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  4. women/ females/ orphans in Surah Nisa, 4:3

women/ females/ orphans in Surah Nisa, 4:3

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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    Mazhar
    wrote on last edited by
    #75

    Grand Qur'aan is guidance/knowledge for the mankind and for those who aspire and live a heedful, cautious life restraining from unrestrained conduct it is a Guide in time and space. Time and space is the day and night and varying situations arising therein. For such men Qur'aan is the source to be frequented to know the better course of action to handle a situation.

    403 begins with a conditional clause-describing a situation arisen

    http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.03c.gif

    And if you people apprehend that you may not be able to equally treat/look after the orphans,

    http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.03d.gif
    therefore/in such circumstances the best option for you people/the believing society is to arrange the marriage/nikah from the women in twos and threes and fours.
    http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.03e.gif
    For reason of being apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice and fairness then in such case marry only one woman or from amongst the house-maids /believing married woman who has migrated to you.

    http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.03f.gif
    This course of action will diminish the possibility of your/the society doing injustice .

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      sarah2505
      wrote on last edited by
      #76

      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.03d.gif
      therefore/in such circumstances the best option for you people/the believing society is to arrange the marriage/nikah from the women in twos and threes and fours.

      my question is, who are the men these women are marrying? Are they single men, or already married men? This has an immediate impact on the legitimacy of polygamy

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        Mazhar
        wrote on last edited by
        #77

        my question is, who are the men these women are marrying? Are they single men, or already married men? This has an immediate impact on the legitimacy of polygamy

        All men are included, a "virgin" man, a married man, an earlier married man but now without a wife. Legitimacy is only in observing the conditions laid down for the permission/solution given. "Polygamy" in the perception of enjoying "variety" is nowhere permitted or exists in Qur'aan.

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          san
          wrote on last edited by
          #78

          Legitimacy is only in observing the conditions laid down for the permission/solution given.

          I have for some time realized the 'algorithmic' nature of some verses of the Quran.

          It is called conditional statement in programming, where the statement will not be executed unless the condition occurs (i.e., become "true&quot.

          If ...
          then ...

          in Arabic, the equivalence would be

          in ...
          fa ...

          (this is not always the case.)

          The case with Alnisaa', imo, is that the verses in question (43 and inheritance in 411-12) are often evaluated in exclusion, apart from the context--especially the preceding verses! And to make things worse, some poor translations changed the original condition (and also its statement) into another entirely different thing--false polygamy.

          I just had an idea some moments ago, that this Sura deserves special attention from the public, with so many issues related to this sura.

          Orphans, women, inheritance, adultery, ...

          What about we develop a website dedicated to explaining the Sura, visually?

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            sarah2505
            wrote on last edited by
            #79

            What about we develop a website dedicated to explaining the Sura, visually?

            a lot of people would benefit from that.

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              sarah2505
              wrote on last edited by
              #80

              All men are included, a "virgin" man, a married man, an earlier married man but now without a wife. Legitimacy is only in observing the conditions laid down for the permission/solution given. "Polygamy" in the perception of enjoying "variety" is nowhere permitted or exists in Qur'aan.

              Is there any other verse in the Quran, with the exception of 43 that could possibly be interpreted as allowing a second marriage to an already married man? The one about not being married to two sisters refers to a past event, not a new marriage after the revelation of the Quran.

              If there isn't, that would suggest that polygamy was never allowed for the believing man.

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                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #81

                What about we develop a website dedicated to explaining the Sura, visually?

                a lot of people would benefit from that.

                Wherever there is a need to let people see the "visuals", Qur'aan narrates that in such a manner that the reader could also see/visualize the incident/episode/incident.

                http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.104b.gif
                You, the Messenger pronounce, "Indeed to you people has been brought from your Sustainer Lord the "Visualizer"

                http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.104e.gif
                Therefore whoever focused/visualized then it is indeed for his own person.
                http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.104f.gif
                And whoever remained blind to it then the effect is upon that self.
                http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.104d.gif
                And I am not upon you people, certainly, the Guard/onlooker .

                http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/6.105a.gif
                And this is how We rotate/centrifuge the Aa'ya'at so that people may say, " you threshed, examined/explained exhaustively", and so that We may make it distinct/apparent/manifest from all angles for the people to comprehensively know/understand it.

                http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/006.%20Al%20Anaam%20B.htm

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                  sarah2505
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #82

                  I think san said 'visual' in order to mean something that is easier to understand for someone who doesn't understand the Arabic language, but may or may not know how to read the Arabic script. A website would be helpful.

