Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Scheherezade,
Ayman, this makes a lot of sense but I'd like to know how it was determined what 'abstaining' (as it is translated) means/covers? How do we know it refers to fasting? And if it does, how do we know it's food AND water, since going without water all day--especially if you happen to be working out in the fields or outside in the scorching sun all day--can be quite unhealthy; people can become very dehydrated. As far I know, the following verses are the only ones that touch on this subject. Again, as with many other important topics, these verses are also vague/unclear and open to interpretation, not to mention scattered throughout the Qur'an. I can't help but wonder why God would not have made them a bit more specific/clear. These are your translations, taken from your first couple of posts.
2185. The full moon of scorching heat is when the reading was descended as a guidance for people and clarifications from the guidance and the criterion, so whomever witnesses the full-moon, let him abstain it. And whomever was sick or traveling so a count of other days. The God wants to facilitate and not make it hard on you. And so complete the count and magnify The God for what He guided you and perhaps you would be thankful.2187 clarifies what the fasting is about
- It has been made lawful for you during the night of abstinence to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. The god knows that you used to betray yourselves so he has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what the god has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of daybreak; then you shall complete the abstinence until the night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the institutions of obedience. These are the god?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that the god makes his revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.
The abstinence is prescribed only for those who can do it without difficulty. Those who can do it but with difficulty should substitute by feeding a poor person. It is not an obligatory thing to do.
If 2185 is translated correctly, and if 'witness' is indeed the word used, it becomes clear that one cannot witness a month; however, one can witness the moon. But how does one 'abstain' it? How does one abstain or even fast a moon?
There are two possible explanations.
In Arabic people regularly use expressions like "Omrat Ramadan". This doesn't mean that they will be going on the sectarian Omrat for the whole month that they call Ramadan. This simply means that the month of Ramadan is what marks this "Omrat" of theirs. Same thing with "abstain it". The scorching full-moon only marks the abstinence. How long (the complete count of a few days) and what the abstinence is about (food and water and sexual contact during the day) are given in other places around 2185. Had "abstain it" meant "abstain a month" then the info about how long given elsewhere would be redundant and unnecessary.
The other possible explanation is that the "it" (like the previous it) could be referring to the "abstinence that was decreed on you". So the passage is saying "abstain the abstinence that was decreed on you (not just any abstinence)".
Either of those explanations easily resolves any perceived logical issues. On the other hand, the interpretation of "shahr" as month creates several insurmountable logical absurdities
- Of course "witnessed a month" is illogical since one cannot witness a month as you said.
- It is also illogical since "witnessed" is in the perfect past tense. So logically this would imply that one would have to witness the month first and then go back in time and fast it.
- Just "being present" in a month is logically not enough since everyone is present but the passage is talking about "whomever amongst you" (meaning some amongst you did not witness) and therefore this is further confirmation that the passage is talking about witnessing the event of the scorching full moon.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace guest
have many breaks, and may Allah rests your souljazakallah for the ayat 105, it actually goes opposite to what you think ;D
however since you have not particularly been nice to me, i will not give you any hint, let us see if your one kilo mass of fat cells between your ears can figure this out for themselves...
though i doubt it will assuage you, you will again try and find something else to force your lunar calendar through, as you are a stubborn individual who is a creature of habits, and who make no effort to think for himself...
Peace,
Give me a break. The Quran clearly tells us to establish a LUNAR calendar otherwise we would be NON-COMPLIANT with many God's commandments.
105 - He is the One who rendered the sun radiant, and the moon a light, and He designed its phases that you may learn to count the years and to calculate. GOD did not create all this, except for a specific purpose. He explains the revelations for people who know.
Without a calendar you cannot count or calculate years.
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Conventional knowledge is death to our souls,
and it is not really ours. It is laid on.
Yet we keep saying we find "rest" in these "beliefs."We must become ignorant of what we have been taught
and be instead bewildered.-Rumi
WARNING Please beware of poets and the ignorant people who quote them. Poets are one of the key reasons why we have Greek Mythology (half human and half animal, thousands of gods, idol worship ?.). They are DISBLEIVER as evident from the following Quranic verses
26224 - As for the poets, they are followed only by the strayers.
