There is No God.
-
I've been to your site and spent most of the day reading some of the articles found there. They are very thought provoking.
But as far as the subject of this thread, I do not know that I would agree with the "No God" translation for Allah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that by stating that there is no god but the "No God," you are implying that the there is a problem with associating any sort of deification to Allah. I can appreciate the effort since the idea of deities have been programed into our mythos and psyche to be conceptually limited in some way; be it through gender, capability or even philosophical traps. And of course Allah is without any limitation.
My issue is that such a redefinition causes more constriction than less. A god, gods, the godhead or other nomenclature have a universal meaning that spans the various cultures and their respective religions; that a god is an entity much greater than a human with supreme authority and control over all that is created by the gods' will. This universal understanding permeates throughout the various mythos that add varying details, details that will be the focus of whoever tries to ponder the concept of the "No God," which alludes (at least to me) to the "not God," or the "unGod."
I say it is more constricting because it attempts to define Allah, not just the word but the Almighty, and I doubt we have the faculties for such a feat.
The verses below indicate to me that Allah has no issue with calling Himself God.
Surely your God is One,
Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them and the Lord of the sun?s risings. -
Salaam Bedouin,
this is the problem, you say an entity, and therein lies the truth, Allah is not an entity.
You must conceptualise the idea, all realities are manifest, meaning created, instant to instant, without this constant re-invention nothing would exist.
Realities exist through the pure imaginative thought of a single consciousness, so we are simply the thought of Allah, this concept of God as the controlling entity is within this concept impossible, as Allah is an emanating force not an entity of any sort.
Consider it another way, your own thoughts are an extension of this process, a differential fractal order, are you the thought or is the thought you?
-
Peace Abdun Nur,
You asked ?I've been really considering your ideas concerning Allah, and I'm starting to have a similar outlook... What exactly do you believe Allah is, where is He, and where did He come from??
Allah is explained within the Qur?an both physically and conceptually, but if viewed through the contamination of the God personification can not be understood.
There are only two things in existence, the first is absolute pure nothingness, the second is a single consciousness, they exist in a state of dichotomy.
If you want to understand this in detail read
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/92/124/
Everything in existence is pure imaginative thought, this conscious thought manifest every reality instant to instant, without this constant re-invention nothing would remain, so when considering Allah, the manifest realities are only the conscious thoughts of the single consciousness, not in themselves the single consciousness, but as this consciousness is all that exists we perceive a physical truth to Allah when none can exist, consider your own mind, your thoughts are you, but not you.
That's interesting... I agree with certain parts, but I'm skeptical on others. But still, interesting ideas...
-
Salam,
as a muslim i feel it is my duty to warn about the dangers of wrong belief and a wrong belief is that Allah is not god but please don't just take my word for it i have the proof from the quran itself as my father was with in a similar belief and i found some ayats to comfirm my belief ie Allah is god and not visa versa ie that Allah isn't ,so straight to the pointfirst its mentioned in surah (nas) (114,ayat 3) that allah is Illahin-nas , god of the mankind ,
next one is in surah Nisaaa (women) (4 ayat 171) innamal-laahu Ilaahunw-Waahid Allah hu god one
and last but not least
Surah Nahl 16 (the bee ayat 22)
Ilaa-hukum Ilaahunw-waahid your god is one god..
no where can i find Allah saying in Quran that Allah isn't god but i can find in quran that allah is god remember Allahu Illah
i have seen some people on the web translate la illaha illah as no god only Allah... but this is denouncing that Allah is god and leads to unbelief ..in my understanding Illah is the same as a ,asma ulhusna ..
if you have something of a better understanding to this then myself please do so and explain vie quran to me if my understanding is incorrect as we as muslims are duty bound to remind each other to the truth vie quran and uphold the truth to one another ... and my intention here is not of an argumentative nature but that we can all learn from each other the correct path Inshallah and lastly please forgive me if i've in anyway translated or put incorrect transliteration as i've tryed my best to put forward the truth here from a quran that i'm borrowing and that i'm no expert in arabic...
may Allah guide us all to the siraatal-mustaqiim ie the straight way inshallah...
salaam -
Hello bro rafi,
Welcome?.
Well I am no expert in arabic but Allah does not really mean a god or something. The mainstream ?understanding? of la illaha illah has always been an illogical expression* for me. Calling allah a god is placing allah alongside the many gods, goddesses, godlings (their children) in an ever growing pantheon this world is witnessing. Allah has no counterpart and allah did not really leave us hanging as allah revealed some aspects of allah's self see Surah 59-22 to 24 , 2435. Allah also told us that to him belongs all the beautiful names which allah could be addressed by, so using god or the god may be incorrect.
Unbelief is rather if one does not believe in Allah at all.
Believe me you, all this talk about one god for all religions is only going to make it easier for power hungry people to rule all of us.
I am not telling you what to do but I believe if you read zoroastrian stuff you know where modern day mainstream muslims got the ideas about god and all the practices from. What many muslims are following now is simply a form of dualism. God vs Devil
Please forgive if I had wasted your time by telling you things that you may already know.
