Abortion is Murder, IF...
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Interesting... every time I read 4615 I was a bit confused, thinking - pregnancy is not 6 months... this makes perfect sense. Also it seems like the heartbeat is heard very easily/strongly around that time as well.... and the risk of miscarriage is much less at that point.
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Killing a baby because it's unborn and doesn't have a soul is like killing a man and saying - he would've died eventually.
bravo
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Peace
On 2314 - I had misplaced this quote and had been looking for it for ages! Thanks for providing it. I had been attempting to verify whether the bones develop first followed by the skin.
However, most embryology text books to not go into such chronological detail, but merely go through the development different systems (neurological, urogenital etc.).
However, something I found today may well show that the Quran was right
http//www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/development/prenataldevelopment.shtml.
I am not sure about your subtraction method yet, but the Quran is clear that after flesh has formed than the creation is now a creature. Once I get the subtraction method, it will be interesting to compare how the two dates are aligned (scientific knowledge v Quranic).
Roshan
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Brother Edip,
Is there any evidence that an unborn baby gaine personhood 3months prior to birth? I will say no.
And the merciful lord say, the god brought you from the womb of your mother while you do not know anything. Meaning we only become conscious after delivery.
Abortion therefore at any stage is not murder.
THINK ABOUT IT.ZUBAIRUS.
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Well, we know from the Qur'an that the baby develops in stages. It is not just given a soul from the moment it's a clot of blood.
We all used to be clots of blood. Imagine if any of us here were aborted. Or imagine if out of all the babies aborted one of them would've cured a deadly illness. OR if one of your soul mates were aborted a long time ago? - Bye bye love of your life -[ .
I'm not saying I would lose my mind and go berserk if someone was to have an abortion but it saddens me.
And if a person don't feel like having safe sex, and they end up pregnant, they should live with the consequences. Too bad you can't abort an STD, right .But of course my opinion isn't final. If for instance a 13-year old girl would become pregnant I guess she should have an abortion if the baby is really really tiny - although I don't see any reason for a 13-year old girl to do the nasty-nasty.
And considering one of earths many problems is overpopulation. But that's another issue - ppl shouldn't have too many babies.
Or if they find out that the baby in any way has any kind of problem or difference before birth - I mean you wouldn't want a child to go through life feeling not normal... or is it cruel of me to say so?Well that's only my personal opinion - every women with an unplanned pregnancy knows herself the best and whether she feels it's a good enough world to bring a child into or not.
Peace!
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And considering one of earths many problems is overpopulation. But that's another issue - ppl shouldn't have too many babies.
I think that is a myth spread by the elite! we only use like 1-3% of the land on earth. There is turly enough land and water/resources for all of Humanity.
Allah wouldnt place us on a small earth that cant even hold us. lol.
I was reading some articles saying how there is totally Enough Land and resources, its just that the 1% of Rich elite who rule the world and own all of it, want to tell you there is only a small amount, so that you will pay extra for it.
Its like, They purposly make it a scarce nesseseity in order to ensure a great need and extra pay from all the slaves. There is no such thing as Overpopulated.
Its just Badily managed. D -
Well, we know from the Qur'an that the baby develops in stages. It is not just given a soul from the moment it's a clot of blood.
Peace
The Arabic word you refer to actually seems to mean 'something that clings'. This is scientifically accurate from the histological point of view too.
Roshan
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So If we are now to say that Abortions are totally 100% Halal because technically they dont have a soul...
I question now... Why would Allah Allow us to do sothing that is totally unsafe for us?
For instance, if an Abortion is totally Halal...
Then, think about how they used to have abortions in the old days...They would stick a metal (hanger) like thing up there and kill the baby.
Which is very unsanatary and unsafe,So now in Modern times, We develope Machines to make Abortions Possible in the Cleanest and Safest ways.
But unfortunatly there are still a GREAT number of Risks involved even in these procedures.Could it be that the only reason why "you" (in general) think that an Abortion is Halal is because you want to make it Acceptible?
Not only making the Process Safer and more convienient, but also trying to use The Quran to support this Process.It would seem like Common Sense that in Muhammads Time, Abortion was NOT an Option and NOT a method Chosen.
