There is No God.
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Now you are showing your true colours, hiding behind the tiny opposite that you make as your rock which you stand upon, to be religious is to be confused according to you. (And) To use reason then you are among the elect, the enlightened minds. I agree that there is a time and place for everything, and for your ideas also, to you the Quran is confused, for us it is a beacon for the righteous. I know this may not be the time and place for my ideas, and I have set myself as an obstacle for your views. I will try not to use the argument that if so many people believe a certain notion then it will be correct, because the Quran also teaches, 'if you were to follow most people on this earth they will misguide you.' And I regard you as most people just like the rest, who have non-conformist attitudes and I think you endeavor is to misguide rather than set straight. Make crooked what is straight. I do not want to fall into the traps of mainstream Muslim who will argue their 1400 year traditions, but what you say comes out of the blue there is no back bone to it. Where is your proof, surely the thought must originate from somewhere, you cannot be the first to say this, and even if you were, how can you be sure your saying the truth.
There was a philosophical question which was answered as I or we (through the support of God and His angels), answered. A question which is usually posed to first year undergraduates. I was also asked this during one of our smoking pot nights, not in exact words but the question was 'could God create a rock He could not carry'. Only after 7 years i returned while writing the book on three to answer this question. What is it about the rock that will make it unbearable, we asked.
Its size
Its weight
Its pressureWe found that even if size was limitless, just as our hearing, and weight was infinite, just as our sight, and pressure was free just as our speech. Then God being the Omniscient, the Omnipotent, the Omnipresent, has shown that the answer to the question is not as hard as rock, that nothing last forever, but God has 3 attributes and the answer is it is as easy as 123, that God is Eternal.
"They are trying to extinguish the light of God with their mouths, but God insists on perfecting the light in spite of the disbelievers."
The Jews when they hear anything which removes their veil, they will say 'switch off the light', because they prefer dealings in the dark, and hide from the light. And when you ask them about light, they respond, 'what light?' and they look to the past, but not to the future. Of all the prophecies that have been fulfilled. Masha allah, may God guide them, whatever God wills.
These are proofs, the discovery of hidden secrets, the unveiling of the unseen and the unravelling of mysteries.
Try to think of the present moment, how things were synchronised and happened in the present moment, during the life of Jesus. Something I used to wonder about, the miracle s he brought and showed were a proof of a God. But we ask how did they happen in the present moment. Whereas the signs of the time of Moses, were in the future, they were miracles also, but are regarded as signs. Like those with hearing difficulties use sign language.
Sorry to have brought this on your thread, but it was predetermined, and it is where it fits, God willing.
Speed
Accuracy
PrecisionPhilosophy
Linguistics
History -
Salaam asubmitter,
you continue to insult me, my colours have never changed, I have never viewed Islam as a religion, and I most certainly have never stated the Qur'an is confused, I state the translations are not accurate, I have, and once again state you are exceedingly confused, but never the Qur'an.
You have presented no obstacle of any sort to anything I have stated, to simply say you do not agree with my view is no obstacle of any sort, your confusion is surfacing once more.
My proof is presented in detail on my website, please do not take anything I write or present as true, I advice every Muslim to investigate everything, every verse of the Qur'an must be proved to be true to each person, not accepted under the blanket of blind faith, which holds no value to anyone, and only propagates religious confusion.
You say, ?I know this may not be the time and place for my ideas, and I have set myself as an obstacle for your views.? If you indeed do have any ideas I would read them, but all you have presented so far is conjecture and religious dogma, no independent thought?
You believe I misguide?
Prove it!
Show the evidence against anything I state, evidence is not conjecture.
How can I be sure I am stating the truth you ask, if you took the time to read the essay's on my website you would see a full and clear picture, based on the physical nature and evidence of the universe.
You hold onto a concept of a personified God, a ridiculous Christian/Jewish model, but holding elements from other religions also, a lot of Zoroastrianism as well, your male God is the image of a man, who can hold a rock, is laughable, if that state of mind wasn't responsible for the mass murder and misery of the world it would be, the mind of a person in such a confused mental state will do the most appalling crimes in the name of their religion, and do.
I do not mind relevant points presented on this thread but the religious non-sense you spout having nothing at all to do with the subject is not conducive to the goal of investigating and improving understanding of the threads point.
Evidently you have religious fervour and believe you are a tool, of your personified God in the sky, does he talk with you all the time? If you are hearing voices you should get it checked out.
Abdun Nur
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There you go I pressed the button...I've clicked on the link to your website. In the meantime, you say Islam is not like the Biblical religions, what do you think of Dueteronomy 435, where it states 'you have been taught that the LORD alone is God - there is none besides Him."
