I challenge all Quranists.

stranger1990

On the contrary, I too have read ahadith similar to what you said, but NOT exactly like you said it. I want you to cite the specific hadith, so we can see if it says what you say. It really is quite a simple request.

Ok, I'll try to find it.

abdalquran

What? there were many hafiz at the time of the Prophet so if a peace of Paper was lost that doesn't mean part of the Qur'an is lost Allah subhannahu wattalla says in Surah Alhijir so the Qur'an was never changed and it's protected by Allah himself, many sects in history tried to change it like Shia who wanted to add words like Imam and Ali but you know who stood in front of them? Ahlu alsunnah who already memorized the Qur'an in numbers.

Stranger, I don't believe in this myself but it's the belief of your ahlusunnah folk. Here's the hadith about it

Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith # 1934)

Narrated Aisha 'The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept
under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."

You really need to ask your ulema this stuff, man. They have some serious explaining to do.

herbman

Salam, Peace, Stranger, all,

The title of the topic "I challenge all quranist" is somehow quiet arrogant for someone who publicaly declare
"I'm not studying AlQuran, studying AlQuran will need me to go and attend lectures to scholars and I'll need to spend serious amount of time studying the whole Qur'an"
Yeah spending time studiying The Reading is maybe not worthy for you.

I mean would you go in a hospital and tell the doctors "I challenge all the doctors, however I never studied medecin"!!!!!

My question to you

Why is this topic for?

san

Salaam again, stranger1990,

No, the Qur'an is the word of Allah. Tafseer is the word of man explaining the Qur'an.

True.

explain that question more please.

Here you go Are you trying to understand Classical (Quranic) Arabic? e.g., are you learning Arabic in any way?

I'm not studying AlQuran, studying AlQuran will need me to go and attend lectures to scholars and I'll need to spend serious amount of time studying the whole Qur'an

when I don't understand a verse or get confused I check the tafseer of Bin Kathir to understand it better.

Thank you. That gives us a clue of your current relationship with Alqur'aan.

Serious amount of time... of what -- your life? Surely you remember that this is only a very short life? Like the passing of a day or even shorter?

Actually, you don't need to go and attend lectures to scholars. For a start, those scholars do have some kind of record of their thoughts in readable materials, don't they?

Regarding tafseer -- that is actually how you approach to study Alqur'aan, though i may suggest that you should have more references to cross-check what you learn. Yes, this is what i'm suggesting to you read more tafseers for cross-reference. Do like what those scholars did. And keep on practicing what you've understood (esp. regarding taqwa and Amilu AlSaliHat), may ALLAH guides you to better understanding.

You mean Adilah? it's the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet

Prophet who -- there are many Prophets mentioned in the Qur'an. We're not to make distinction to any of them.

384 Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims to Him."

Of course i understood that you were referring to the Messenger and Last Prophet Muhammad, weren't you? The Last Prophet followed Alqur'aan. So if you are trying to follow the Prophet, of course you are also trying to follow the Alqur'aan, the Message from ALLAH. My suggestion in this case is Any information regarding what the Prophet Muhammad is reported to have done, verify it against Alqur'aan. I can't stress that enough. 1736 again.

I noticed your attitude has improved since the start of this thread, which is a good thing to induce a better discussion. Good luck & Salaam,

san

Re Studying Alqur'aan, you might be interested in QXP -- Quran as it explained itself by Dr. Shabbir. From his intro

QXP is a Tasreef-based understanding of the Qur?an presented in contemporary English that is easy enough even for teenagers. It is not a literal translation.