*No god but the god?No bus but the bus?.No book except the book..etc etc..One is both denying and accepting something at the same time. -
*No god but the god?No bus but the bus?.No book except the book..etc etc..One is both denying and accepting something at the same time.
The word 'but' means you are making an exception. So by saying 'there is no god but The God', The God is the exception to 'there is no god'.
In my opinion, there is one God who is The God but different people have different views on God depending on their personal beliefs. That doesn't mean that we all have different gods. -
Salaam,
If you consider the same phrase using the word ignorance, which I personally consider the concept of God to be, it makes an interesting view
No ignorance but the ignorance.
There is one ignorance that is the ignorance.
There is no ignorance. Except the ignorance.
Now using the correct translation with the word God exchanged
There is no ignorance. Except who is not ignorance.
There is no ignorance. But who is not ignorance.
It seems no matter the information, logic or reason presented the God delusion can not be removed, I will keep trying.
-
Salaam Bedouin,
this is the problem, you say an entity, and therein lies the truth, Allah is not an entity.
You must conceptualise the idea, all realities are manifest, meaning created, instant to instant, without this constant re-invention nothing would exist.
Realities exist through the pure imaginative thought of a single consciousness, so we are simply the thought of Allah, this concept of God as the controlling entity is within this concept impossible, as Allah is an emanating force not an entity of any sort.
Consider it another way, your own thoughts are an extension of this process, a differential fractal order, are you the thought or is the thought you?
How about the verses he gave? What do you say about those?
The verses below indicate to me that Allah has no issue with calling Himself God.
Surely your God is One,
Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them and the Lord of the sun?s risings. -
-
salam alaykum
The reason this discussion is so fuzzy and hard to grasp is because we are here in the realm of mysticism and metaphysics. At first it seems like a translational word choice problem between God and Allah. Then the discussion shifts into the problems related to any conception of the Deity by human minds. Let's go to the Tao Te Ching first.
The system that can be described is not al-deen al-haqq
The name that can be named is not al-ism al-haqqThis is a principle in the Universe like gravity and momentum. What can we do? We can either refer to the Deity as "the un-namable" or we can just agree on a convention and call it something convenient. One important point that Schuon makes in this regard is that a name invokes a doctrine. This means that using the word "God" invokes the deity of the Bible and its doctrine by default. While using the word "Allah" invokes the deity described by the Qur'an.
The universal recreation at every instant theory of Ibn 'Arabi is just one way of looking at things. It's not the Truth. It's a view. The Real Truth - "The Reality" - is indescribable and inconceivable by a finite mind. Our minds can only understand tiny fragments of the totality of what is. If you accept the fragments that have been sent down from the Creator, then you are orthodox. If you go off in search of your own direct fragmentary view, then you are esoteric.
Both ways are valid. However, the mystic has two dangers. On the one hand, he runs the risk of deceiving himself if he does not stay grounded in the orthodox teaching, if he loses the framework of an established tradition. On the other, he will quite surely be misunderstood by his fellows in the mainstream, possibly to the point of violent rejection.
I feel the distress for you brother Abdun, and it makes me sad, but learn from other mystics past and present. Your views are not going to be accepted by very many. This is not due to their ignorance! This is due to the nature of esoteric knowledge. There is no way I could convince even another mystic of what has been shown to me in altered states. Gnosis is experiential and not discursive.
-
Salaam,
as the work is completed, the verses will be posted,you'll have to have patience, it takes time to go through the Qur'an, however as you can see from a similar verse in Surah 114, these other verses you sight are simply mistranslations.
I look forward to your translation.
salam alaykum
The reason this discussion is so fuzzy and hard to grasp is because we are here in the realm of mysticism and metaphysics. At first it seems like a translational word choice problem between God and Allah. Then the discussion shifts into the problems related to any conception of the Deity by human minds. Let's go to the Tao Te Ching first.
The system that can be described is not al-deen al-haqq
The name that can be named is not al-ism al-haqqThis is a principle in the Universe like gravity and momentum. What can we do? We can either refer to the Deity as "the un-namable" or we can just agree on a convention and call it something convenient. One important point that Schuon makes in this regard is that a name invokes a doctrine. This means that using the word "God" invokes the deity of the Bible and its doctrine by default. While using the word "Allah" invokes the deity described by the Qur'an.
The universal recreation at every instant theory of Ibn 'Arabi is just one way of looking at things. It's not the Truth. It's a view. The Real Truth - "The Reality" - is indescribable and inconceivable by a finite mind. Our minds can only understand tiny fragments of the totality of what is. If you accept the fragments that have been sent down from the Creator, then you are orthodox. If you go off in search of your own direct fragmentary view, then you are esoteric.
