There is No God.
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Hello..
The messenger/prophet was delivering the revelation to people who had already a religion and of course, a concept of a G/god or G/gods to go along with it. This is already well known among all of you.
During earlier times we had nations & national religions. All the gods had the same features as the people who created them. Nationalistic, cultural and racial pride dictated religions and the way the creator was represented.
He was reminding them that there is no such thing called god but rather a creator that does not require any forms of worship, adoration or trivialized into a craftwork that could be shaped and coloured by whims and fancies.
That is why the messenger/prophet* had to introduce himself (roughly) as someone sent from ?not a God? (Allah -Allathee La llah) to the people he went to. If you think about it, he was distinguishing himself from all who were propagating, promoting a concept called god that was already in existence. This could be the reason why the messenger/prophet was called a madman as his revelation could not sit well with those following the teachings of whatever religion they were born into or had chosen to follow.
Richard Dawkins many a time has mentioned ?we are all atheists but some go one God further? (something like that) as we do not agree on the concept of a god as established in each others? religions.(there are differences between atheists themselves). Even science has a concept of God. Einstein, Michio and few others would not blush mentioning ?god? in their ?sermons? and books.
So, G/god is truly an imaginary thing that is not consistent even among its believers. To some, God warps time, creates big bangs, sabotages the LHC, has a white son, tells people to form a nation out of the blue, take avatars, grants wishes like a genie** etc etc
Allah is consistent as allah is not a god. Allah is the creator nevertheless, of course.
The quran is a very important document as it is a saving grace. It can take on challenges from secular and religious communities, provided it has been correctly understood and we had not allowed any ?religious? and ?godlike? imaginary interpretations.*the human being sent to nations/tribes at various times.
**3436 3439 4219-more like laws of probability at work.I hope all are at peace and help each other out in any way that we can.
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Salaam Rajah,
thank you for your thoughtful explanation, there is an old truism I experience very often, If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think they'll hate you. So few people are willing to think, and I've found they hate any that do. It's a brave Muslim that will stand up to this hatred, you are a Muslim, a submitter to reason, Thank you again,
Abdun Nur
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I don't think God has emotional issues but you 'servant of light' seem to have (had). I have dedicated that past hour to follow this post, I do not agree with your idea that the word Allah means 'who is not god', I agree with the dictionary it means 'the God'. After that conclusion all else fails from my perspective.
You know what I see, a person who woke up without a God in his life, and chose to uphold his parents views to all ends who may have also been godless, it was a sixties thing, I know.
Ever contemplated on our physical attributes, not just your appearance I'm not asking you to go back in time and ask how we got here, just to appreciate the present, can you believe God?
You think what we see links to the mind, but it actually links with the body, the present moment, not the building blocks of chemistry, but the actual physics of existence. How do you define what you see, with language, this is the words of Kashif, whose name means the one who unveils in Arabic, linguistics is how we view the body. From nothing something to behold, the art of music, painting and writing. The light of the future, the good of the present, and the truth of the past. The knowledge of the future, the power of the now (a title of a book by Eckharte Tolle) and the wisdom of the past.
The angels know
the demon see
The humans learnThe elder tests if they knows everything
The youth asks do you see nothing
The child competes to learn the eternalThe Old
The New
The FinalMind
Body
SoulGod is the Omniscient
God is the Omnipotent
God is the OmnipresentPhilosophy
Linguistics
HistoryAllahu Alim
Allahu Qadir
Allahu Wasi'There is no other god besides God
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The Old
The New
The FinalMind
Body
SoulGod is the Omniscient
God is the Omnipotent
God is the OmnipresentPhilosophy
LinguisticsAsubmitter, I find this quite profound and I hope you will share more on the relationship of language and body - I see discourses as internalised /inscribed on the body, and these discourses then direct us in our lives (see my post on 'In the beginning (of what?" God.... I hope you will elaborate more on what you have written here.
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Salaam asubmitter,
I'm pleased for you, I hope you never regret the religious views you express, your post is correct in the first three words of the first paragraph, and insults and religious confusion mean nothing to me, I wish you well in the future, there is nothing more to say.
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If you would like to understand the foundation of Islam, and have a few minutes to spare to remove the Shirk of God, please have a read of the essay in the link below.
