There is No God.
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I'm sorry I had you mistaken as some godless atheist, saying Allah means allathee la illah. I cannot argue against you but find it quite plain to understand that when the shahada is la illaha illallah, No god except the god, or no god except who is not god. I know you do not mean nothing by it, but having come from the idea that Allah means the god, as Rashad Khalifa pointed out, and having accepted Rashad as a messenger I cannot disagree. We have to submit to the One, who initiated and designed and perfects His creation, we realise He controls everything. He is running everything. I only use the term god because it is the closest equivalent in English, but you are arguing that Allah and God are dissimilar,.I know in Hebrew He is referred to as El, or Elohim, and in aramaic alah, and arabic being the third semetic language has the name written as Allah. Are you arguing it would be the same in these languages also.
peace be upon you
You have a perspective but I find it off putting kinda enraging the title of this thread is 'there is no God'.
How do you explain the phenomena of the Arabic word Allah appearing among life, I witnessed a vegetable bearing His name when my family ran a shop, there many instances of this occurring breifly when I was a lot younger. Also the shape of hands if you look down onto them the way some people meditate where they join their thumbs with the fourth finger, and there is a 'tee' noise in the ear. If you look at it it spells Allah. But I do not know how allathee and al are similar, one means that which is and the other the, I do not think both can be categorised as one. I never seen al being used as allathee, when they want to use allathee they simply write it, they do not abbreviate it as al.
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The quran is a very important document as it is a saving grace. It can take on challenges from secular and religious communities, provided it has been correctly understood and we had not allowed any ?religious? and ?godlike? imaginary interpretations.
Salaam
ok you understand different translations to the quran like Abdun Nur then the mainstream Muslims , i'm wondering do you also use the system (lexicon) for translating like Abdun
Nur does???
also would you mind me asking you in your translation what Illah , illaha, illahun is translated to??? please translate them all if you wouldn't mind and i would also like you Abdun Nur to translate this as well if you don't mind ) , why i'm asking this is to see if your evidence fits to my understandings and verses and your evidence as well as i'm guessing Abdun Nur wants us all to go and research this is what i'm doing
thankyou for your time -
Salaam
?ok you understand different translations to the quran like Abdun Nur then the mainstream Muslims , i'm wondering do you also use the system (lexicon) for translating like Abdun Nur does???
-I read all the translations available to me but never really attempted to use the lexicon because I have not learnt to use it. I came across an Indonesian scholar?s ?No god? reading of the quran but parted ways with a student as their claim of muhamad being higher than allah appalled me.?also would you mind me asking you in your translation what Illah , illaha, illahun is translated to??? please translate them all if you wouldn't mind?
Illah- (the common one) a god(a concept of ultimate authority).
Ilaha
Ilahun
The rest coming soon. Good luck to me!! -
1651
And Allah has said Take not two gods, He is only one God; so of Me alone should you be afraid.
4384
And He it is Who is God in the heavens and God in the earth; and He is the Wise, the Knowing.
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Salaam thankyou Rajah and Abdun Nur for replying please bear with me my reply might be slow while i examine my evidences and both of your's..
also i'm looking at Abdun Nur's Lexicon, and the article on history of arabic grammar to get a better grasp of how this concept is conceived -
Salaam abdulraffi.
Corrections on my previous port on February 21, 2010, 012720 PM
Illah- but, except (ill? is a contraction of in-l?, literally if not)
Ilaha - my own understanding- a god (a concept conceived by a desperate need to believe in something supernatural). And of course the mainstream view -a god, deity, object of worship
Ilahun- a (single) god
WA ILAHU KUM ILAHUN WAHIDUL LA ILAHA ILLA HU WAR RAHMAN UR RAHEEM
2163 And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.If you look at the above sentence, you will notice some kind of contradiction with the ?No God? approach. The contradiction will cease to exist if one takes perspective into mind. Whoever* was saying this was approaching a people who had already a concept of god. Before I go on, Concepts are man made and Allah is not a concept it is reality. (The Hu in my humble opinion has mistranslated as ?He? when it should be actually ?It)?. The person* was giving an ultimatum, for he was playing a role of a warner.
