It's no coincidence 19 is so important to Baha'is! It's related to code 19...
-
Any person who makes mockery of the Quran's prophetic numerical structure by any means possible are well described in verse 7431. It is a test to distinguish those who will regress or progress.
All the previous miracles that were shown by previous messengers of God had more ingrates mockers and rejectors than the witnesses. Read 7146.
Peace,
Edip -
I dont agree with everything Rashad Said, however, Im pretty sure Rashad never clamied or was said to be remotely close to being called "God himself".
Question for Khan Do bahi's believe in Rashad Khalifa as a Messenger of the Covenent?
Here is what I find Suspicious about the Bahi Faith
On their Pillars of their homes of Worship, They Inscribe The Cresent Moon/Star, Star of David, Cross and Swastika (hindu/janism/buddhism).
All of these symbols are deeply rooted in occultism, kabbalism, alchemy, and things of that nature.I find it incredibly hard to believe that a True Religion of GOD would Ironically include Symbolism on their temples that are Ironically against the the original Religions that this Supposed "True" religion includes.
Let me Explain.
The Cross is a Symbol that has absolutley nothing to do with True Christianity>aka Followers of Isa bin Maryum>a.k.a. "Islam".
The Cross either Right side up Or Upside down is used in many Occult Rituals and is said to represent Slavery. It has NO validity in Christianty, as most Historians believe that it would not be Historically correct for a man to be put on a cross at that time but rather a plain STAKE, since a plain stake was customary at that time.The Cross was later introduced by probabily Pegans.
The Star of David has nothing to do with True Judaism>aka Followers of Moses>aka "Islam". It is a Symbol that is used to promote pain and oppression and many said Magic/Occultism/satanism etc.... A great Article can be found on Brother Abdun Nur's Website about the Symbol Star.
The Cresent Moon and star also has nothing to do with True Islam. Nearly All FAKE ISLAMIC COUNTRIES have this star on their flags and mosjids. This Symbol is said to have been from the Pegan Godess Diana as well as other pegan places. It is Non-islamic and can be found in every oppressive nation that claims "islam".
Its a pegan symbol and is used to be Above the name of Allah...(by the kings of deception).The Most Ironic Fact is that ALL of these Above Symbols can be found on Flags of nations that are Oppressive, and follow a FAKE version of the Religion they claim to follow. All of these Symbols have become Offical symbols of religion even if they have not been ordained by God. They represent false Religion.
Cresnt Moon represents "Current Hadithist Islam"
The Cross Represents "Current king james/Constinetine/paul/pope/occultic Christianity"
Star of david represents "Current Zionistic Judaism/kabbala/babalonian era"So inconclusion.
If all of these Symbols represent the Altered Religions.....why would the Bahi faith use/display them in/on their temples? -
Any person who makes mockery of the Quran's prophetic numerical structure by any means possible are well described in verse 7431. It is a test to distinguish those who will regress or progress.
All the previous miracles that were shown by previous messengers of God had more ingrates mockers and rejectors than the witnesses. Read 7146.
Peace,
EdipEdip, where did I even talk about rejecting code 19 in this thread? I was merely mentioning the proven relationship between code 19 and the Baha'i faith.
-
RA786, I smiled reading your post, for it reminded me of what I was a few years ago. )
No, we absolutely do not consider Dr Rashad Khalifa to have anything to do with revelation. Nor do we consider Dr Dahesh, Sri Sathya Sai Baba, Osho, Amma, or any other such figures to have anything to do with divinity.
The Baha'i faith is a completely new and independent religion. It is as different from Islam as Christianity is from Judaism.
The pillars you are talking about are found in only one house of worship - the one in Wilmette, Illinois. The architect choose that particular design to promote the oneness of religion. We don't look at symbols in anyway apart from them representing a particular faith. We are very well aware that symbols denote constellations, the Sun, pagan elements, etc. However, to us, it is an irrelevant topic. In the Baha'i faith, we use our symbols mainly to differentiate ourselves from other religions.
The Lotus Temple, for example, has been built in the shape of a Lotus, to reflect Indian culture. Does this imply that we promote idolatry inside this house of worship? Of course not. It is strictly forbidden.
For example, we all know denotes the name of God. However, some claim that the Arabic form of this word was inspired by the Hindu/Zoroastrian trident, as depicted in this fire temple http//www.pbase.com/rlankenau/image/48867474
Does that by any chance mean that the name of God is an occult form of fire worship?
