There is No God.
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Salaam,
as the work is completed, the verses will be posted,you'll have to have patience, it takes time to go through the Qur'an, however as you can see from a similar verse in Surah 114, these other verses you sight are simply mistranslations.
I look forward to your translation.
salam alaykum
The reason this discussion is so fuzzy and hard to grasp is because we are here in the realm of mysticism and metaphysics. At first it seems like a translational word choice problem between God and Allah. Then the discussion shifts into the problems related to any conception of the Deity by human minds. Let's go to the Tao Te Ching first.
The system that can be described is not al-deen al-haqq
The name that can be named is not al-ism al-haqqThis is a principle in the Universe like gravity and momentum. What can we do? We can either refer to the Deity as "the un-namable" or we can just agree on a convention and call it something convenient. One important point that Schuon makes in this regard is that a name invokes a doctrine. This means that using the word "God" invokes the deity of the Bible and its doctrine by default. While using the word "Allah" invokes the deity described by the Qur'an.
The universal recreation at every instant theory of Ibn 'Arabi is just one way of looking at things. It's not the Truth. It's a view. The Real Truth - "The Reality" - is indescribable and inconceivable by a finite mind. Our minds can only understand tiny fragments of the totality of what is. If you accept the fragments that have been sent down from the Creator, then you are orthodox. If you go off in search of your own direct fragmentary view, then you are esoteric.
Both ways are valid. However, the mystic has two dangers. On the one hand, he runs the risk of deceiving himself if he does not stay grounded in the orthodox teaching, if he loses the framework of an established tradition. On the other, he will quite surely be misunderstood by his fellows in the mainstream, possibly to the point of violent rejection.
I feel the distress for you brother Abdun, and it makes me sad, but learn from other mystics past and present. Your views are not going to be accepted by very many. This is not due to their ignorance! This is due to the nature of esoteric knowledge. There is no way I could convince even another mystic of what has been shown to me in altered states. Gnosis is experiential and not discursive.
One God, one creator, different perceptions.
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Salaam,
Ibn Arabi, was correct, in fact when I wrote transfinite Consciousness I had never read anything that Ibn Arabi had written, or expressed, my view was based on evidence based science, the structure of reality is as Ibn Arabi had described in the middle of the 13th century, how he knew this make me ponder the loss of the Islamic knowledge through the removal of Islam from the world. It was a friend of mine who told me about Ibn Arabi have the same view.
The universe is built from differential fractal structures, that function upon magnitudes of scale, but remain a fractal of the system, if viewed from this perspective it all is very clear and everything flows, and has a reasoned pattern, one quiet easy to discern.
Now the Qur'an is being translated correctly on my website, what I have discovered through physics, is the reality of the Qur'an, if you wish to follow tradition Islam, the first requirement is the removal of reason.
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Now the Qur'an is being translated correctly on my website, what I have discovered through physics, is the reality of the Qur'an, if you wish to follow tradition Islam, the first requirement is the removal of reason.
Who said that your translation is correct? I'm sure other translators say the same about their own translations.
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Salaam nsws,
my perspective is not based on a single book, or the translation of that book even, but the physical evidence, that the Qur'an when correctly translated agrees with the physical evidence, is the only reason I believe the Qur'an is correct, if it didn't agree with the physical evidence it would not be the Qur'an.
Salaam Somebody,
if you read the thread you will see the answer to your question. you should additionally read 'God and Allah', on my website, to help in considering the true nature of Allah.
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Salaam
Unbelief is rather if one does not believe in Allah at all.
i mentioned wrong belief not unbelief...
as a muslim i feel it is my duty to warn about the dangers of wrong belief
i also suspect nobody contemplated on those ayats i mentioned due to there own interpretation of the quran i.e via sufism
(٧
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur?an, or are there locks upon hearts? (4724)ok we all would agree that illah means god right????
then if so as i mentioned before in ayat surah Nisaaa (women) (4 ayat 171)
Allah says that hu is the god regardless of your beliefs, Allah says it look for yourself properly.. again for you to see in arabic(١
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist ? it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.Allah
(is) God
One.
Allah (is) God One.