Tasreef is the Qur?anic process where verses in one part of the Qur?an explain or provide deeper understanding of the verses in other parts of the Book. Concisely, it means looking at the Qur?an in its Big Picture. The Qur?an,thus, lets us look at its terms and concepts from very diverse vantage points.This is how special care has been taken to explain every verse from within the Qur?an itself. ...

http//www.ourbeacon.com/?cat=8 (you can read it online, the Arabic and the explanation in English, with references to root words etc)

Good luck & Salaam

stranger1990

Slakm all,

I think that when the verse was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad he should do explain to his companions if he didn't explain to them, then the verse must be interpreted in many segments, or it might be chaotic among the companions about the verses. On the other hand, his companions must asked the Prophet when their had got the questions about the clue of the verses. However, the practiced of the Prophet according to God revealed must be the best pattern of conduct and clear among the companions. I do believe that all the practiced of the prophet must be told and remembered by his companions and would be tradition for centuries after the Prophet passed away. In my opinion Imam Bukhari did a great job in collecting the prophetic traditions. I don?t believe all words of Bukhari, but I read the Qur-an and compared with Bukhari. I realized that when you read the book of Buhkari liken to read the historic book. We have been reading many books since we could read as; Scientific book, business book and etc. But some theories we can get and some we can deny. Allah Stated

"And We have sent down to you the Book with truth, authenticating what is present of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute." (The Message 54

They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say 'In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit.' And they ask you how much are they to give, Say 'The excess.' It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (The Message 2219)

Can you explain the underlined words?

the first Ayah talks about different religions with different books, he gave us different deens, he could create one religion but he made more then one with different sharia and sunnan but same message.

Jesus said to the Jews that he will allow some of which was forbidden on them in 350

And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.

the second Ayah talks about harm from them and benefits, the benefits are only benefits in this life, wining in gambling is beneficial for you, you could spend the money on your family the Alcohol would have health benefits, but these things does more harm then benefits so its forbidden.

san

Reminder to stranger1990

Also if you want to ask me about anything, I'll be happy to answer them all.

Ok, I'll try to find it.

And reminder to all of us

1823 And never say of anything, "Indeed, I will do that tomorrow,"

1824 Except, "If Allah wills." And remember your Lord when you forget and say, "Perhaps my Lord will guide me to what is nearer than this to right conduct."

stranger1990

Peace all,

To Stranger 1990, can you convince me that Stoning to Death is God's Punishment for married person who commits Adultery.

And why do you think that when doing so, stoning to death, you are not violating God's Quranic Laws (i.e., Kaffer), and your are not associating with God what He did not reveal in Quran (i.e., Moshirk).
peace TWO Major Sins are committed by Sunni, just for Believing in Stoning to Death. Moshrik and Kaffer will have Eternal Life sentence in Hellfire.

a non-Married zani might have an excuse for his crime, but a married zani absolutely has no excuse.

let me ask you something, you know what happened to the people of Lut, but Liwat has no punishment in the Qur'an is it even logical that Allah want to punish zina but won't punish the worst Liwat? Allah says "his day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." how can he complete our religion without telling us about things like Liwat? or because his messenger already did.

SarahY

Asalamu alaikum stranger1990 )

How are you? I bet abit stressed with all the questioning. Though i guess you brought on this challenge.. you said something i?d like to comment about

?I'm not studying AlQuran, studying AlQuran will need me to go and attend lectures to scholars and I'll need to spend serious amount of time studying the whole Qur'an

when I don't understand a verse or get confused I check the tafseer of Bin Kathir to understand it better.?

You?re not studying the Quran? Then what makes you believe this is truth? Did you inherit the truth? Is that how it works?

Also you?re sourcing with Ibn kathir. Why do you trust his judgement, out of curiousity? Is it his popularity?

Scholars.. what scholars would you see, hypothetically if you had all the time in the world and money wasn?t an issue? Where are you from? In the sunni world, today?s scholars aren?t revered as the past scholars. How sad ( it must mean we are bound to be corrupt and go to hell ay?

Another thing scholars follow a school of thought however ahlel sunnah wa jama`a are in difference of opinion whether it is a wajeb or not to do taqleed. Majority agree it is necessary. Why is it that with all the madhahab only 4? Do you know much on the history about it? There used to be 100?s of madhahab and as you know all madhabs are right doesn?t it make you think wow if there were hundreds how many opinions were there!? Maybe it doesn?t i don?t know.