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/7/1/
Some interesting points to meditate on - thank you!
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light will destroy darkness (future)
good triumphs over evil (present)
truth prevailed over falsehood (past)I am glad your heart did not fill with hatred, and understand there is the natural ordinance to be non-violent, which you expressed in your words. This is your little seed and show it some diligence and it will nurture into something worthy of station or some worthy station, got my words all confused.
Have faith in future
Believe in the present
Devote to the pastthe angels know light from darkness
The demons see good vs evil
the human learns right from wrongThe hypocrisy of old age
The lies of youth
The ignorance of childrenHear O Israel! the Lord your God is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul, with all your strength.
In the words of Jesus, ' do not call me good, for only God is good."
"Anyone who denounces the devil, and believes in God, has grasped a strongest bond one that never breaks" (sura 2257)one love
one heart
one soulIs life a test- we are all part of experiments
Is life for living- we disregard the whole in favor of the particular
Is life for worshipping - to devote to temporality or to the eternalI call you to worship the Lord God alone, for the purpose of existence is to redeem our souls through the mathematically codified book, the Final scripture, and through the recital of al-fatiha during salat, which means contact, i.e. contact with God. And just as Adam was taught words to redeem himself, so to we have been given a mathematically codified words which are harmonious and help make us gain contact with the Supreme Being, Lord of the universe. There is mathematics in everything, it was Galileo who said 'God made the universe on mathematics'. The 360 degrees in a circle, a multiple of 12, the 12 signs of the zodiac, the 12 months in a year. 2280 the year of Day of Resurrection which is 19x120.
I hope this is not to show off, or to bring envy. I just think we should strive for a medium, learn the truth from the past, believe in the good of the present, and have faith in the light of the future. The knowledge of the sciences, the power of the arts, and the wisdom of the classics. This is the news I bring, but it was collectively understood but not in these words. The words are my own, by the will of God. Like for example Aaron died at the age 123, and Jacob at 147 (the digits add to 12) and Moses died at 120. And chapter titled Joseph, or sura Yusuf, is the 12th one.
salaam, these are treasures of wisdom, these books of God. As you can see none my writings are versed, nor numbered, these were just emails, to myself, which I internalised, and sometimes finding time on forums. Thanks and praise be to God, Knower of all secrets and declarations.
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Now you are showing your true colours, hiding behind the tiny opposite that you make as your rock which you stand upon, to be religious is to be confused according to you. (And) To use reason then you are among the elect, the enlightened minds. I agree that there is a time and place for everything, and for your ideas also, to you the Quran is confused, for us it is a beacon for the righteous. I know this may not be the time and place for my ideas, and I have set myself as an obstacle for your views. I will try not to use the argument that if so many people believe a certain notion then it will be correct, because the Quran also teaches, 'if you were to follow most people on this earth they will misguide you.' And I regard you as most people just like the rest, who have non-conformist attitudes and I think you endeavor is to misguide rather than set straight. Make crooked what is straight. I do not want to fall into the traps of mainstream Muslim who will argue their 1400 year traditions, but what you say comes out of the blue there is no back bone to it. Where is your proof, surely the thought must originate from somewhere, you cannot be the first to say this, and even if you were, how can you be sure your saying the truth.
There was a philosophical question which was answered as I or we (through the support of God and His angels), answered. A question which is usually posed to first year undergraduates. I was also asked this during one of our smoking pot nights, not in exact words but the question was 'could God create a rock He could not carry'. Only after 7 years i returned while writing the book on three to answer this question. What is it about the rock that will make it unbearable, we asked.
Its size
Its weight
Its pressureWe found that even if size was limitless, just as our hearing, and weight was infinite, just as our sight, and pressure was free just as our speech. Then God being the Omniscient, the Omnipotent, the Omnipresent, has shown that the answer to the question is not as hard as rock, that nothing last forever, but God has 3 attributes and the answer is it is as easy as 123, that God is Eternal.
"They are trying to extinguish the light of God with their mouths, but God insists on perfecting the light in spite of the disbelievers."
The Jews when they hear anything which removes their veil, they will say 'switch off the light', because they prefer dealings in the dark, and hide from the light. And when you ask them about light, they respond, 'what light?' and they look to the past, but not to the future. Of all the prophecies that have been fulfilled. Masha allah, may God guide them, whatever God wills.