He was trying to convince the folks that if there is a god at all, it should be one (or unique-?wahid?) and that one god is Allah. In my opinion, once the people were told about Allah not being a god but a source of energy and life and what not, they were expected to be convinced and follow through.2838 And Pharaoh said O commanders, I have not known of any god for you other than me**. Therefore, O Haamaan, fire-up the bricks and make for me a high platform, so perhaps I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is one of the liars.
Waqala firAAawnu ya ayyuha almalao ma AAalimtu lakum min ilahin ghayree faawqid lee ya hamanu AAala altteeni faijAAal lee sarhan laAAallee attaliAAu ila ilahi moosa wainnee laathunnuhu mina alkathibeenaThe above also may give perspectives. Here, Pharoah (firuan) was talking about Moses and his ?god? for Moses had never heard of Allah. The Pharoah could only think at this level when it came to what was Moses serving. Again, if allah is a god, at this point allah is equal to pharaoh** which is not .
The other well known abused verse is 1886 Until he reached the setting of the sun; he found it setting at a hot spring, and he found a people near it. ?.
This verse has been used to criticize the quran having the idea of the sun setting in a hot spring!The person* was making references to earlier ideas/concepts about god. That is why we find ?god of moses?, ?god of jesus? appearing in the quran and this was to correct the misconceptions.
For some reason, and I think not for the good of mankind, the quran seems to talk about things in random rather than in a sequential way.
You may not agree with what I said, it is okay. I thought about perspectives and wrote it down first and then I compared with all available literature.
Let us all help each other while we are here?
Peace. -
Hello folks,
Here is a little something....2163 Wailahukum ilahun wahidun la ilaha illa huwa alrrahmanu alrraheemu
2163 And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
and finally a simplified equation
2163 And Your G is One G; there is no G Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.Peace...
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2163 And Your G is One G; there is no G Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Salaam
Rajah
even tho i and others may have some different opinions then yourself
please try show some respect for the quran, this isn't even funny translating like this you should be ashamed of yourself..
i thankyou for your previous posts and i will try to answer tommorrow inshallah -
Peace Rafi...
Nice to hear from you....'this isn't even funny translating like this you should be ashamed of yourself..'
No I am not ashamed of myself at all!..Those who should be are those who have translated the quran to please others...Big G small g..WTH? Those who should be ashamed... those who consider the (quranic) arabic to be holy language..those who buy stickers of Allah (of course the muhamad too) and treat it like talisman...
I found it rather funny...yes the way I put it, the 'G's and the final 'H'. It really looks likes an equation ...I don't expect it to be the funny for the rest..What I find goddamn* funny even much more is that 1400 yrs has passed since the 'appearance' of the quran,look at the 'muslim' world...It is not the translation, it is the understanding!!! of course, i only feel bad that some may take offense..that may hinder progress in the search for truth..My apologies if what i did might lead to that....I don't know if anyone really cares,I do not think the quran was written by a god or anything...It was written by men. It may have faults..proof? 2163..and a few more.The language is quite cryptic..subject matters all over the place... No one really speaks that language at home....BUT I respect the quran and the efforts of all those who made it a reality by preserving ideas form the past inspired by the creator..I believe after the council of nicea A.D. 325 some people put it (quran) together again..sorry no proof..just a thought...
Okay.enough of my rant...Remember, I did not make any direct attacks on anyone, I just did a number on a line from the quran.let the creator do a number on me if it wants to.that's it..anyone who wishes to do personal attacks on me..think twice..i can be the nasty ....
Okay back to subject proper, 2163 And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Come to think about it,The above line even looks like it is against the concept of monotheism which still requires a supernatural imaginary thing called god.Of course, we all have different opinions from each other-i respect that-whether anyone really cares about it or not!