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                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #83

                    Is there any other verse in the Quran, with the exception of 43 that could possibly be interpreted as allowing a second marriage to an already married man? The one about not being married to two sisters refers to a past event, not a new marriage after the revelation of the Quran.

                    If there isn't, that would suggest that polygamy was never allowed for the believing man.

                    This is declaring the prohibition that you might gather two sisters in your marriage fold, NOT second marriage, and is clarified that this injunction is not to be applied retrospectively but prospectively. An act done in the past cannot be undone, it had to be overlooked to avoid legal complications/problems for people.

                    For another quote please refer to 4129.

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                      sarah2505
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #84

                      This is declaring the prohibition that you might gather two sisters in your marriage fold,...

                      marriage fold? what does that mean?

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                        Mazhar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #85

                        In the fold of Nikah, do not collect two women who are sisters in your Nikah.

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                          sarah2505
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #86

                          In the fold of Nikah, do not collect two women who are sisters in your Nikah.

                          as in you can't marry a woman's sister after divorcing her?

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                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #87

                            as in you can't marry a woman's sister after divorcing her?

                            you can marry with your ex wife's sister, and incase you divorce your ex wife's sister too, then you can remarry your first ex wife the sister of your latest ex wife.

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                              san
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #88

                              you can marry with your ex wife's sister, and incase you divorce your ex wife's sister too, then you can remarry your first ex wife the sister of your latest ex wife.

                              I know that's technical, but do you have any example of this? That would be "plin-plan" in my language--a term for an undecided man (you know, sort of like 'ping-pong&#039

                              OK. no one have to answer this one.

                              offtopic

                              Peace ;D

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                                sarah2505
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #89

                                Islam completely destroyed, utterly annihilated the pre Islamic society. The defeated people didn't simply get defeated, they ceased to exist.

                                No pre Islamic pagan existed to tell his or her side of the events! Thats' the difference.

                                Hardly. Just look at 'undivided India.' Almost every 'Muslim person in present day Bangladesh or India has Hindu ancestors. They weren't wiped out, they converted. A lot of people convert because it is convenient. For instance, there are many people in Bangladesh and in India who converted to Christianity to benefit from missionary organisations and in order to overcome low/untouchable caste restrictions placed on them.

                                Your argument doesn't really hold. You have no proof that they were killed

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                                  sarah2505
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #90

                                  Evedence? Ridiculous! How many pre Islamic pagans of Saudi Arabia or Yemen do you know? How many such pagans, worshipping allat, al Uzza, al Manat do you know existed from the 10th, 11th etc centuries, after Islam please?

                                  As the Quran & if you're willing to accept hadiths, hadiths say,they existed before Islam. Are they existing in KSA or Yemen today?

                                  What proof do you have that they were 'annihilated' as opposed to conversion?

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                                    sarah2505
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #91

                                    Although at birth there are a few less female children, as women are healthier, if not ill treated, they can & do outliv men, leading to a sex ratio favoring women in the total population.

                                    This isn't about present day society. I am asking about demographics in 7th century Arabia. So, I think we can reasonably imagine the reverse. i.e. women are less healthy, they suffer ill treatment, and maybe they are outlived by men. Wouldn't that lead to a sex ratio favouring men in the total population, even without taking into consideration female infanticide?

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                                      sarah2505
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #92

                                      Women outlive men in virtually every nation, however due to ill treatment, in your Bangladesh, men outlive women!
                                      Seriously Sarah! Aren't you a University student?

                                      Well, if you weren't making a personal attack, you wouldn't have brought up Bangladesh when it doesn't come at the top of some list concerning ill treatment, harassment, of women. You picked out Bangladesh only because it happens to be the country I come from.

                                      Your second statement is also a personal attack

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                                        sarah2505
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #93

                                        Wiped out means that they are now dead or convered! If they accepted Islam, they'd surely now be pro Islam, rather than write from the point of view of the society which was destroyed by Muhammad & Co.

                                        I guess? It is well known that in the past (Mughal times) a lot of Hindus in Bangladesh converted to Islam. A lot of lower caste Hindus were also coerced into converting to Christianity by missionaries in exchange for food, schooling and other forms of help. I am quite sure these people are pro-'Muslim' and pro-'Christian' respectively. Why shouldn't the same apply?

                                        People aren't too concerned with the religion of their ancestors, but tend to believe in the religion they were born and brought up with.

                                        Why does it matter what the point of view of their ancestors was?

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                                          sarah2505
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #94

                                          So in most nations, upto old age, men outnumber women. However, as women outlive men in most nations, in the total population of many nations, there're indeed more women.

                                          I think we are more concerned not with the overall ratio, but the ratio at and around the 'marriageable age' or when the woman might have children.

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