So out of curiousity do you follow a madhab? if so, what? If not why not?

Bigmo

Disagreed. Lets analyse 5/48 again

And We have sent down to thee the Book with truth, confirming what is between its two hands, and assuring it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one We have placed of you a right way and an open road If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance.

Some points about 5/48

The book with truth (al-kitab bil haqq) is the Quran itself. Al-quran is 'al-haqq' (41/53) and its the tafseel/detailing of al-kitab (10/37)
5/48 tells us to judge with al-kitab bil haqq and not their own desires. At this point, it does not tell the reader that other books are included. So its either Quran or your desires.
To 'every one We have placed of you' (li kulli ja'alnaa minkum) cannot be read as for religious communities (i.e. jews and christians) because the 'you' (kum) here is the same 'kum' is used in the phrase 'made you one nation' ('la ja'aalaKUM ummatan wahidat&#039. This 'you' if we see 2/213 refers to an-naas/humankind, not three religious groups.

The Quran NEVER approves of 3 religious books. This is a myth.

But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah. yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
We ordained therein for them "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

It seems pretty clear to me.

MUNZIR_ALI

Hello, I'm a Sunni I challenge all of you to prove one or 2 things to me

1- your sect is the only true one

2- Ahlu Alsunnah Waljammah are false

you can use any time of history, any hadith, anything you want but no mocking, I won't answer anyone mocking.

I hope you accept my challenge and have a nice day.

I challenge you to read the articles in free-minds.org with an open mind.

peace

abdalquran

It seems pretty clear to me.

In translation, it would seem to favour your views. However, I would ask you to consider these points

Why would Quran ask you to consider another text when it considers itself fully-detailed (6/114)
The Quran calls itself 'al-furqan'/the criterion (2/185, 25/1), how would it view ideologies which run contrary to it? Why would it need books which simply confirm what it says?
5/43 should be read as an extention of 5/41-42 which shows a list of behavioural traits (like listening to lies, consuming the unlawful). It is these people who refuse 'tauraat' wherein God's law. This is in singular btw, 'hukm' not 'ahkaam' in plural. The phrase 'their own law' isnt in there at all.
5/44 to mention Musa at all. You will never find in Quran anywhere saying Musa recieves 'tauraat'. Furthermore, 6/84-89 mentions a whole group of Prophets (including Musa) and once again, they were all given 'al-kitab' (i.e. God's teachings).
5/46 mentions Isa being given taurat and injeel. However, in 3/48, we are told that Isa was given 'al-kitab'/the book, 'al-hikmah' as well as taurat and injeel. Al-kitab is the same thing mentioned in 6/84-89 above and Isa is included in that list. How then can taurat and injeel be books?
9/111 mentions a promise by Allah in tauraat and injeel. This promise is nowhere mentioned in what ppl consider to be Torah and Gospel.
48/29 mentions two things which would are similitudes in taurat and injeel respectively. Once again, the Torah and Gospel do not have these statements.

We identify signifieds by characteristics of the signifiers, not similar names.

Bigmo

In translation, it would seem to favour your views. However, I would ask you to consider these points

Why would Quran ask you to consider another text when it considers itself fully-detailed (6/114)
The Quran calls itself 'al-furqan'/the criterion (2/185, 25/1), how would it view ideologies which run contrary to it? Why would it need books which simply confirm what it says?
5/43 should be read as an extention of 5/41-42 which shows a list of behavioural traits (like listening to lies, consuming the unlawful). It is these people who refuse 'tauraat' wherein God's law. This is in singular btw, 'hukm' not 'ahkaam' in plural. The phrase 'their own law' isnt in there at all.
5/44 to mention Musa at all. You will never find in Quran anywhere saying Musa recieves 'tauraat'. Furthermore, 6/84-89 mentions a whole group of Prophets (including Musa) and once again, they were all given 'al-kitab' (i.e. God's teachings).
5/46 mentions Isa being given taurat and injeel. However, in 3/48, we are told that Isa was given 'al-kitab'/the book, 'al-hikmah' as well as taurat and injeel. Al-kitab is the same thing mentioned in 6/84-89 above and Isa is included in that list. How then can taurat and injeel be books?
9/111 mentions a promise by Allah in tauraat and injeel. This promise is nowhere mentioned in what ppl consider to be Torah and Gospel.
48/29 mentions two things which would are similitudes in taurat and injeel respectively. Once again, the Torah and Gospel do not have these statements.