I hope this clears up the God confusion
my perspective is not based on a single book, or the translation of that book even, but the physical evidence, that the Qur'an when correctly translated agrees with the physical evidence
what more evidence do you want that i have presented from surah 4 ayat 171 is more then enough proof unless you don't believe illah means God?
It is man that makes God a dirty word or corrupts its true meaning, and God is interpretered differently by different people .
God is language for all people ,you will also find God is also translated in every language...Now the Qur'an is being translated correctly on my website, what I have discovered through physics, is the reality of the Qur'an, if you wish to follow tradition Islam, the first requirement is the removal of reason.
Allah makes things easy to understand and remember, you don't have to be a mathematician , scientist or rocket scientist , a sufi ,a priest , a imam and so on so on to be able to learn the quran and get right translations
surah 54 (al-qamar) ayat 17(٧
And We have certainly made the Qur?an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?again
surah 54 (al-qamar) ayat 22
(٢
And We have certainly made the Qur?an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?and again
surah 54 (al-qamar) ayat 32
(٢
this ayat is repeated 3 times if not more throughout the quran...
god gave us a brain , intellect to think for ourselfs so we must use it..if anyone wants a online word for word translated from arabic to english Quran look
http//www.allahsquran.com/learn/
very easy..salaam
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Hello....
Allah the word in question. Well for the record, if anyone gives a rat tail (IAGART), I for one did not derive at my ideas via Sufi means.The concept of one God is a seductive one (i believe someone will chide me for sayimg that IAGART). What is the point in that?
Okay back to subject proper...I mentioned this before and I mention it again. I am using the quran and the quran only. The creator addressed itself as Al Haqq, Al Rahman, etc etc but never Al-Ilah. Al-Ilah is so explicit! Why would not the creator address itself as just that...becoz it is not that!!! (pardon for me for using 'it' for the creator)...
Step outside the quran for a while, maybe whoever writing it down was trying to deceive us? The prophet/messenger/messenger of the covenant/scribe was living in the midst of jews and catholics who could have been very powerful and influential and could have injecting ideas..i am just thinking out loud! Just imagine,1400 years and look at the 'muslim world'. if the quran was easy to read and and not just easy to read but could be understood easily the world would be a better place. God is imaginary..You can challenge any atheist and they will show you their spaghetti monster....
Sorry for side tracking....peace !!!! -
Salaam Somebody,
if you read the thread you will see the answer to your question. you should additionally read 'God and Allah', on my website, to help in considering the true nature of Allah.
Peace Abdun Nur,
I am actually reading this thread and your article, and trying to make sense of it, thus my questions.
I would like to keep our discussion purely in English language without injecting other words from other languages (ex "allah" to avoid confusion. It is the case for your article, it is hard to read because you are mixing Arabic and English, and causing confusion in the reader's mind and maybe yours also..
So please, let's keep it in English.
Again to my previous question What about the creator the initiator? Is he not the god, the true and real god?
Please answer this simple question with your own words and in short statements, no need to refer to lengthy articles. At worst, a simple yes or no would suffice. If you can?t, I would understand.
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Salaam Someone,
no a God was not the creator, if you want to understand Allah, you must examine the physical evidence, the universe functions in patterns, these repeat throughout creation, they are known as differential fractals, a fractal is a copy, where it is the same but the scale of the copy can alter, a differential fractal is copies that have tiny variations, like a snow flake, every one is the same yet unique.
So the universe is ordered in this method, Allah could be considered a dichotomy, again dichotomy is a fundamental aspect of all reality, an example of the organisation of Allah would be light, which is a dichotomy following the same organisation, as everything is a copy of a copy, a fractal order.
Light overwhelms the blackness, but always the blackness exists beneath the light, the light must always return to the blackness.
Another example would be sound, sound overwhelms the silence, but always the silence exists beneath the sound, the sound must always return to the silence.
Allah is the result of pure nothingness, in a state of dichotomy, just as light must overwhelm the blackness, Allah must manifest all reality instant to instant, this has been proved experimentally as being the case in addition.
So if we examine the idea of light again, it can be split into its component parts if sent through a prism, you get all the colours of the rainbow, the full spectrum of light.