3669 - What we taught him (the messenger) was not poetry, nor is he (a poet). This is but a formidable proof, and a profound Quran.
6941 - Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
??and it is not really ours? implies that we don?t have to believe in ONE GOD (disbeliever) and can commit bad deeds without any consequences i.e. no punishment since the soul is not ours.
Therefore, please ignore Rumi?s poetry and the Rumi lovers.
He is so WRONG.
Professor Nabster, why are you silent on this irrelevant and untruth post? Do you love Rumi?s nonsense poetry as well?
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Peace,
Peace guest
however since you have not particularly been nice to me, i will not give you any hint, let us see if your one kilo mass of fat cells between your ears can figure this out for themselves...
Thank you for the "NO HINT". Save IT for the disbelievers. Peace.
The worshipers of the Most Gracious are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace (2563). Peace, peace.
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Peace guest
there are so many wrong things in this world, i would not know where to start...
on this thread i focus on calendar...
rumi was astray and mentally sick, same with all sufis...
as you wish, no hint, and thank you for the label, it is mutual btw, peace to you too...
peace peaceThe worshipers of the Most Gracious are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace (2563). Peace, peace.
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WARNING Please beware of poets and the ignorant people who quote them. Poets are one of the key reasons why we have Greek Mythology (half human and half animal, thousands of gods, idol worship ?.). They are DISBLEIVER as evident from the following Quranic verses
26224 - As for the poets, they are followed only by the strayers.
3669 - What we taught him (the messenger) was not poetry, nor is he (a poet). This is but a formidable proof, and a profound Quran.
6941 - Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
??and it is not really ours? implies that we don?t have to believe in ONE GOD (disbeliever) and can commit bad deeds without any consequences i.e. no punishment since the soul is not ours.
Therefore, please ignore Rumi?s poetry and the Rumi lovers.
He is so WRONG.
Professor Nabster, why are you silent on this irrelevant and untruth post? Do you love Rumi?s nonsense poetry as well?
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-Thomas Jefferson
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"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-Thomas Jefferson
The slaves were denied education to keep them ignorant, do you prefer that over error. Error is correctable with education. You need to think and comprehend. You need time to do that.
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at last something we can agree on, (on top of foundational principles of monotheism that is...)
The slaves were denied education to keep them ignorant, do you prefer that over error.
Error is correctable with education. You need to think and comprehend. You need time to do that. -
This thread is so incredibly long...
Are there good arguments on inner pages that can be highlighted in a separate, shorter thread?
This thread waas realy realy very hot sun dont reopen it please but yes you can find some very good arguments in it. police
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Peace Sarah,
This thread is so incredibly long...
Are there good arguments on inner pages that can be highlighted in a separate, shorter thread?This thread is long as a result of attempts to refute the arguments on page 1 but instead unwillingly contributing to strengthening them and inadvertently creating the most detailed resource anywhere in the world on the issue of the timing according to the great reading. So the good arguments are on page 1 and if you can read between the lines then the rest is just the icing on the cake.
Peace,
Ayman
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seconded,
almost no one here has the time to go through 143 pages of material and figure out what's worth reading and what isn't.Selam Sarah
I followed it for months and feel there were loads of circular arguments. Someone will leave the discussion after hitting a brick wall and then another come back and start the same argument all over again. The fact is the argument could possibly be condenced to 10 pages, most of the pages are repeated discussions hence the circular argument bit. I personally feel Ayman is on to something here and would like for him to continue his study in this area, may Allah give him patients and good health to continue and produce his findings as an article for us to read and judge with an open mind.
Peace
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Peace Sarah,
This thread is long as a result of attempts to refute the arguments on page 1 but instead unwillingly contributing to strengthening them and inadvertently creating the most detailed resource anywhere in the world on the issue of the timing according to the great reading. So the good arguments are on page 1 and if you can read between the lines then the rest is just the icing on the cake.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace all
Ayman,
Have you had the time to update your article on ramadan timing, taking into consideration the other points raised in this forum?