Is this not the kalima, or the universal shahada. Insha'allah I' apologise if I insulted you, I was going along the lines of what has been discussed on this thread, insha allah I will see if I can make any sense of what you say in your website.
peace servant of light
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I'm sorry I had you mistaken as some godless atheist, saying Allah means allathee la illah. I cannot argue against you but find it quite plain to understand that when the shahada is la illaha illallah, No god except the god, or no god except who is not god. I know you do not mean nothing by it, but having come from the idea that Allah means the god, as Rashad Khalifa pointed out, and having accepted Rashad as a messenger I cannot disagree. We have to submit to the One, who initiated and designed and perfects His creation, we realise He controls everything. He is running everything. I only use the term god because it is the closest equivalent in English, but you are arguing that Allah and God are dissimilar,.I know in Hebrew He is referred to as El, or Elohim, and in aramaic alah, and arabic being the third semetic language has the name written as Allah. Are you arguing it would be the same in these languages also.
peace be upon you
You have a perspective but I find it off putting kinda enraging the title of this thread is 'there is no God'.
How do you explain the phenomena of the Arabic word Allah appearing among life, I witnessed a vegetable bearing His name when my family ran a shop, there many instances of this occurring breifly when I was a lot younger. Also the shape of hands if you look down onto them the way some people meditate where they join their thumbs with the fourth finger, and there is a 'tee' noise in the ear. If you look at it it spells Allah. But I do not know how allathee and al are similar, one means that which is and the other the, I do not think both can be categorised as one. I never seen al being used as allathee, when they want to use allathee they simply write it, they do not abbreviate it as al.
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The quran is a very important document as it is a saving grace. It can take on challenges from secular and religious communities, provided it has been correctly understood and we had not allowed any ?religious? and ?godlike? imaginary interpretations.
Salaam
ok you understand different translations to the quran like Abdun Nur then the mainstream Muslims , i'm wondering do you also use the system (lexicon) for translating like Abdun
Nur does???
also would you mind me asking you in your translation what Illah , illaha, illahun is translated to??? please translate them all if you wouldn't mind and i would also like you Abdun Nur to translate this as well if you don't mind ) , why i'm asking this is to see if your evidence fits to my understandings and verses and your evidence as well as i'm guessing Abdun Nur wants us all to go and research this is what i'm doing
thankyou for your time -
Salaam
?ok you understand different translations to the quran like Abdun Nur then the mainstream Muslims , i'm wondering do you also use the system (lexicon) for translating like Abdun Nur does???
-I read all the translations available to me but never really attempted to use the lexicon because I have not learnt to use it. I came across an Indonesian scholar?s ?No god? reading of the quran but parted ways with a student as their claim of muhamad being higher than allah appalled me.?also would you mind me asking you in your translation what Illah , illaha, illahun is translated to??? please translate them all if you wouldn't mind?
Illah- (the common one) a god(a concept of ultimate authority).
Ilaha
Ilahun
The rest coming soon. Good luck to me!! -
1651
And Allah has said Take not two gods, He is only one God; so of Me alone should you be afraid.
4384
And He it is Who is God in the heavens and God in the earth; and He is the Wise, the Knowing.
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Salaam thankyou Rajah and Abdun Nur for replying please bear with me my reply might be slow while i examine my evidences and both of your's..
also i'm looking at Abdun Nur's Lexicon, and the article on history of arabic grammar to get a better grasp of how this concept is conceived -
Salaam abdulraffi.
Corrections on my previous port on February 21, 2010, 012720 PM
Illah- but, except (ill? is a contraction of in-l?, literally if not)
Ilaha - my own understanding- a god (a concept conceived by a desperate need to believe in something supernatural). And of course the mainstream view -a god, deity, object of worship
Ilahun- a (single) god
WA ILAHU KUM ILAHUN WAHIDUL LA ILAHA ILLA HU WAR RAHMAN UR RAHEEM
2163 And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.If you look at the above sentence, you will notice some kind of contradiction with the ?No God? approach. The contradiction will cease to exist if one takes perspective into mind. Whoever* was saying this was approaching a people who had already a concept of god. Before I go on, Concepts are man made and Allah is not a concept it is reality. (The Hu in my humble opinion has mistranslated as ?He? when it should be actually ?It)?. The person* was giving an ultimatum, for he was playing a role of a warner.
He was trying to convince the folks that if there is a god at all, it should be one (or unique-?wahid?) and that one god is Allah. In my opinion, once the people were told about Allah not being a god but a source of energy and life and what not, they were expected to be convinced and follow through.2838 And Pharaoh said O commanders, I have not known of any god for you other than me**. Therefore, O Haamaan, fire-up the bricks and make for me a high platform, so perhaps I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is one of the liars.