When the full spectrum is combined, then you get the blinding white light, likewise Allah is the combination of all the attributes of Allah, if you call Allah the creator, it is but a single attribute, not the whole, for example.
Allah manifests all realities instant to instant through pure imaginative thought, we are the thought of Allah, this is not a God, Allah is reality itself.
These ideas are explained in greater detail in the essay's on my website, and should be clear, well to me they seem clear, but like you say it is alien to the minds of most so may take some grasping.
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Salaam Someone,
no a God was not the creator, if you want to understand Allah, you must examine the physical evidence, the universe functions in patterns, these repeat throughout creation, they are known as differential fractals, a fractal is a copy, where it is the same but the scale of the copy can alter, a differential fractal is copies that have tiny variations, like a snow flake, every one is the same yet unique.
So the universe is ordered in this method, Allah could be considered a dichotomy, again dichotomy is a fundamental aspect of all reality, an example of the organisation of Allah would be light, which is a dichotomy following the same organisation, as everything is a copy of a copy, a fractal order.
Light overwhelms the blackness, but always the blackness exists beneath the light, the light must always return to the blackness.
Another example would be sound, sound overwhelms the silence, but always the silence exists beneath the sound, the sound must always return to the silence.
Allah is the result of pure nothingness, in a state of dichotomy, just as light must overwhelm the blackness, Allah must manifest all reality instant to instant, this has been proved experimentally as being the case in addition.
So if we examine the idea of light again, it can be split into its component parts if sent through a prism, you get all the colours of the rainbow, the full spectrum of light.
When the full spectrum is combined, then you get the blinding white light, likewise Allah is the combination of all the attributes of Allah, if you call Allah the creator, it is but a single attribute, not the whole, for example.
Allah manifests all realities instant to instant through pure imaginative thought, we are the thought of Allah, this is not a God, Allah is reality itself.
These ideas are explained in greater detail in the essay's on my website, and should be clear, well to me they seem clear, but like you say it is alien to the minds of most so may take some grasping.
Peace Abdun Nur,
Again in your above reply, you kept using the Arabic word "Allah" in an English essay. Can you not translate "Allah" to English and use the translation to explain your position?
Please DO NOT use the word "ALLAH" in your explanation, or any Arabic word for that matter.
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Salaam (or in English the balance of the opposing forces),
The Arabic word is not one word. It actually consist of three words in this order. First word is =Allathee means "who is". This in writing is well know to be only written as or Al but this Al does not mean "the". It is followed by , Laa, meaning "not" and finally , illah, meaning the pagan Arab God or God in general. Hence the whole phrase would translated as "who is not god".
Le = no/denial/is not There is No.
ila = except/nothing but.
No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God)
Allah (Not God) is the perfect anti-name, it is neither a name, nor, not a name, it describes what is not in existence, a God, and what is in existence, not a God, as no name can be given to the emanating reality; not God; is the best we can achieve.
So this understood, simply exchange the word Allah for 'who is not God',and it will be pure english, I hope this will help you.
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So basicaly, for you, Allah = 'who is not God'.
Salaam ,
lets say your correct for one moment , how does your translation fit (with what i've quoted you saying) fit with ayat 171 surah 4 i.e where it says according to your translated would be
Allah(translated no god according to you) hu illah ,, what do you translate hu illah to?
please bear with me i'm trying to grasp your definition to the translation in this part of the quran, as this is my main basic of this debate as far
and lastly where do you get your arabic translations from outta curiosity?
Salaam -
sorry someone i'm quoting from you as i'm agreeing with you as to you his definition i.e Abdun Nur (Allah (Not God) the last post i made is directed to Abdun Nur,i'm asking him the translation... having browser problems or this site has bugs for me to sometimes re-edit
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Abdun Nur,
First question for you from my poor mind Who created us and the world and the sun and the moon........ ?
Second question If there is not a Creator (Allah=Who is not God) then who it's ?
Third question In the Qur'an in each sentence where Allah speaks to Muhammad, is it as if Muhammad himself speaks to him ? And for example, in some verse Angels speak to a prophet, then who is speaking to these prophets since Angels do not exist materially ?