We identify signifieds by characteristics of the signifiers, not similar names.

Next time please paste the verses itself and not just the numbers. This way I don't have to go and look up what these verses are saying.

Taurat is not what was "revealed" to Moses but what came down with him, maybe with his memeory and legacy. The ten commandments was what actually came to Moses physically. There is no Quran like scriptures that came to any prophet. Jesus we are told was a walking and talking Quran and was preaching as a young boy but he had that knowledge genetically coded in him from birth. There is a misconception that a similar Quran came down to the other prophets and therefore what we have today is not what the Quran is talking about. I am not sure about that since all I know that actually was revealed in writing and in physical form to Moses was the Tablet with the 10 commandments. The Quran uses words like we "revealed" we "brought down" and we "gave" and so on and linguistic interpretation of the Quran is very difficult and complex. But there is no doubt that the Quran is refering to the scriptures we have today known as the OT and NT plus the other scriptures that has not been canonized by the Jewish and Christian orthodoxies.

There is no evidence that a Quran like scripture came down on the other prophets.

AS far as verses 48.29 I have shown tons of verses from the OT and NT that says exactly what the Quran said. Also the promise the Quran made is also there. However we must not read the OT the way we read the NT and we must not read the Quran the way we read the NT. Each is unique but each is a book of guidance in its own right and each is sufficient as a book of faith. Thats how I read the verses.

Meanwhile see this

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597992.0

Bigmo

In translation, it would seem to favour your views. However, I would ask you to consider these points

Why would Quran ask you to consider another text when it considers itself fully-detailed (6/114)
The Quran calls itself 'al-furqan'/the criterion (2/185, 25/1), how would it view ideologies which run contrary to it? Why would it need books which simply confirm what it says?
5/43 should be read as an extention of 5/41-42 which shows a list of behavioural traits (like listening to lies, consuming the unlawful). It is these people who refuse 'tauraat' wherein God's law. This is in singular btw, 'hukm' not 'ahkaam' in plural. The phrase 'their own law' isnt in there at all.
5/44 to mention Musa at all. You will never find in Quran anywhere saying Musa recieves 'tauraat'. Furthermore, 6/84-89 mentions a whole group of Prophets (including Musa) and once again, they were all given 'al-kitab' (i.e. God's teachings).
5/46 mentions Isa being given taurat and injeel. However, in 3/48, we are told that Isa was given 'al-kitab'/the book, 'al-hikmah' as well as taurat and injeel. Al-kitab is the same thing mentioned in 6/84-89 above and Isa is included in that list. How then can taurat and injeel be books?
9/111 mentions a promise by Allah in tauraat and injeel. This promise is nowhere mentioned in what ppl consider to be Torah and Gospel.
48/29 mentions two things which would are similitudes in taurat and injeel respectively. Once again, the Torah and Gospel do not have these statements.

We identify signifieds by characteristics of the signifiers, not similar names.

abdalquran

Next time please paste the verses itself and not just the numbers. This way I don't have to go and look up what these verses are saying.

You should look it up anyway and not trust anyone's translation.

Taurat is not what was "revealed" to Moses but what came down with him, maybe with his memeory and legacy. The ten commandments was what actually came to Moses physically.

Sorry, no proof at all from Quran. Not once is tauraat mentioned at all with Musa in any process whatosever.

