Jews not following Torah are like donkeys with Books

Rami

First, the first criticizer of the Jews or Israelites was Yahweh Himself.

Second, the expression donkeys with books is not insulting to the Jews specifically, but anyone who caries a book and claim to believe in it and identify himself with it but doesn't follow it is indeed like a donkey carrying books. It is not degrading to the donkey but a donkey doesn't care or know the specificities of the load on his back.

Fawzia

Even criticism of other people is not unique to the Quran.

Sure, but that is tu quoque logical fallacy, to say that something isn't bad because so & so other people have also done it.

Saudis call blacks "abd" "zinji" etc disparagingly, racism isn't unique to them some Americans call Blacks niggers.

Does this justify or exonerate Saudi racism?

The Torah mocks Egypt as the place of sin. The NT bashes the Jews consistently. etc.

And that makes the Quran's bashing of Jews, Christians, idolators all right?

Turkey colonized Greece, that makes Netherlands' colonization of Indonesia allright?

Thats tu quoque logical fallacy again.

Many Jews don't believe in their books. Many Christians become atheists.

Who cares what anyone thinks. I know one thing for certain, truth is truth and it will prevail independent to what you and I believe or think, no matter what it is.

What these books preach is important, as they mould millions & billions of folks.

Thus if the NT bashes Jews, that became good excuse for the Church to persecute Jews for millennia, ditto with the Quran bashing Jews, that has often contributed to anti Semitism in Muslim lands.

Hate speech leads to hate crimes.

Fawzia

I told you, I will enter this discussion with you about jews when you answer the previous questions. You have run away and i think its clear now to the forum what an utter coward you are.
This question essentially clarifies YOUR initial post but I think you know, once you answer this, you will be caught )

Oooh! Delightful! Now a new adjective for me! bravo An "utter coward". First racist, smeegol, non Arabic speaker etc.

What fear would I have of being caught please? Do you imagine that I am Satan? >D

I have revealed pretty much about myself, "catching" me won't defend Islam as you seem to fancy.

You have to defend Quran & Allah or Muhammad's hate speech in it.

As a non racist who despises any signs of racism, as well as a Quranist Muslim, trying to make me into a Shaitan won't make your Quran right. If the Quran's such a perfect book, why this massive insecurity of yours? Why repeated attempts to characterize me as a racist, coward etc? Will that increase the merits of the Quran, & obfuscate its flaws?

Can't the Quran withstand scrutiny on its own merits, without your attempts to blacken the character of every apostate?

So is it racism or not? Is it non racist to call Jews "donkeys with books,"?

Rami

Sure, but that is tu quoque logical fallacy, to say that something isn't bad because so & so other people have also done it.

Saudis call blacks "abd" "zinji" etc disparagingly, racism isn't unique to them some Americans call Blacks niggers.

Does this justify or exonerate Saudi racism?

And that makes the Quran's bashing of Jews, Christians, idolators all right?

Turkey colonized Greece, that makes Netherlands' colonization of Indonesia allright?

Thats tu quoque logical fallacy again.

What these books preach is important, as they mould millions & billions of folks.

Thus if the NT bashes Jews, that became good excuse for the Church to persecute Jews for millennia, ditto with the Quran bashing Jews, that has often contributed to anti Semitism in Muslim lands.

Hate speech leads to hate crimes.

It is all right if it is the truth. If it is not the truth, it is not. Whatever the truth is.

Why don't you bash the rest? Go and bash the Jews and Christians in their sites and forums.

Fawzia

First, the first criticizer of the Jews or Israelites was Yahweh Himself.

Proof please?

Anyone can criticise so & so & say God mandated such behavior. Thus anyone racist can call Blacks niggers, then make a new religion & say that the God said this.

Proof that Yahweh exists & Allah is this Yahweh.

Second, the expression donkeys with books is not insulting to the Jews specifically, but anyone who caries a book and claim to believe in it and identify himself with it but doesn't follow it is indeed like a donkey carrying books. It is not degrading to the donkey but a donkey doesn't care or know the specificities of the load on his back.

Unfortunately for you, Quran specifically mentions Jews, sure it doesn't degrade donkeys, when did I claim it degrades donkeys?

062.005
YUSUFALI The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah and Allah guides not people who do wrong.
PICKTHAL The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
FREE MINDS The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.

By specifically mentioning Jews, then comparing them with donkeys with books, Allah &\or Muhammad is insulting millions of people.

Rami

Oooh! Delightful! Now a new adjective for me! bravo An "utter coward". First racist, smeegol, non Arabic speaker etc.

What fear would I have of being caught please? Do you imagine that I am Satan? >

I have revealed pretty much about myself, "catching" me won't defend Islam as you seem to fancy.

You have to defend Quran & Allah or Muhammad's hate speech in it.

As a non racist who despises any signs of racism, as well as a Quranist Muslim, trying to make me into a Shaitan won't make your Quran right. If the Quran's such a perfect book, why this massive insecurity of yours? Why repeated attempts to characterize me as a racist, coward etc? Will that increase the merits of the Quran, & obfuscate its flaws?