These are proofs, the discovery of hidden secrets, the unveiling of the unseen and the unravelling of mysteries.
Try to think of the present moment, how things were synchronised and happened in the present moment, during the life of Jesus. Something I used to wonder about, the miracle s he brought and showed were a proof of a God. But we ask how did they happen in the present moment. Whereas the signs of the time of Moses, were in the future, they were miracles also, but are regarded as signs. Like those with hearing difficulties use sign language.
Sorry to have brought this on your thread, but it was predetermined, and it is where it fits, God willing.
Speed
Accuracy
PrecisionPhilosophy
Linguistics
History -
Salaam asubmitter,
you continue to insult me, my colours have never changed, I have never viewed Islam as a religion, and I most certainly have never stated the Qur'an is confused, I state the translations are not accurate, I have, and once again state you are exceedingly confused, but never the Qur'an.
You have presented no obstacle of any sort to anything I have stated, to simply say you do not agree with my view is no obstacle of any sort, your confusion is surfacing once more.
My proof is presented in detail on my website, please do not take anything I write or present as true, I advice every Muslim to investigate everything, every verse of the Qur'an must be proved to be true to each person, not accepted under the blanket of blind faith, which holds no value to anyone, and only propagates religious confusion.
You say, ?I know this may not be the time and place for my ideas, and I have set myself as an obstacle for your views.? If you indeed do have any ideas I would read them, but all you have presented so far is conjecture and religious dogma, no independent thought?
You believe I misguide?
Prove it!
Show the evidence against anything I state, evidence is not conjecture.
How can I be sure I am stating the truth you ask, if you took the time to read the essay's on my website you would see a full and clear picture, based on the physical nature and evidence of the universe.
You hold onto a concept of a personified God, a ridiculous Christian/Jewish model, but holding elements from other religions also, a lot of Zoroastrianism as well, your male God is the image of a man, who can hold a rock, is laughable, if that state of mind wasn't responsible for the mass murder and misery of the world it would be, the mind of a person in such a confused mental state will do the most appalling crimes in the name of their religion, and do.
I do not mind relevant points presented on this thread but the religious non-sense you spout having nothing at all to do with the subject is not conducive to the goal of investigating and improving understanding of the threads point.
Evidently you have religious fervour and believe you are a tool, of your personified God in the sky, does he talk with you all the time? If you are hearing voices you should get it checked out.
Abdun Nur
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There you go I pressed the button...I've clicked on the link to your website. In the meantime, you say Islam is not like the Biblical religions, what do you think of Dueteronomy 435, where it states 'you have been taught that the LORD alone is God - there is none besides Him."
Is this not the kalima, or the universal shahada. Insha'allah I' apologise if I insulted you, I was going along the lines of what has been discussed on this thread, insha allah I will see if I can make any sense of what you say in your website.
peace servant of light
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I'm sorry I had you mistaken as some godless atheist, saying Allah means allathee la illah. I cannot argue against you but find it quite plain to understand that when the shahada is la illaha illallah, No god except the god, or no god except who is not god. I know you do not mean nothing by it, but having come from the idea that Allah means the god, as Rashad Khalifa pointed out, and having accepted Rashad as a messenger I cannot disagree. We have to submit to the One, who initiated and designed and perfects His creation, we realise He controls everything. He is running everything. I only use the term god because it is the closest equivalent in English, but you are arguing that Allah and God are dissimilar,.I know in Hebrew He is referred to as El, or Elohim, and in aramaic alah, and arabic being the third semetic language has the name written as Allah. Are you arguing it would be the same in these languages also.
peace be upon you
You have a perspective but I find it off putting kinda enraging the title of this thread is 'there is no God'.
How do you explain the phenomena of the Arabic word Allah appearing among life, I witnessed a vegetable bearing His name when my family ran a shop, there many instances of this occurring breifly when I was a lot younger. Also the shape of hands if you look down onto them the way some people meditate where they join their thumbs with the fourth finger, and there is a 'tee' noise in the ear. If you look at it it spells Allah. But I do not know how allathee and al are similar, one means that which is and the other the, I do not think both can be categorised as one. I never seen al being used as allathee, when they want to use allathee they simply write it, they do not abbreviate it as al.