There is no Quran like scriptures that came to any prophet. Jesus we are told was a walking and talking Quran and was preaching as a young boy but he had that knowledge genetically coded in him from birth. There is a misconception that a similar Quran came down to the other prophets and therefore what we have today is not what the Quran is talking about. I am not sure about that since all I know that actually was revealed in writing and in physical form to Moses was the Tablet with the 10 commandments. The Quran uses words like we "revealed" we "brought down" and we "gave" and so on and linguistic interpretation of the Quran is very difficult and complex. But there is no doubt that the Quran is refering to the scriptures we have today known as the OT and NT plus the other scriptures that has not been canonized by the Jewish and Christian orthodoxies.

Actually, the Quran says in 41/43

Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the messengers before thee that thy lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as a most Grievous Penalty

So according to Quran, its saying are known to all the messengers.

And as I showed you, 6/84-89 above. Musa and Isa recieved exactly the same teachings as Quran.

There is no way Quran refers to your OT and NT. It is fully detailed and does not need any other supplementary scripture.

AS far as verses 48.29 I have shown tons of verses from the OT and NT that says exactly what the Quran said. Also the promise the Quran made is also there. However we must not read the OT the way we read the NT and we must not read the Quran the way we read the NT. Each is unique but each is a book of guidance in its own right and each is sufficient as a book of faith. Thats how I read the verses.

Meanwhile see this

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597992.0

Lol, this is what I mean by patchwork attempts. 48/29 says

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat

Look at the half-quotes you're supplying us in the other thread! Are those referring to 'those with Muhammad'? Not at all! Sorry mate, you're welcome to your views but those who study the Quran seriously would never accept half-verses from your OT to meet Quran's description. Quran stands on its own, it doesn't need any other text but stands as a criteria above all texts.

belH

a non-Married zani might have an excuse for his crime, but a married zani absolutely has no excuse.

let me ask you something, you know what happened to the people of Lut, but Liwat has no punishment in the Qur'an is it even logical that Allah want to punish zina but won't punish the worst Liwat? Allah says "his day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." how can he complete our religion without telling us about things like Liwat? or because his messenger already did.

Peace,

So, Are you disbeliever of 24-2?
Are you saying that the stoning to death is God's commandment that Prophet Mohamed refused to write in the Quran? And if so, Do you mean that the Prophet disobeyed God by not writing this commandment? Or, are you following the rummers of others instead of following the Well-established Commandment of 24-2

242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding the system of God if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
242

If this is Sunisem, then Thanks to God that I'm a Moslem who submits to God Alone BY following His Commandments that are in the Quran.

We said Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
238

And those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of Hell, in it they will abide.
239

Bigmo

You should look it up anyway and not trust anyone's translation.

Sorry, no proof at all from Quran. Not once is tauraat mentioned at all with Musa in any process whatosever.

Actually, the Quran says in 41/43

Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the messengers before thee that thy lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as a most Grievous Penalty

So according to Quran, its saying are known to all the messengers.

And as I showed you, 6/84-89 above. Musa and Isa recieved exactly the same teachings as Quran.

There is no way Quran refers to your OT and NT. It is fully detailed and does not need any other supplementary scripture.

Lol, this is what I mean by patchwork attempts. 48/29 says

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat

Look at the half-quotes you're supplying us in the other thread! Are those referring to 'those with Muhammad'? Not at all! Sorry mate, you're welcome to your views but those who study the Quran seriously would never accept half-verses from your OT to meet Quran's description. Quran stands on its own, it doesn't need any other text but stands as a criteria above all texts.

I am not sure what you are saying. But I never said the Quran is not sufficient on its own. I said that the Quran also sees the OT and NT as sufficient on their own. Why else would the Quran order Jews and Christians to follow its teachings and not to divert away from it. As I have said the Talmud and trinity are not based on OT or NT.

You also did not understand what I said about Torah and Moses. I said the Torah was written by eye witness accounts and some prophetic accounts. Its written by humans. There is no "original version", it was always like that. If something was accounted wrongly, it remained there till now. Nobody knows who were its authors, most Biblical scholars believe four or five people were involved in the initial writing. However there is no scriptures that came to Moses the way the Quran came to Muhammad. Jesus in the Quran did not need revelations to recite to poeple as the words of God was genetically coded on him from birth. The Quran makes that very clear and tells us Jesus spoke when in the cradle and preached as a child. Many Christian accounts says that also although they do not form the official canons of Catholicism or Protestanism, but these early scriptures are there.

