first commandment of course.
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Simple, have you actually read 9/30. Let me translate it for you step by step
Waqalati alyahoodu And says the 'jews' (for arguments sake, lets say its jews)
AAuzayrun ibnu Allahi Uzair is the son of God
waqalati alnnasara and said the 'christians' (for arguments sake, lets say its christians)
almaseehu ibnu Allahi the messiah is son of God
thalika qawluhum bi-afwahihim That is their saying by their mouths
yudahi-oona they imitate
qawla allatheena kafaroo sayings of those who REJECT
min qablu from before
qatalahumu Allahu anna yu/fakoona Allah cursed them for their lying.So why is 'those who reject' mentioned IN THIS CONTEXT and why is IMITATION mentioned here? Can you please read the ayah in full, Simple?
That is their saying by their mouths
they imitate
sayings of those who REJECT
from before
Allah cursed them for their lying.They are only saying it with their mouths THEIR IS NO SUBSTANCE. sayings of kufar from before - Allah's curse be on them.
In times gone people used to be gods or sons of god and then act wrongly in the earth doing many a thing criminal- now that had substance,crimes for which they will burn.
But sayings from the mouth without any wrong doing has no substance, no crime for the burning.
hmm
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That is their saying by their mouths
they imitate
sayings of those who REJECT
from before
Allah cursed them for their lying.They are only saying it with their mouths THEIR IS NO SUBSTANCE. sayings of kufar from before - Allah's curse be on them.
In times gone people used to be gods or sons of god and then act wrongly in the earth doing many a thing criminal- now that had substance,crimes for which they will burn.
But sayings from the mouth without any wrong doing has no substance, no crime for the burning.
hmm
There is no 'only' there, Simple. And the 'qatalahum Allah' is for ANYONE who says this (anna yu'fakoon)
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There is no 'only' there, Simple. And the 'qatalahum Allah' is for ANYONE who says this (anna yu'fakoon)
Sorry Br, calling onself Allah or the son of Allah or Rabb like pharoah did isn't a crime in itself as much as calling yourself such and doing all the wrongs in the world like pharoah - his crimes are world famous
here is an example of such.........
002.258
YUSUFALI Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said "I give life and death". Said Abraham "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.peace
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Salamun 'alaikum,
peace
Are all religions okay so long as..........
From my point of view, there's no such thing as religions. Religion is a term created by human to differentiate them self which is from my understanding is another act of polytheist as backup by ayaat below
3031-32 Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and hold the bond, and do not be of the polytheists. From those who have divided their system and become sects, each group is happy with what it has.
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for the polytheists is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whoever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
Allah introduce us through messenger to a system of life called dien.
For a single individual a dien can be interpreted as a way of life
For more than one person a dien can be interpreted as system of life that govern their life using Kitab as THE ONLY source of law.religion, democracy, secularism, communism, capitalism, liberalism, Vox populi, vox dei (The voice of the people the voice of God) etc are OPPOSITE of dien
Just a little bit of OOT
I like this quote
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit
And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness
is a similar like this ayaat below
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
the people are
- Peaceful,
- Truthful,
- Kind.
hmm
You do not need religion to achieve peacefulness, truthfulness, and kindness for single individual but you certainly need dien to achive those if you want apply it into a nation.
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Salamun 'alaikum,
From my point of view, there's no such thing as religions. Religion is a term created by human to differentiate them self which is from my understanding is another act of polytheist as backup by ayaat below
3031-32 Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and hold the bond, and do not be of the polytheists. From those who have divided their system and become sects, each group is happy with what it has.
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for the polytheists is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whoever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
Allah introduce us through messenger to a system of life called dien.
For a single individual a dien can be interpreted as a way of life
For more than one person a dien can be interpreted as system of life that govern their life using Kitab as THE ONLY source of law.religion, democracy, secularism, communism, capitalism, liberalism, Vox populi, vox dei (The voice of the people the voice of God) etc are OPPOSITE of dien
Just a little bit of OOT
I like this quote
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit
And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness
is a similar like this ayaat below
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
You do not need religion to achieve peacefulness, truthfulness, and kindness for single individual but you certainly need dien to achive those if you want apply it into a nation.
According to the quran
- There those who serve Allah(adopt peacful, truthful and a helpful ways) by choosing to serve humanity.