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The quran is a very important document as it is a saving grace. It can take on challenges from secular and religious communities, provided it has been correctly understood and we had not allowed any ?religious? and ?godlike? imaginary interpretations.
Salaam
ok you understand different translations to the quran like Abdun Nur then the mainstream Muslims , i'm wondering do you also use the system (lexicon) for translating like Abdun
Nur does???
also would you mind me asking you in your translation what Illah , illaha, illahun is translated to??? please translate them all if you wouldn't mind and i would also like you Abdun Nur to translate this as well if you don't mind ) , why i'm asking this is to see if your evidence fits to my understandings and verses and your evidence as well as i'm guessing Abdun Nur wants us all to go and research this is what i'm doing
thankyou for your time -
Salaam
?ok you understand different translations to the quran like Abdun Nur then the mainstream Muslims , i'm wondering do you also use the system (lexicon) for translating like Abdun Nur does???
-I read all the translations available to me but never really attempted to use the lexicon because I have not learnt to use it. I came across an Indonesian scholar?s ?No god? reading of the quran but parted ways with a student as their claim of muhamad being higher than allah appalled me.?also would you mind me asking you in your translation what Illah , illaha, illahun is translated to??? please translate them all if you wouldn't mind?
Illah- (the common one) a god(a concept of ultimate authority).
Ilaha
Ilahun
The rest coming soon. Good luck to me!! -
1651
And Allah has said Take not two gods, He is only one God; so of Me alone should you be afraid.
4384
And He it is Who is God in the heavens and God in the earth; and He is the Wise, the Knowing.
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Salaam thankyou Rajah and Abdun Nur for replying please bear with me my reply might be slow while i examine my evidences and both of your's..
also i'm looking at Abdun Nur's Lexicon, and the article on history of arabic grammar to get a better grasp of how this concept is conceived -
Salaam abdulraffi.
Corrections on my previous port on February 21, 2010, 012720 PM
Illah- but, except (ill? is a contraction of in-l?, literally if not)
Ilaha - my own understanding- a god (a concept conceived by a desperate need to believe in something supernatural). And of course the mainstream view -a god, deity, object of worship
Ilahun- a (single) god
WA ILAHU KUM ILAHUN WAHIDUL LA ILAHA ILLA HU WAR RAHMAN UR RAHEEM
2163 And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.If you look at the above sentence, you will notice some kind of contradiction with the ?No God? approach. The contradiction will cease to exist if one takes perspective into mind. Whoever* was saying this was approaching a people who had already a concept of god. Before I go on, Concepts are man made and Allah is not a concept it is reality. (The Hu in my humble opinion has mistranslated as ?He? when it should be actually ?It)?. The person* was giving an ultimatum, for he was playing a role of a warner.
He was trying to convince the folks that if there is a god at all, it should be one (or unique-?wahid?) and that one god is Allah. In my opinion, once the people were told about Allah not being a god but a source of energy and life and what not, they were expected to be convinced and follow through.2838 And Pharaoh said O commanders, I have not known of any god for you other than me**. Therefore, O Haamaan, fire-up the bricks and make for me a high platform, so perhaps I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is one of the liars.
Waqala firAAawnu ya ayyuha almalao ma AAalimtu lakum min ilahin ghayree faawqid lee ya hamanu AAala altteeni faijAAal lee sarhan laAAallee attaliAAu ila ilahi moosa wainnee laathunnuhu mina alkathibeenaThe above also may give perspectives. Here, Pharoah (firuan) was talking about Moses and his ?god? for Moses had never heard of Allah. The Pharoah could only think at this level when it came to what was Moses serving. Again, if allah is a god, at this point allah is equal to pharaoh** which is not .
The other well known abused verse is 1886 Until he reached the setting of the sun; he found it setting at a hot spring, and he found a people near it. ?.
This verse has been used to criticize the quran having the idea of the sun setting in a hot spring!The person* was making references to earlier ideas/concepts about god. That is why we find ?god of moses?, ?god of jesus? appearing in the quran and this was to correct the misconceptions.
For some reason, and I think not for the good of mankind, the quran seems to talk about things in random rather than in a sequential way.
You may not agree with what I said, it is okay. I thought about perspectives and wrote it down first and then I compared with all available literature.
Let us all help each other while we are here?
Peace.