We know that God communicatd with Moses as the Quran tells us but I see no evidence that it came in a spoken and continous form as the Quran. No scriptures was revealed to Jesus like the Quran as Jesus had a different form of communication. Many Muslims believe a Quran like scriptures came down and this scriptures has been lost. There is no evidence whether in the Quran or history of that.

I am not an expert on this and I am sure in the future more expertise about this will come about.

However the Quran makes it clear that it sees the OT and NT and the Quran as equal in authority. Each is sufficient as a guidance and each is a guidance and a law and a spiritual path. They have different formats, but they all lead to the same. Each has its challenges and diificulties and mysteries but each is sufficient.

The Sunnah, the Talmud and the Trinity is something else.

But what I am saying is that IF YOU WANT TO BE A QURANIST ACTIVIST, you will have to have knowledge of the previous scriptures and previous traditions. The Quran itself tells the prophet to seek knowledge of the previous scriptures and to ask the Rabbis and Preists if he has doubts.

And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that) was before thee... (Surah 10, Jonah, verse 94)

But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have the Torah before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 43)

TruthBehindIt

Salam and Peace on you respected brother!

1)---Please, can you show me the word or terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" in Allah's Quran???

Take it as a challenge.---A brotherly challenge.

And if you can not show this terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" in Allah's Quran, then fear Allah, and don't invite people to what is not Approved and Authorized by Allah as Deen.

Student_of_Allah

Salam,

Just had to share my thought
Must comment on a quote

Since Qur'an alone is a new sect

lol, no brothers, its not new at all. What do you think Muhammad followed for religious guidance ? Qur'an alone

Is it that hard to get ? brickwall You understand this logic when you debate a christian, you dont have faith in St. Paul but ask me to have faith in St. Bukhari. You ask the Christain to provide the Injeel not the words of historians, but you yourself follow the words of historians for religious teaching. May Allah guide us.

---------------- Student of Allah

raginggaijin

Hello, I'm a Sunni I challenge all of you to prove one or 2 things to me

1- your sect is the only true one

2- Ahlu Alsunnah Waljammah are false

you can use any time of history, any hadith, anything you want but no mocking, I won't answer anyone mocking.

I hope you accept my challenge and have a nice day.

Let us turn to the Quran, and the teachings of the People of the Book to see who is on the right path, and who is led astray.

Those who uphold hadith reject the Quran. Allah has not given authority to follow anything but what He revealed.

?Follow what has been revealed to you from your Lord and do not follow guardians besides Him, how little do you mind.? Surah 73

Take a test and see if you obey Allah and the Messenger, or if you obey the way of the ancients.
This is ?pass or fail?, just as it will be on the Day of Judgment. Let us see who truly rejects the Quran.

Muhammad (pbuh) was revealed the Quran by Allah, and it was the Prophet (pbuh) who taught us the Quran. Only in the Quran, the pure, protected revelation, do we have proof of the Messenger?s words
"Say 'I do not find, in what is revealed to me, aught forbidden to him who eats thereof except it be carrion, or blood outpoured, or the flesh of swine -- that is unclean -- or an ungodly thing that has been blessed to other than Allah; yet whoso is constrained, not desiring nor transgressing, surely thy Lord is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.'" Surah 6145
That is the Prophet Muhammad speaking (pbuh). He states nothing is forbidden EXCEPT four specific foods. Carrion, blood, flesh of swine, and food blessed to another god.

Now turn to hadith, and count how many foods are forbidden within.
Then look to the additions in the Torah and find the same forbidden foods as the Jews ? Orthodox Yahduians who follow the Talmud, also known as the Oral Law.