Can't the Quran withstand scrutiny on its own merits, without your attempts to blacken the character of every apostate?

So is it racism or not? Is it non racist to call Jews "donkeys with books,"?

Donkeys with books is an acquired title. It is only for the people who were given the Torah but didn't follow it. But the followers of the Torah are actually praised!!

Muslims today can be considered donkeys carrying the Quran.

abdalquran

Fawzia, I tell you what. I'll do this for you. I will address 62/5 and any other 'anti-jewish hate speech' in Quran on two conditions

that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my inquires regarding your initial argument about the Torah.
that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my counter questions about the 'jews in the quran'.

Yes or no?

upon your agreement, we will proceed.

Fawzia

It is all right if it is the truth. If it is not the truth, it is not. Whatever the truth is.

Why don't you bash the rest? Go and bash the Jews and Christians in their sites and forums.

Is it the truth Rami?

Does not upholding the Taurat make Jews donkeys with books, if they lead, decent law abiding lives?

I don't bash Jews & Christians coz I wasn't born to parents adhering to that faith, I was born to Muslim parents & raised Muslim.

There are plenty of those born Jewish & Muslim bashing their religions, as a never been Jew\Christian, I don't need to add my voice to that.

Donkeys with books is an acquired title. It is only for the people who were given the Torah but didn't follow it. But the followers of the Torah are actually praised!!

And whats wrong in not following if the people lead decent, law abiding lives? I know Jews who have bacon, they have great jobs, families, contribute to charity etc, are they "donkeys wth books?"

And who is Allah &\or Muhammad to decide how Jews should lead their lives? Why not leave their lives to them?

Rami

Is it the truth Rami?

Does not upholding the Taurat make Jews donkeys with books, if they lead, decent law abiding lives?

I don't bash Jews & Christians coz I wasn't born to parents adhering to that faith, I was born to Muslim parents & raised Muslim.

There are plenty of those born Jewish & Muslim bashing their religions, as a never been Jew\Christian, I don't need to add my voice to that.

And whats wrong in not following if the people lead decent, law abiding lives? I know Jews who have bacon, they have great jobs, families, contribute to charity etc, are they "donkeys wth books?"

And who is Allah &\or Muhammad to decide how Jews should lead their lives? Why not leave their lives to them?

The problem is that you don't believe in something called God anyway. So your worldview is different.

Fawzia

Fawzia, I tell you what. I'll do this for you. I will address 62/5 and any other 'anti-jewish hate speech' in Quran on two conditions

Again, if your book is so good & true, why this massive insecurity? Am I Satan's spawn that Allah has ordered you to fight?

Why do you need to keep characterizing me as "racist, smeegol....." to defend your Allah?

Can't you defend him without all that?

If Allah & Quran are all that good, you don't need to be so harassed over me, I'm not supposed to be perfect, Allah is.

So defend perfect Allah, is it racist hate speech to call Jews donkeys with books or not?

Counter attacking me makes it seem that Allah is incapable of being defended on his own merits.

herbman

Bernard Madoff was a donkey carriing books and all the jewish who followed him were donkeys too. Don't you think?

So YES when someone has a book with the LIGHT and still persist in corrupting the world is a DONKEY. what is the problem with that, because your boyfriend is jewish doesn't mean he is a donkey as long as he doesn't act as Madoff.

regards

Fawzia

The problem is that you don't believe in something called God anyway. So your worldview is different.

Quite right, I don't. So I don't accept hate speech, sexism, homophobia or discrimination based on "God\s." However, I do believe that such hate speech is wrong, & I won't judge God's hate speech on a different standard compared to anyone else's.

Thus, if an atheist is called a donkey with books by an Evangelist simply for not believing in God, I won't accept such hate speech. Likewise I won't accept Allah's characterization of decent Jews as "donkeys with books."

abdalquran

ROFL, so even with my agreeing to answer you on the condition that you answer my questions regarding your OWN arguments, you won't do it?

Who's being insecure? I don't mind answering ANY , i repeat ANY , points you have about 'jews in the quran and hate speech' issue. Im just waitng for your word as a decent human being that you will stick around and answer all my counter-queries.

Do you think it's fair for you to level charges yet run away to the next topic when challenged? I know you islamophobes need to somehow cling to your delusions to justify your personal vendetta against islam for your personal problems but go do it in the privacy of your own toilet. If you wanna use this forum then you need to be coherent, credible and informed.....or be like you.

So...I will put my offer forward again

I will address 62/5 and any other 'anti-jewish hate speech' in Quran on two conditions

that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my inquires regarding your initial argument about the Torah.
that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my counter questions about the 'jews in the quran'.

So come on Fawzia, we're dealing with YOUR issues here. Don't be a chicken, come forward and deal with your own queries. I answer your queries, you answer mine.

Rami

Again, if your book is so good & true, why this massive insecurity? Am I Satan's spawn that Allah has ordered you to fight?

Why do you need to keep characterizing me as "racist, smeegol....." to defend your Allah?

Can't you defend him without all that?

If Allah & Quran are all that good, you don't need to be so harassed over me, I'm not supposed to be perfect, Allah is.