Waqala firAAawnu ya ayyuha almalao ma AAalimtu lakum min ilahin ghayree faawqid lee ya hamanu AAala altteeni faijAAal lee sarhan laAAallee attaliAAu ila ilahi moosa wainnee laathunnuhu mina alkathibeenaThe above also may give perspectives. Here, Pharoah (firuan) was talking about Moses and his ?god? for Moses had never heard of Allah. The Pharoah could only think at this level when it came to what was Moses serving. Again, if allah is a god, at this point allah is equal to pharaoh** which is not .
The other well known abused verse is 1886 Until he reached the setting of the sun; he found it setting at a hot spring, and he found a people near it. ?.
This verse has been used to criticize the quran having the idea of the sun setting in a hot spring!The person* was making references to earlier ideas/concepts about god. That is why we find ?god of moses?, ?god of jesus? appearing in the quran and this was to correct the misconceptions.
For some reason, and I think not for the good of mankind, the quran seems to talk about things in random rather than in a sequential way.
You may not agree with what I said, it is okay. I thought about perspectives and wrote it down first and then I compared with all available literature.
Let us all help each other while we are here?
Peace. -
Hello folks,
Here is a little something....2163 Wailahukum ilahun wahidun la ilaha illa huwa alrrahmanu alrraheemu
2163 And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
and finally a simplified equation
2163 And Your G is One G; there is no G Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.Peace...
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2163 And Your G is One G; there is no G Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Salaam
Rajah
even tho i and others may have some different opinions then yourself
please try show some respect for the quran, this isn't even funny translating like this you should be ashamed of yourself..
i thankyou for your previous posts and i will try to answer tommorrow inshallah -
Peace Rafi...
Nice to hear from you....'this isn't even funny translating like this you should be ashamed of yourself..'
No I am not ashamed of myself at all!..Those who should be are those who have translated the quran to please others...Big G small g..WTH? Those who should be ashamed... those who consider the (quranic) arabic to be holy language..those who buy stickers of Allah (of course the muhamad too) and treat it like talisman...
I found it rather funny...yes the way I put it, the 'G's and the final 'H'. It really looks likes an equation ...I don't expect it to be the funny for the rest..What I find goddamn* funny even much more is that 1400 yrs has passed since the 'appearance' of the quran,look at the 'muslim' world...It is not the translation, it is the understanding!!! of course, i only feel bad that some may take offense..that may hinder progress in the search for truth..My apologies if what i did might lead to that....I don't know if anyone really cares,I do not think the quran was written by a god or anything...It was written by men. It may have faults..proof? 2163..and a few more.The language is quite cryptic..subject matters all over the place... No one really speaks that language at home....BUT I respect the quran and the efforts of all those who made it a reality by preserving ideas form the past inspired by the creator..I believe after the council of nicea A.D. 325 some people put it (quran) together again..sorry no proof..just a thought...
Okay.enough of my rant...Remember, I did not make any direct attacks on anyone, I just did a number on a line from the quran.let the creator do a number on me if it wants to.that's it..anyone who wishes to do personal attacks on me..think twice..i can be the nasty ....
Okay back to subject proper, 2163 And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Come to think about it,The above line even looks like it is against the concept of monotheism which still requires a supernatural imaginary thing called god.Of course, we all have different opinions from each other-i respect that-whether anyone really cares about it or not!
Peace to all
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Salaam Elke,
I agree with you the second part of the Shahada is not really anything to do with the Shahada, Muhammad would never have said the second part, it would have been added afterwards, so it has no relevance in truth, as you point out, I could remove the reference to it altogether but it is the commonly recognised form.
If this was the only small point you found wrong, and we can agree on this also, you maybe interested in reading other concepts presented within the servant of the light.
Salaam Progressive1993,
the point you raise is well explained within the essay, did you not read the essay in full?
?Allah is really not a word. It is combination of words, or in English part of a sentence. The issue is how Arabic script was written. Common belief is that Arabic script is written as cursive.
The English language is Cursive, however, in English word separation is indicated by space. In contrast Arabic script can join words, but uses certain signs to indicate word separation. These are called Jezm and Sukoon
Gezm is used to indicated declinable words attached to other words.
Sukoon indicates a non Mutherick consonant in a non-declinable word.Words can be joined together as well. This joining is indicated by Teshdeed. This is the case with Allah.? Dr Badar Kanwar
I will explain why Allah is not God, as a shortened concept.
A God is an outside force, a personification that controls the universe, so requires outside of yourself worship, and demonstrates absolutely no physical evidence so requires blind faith, this God is the Christian, Jewish model, nothing to do with Islam.