Both ways are valid. However, the mystic has two dangers. On the one hand, he runs the risk of deceiving himself if he does not stay grounded in the orthodox teaching, if he loses the framework of an established tradition. On the other, he will quite surely be misunderstood by his fellows in the mainstream, possibly to the point of violent rejection.
I feel the distress for you brother Abdun, and it makes me sad, but learn from other mystics past and present. Your views are not going to be accepted by very many. This is not due to their ignorance! This is due to the nature of esoteric knowledge. There is no way I could convince even another mystic of what has been shown to me in altered states. Gnosis is experiential and not discursive.
One God, one creator, different perceptions.
-
Salaam,
Ibn Arabi, was correct, in fact when I wrote transfinite Consciousness I had never read anything that Ibn Arabi had written, or expressed, my view was based on evidence based science, the structure of reality is as Ibn Arabi had described in the middle of the 13th century, how he knew this make me ponder the loss of the Islamic knowledge through the removal of Islam from the world. It was a friend of mine who told me about Ibn Arabi have the same view.
The universe is built from differential fractal structures, that function upon magnitudes of scale, but remain a fractal of the system, if viewed from this perspective it all is very clear and everything flows, and has a reasoned pattern, one quiet easy to discern.
Now the Qur'an is being translated correctly on my website, what I have discovered through physics, is the reality of the Qur'an, if you wish to follow tradition Islam, the first requirement is the removal of reason.
-
Now the Qur'an is being translated correctly on my website, what I have discovered through physics, is the reality of the Qur'an, if you wish to follow tradition Islam, the first requirement is the removal of reason.
Who said that your translation is correct? I'm sure other translators say the same about their own translations.
-
Salaam nsws,
my perspective is not based on a single book, or the translation of that book even, but the physical evidence, that the Qur'an when correctly translated agrees with the physical evidence, is the only reason I believe the Qur'an is correct, if it didn't agree with the physical evidence it would not be the Qur'an.
Salaam Somebody,
if you read the thread you will see the answer to your question. you should additionally read 'God and Allah', on my website, to help in considering the true nature of Allah.
-
Salaam
Unbelief is rather if one does not believe in Allah at all.
i mentioned wrong belief not unbelief...
as a muslim i feel it is my duty to warn about the dangers of wrong belief
i also suspect nobody contemplated on those ayats i mentioned due to there own interpretation of the quran i.e via sufism
(٧
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur?an, or are there locks upon hearts? (4724)ok we all would agree that illah means god right????
then if so as i mentioned before in ayat surah Nisaaa (women) (4 ayat 171)
Allah says that hu is the god regardless of your beliefs, Allah says it look for yourself properly.. again for you to see in arabic(١
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist ? it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.Allah
(is) God
One.
Allah (is) God One.
I hope this clears up the God confusion
my perspective is not based on a single book, or the translation of that book even, but the physical evidence, that the Qur'an when correctly translated agrees with the physical evidence
what more evidence do you want that i have presented from surah 4 ayat 171 is more then enough proof unless you don't believe illah means God?
It is man that makes God a dirty word or corrupts its true meaning, and God is interpretered differently by different people .
God is language for all people ,you will also find God is also translated in every language...Now the Qur'an is being translated correctly on my website, what I have discovered through physics, is the reality of the Qur'an, if you wish to follow tradition Islam, the first requirement is the removal of reason.
Allah makes things easy to understand and remember, you don't have to be a mathematician , scientist or rocket scientist , a sufi ,a priest , a imam and so on so on to be able to learn the quran and get right translations
surah 54 (al-qamar) ayat 17(٧
And We have certainly made the Qur?an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?again
surah 54 (al-qamar) ayat 22
(٢
And We have certainly made the Qur?an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?and again
surah 54 (al-qamar) ayat 32
(٢
this ayat is repeated 3 times if not more throughout the quran...
god gave us a brain , intellect to think for ourselfs so we must use it..if anyone wants a online word for word translated from arabic to english Quran look
http//www.allahsquran.com/learn/
very easy..salaam
-
Hello....
Allah the word in question. Well for the record, if anyone gives a rat tail (IAGART), I for one did not derive at my ideas via Sufi means.The concept of one God is a seductive one (i believe someone will chide me for sayimg that IAGART). What is the point in that?
Okay back to subject proper...I mentioned this before and I mention it again. I am using the quran and the quran only. The creator addressed itself as Al Haqq, Al Rahman, etc etc but never Al-Ilah. Al-Ilah is so explicit! Why would not the creator address itself as just that...becoz it is not that!!! (pardon for me for using 'it' for the creator)...
Step outside the quran for a while, maybe whoever writing it down was trying to deceive us? The prophet/messenger/messenger of the covenant/scribe was living in the midst of jews and catholics who could have been very powerful and influential and could have injecting ideas..i am just thinking out loud! Just imagine,1400 years and look at the 'muslim world'. if the quran was easy to read and and not just easy to read but could be understood easily the world would be a better place. God is imaginary..You can challenge any atheist and they will show you their spaghetti monster....
Sorry for side tracking....peace !!!!