So defend perfect Allah, is it racist hate speech to call Jews donkeys with books or not?

Counter attacking me makes it seem that Allah is incapable of being defended on his own merits.

But wait a minute, is Allah real?? Do you believe in the god of Israel??

If not, you questions are pointless. If Allah is real and He is the god of Israel speaking to Mohammed, the orphaned Israelite prophet from the Bani-HaShem clan, then yes the God of Israel is right, the Jews who don't follow the Torah are indeed LIKE donkeys with books.

Rami

Quite right, I don't. So I don't accept hate speech, sexism, homophobia or discrimination based on "God\s." However, I do believe that such hate speech is wrong, & I won't judge God's hate speech on a different standard compared to anyone else's.

Thus, if an atheist is called a donkey with books by an Evangelist simply for not believing in God, I won't accept such hate speech. Likewise I won't accept Allah's characterization of decent Jews as "donkeys with books."

Then we leave you in peace.

Fawzia

Bernard Madoff was a donkey carriing books and all the jewish who followed him were donkeys too. Don't you think?

So YES when someone has a book with the LIGHT and still persist in corrupting the world is a DONKEY. what is the problem with that, because your boyfriend is jewish doesn't mean he is a donkey as long as he doesn't act as Madoff.

regards

Bernard Madoff was a scum, a criminal. He didn't break Taurat laws, he also broke the nation's laws.

However, other Jews aren't like that.

The Quran doesn't speak of Jews who become theives, simply Jews who disobey the Taurat.

Here

"The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk."

I know bacon eating atheist Jews, there's no reason to characterize them as donkeys with books! Thats' un neccessary & offensive hate speech.

Rami

Bernard Madoff was a scum, a criminal. He didn't break Taurat laws, he also broke the nation's laws.

However, other Jews aren't like that.

The Quran doesn't speak of Jews who become theives, simply Jews who disobey the Taurat.

Here

"The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk."

I know bacon eating atheist Jews, there's no reason to characterize them as donkeys with books! Thats' un neccessary & offensive hate speech.

Bacon, come on baby. It is USURY!!!

Fawzia

ROFL, so even with my agreeing to answer you on the condition that you answer my questions regarding your OWN arguments, you won't do it?

Who's being insecure? I don't mind answering ANY , i repeat ANY , points you have about 'jews in the quran and hate speech' issue. Im just waitng for your word as a decent human being that you will stick around and answer all my counter-queries.

Do you think it's fair for you to level charges yet run away to the next topic when challenged? I know you islamophobes need to somehow cling to your delusions to justify your personal vendetta against islam for your personal problems but go do it in the privacy of your own toilet. If you wanna use this forum then you need to be coherent, credible and informed.....or be like you.

So come on Fawzia, we're dealing with YOUR issues here. Don't be a chicken, come forward and deal with your own queries. I answer your queries, you answer mine.

Ooooh! Hate speech from your side keeps increasing! bravo

Chicjen, Islamophobe,bringing personal vendetta out of the toilet etc!

But the Quran is a perfect book right?

So why the need to malign every critique & apostate?

Surely its defensible?

So defend calling Jews, "Donkeys with books." I'll answer after you defend.

herbman

Bernard Madoff was a scum, a criminal. He didn't break Taurat laws, he also broke the nation's laws.

However, other Jews aren't like that.

The Quran doesn't speak of Jews who become theives, simply Jews who disobey the Taurat.

Here

"The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk."

I know bacon eating atheist Jews, there's no reason to characterize them as donkeys with books! Thats' un neccessary & offensive hate speech.

you are wrong, breaking the rules means any rules of the Torah, theft is one of them, there are many others.

What about Einstein who creates the nuclear bomb.
What about Sharon and all the jewish persecuting people in Israel, is this not breaking the rules of God?
What about the Jewish lobbies in US who force US to attack IRAQ? is this not breaking the rules of God?
etc etc etc

Yes they are DONKEYS because on the DOJ, they should have just to follow their book to be guided and not offend and corrupt the world.

Peace

Fawzia

But wait a minute, is Allah real?? Do you believe in the god of Israel??
If not, you questions are pointless. If Allah is real and He is the god of Israel speaking to Mohammed, the orphaned Israelite prophet from the Bani-HaShem clan, then yes the God of Israel is right, the Jews who don't follow the Torah are indeed LIKE donkeys with books.

Of course they aren't pointless even if Allah &\or Yahweh are unreal, even if they're unreal they effect billions of lives.

Uttering hate speech against millions is wrong. Even if Allah isn't real & Muhammad is an imposter, by claiming to be a Prophet & calling Jews "donkeys with books," he's insulting millions.

Is it right to declare oneself a Prophet & insult millions?

Tomorrow a person can claim to be the next Jewish Prophet & insult Muslims as donkeys & asses & his followers will repeat calling them such names, would it be right?

If hate speech in the name of humans aren't right, why should Allah be free from this requirement of abstaining from hate speech?

Bacon, come on baby. It is USURY!!!

Allah isn't only speaking of usury here,He's referring to all non Taurat observing Jews, so nice Jews eating bacon are insulted as well.