Allah or not God emanates every atom of creation, from the inside out, this means you can only transform yourself from the inside out, so worshipping outside of yourself would be pointless, praying would be pointless, as Allah is closer than your jugular vein, there is no separation.
To understand the true nature of Allah, read ?Supreme Existence?, and ?Transfinite Consciousness?, posted on servant of the light.
Superb! I read this http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/7/1/
And in it you wrote
Some even believe themselves to be Gods, or equal to a god on this world. They should view it in this way, a man is a light bulb, as compared to a power station of infinite proportions, we cannot create the power, but simply shine from the power given to us from the power station, we cannot take more power than our capacity allows, if the power is removed we are in darkness, we have no function or purpose.
Check this out
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anyone who wishes to do personal attacks on me..think twice..i can be the nasty ....
Salaam
Rajah please take your threats elsewhere ,nobody's making personal attacks on you, i know my intentions here and that's to learn and try
distrubute the truth from what i can see i don't want to quarrel or wrangle over the quran as i know this is wrong and pointless, let alone argue with anybody...
why i said you should be ashamed allow me to elobrate i know from certain ayats i've seen that true believers when the hear the quran they sujuud and glorify Allah and ask for forgiveness
and from this knowledge I know they wouldn't be making jokes outta verses..I don't know if anyone really cares,I do not think the quran was written by a god or anything...It was written by men. It may have faults..proof? 2163..and a few more.The language is quite cryptic..subject matters all over the place... No one really speaks that language at home....BUT I respect the quran and the efforts of all those who made it a reality by preserving ideas form the past inspired by the creator..I believe after the council of nicea A.D. 325 some people put it (quran) together again..sorry no proof..just a thought...
ok so now the truth is shown ,
since you have doubts about Allah and the preservation of the quran read surah 159
i really don't know how we can discuss anything any further since everything i would present
that we could talk about would be from translations in wich you are in doubt over or believe men have written.
and i think this would be the same way with you too Abdun Nur after looking much at your site and understanding how you believe not in the translations that are presented from me ..
so to end it i will conclude that there no hard feelings to you both
the case belongs to Allah as best to know truth
to you both to your way is your way to mine is mine or to you your opinions and mine is mine..
i wish you both the best the vey best
Good day to you both )
Salaam
Abdul Raffi -
Hello rafi....
"Rajah please take your threats elsewhere ,nobody's making personal attacks on you,"
I was ever attacked over ramadhan issue..it was not pointed at you....Me make no threats...me refer to me response to some one who attacked...you would not care of course..."why i said you should be ashamed allow me to elobrate i know from certain ayats i've seen that true believers when the hear the quran they sujuud and glorify Allah and ask for forgiveness and from this knowledge I know they wouldn't be making jokes outta verses.."
If you see (And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He) in the bible or any other books would you be saying the same? I am not saying you would think differently from how you did....
I would not call '2163 And Your G is One G; there is no G Only I' a 'joke', maybe an observation presented with a little humour...."ok so now the truth is shown , since you have doubts about Allah and the preservation of the quran read surah 159"
The quran was preserved by men...period. look at 2163 once again...Men make mistakes...so what if it is a newsman,messenger etc? Allah is Al-Haqq. Honestly I do not have doubts about allah,why should I? maybe a little about the quran and those who are behind it...again 1400 years......blah blah..
Maybe quran has been perfectly preserved, just take a look at our own quran only forum..*100+ pages on fasting maybe a little less on pilgrimage and 'prayer'.....The quran was preserved for what? For this *?"i really don't know how we can discuss anything any further since everything i would present that we could talk about would be from translations in which you are in doubt over or believe men have written"
My dear rafi, You don have to post anything in response to my posts if you do not wish to,right?.look at the rest of the many 4 star 5 star forum members who just did that-(you would probably say you don care.....) .But if you got anything you would like to share out of your own understanding, I would still want to hear it...esp about ila..Well if you want to ...maybe you want to visit the links....
Again I am not arguing,just defending my views and person....
Peacehttp//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/shariah/ilah.htm
http//whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14935
http//firebasefreedom.us.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=16960&pid=109236&st=0#entry109236 -
Salaam OPF,
thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed reading it, Allah is the transfinite consciousness, the only consciousness to exist, or could exists if you understand the structure, have you read the essay 'Transfinite consciousness', it explains the structure and the Islamic concept of hell, not the adopted Christian concept, it also explains why you should not be in hell for a single second, due to circular time, I'm using the word hell only for reference.
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There's only one God, and that's Allah (SWT). Allah is referred to as ALLAH (meaning God) in the Qur'an.