Peace to all
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Salaam Elke,
I agree with you the second part of the Shahada is not really anything to do with the Shahada, Muhammad would never have said the second part, it would have been added afterwards, so it has no relevance in truth, as you point out, I could remove the reference to it altogether but it is the commonly recognised form.
If this was the only small point you found wrong, and we can agree on this also, you maybe interested in reading other concepts presented within the servant of the light.
Salaam Progressive1993,
the point you raise is well explained within the essay, did you not read the essay in full?
?Allah is really not a word. It is combination of words, or in English part of a sentence. The issue is how Arabic script was written. Common belief is that Arabic script is written as cursive.
The English language is Cursive, however, in English word separation is indicated by space. In contrast Arabic script can join words, but uses certain signs to indicate word separation. These are called Jezm and Sukoon
Gezm is used to indicated declinable words attached to other words.
Sukoon indicates a non Mutherick consonant in a non-declinable word.Words can be joined together as well. This joining is indicated by Teshdeed. This is the case with Allah.? Dr Badar Kanwar
I will explain why Allah is not God, as a shortened concept.
A God is an outside force, a personification that controls the universe, so requires outside of yourself worship, and demonstrates absolutely no physical evidence so requires blind faith, this God is the Christian, Jewish model, nothing to do with Islam.
Allah or not God emanates every atom of creation, from the inside out, this means you can only transform yourself from the inside out, so worshipping outside of yourself would be pointless, praying would be pointless, as Allah is closer than your jugular vein, there is no separation.
To understand the true nature of Allah, read ?Supreme Existence?, and ?Transfinite Consciousness?, posted on servant of the light.
Superb! I read this http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/7/1/
And in it you wrote
Some even believe themselves to be Gods, or equal to a god on this world. They should view it in this way, a man is a light bulb, as compared to a power station of infinite proportions, we cannot create the power, but simply shine from the power given to us from the power station, we cannot take more power than our capacity allows, if the power is removed we are in darkness, we have no function or purpose.
Check this out
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anyone who wishes to do personal attacks on me..think twice..i can be the nasty ....
Salaam
Rajah please take your threats elsewhere ,nobody's making personal attacks on you, i know my intentions here and that's to learn and try
distrubute the truth from what i can see i don't want to quarrel or wrangle over the quran as i know this is wrong and pointless, let alone argue with anybody...
why i said you should be ashamed allow me to elobrate i know from certain ayats i've seen that true believers when the hear the quran they sujuud and glorify Allah and ask for forgiveness
and from this knowledge I know they wouldn't be making jokes outta verses..I don't know if anyone really cares,I do not think the quran was written by a god or anything...It was written by men. It may have faults..proof? 2163..and a few more.The language is quite cryptic..subject matters all over the place... No one really speaks that language at home....BUT I respect the quran and the efforts of all those who made it a reality by preserving ideas form the past inspired by the creator..I believe after the council of nicea A.D. 325 some people put it (quran) together again..sorry no proof..just a thought...
ok so now the truth is shown ,
since you have doubts about Allah and the preservation of the quran read surah 159
i really don't know how we can discuss anything any further since everything i would present
that we could talk about would be from translations in wich you are in doubt over or believe men have written.
and i think this would be the same way with you too Abdun Nur after looking much at your site and understanding how you believe not in the translations that are presented from me ..
so to end it i will conclude that there no hard feelings to you both
the case belongs to Allah as best to know truth
to you both to your way is your way to mine is mine or to you your opinions and mine is mine..
i wish you both the best the vey best
Good day to you both )
Salaam
Abdul Raffi -
Hello rafi....
"Rajah please take your threats elsewhere ,nobody's making personal attacks on you,"
I was ever attacked over ramadhan issue..it was not pointed at you....Me make no threats...me refer to me response to some one who attacked...you would not care of course..."why i said you should be ashamed allow me to elobrate i know from certain ayats i've seen that true believers when the hear the quran they sujuud and glorify Allah and ask for forgiveness and from this knowledge I know they wouldn't be making jokes outta verses.."
If you see (And Your God is One God; there is no god Only He) in the bible or any other books would you be saying the same? I am not saying you would think differently from how you did....