I club all of these allegations as nonsense. I never take any of these things seriously. I mean no offense, but on this website, I only found Layth's article on Islamic etiquette to be of any value.
The main essense of religion is to unite. If religion is the cause of disunity, then there's no need for religion. This is what Baha'u'llah has taught.
We don't argue about whether this ritual is wrong or correct, whether reciting a messenger's name in prayer is incorrect or so on. It's all irrelevant mumbo-jumbo.
Sure, code 19 is a great miracle. However, if a person claims that he/she will go to heaven merely for recognising this miracle and does things which are contrary to faith, then prophet Muhammad would have spent only a few minutes talking about 19 and returned back to managing Khatijah's business. There would have been no need for him and the early believers to have been persecuted to such great extents.
-
well peace khan, thank you for your reply and for your kindness.
Whatever path you choose, I hope Allah will open your heat/mind and bless you.
There are good qualities of the Bahi faith, however some that I just cannot accept.
Such as the belief in Bahillah as an Elevated human, extreame adoration, and then what you call the "Expanded concept of God"...meaning Messenegers are Manifestations of Allah.
Also, I cannot accept the article of fatih in the bahi faith that says that Islam is only for the past time and generation.
Out of All my readings of the Quran, It would seem to me that the Quran was the BEST Source for Law,Religion,and Politics that would solve many of the Socital Problems we face.I believe it was the best Manifesto back then as it is now and in the Future. So, I suppose I disagree with the Bahi belief that Islam was just a Passing Phase of the people at a certain time period. Actually, out of reading the Quran, and trying to understand its context...it would seem that Quite the Opposite it true. The Quran always talked to me in a way that was like "THIS IS THE LAST BOOK and LAST PROPHET....AFTER THIS, COMES JUDGMENT DAY."
I mean Arent there vereses that Actually say "This is the last revelation form your lord."?...if not it seemed that way to me.
-
Thanks for your warm compliments.
To be honest, the Baha'i faith teaches that religion, at its core, is the same. With every new dispensation, the laws, practices, and interpretations change depending on the social situation. This means that the Baha'i faith is indeed Islam - just a new form of it, like how Islam was a new form of monotheism as revealed by Jesus Christ.
Regarding 'manifestation' and Muhammad, the method of revelation from Muhammad was just the same as Baha'u'llah, with the difference that the angelic figure, Gabriel (what was the burning bush for Moses and the maid of heaven for Baha'u'llah) took human form in most instances. However, in other periods, this is how prophet Muhammad received revelation (I read it in Martin Lings book) Sometimes it cometh unto Me like the reverberations of a bell, and that is the hardest upon Me; the reverberations abate when I am aware of their message.
And this is how Baha'u'llah described the coming of revelation During the days I lay in the prison of Teheran through the galling weight of the chains and the stench-filled air allowed Me but little sleep, still in those infrequent moments of slumber I felt as if something flowed from the crown of My head over My breast, even as a mighty torrent that precipitateth itself upon the earth from the summit of a lofty mountain. Every limb of My body would, as a result, be set afire. At such moments My tongue recited what no man could bear to hear.
Hence, they were both manifestations. People usually misunderstand the word manifestation as 'incarnation'. Both are different terms. The oxford dictionary describes 'to manifest' as 'to make clear and evident'. The Baha'i understanding of the term 'manifestation of God' implies a human being who is so completely pure, that he perfectly reflects God's beauty to this world.
Regarding judgement day, we believe it has passed. It only depicts the chaos which occurs in the world (which has been happening since the Bab's dispensation), the mindless hate on the grounds of religion & sectarianism, apart from other reasons, and the growth of irreligion, of immorality. The signs such as 'Heaven and Earth shall be split asunder' are symbolic for this chaos, and resurrection of bodies implies resurrection of souls (explained here http//bahai-library.org/unpubl.articles/resurrection.html )
And no, there's no such message which says that 'this is the last revelation'. The only aya I know of is regarding Muhammad being the last Nabi. On the other hand, I found 33% of the Qur'an implying the advent of Baha'u'llah. There's a book called - Baha'u'llah the Great announcement of the Qur'an. You might find it interesting if you wish to read it.
I apologise for my incoherant English, I'm not feeling well today. I must share this nice video I discovered today, which introduces the Baha'i faith in a clear manner http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-nC-1AF_fM&feature=related
-
I've Read Brother Abdun Nur's Articles as well as constructed my own theorys based on reflection.