Fourth question The Qur'an describes Angels with 2, 3, 4 wings it's a physicall or material description, what about it ?
Thanks
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... my view was based on evidence based science, the structure of reality is as Ibn Arabi had described in the middle of the 13th century, ...
... what I have discovered through physics, is the reality of the Qur'an ...What you are calling science is not real science, it's called speculation. Subatomic theoretical physics is not science. It's playing around with mathematical formulas. Science is only that which can be observed and measured in the natural world through repeatable experimentation. You need to read S.H. Nasr and his analysis of "modern science" which has lost connection with the Sacred, pretty much ever since Descartes.
I think you are basically trying to remove the personality or personhood from the divine order. You are thinking that to worship any god, even the one true God, is to lower the Transcendent One to the level of a personified entity. You are thinking that any object of worship (the definition of a "god" must be a personification. You wish to include no personal entities of a higher order in your ontology. I understand. I've been there, rejecting every relational deity except the Supreme Principle.
This is what Theravada Buddhism also seeks to do. However valid it may be in another system, this mode of understanding is incompatible with the Qur'an, which is fundamentally based on a personal relationship with your Lord. When you read it, the speech of Allah is not abstract at all; it's very personal. And so to deny Allah as the Person speaking, you must continue distorting the meaning of the Text to fit your model.
I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.
In other words, He is saying Only that I might be their god.
Peace.
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Salaam Abdulla-M,
what are you talking about, personal speech, you talk to your God all you want, don't let me disturb you.
Why are you writing this post, it has no point but to present your confusion, I'll waste a few minutes addressing it, but I am tired of wasting my time now.
If you look up the Arabic words, you'll discover they do not mean what you think they mean, Salat doesn't mean Prayer, I'bada doesn't mean worship.
When I said evidence based, within the thread, to clarify.
evidence - That which makes evident or manifest; that which
furnishes, or tends to furnish, proof; any mode of proof;
the ground of belief or judgement; as, the evidence of our
senses; evidence of the truth or falsehood of a statement.
My view of the science is nothing at all to do with your description, as you would have realised if you had ever read it, you speculate not I.
My expressed science is only that which can be observed and measured in the natural world through repeatable experimentation, you should investigate what I have explained, as evidently you do not understand, before condemning with conjecture and ignorance.
You wish to worship, I have no interest in changing your mind, knock yourself out, you should if you want to dissuade the other sky God worshipers from ever doubting their conviction of blind thoughtless faith in religious opinion, to answer these questions.
To what benefit or purpose would your God in the sky need your puja, your thoughtless worship, you repetitive ritual, why would even a sky God need your blind reverence and adoration, or is it just supplication to protect yourself from the anger of the sky God.
Why, if it is to supplicate a sky God, to prevent vengeful punishment, would a sky God need to punish for a lack of worship and adoration.
Has your sky God got emotional issues, it requires endless worship?
Explain why your sky God has created you, to what end, what is your ultimate purpose, what is your purpose after you die, more worship, adoration and blind observance of endless ritual?
I'bada does not mean worship. Sadly it is your Christianised version of Islam that is incompatible with the Qur'an, unfortunately you do not want to understand me, but simply present your religious confusion, and spread confusion.
I know you will answer none of the above questions, but attack me for stating them. As I wrote in my last post on another thread, the religious do not wish to understand, or form firm belief based on reason and evidence, they want pointless religion, of which I have no interest, so it seems pointless to explain something to a person who is deaf, blind and oblivious. Most don't want to understand, or to consider what I believe, if they do they can ask me on my website, it seems pointless posting further here. I explain something here, it is ignored and the thread continues in the same pointless pursuit of thoughtless religion observance, my observations are twisted and contorted.
You have made conclusions on my opinion of things, that is not my opinion, you should convert to Christianity with the views you have expressed, they have taken the personification of a sky God to the extreme, they worship and adore, they pray and revere.
Religion is a crime against humanity, the religious are the perpetrators.
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Peace, Abdun Nur. I think you are a Humanist. And I think you should convert to Buddhism.
That is not an attack. It is a suggestion. I will answer your questions without attacking you for stating them. I will answer you in the most rational and factual way. in-sha'allah
what are you talking about, personal speech, you talk to your God all you want, don't let me disturb you.