- Those who don't serve Allah(don't adopt the peaceful,truthful, and a helpful way) but choose to serve the select few(because of their ill ways). They are kufar and when they start to practice their ill ways they are classed as Mushriks(they are their to harm humanity but serve a select few).
I haven't checked but i doubt you will find any verse in the quran where it says "The Kufar and the Mushriks" check it.
Deen is simply fulfillment of your obligations to men.
Religions exist although they may not provide any benefits to anyone but as long as those people are fulfilling their obligations to humanity then there can't be any harm although there is no benefit neither.
peace
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Simple, its very sad that because you want to hold a particular view, you pay little attention to what Quran says. 19/88-91 tells you the total anger of God to whomever says He has a son.
Can you find ANY OTHER crime which has statements like seas with burst forth, mountains falling to utter ruin etc? I highly doubt it. But its there in 19/88-91 for saying Allah has taken a son.
So i leave you with your views.
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Simple, its very sad that because you want to hold a particular view, you pay little attention to what Quran says. 19/88-91 tells you the total anger of God to whomever says He has a son.
Gods anger descends on men when they call themselves god or sons of god and bahave wickidly - like pharoeh did, but jesus isn't here to show such wickidness, so people can say foolish things.
I have heard of Muslims Alims say things about Their prophet, so what ! It doesn't change the good things he did, for God knows.
Can you find ANY OTHER crime which has statements like seas with burst forth, mountains falling to utter ruin etc? I highly doubt it. But its there in 19/88-91 for saying Allah has taken a son.
So i leave you with your views.
you are welcome, but be careful of the things you are following they may not be what they seem to be.
using lanes/qd;
1988
They say "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
1989
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!1990
It is a wicked quality bursting in it and cleaving a sunder the disposition and causing to fall down the great/ stubborn to ruin.1991
That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.1992
For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son1993
Not one of the beings in quality and disposition but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.peace
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you are welcome, but be careful of the things you are following they may not be what they seem to be.
Do you fancy yourself some kind of guru or something, Simple? I've read your posts and i appreciate you won't accept orthodox views. Neither do I but if you wanna be a 'johnny-new-views', then you need actual substance. Don't talk in riddles and expect your views to see Quranic when they're not. The fact is, God uses very strong language for those who say he took a son. It's kufr no matter how much you fancy it's not.
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Do you fancy yourself some kind of guru or something, Simple? I've read your posts and i appreciate you won't accept orthodox views. Neither do I but if you wanna be a 'johnny-new-views', then you need actual substance. Don't talk in riddles and expect your views to see Quranic when they're not. The fact is, God uses very strong language for those who say he took a son. It's kufr no matter how much you fancy it's not.
To you your understanding and to me.........
peace
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Peace Simple,
According to the quran
- There those who serve Allah(adopt peacful, truthful and a helpful ways) by choosing to serve humanity.
The definition of muslim based on QS 4133 is a monotheist and doing good deeds. This is apply for single individual who choose dien from Kitab as his/her way of life.
Doing good deeds is NOTHING if you are not monotheist -> this is what I learn in al-Qur'an. Do you know why?
688 Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.
My advise to you, please ask guidance from Allah when you read from al-Qur'an, what kind of other actions that makes our worked in this world is fall away, you'll be surprise to find out that it is not just act of polytheist.
- Those who don't serve Allah(don't adopt the peaceful,truthful, and a helpful way) but choose to serve the select few(because of their ill ways). They are kufar and when they start to practice their ill ways they are classed as Mushriks(they are their to harm humanity but serve a select few).
The more you read and study al-Qur'an, you'll notice that kufar, munafiq, zalim, fasiq, they will lead to ultimate sin which is mushriks (act of polytheist). Based on my understanding now, they (kafir, fasiq, zalim, munafiq) are all the same.
I haven't checked but i doubt you will find any verse in the quran where it says "The Kufar and the Mushriks" check it.
There are a LOT of ayaat in al-Qur'an that contain the word kufar and mushrik in single ayaat, one of them is QS 2105
Deen is simply fulfillment of your obligations to men.
What kind of obligations that needs to fulfill? I'm really interest to hear your opinion about this matter.
Religions exist although they may not provide any benefits to anyone but as long as those people are fulfilling their obligations to humanity then there can't be any harm although there is no benefit neither.
I'm not sure I follow what you wrote, especially about the last sentence "as long as those people are fulfilling their obligations to humanity then there can't be any harm although there is no benefit neither."