Beasts with fangs Sahih Bukhari #5527, Sahih Muslim # 2721
Donkey Meat Sahih Bukhari #5521
Birds with talons Sahih Muslim # 4752
Amphibians Saheeh Jaami #6970

Beasts with fangs Lev. 113; Deut. 146
Donkey Meat Lev. 113-4, Deut. 147
Birds with talons Lev. 1113-20, Deut. 1412
Amphibians Lev. 1129-30, 42-43, Deut. 1410

Halal/kosher food Lev. 111-46, Deut. 143-21

A follower of hadith cannot say these were revealed to Muhammad and passed on in hadith, because Allah is verifies what the Jews were forbidden

"And to those of Jewry We have forbidden every beast with claws; and of oxen and sheep We have forbidden them the fat of them, save what their backs carry, or their entrails, or what is mingled with bone; that We recompensed them for their insolence; surely We speak truly." Surah 6146

Allah revealed to the Messenger that all foods not forbidden in the Quran were permitted to the People of the Book, abrogating the previous Messages The Torah and Injeel.
?Today the good things are permitted you, and the food of those who were given the Book is permitted to you, and permitted to them is your food; Likewise believing women in wedlock, and in wedlock women of them who were given the Book before you if you give them their wages, in wedlock and not in licence, or as taking lovers. Whoso disbelieves in the faith, his work has failed, and in the world to come he shall be among the losers.? Surah 55

Who, when proof is given, is shown to reject the Quran and who is shown to uphold it?

"The Truth has come and falsehood vanished. Surely falsehood is ever bound to vanish." Surah 1781, 3447-50

Only believers, Muslims with faith in their heart who uphold the revelation of Allah, the word of an honored Messenger, pass the test.

Followers of hadith follow teachings of the Jews and Christians, rewritten into hadith.

Terrorism, violence and intolerance Deut. 2010-18, Num. 3117, Num. 3132-35, Joshua 621-24, I Sam.l 1827, I Kings 1840
Religious compulsion (kill unbelievers) Lev. 2416, Ph. 210; Deut 172-7, II Chron.1513, Deut. 135-10
Apostasy Deut. 135-10
Suicide Mission Judges 1627-30
Stoning Adulterers Deut. 2223-24, Lev. 210, John 86-8
Sunni ?Al-Aqeedah? Gen. 221-19, James 221, Heb. 117, Rom. 416
Halal/kosher food Lev. 111-46
Genital mutilation Gen. 1713-14, Gen. 1723-25, Exo. 424-26
Cut off hand/feet Deut. 2511-12, Mat. 530, Mark 943-45
Grow a beard Lev. 1927, Lev. 215, II Sam. 105
Cover your head Lev. 106, II Maccabes 4412, Shabbat 156b
?Cover your head in order that the fear of heaven may be upon you.? ~ Talmud
Djjal/All-Seeing Eye/Head Corner-stone Job 384-7, Zech. 1117, Mat. 622, Luke 1134, Eph. 221-22, Rev. 16213, Rev. 1920, Rev. 2010
Slavery Lev. 2544-46, Lev. 2210-11, Exo. 2132
Females are unclean Lev. 122-5, Lev. 1519-25
Proof of virginity Deut. 2215-21
Raped girl should be killed Deut. 2222-29
Hijab I Cor. 113-6
Men dominate women I Cor. 113, I Peter 31-7, Eph. 522-24
Daughters are property Exo. 217
Women have no rights I Tim. 211-15, I Cor. 1434-36
Pedophilia Sanhedrin 52b, 54b, 55b, 69a, Kethuboth 11b, Yebamoth 60b

If you uphold hadith until your appointed term, the Fire will be your reward. The only unforgivable sin is idolatry.

Idolatry nullifies all works Surah 3965, 448, 4116, 12106, 3113, 4066
"And certainly, it has been revealed to you and to those before you Surely if you associate, your work would certainly come to naught and you would certainly be of the losers." Surah 3965

"Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and He forgives what is besides this to whom He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he indeed strays off into a remote error." Surah 4116

Peace.