Thanks,
Ramon
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ayman i just wrote down in detail all i wanted to say about how to know when the months are ,and the computer ate them all.and it is late ,tomorrow longday.so i am going to make this quick.
i cannot believe what happened the computer ate the most important thing i have written in my life.
any ways i willl do it again.
first of all let us agree on what a shaher is ,
yes every one tell you it is a month ,well it is not .
all we know is that a shaher is present twelve times in a year.
and it is both lunar and solar.very well.
ok the prophet was told to tell us in the quran about the ahillat ,we need to use them so we know time of haj.good
so what is a shaher. it is the ahillat,but hey wait a minute am i saying that a month is from one ahillah to another.like maybe 26 days no not at all.
a ahillat is the combination of the hillals that is between or around five days. when the moon dies and there are those nights with out the moon then the moon is born again.those nights are what we call a shaher.yes those nights with out a moon.
yes that is a shaher and i will show you why. is is like only about five days.
and we have twelve of them in one year.so that we know the years.
good so it starts with the deiing of the moon to the birth of a new one,now why did allah tell us in the verse in the quran that we should come the homes from the door and not from the back,for if we count the ahiilat from the birth of a new moon then one shaher would be like 26 days but if come from the door of the shaher it will be like only five days.
strange what makes me say that,ok give one more minute.see about ashhur el haram,what could there be that we know them.
bare with me ,so now we know that a shaher is not the moon cycle,but the cycle of the ahillat.great,so how do we know ashhur al haram,we know from quran they are four.in one year four of those shahers have less nights then the ussuall ashhur.yes it is strange they are the shahers that come after the shaher of ramadan.and i will tell you how we know it is ramadan ,give me another minute.
onlythose ashhur all haram are seperate from eachother they like have two ashhur between them that are regular ashhur.in ahshur all haram their nights are only four and the rest of the ashhur have five nights.
so ashhur all haram are about four days long each and they are four.they come in pairs,this is what the test shows and often they are devided by a pair of regular shahers not months dont make the mistake of thinking a shaher is month.
it is a shaher ,the days and nights where one cannot see the mooon between the ahillat.
then we need to know when is ramadan.for it is true that the ashhur all haram start after the shaher of ramadan and that is what i have noticed.so know how do we know that ramadan has started.
or it is the coming shaher .
the quran tells us that the shaher of ramadan is a shaher of bayinat that we will be signaled with many signs to know it is it.
so let us see,since it is only a five night and day shaher as all the other regular shahers then it must be evident during the days that come before it that will give us all those signs.that it will be clear that this month is different.
so let us see together what are those signs.
1-the rain will start to fall again after a long summer.ramadan
2 change of season.
3-plants beggin to grow again.
4-the days stop form getting bigger and they start to get smaller.
5-one big moon in the sky and i mean really big. the biggest you can find all year round.the collor is different too.
6-the sun is different during sun set even after it sets those collors are differnt and the sun have a round shape we can see,with out hurting our eyes.it is also the biggest sun we can ever see.
7- all this in a few days likesome twenty days.or twenty six and can be found together with in that time frame.
6-some call the moon the harvest moon for the fulll moon during that time is full of light,and one can see very clearly.
so we get all those signs and then we know that the time this time when the moon is not there any more for those comming few days it is called the shaher of ramadan.yes five days we are ordered to fast those days without a moon.
during those days is lalayet al qadr.remmember when the quran says,(wa kan kaba qawsayne aw adna)yes between those too cresents when there is no moon to light the night,and there is only darkness it is the shaher.
the thing about those ashhur el hurum and ramadan well they dont change seasons,yes mostly ramadan is in september or october,and the hurum ashhur basically come,in march april and october december.
but do the experiments your selfs dont take my word for it.
inshaalah allah will lead us with the quran and nothing else,every thing else is shurk and will result in many ikhtilaf.
brother please forgive me if i have mistaken or mislead you in any way.
Allah knows best.