So what makes it okay now? Technology?In the Quran Children are mentioned as being either A) Raised..... or B) Orphanes that need to be taken care of...
The other time was when it says"'Do not kill your children".
This would lead me to believe those are your two options...but thats just me.http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/1-4.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/2-4.jpg -
So If we are now to say that Abortions are totally 100% Halal because technically they dont have a soul...
I question now... Why would Allah Allow us to do sothing that is totally unsafe for us?
For instance, if an Abortion is totally Halal...
Then, think about how they used to have abortions in the old days...They would stick a metal (hanger) like thing up there and kill the baby.
Which is very unsanatary and unsafe,So now in Modern times, We develope Machines to make Abortions Possible in the Cleanest and Safest ways.
But unfortunatly there are still a GREAT number of Risks involved even in these procedures.Could it be that the only reason why "you" (in general) think that an Abortion is Halal is because you want to make it Acceptible?
Not only making the Process Safer and more convienient, but also trying to use The Quran to support this Process.It would seem like Common Sense that in Muhammads Time, Abortion was NOT an Option and NOT a method Chosen.
So what makes it okay now? Technology?In the Quran Children are mentioned as being either A) Raised..... or B) Orphanes that need to be taken care of...
The other time was when it says"'Do not kill your children".
This would lead me to believe those are your two options...but thats just me.http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/1-4.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/2-4.jpgUr funny. U made me laugh. But I see ur point however its a very complicated question. I don't thik the question of abortion is that simple. Remember mary wished death as she was conceiving Jesus partly due perhaps to the fear how her community will react to her.
?Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah." He said "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son. She said "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" He said "So (it will be) Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us' It is a matter (so) decreed." So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree She cried (in her anguish) "Ah! Would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree) "Grieve not! For thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; ?And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye.? (Quran 1916-26)
19.27-34. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" But she pointed to the babe. They said "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" He said "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
So its not that simple. The Quran didn't actually say that the reason was fear of reputation, but it had to be in her mind.
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Thanks Bigmo. D
Yeah, I know its complicated, its easy for me or any of us to say commentary on this issue, but it is nothing like actually being in the situation 1st hand.
inshallah None of us will ever have to be in a situation like this
So it is really hard to imagine what to do.I guess, I just feel strongly about it.
I have watched some videos on "Spitirual Sperm and Sex"
Apparently, Sperm is a very spiritual Liquid that contains Conciousness and Energy. A kind of ....(Allah forgive me if I am incorrect)..What some would call "Divine-like creative energy".Of course They are cells, and cells do die sometimes (which I fell bad about)...but it seems NO WHERE NEAR the importance of fusion.
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/spermm.gif
Sperm are living cells that actually have intelligence, they are living moving cells that Live and Die (organism).An Egg is also a living organism that lives and dies and goes through a cycle.
But when these to things CONNECT, they Fuse similair to mixing 2 chemicals thgeather and causing an explosion.
Instead of 1 insufficient Sperm, and 1 insufficient Egg...They combine in the womb and coalesce/Evolve into ONE Living Organism instead of 2 separate ones. This seems to be a very important point because an Egg will Eventually DIE after a couple Weeks(every month or so)and a Sperm will eventually Die also in a short matter of time...BUT when the TWO organisms Form into ONE, They usually Live for 9months, and then Live outside and grow until they Die at whatever age.
This too seems like a logical point to consiter.So, It would Seems to me anyways, that Once Fusion (Coalesceion of Sperm/egg) takes place, I wont try to kill it.
I mean If it is somekind of Dyer Emergancy, Then Perhaps...But Again...I will be the One explaining myself to Allah why I chose to do that.
Maybe Allah will Accept it Maybe He Wont (He is the best of Judges).I heard a Jahova Witness friend of mine say that in the Bible Cain was in trouble for Wasting his Sperm on the Ground. and God Said something Like..."There Are Cities, and Empires that Dwelll within you!" If so,m That is AMAZING that the Bible would know such Microscopic Details about the Millions of Sperm that are inside of the Liquid. pretty Amazing huh? I mean it would be impossible for the Ancient people to know that information. There were no such Microscopes that could show the detail like that..
Ill try to look for the exact verse...
Also Note, Its also pretty Funny that Buddhism, Mainstream Islam, and Most religions actually do not like Abortion.