I would not call '2163 And Your G is One G; there is no G Only I' a 'joke', maybe an observation presented with a little humour...."ok so now the truth is shown , since you have doubts about Allah and the preservation of the quran read surah 159"
The quran was preserved by men...period. look at 2163 once again...Men make mistakes...so what if it is a newsman,messenger etc? Allah is Al-Haqq. Honestly I do not have doubts about allah,why should I? maybe a little about the quran and those who are behind it...again 1400 years......blah blah..
Maybe quran has been perfectly preserved, just take a look at our own quran only forum..*100+ pages on fasting maybe a little less on pilgrimage and 'prayer'.....The quran was preserved for what? For this *?"i really don't know how we can discuss anything any further since everything i would present that we could talk about would be from translations in which you are in doubt over or believe men have written"
My dear rafi, You don have to post anything in response to my posts if you do not wish to,right?.look at the rest of the many 4 star 5 star forum members who just did that-(you would probably say you don care.....) .But if you got anything you would like to share out of your own understanding, I would still want to hear it...esp about ila..Well if you want to ...maybe you want to visit the links....
Again I am not arguing,just defending my views and person....
Peacehttp//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/shariah/ilah.htm
http//whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14935
http//firebasefreedom.us.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=16960&pid=109236&st=0#entry109236 -
Salaam OPF,
thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed reading it, Allah is the transfinite consciousness, the only consciousness to exist, or could exists if you understand the structure, have you read the essay 'Transfinite consciousness', it explains the structure and the Islamic concept of hell, not the adopted Christian concept, it also explains why you should not be in hell for a single second, due to circular time, I'm using the word hell only for reference.
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There's only one God, and that's Allah (SWT). Allah is referred to as ALLAH (meaning God) in the Qur'an.
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Salaam OurIslamic.COM,
you are required within Islam to apply reason and investigate the truth, both of which you have failed to do within your statement, you provide no evidence to support you contention, you present no evidence to stand against my fully explained view showing any flaws within the argument, you have simply stated conjecture, you demonstrate the reason that almost no Muslims now exist in the modern world, they follow blindly in traditions and conjecture, they never investigate nor prove anything to themselves. It states within the Qur'an you must prove everything to yourself as true, through investigation and the examination of evidence, even the verses of the Qur'an itself.
Present you proof!
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Peace Abdun Nur,
Allah is the transfinite consciousness, the only consciousness to exist, or could exists if you understand the structure, have you read the essay 'Transfinite consciousness', it explains the structure and the Islamic concept of hell, not the adopted Christian concept, it also explains why you should not be in hell for a single second, due to circular time, I'm using the word hell only for reference.
What do you think about "Allah", or this transfinite consciousness, being manifested within a physical body, as in the form of a Man? In other words, can "Allah" be anthropomorphic? If Islaam is the system taught by all the ancient prophets, and it is in fact the true nature of Man, then why did all the ancient cultures depict their God as a Man, an anthropomorphic deity?
In order for your idea of Allah to be correct, it has to match the ancient depiction of Allah as presented by the prophets, since Muhammad ibn Abdullah taught the same message they taught. And, according to the Qur'aan, this doctrine systematically generated itself as a religion/system since the origin of humanity. Therefore, theoretically, the prophet Muhammad taught the same thing as the ancient Akkadians, Sumerians, Egyptians, Ethiopians, etc. Yet, in their ancient cultural theologies, they ALL presented their supreme god as anthropomorphic, in the body of a Man. Even the ancient Jewish (Hebrew) writings depict Allah, or "Eloh", as a Divine presence in a physical body, having hands, arms, feet, eyes, a face, ears, a nose, a back, thighs, and hair, even to the point of depicting Him as sitting in a seat/chair/throne. We interpret these factors today as being figurative and metaphorical, but the ancient people interpreted these ideas very literally. In fact, even traditional (orthodox) Islaamic ideas implied this concept in the past. For example, according to the hadiyths, there were 360 idols in the Ka'aba in Mekka, and when Muhammad (re)established Islaam in Arabia, he reportedly destroyed "359" of them and said, "There is no god save Allah," implying that the one remaining idol was a depiction of the True God. Some Islaamic scholars said that the remaining idol was "molten" to become the black stone that Muslims revere during the hajj...