What I said was that the Qur'an is the personal speech of God/Allah to humankind. Abraham talked to his God, Moses talked to his God, and I have been commanded by my Lord to follow their example.
Appeal to your Lord beseeching and in private; ... Appeal to Him out of fear and expectation.
Through the Qur'an, Allah is talking back to us, answering questions, giving guidance and good news.
If you look up the Arabic words, you'll discover they do not mean what you think they mean, Salat doesn't mean Prayer, I'bada doesn't mean worship.
Where does one look up words? In a dictionary. So you place a dictionary above the Revelation itself? There is a science within the Qur'an whereby words are cross-defined within the text itself. You should seek to understand the language of the Qur'an by studying the Qur'an instead of studying dictionaries made by men.
My expressed science is only that which can be observed and measured in the natural world through repeatable experimentation, you should investigate what I have explained, as evidently you do not understand, before condemning with conjecture and ignorance.
I would love to see your experiment which proves that electrons blink in and out of existence or that matter is being recreated in every instant. Could you post a video? I would love to investigate your experiment.
You wish to worship, I have no interest in changing your mind, knock yourself out, you should if you want to dissuade the other sky God worshipers from ever doubting their conviction of blind thoughtless faith in religious opinion, to answer these questions.
Where did I ever say anything about the sky? I worship the One who made the sky. Worship - to exalt and adore, to revere and serve that which is perceived to be greater - is a fundamental aspect of the human being. In all epochs and cultures all over the planet, all humans will be worshipping something. It may be a car, a woman, a pharaoh, or a football team, but you will naturally be inclined to this innate behavior.
To what benefit or purpose would your God in the sky need your puja, your thoughtless worship, you repetitive ritual, why would even a sky God need your blind reverence and adoration, or is it just supplication to protect yourself from the anger of the sky God.
True believers do feel fear when they consider retribution of their Lord.
SAY I fear the torment of an awful day if I should disobey my Lord.
Of course, Allah does not "need" our worship, since He is beyond all need of the worlds, but He clearly enjoys it, since every living thing and angels too bow down in worship to their Creator.
Have they not considered how everything God has created has its shadows move from right to left, bowing down to God so they themselves feel of lessened importance? Whatever is in Heaven and whatever is on Earth bows down before God, whether they are animals or angels.
Why, if it is to supplicate a sky God, to prevent vengeful punishment, would a sky God need to punish for a lack of worship and adoration.
We just concluded that God/Allah has no needs. So your question must be reworded Why would God wish to punish for a lack of worship and adoration. The reason comes straight from the Qur'an. We were ordered to. See again. Therefore, a lack of worship means disobedience. In the system of Islam, obedience is rewarded and disobedience is punished. Therefore, a lack of worship is punished.
Has your sky God got emotional issues, it requires endless worship?
I don't believe the Almighty God has emotional issues. I can't tell you why, but according to the Qur'an, those near Him offer endless worship. Are you too proud to?
Even though they may act proud, those who are with your Lord still glorify Him night and day; they never weary of it.
Explain why your sky God has created you, to what end, what is your ultimate purpose, what is your purpose after you die, more worship, adoration and blind observance of endless ritual?
This life is a test for the Hereafter. In the end, we will return to our Lord. The ultimate purpose in this life is to conform our desires to the will of Allah and to purify our souls so that the Divine Qualities may be manifested through us. As for our purpose after we die, I don't know, will "purpose" even have any meaning for us then? Allah knows best.
unfortunately you do not want to understand me, but simply present your religious confusion, and spread confusion.
Now who's doing the attacking? I have given rational and scriptural responses to all of your points of contention. I have done this not for you only, since you are admittedly finished with this forum, but I have made this detailed reply for the benefit of other forum members, in-sha'allah to strengthen their worship and reduce their confusion. You have to admit, the very title of this thread, "There is No God" is a confusing title. If I didn't want to understand you, I would never have read it.
Religion is a crime against humanity, the religious are the perpetrators.
Which Humanist said that? Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Hitler? On the contrary, religion is the only thing that has restrained humanity from destroying itself through its violent self-serving insatiable greed.