With all this said, do you think it's possible that "Allah" is a reality that can be composed in a physical form, i.e. a man's body? What does the Bible mean it says that man was made in the 'image and likeness' of Allah, and why does the Qur'aan call man Allah's "khalifa"/successor?
Peace!
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Salaam Ahmed Bilal,
what we perceive as physical is only perceived, as it is manifest thought, could you physically exist within your own thoughts, no.
A khalifa is an inheritor not a successor, we are each one of us an inheritor of life and this world.
The Christian bible, the Jewish torah, as hadith are pure conjecture and have absolutely no value of any sort, and should be disregarded completely.
The Sentence "Laa ilaaha illal Lahoo". Meanings " Laa- Nor there is, neither shall be, ilaaha= a deity for adoration and worship, illa= except or save, allahoo= One who nor is, neither shall be, a deity for worship and adoration.
Within an English sentence it would read
Neither there is, nor (ever) shall there be a deity for worship and adoration, save for the One, who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship and adoration.This is clear in the expressing the concept of a transfinite consciousness.
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Peace Abdun Nur,
Your response doesn't answer the question in light of the ancient cultures. The Holy Qur'aan says that Muhammad taught the SAME MESSAGE as the former prophets and messengers, who date back to the time of Adam, possibly even before. Therefore, if your concept of ALLAH being identified as "he who is not a god" is correct, then all the other ancient cultures and traditional theologies would've portrayed Him the same way. And, by simply checking out the ancient world's history, it's pretty obvious that they DIDN'T depict Allah in this way at all. In fact, they depict Him as the One who IS a god, or God of the Gods. Therefore, your ideology is critically flawed. If you believe that your doctrine is the correct one, then it's a testament that the former ones are the INCORRECT ones, meaning the Qur'aan is wrong when it says that Muhammad taught the same theology as the ancients...
The literal definition of the word "khalifa" is SUCCESSOR, one who sits in the place of another in his (the other's) absense. It implies the idea that since God is not on the Earth as a physicality, then humans are to preside as God on Earth, or the physical manifestation of Allah. Translating it as "inheriter" is wrong, especially considering the fact that the Qur'aan repeated mentions those who received inheritances from their parents/relatives, and not one of them is called the (deceased) person's "khalifa"... An alternate concept of "khalifa", as some translators have identified it, is a REPRESENTATIVE, and this conveys nearly the same idea as a successor.
la = no
ilaha = god, deity
illa = but/save/except
allah = ?The word "ilaha" is a traditionalized form of saying "ilah" (or "ilaah", meaning god or deity; there is no question whether or not the word "ilah" and "allah" are related. The word "al" denotes singularity or absoluteness, making the word "allah" mean THE GOD, THE ONE GOD, ONLY GOD, ABSOLUTE GOD, or something of the sort. It couldn't possibly be translated as "he who is not god", since that not only goes against the grammatical usage, but it also goes against the contextual usage of the word itself. By your definition, the culturally acceptable shahaada should be, "La ilaha." Saying 'there is no god except for the one who is not god' makes absolutely no sense, mainly because of the word "ILLA"/except occuring in the statement. You can't worship nothing EXCEPT the one you're not going to worship - that doesn't make any sense. To be grammatically correct, it has to refer to a god, or The God, implying that a god is The God.
If all the previous scriptures are 100% conjecture, then why does the Qur'aan instruct us to examine these to determine the authenticity of our own scripture? Where are the "former scriptures" that the Qur'aan refers to? You don't actually believe that the Qur'aan is the ONLY book ever revealed to humanity, do you? Who were the warners before Muhammad, and what did they teach? Is the Universal message (of Allah) for the Arabs only?