I also agree that All religion has a Central Core that is the Same. I use a Water based Analogy.
I believe That All Beliefs are in a Way Like Rivers....
Amazon=Native Naturalist Beliefs
Nile=Buddism
Joran=Jewdaism
Mississippi= Hinduism Etc..Etc...Etc
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/Ocean.gif
Every One of them Share many Commonalities, But Also Lots of Differences.
Each Rivers Main Goal is to return to the Source from which it came.
(the Ocean).
Some Rivers Take Longer to reach the Ocean than others...and some Rivers if taken the Wrong way, end up in a lake going nowhere.
Anybody can see the Differences in these Rivers. There Are Different Plants, Animals, Ecosystems, Color, and Temperature, BUT they are ALL water.
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/Parana.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/muskrat1-787204.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/Nileriver.jpgBasically to make a long story short, I think that All relgion is made of the same basic Substance...H2O (water) The Goal of use Travelers is to Return to the Source again. I am begining to see How Hinduism, Buddism, Islam, Christianity, Native Religions, and an Athiest's Quanum Phisics..begin to become Connected.
I agree that We are unified through the Great Single Conciouness/Creator (i.e. Allah). I feel we are all connected and can (through action ordained by the Quran) develoupe attributes such as the 99 names of Allah.
So far I believe the Theory that we are all Kahlifahs (or have the Potential to be and that is the Goal)....I believe we all have the Potential to be "Christ-like" in the sense of forbidding evil and doing good/pure deeds...which will elivate us. I believe that there is a certain Point in which if One does enough good...he will be able to be "Prophet Link" in the sense of Goodness...but not in the sense of revealing any new scripture.
This is where I disagree with Bahilah.
Also, It would seem very odd that there is sooo much adoration for Bahilah. which to me seems hypocritical. At least in my mind if someone was to reach such a level...I would Imagine them to be humble and accept no credit or adoration from anyone, and rather adore the concept of Tawhid.Here is another thing I have to say... Do you feel that the Bahi faith has failed in someways just like the Other religions?
For instance, Buddhism failed in the Sense that Budda became an Idol of Worship...Jesus become an Idol of Worship, Muhammad became an idol of worship, and so on.... Do you feel that Bahilah has become an idol of worship?Also, is there different Sects in Bahism as well as disagreements and strife as there is in everyother religion?
Or is Bahism magically Immune from such things and is such a panacea as many people claim it is?Here is a topic on another forum....
Is the Bahi Faith a NWO religion?
http//www.wakeupproject.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1171 -
Ah, I suspected that you derived your views from The Arrivals and nooreaga films in general. I was one of the first to be introduced to The Arrivals. ^^
I understand your points of view, although I can't agree with them.
To answer your questions - no, there is no idol worship of any form in the Baha'i faith. We try to detach ourselves and dedicate our souls to becoming closer to God, not letting the changes and chances of the world affect us. We do, indeed, consider Baha'u'llah to be the hidden mystery and the key to unlocking the secrets of divine oneness. However, we do not seek 'intercession' as in how many Muslims perform tawassul. We truly attempt to become nearer and closer to God, alone and in privacy.
However, this does not mean that this will persist forever. A thousand years after Baha'u'llah, a new manifestation will come, expanding existing concepts, changing laws and practices, etc, and his teachings will shock Baha'is in general as in how Baha'u'llah's teachings have shocked Muslims and members of other faiths.
All attempts at dividing the Baha'i faith have miserably failed. The largest group, the 'Orthodox Baha'is', have merely a few dozen active members. Unlike other dispensations of the past, sectarianism will never be an issue with Baha'is.
I personally find the descriptions of the Baha'i faith in Islamic forums to be hilarious - they are poorly researched and without any justification. It's like how Christians continue to portray Islam as a moon-worshiping cult despite all attempts at debunking those myths.
-
So your telling me that there is not a constant rule or Law?
That it changes over time according to how Society is?This doesnt make any sense. I thnk there is a Divine Law that is Consistant and Constant throughout the ages.
What this looks liketo me is a Religion that has mixed in all the "Good" aspects of Other Religions, Elevated a founder, included mysterious alchemy-type of symbolism, built their mansion and Jusice House in Israel (haha very Ironic to have a Justice house in israel huh?) and then creates new laws to superceed old ones as society Progresses (or regresses) according to their beliefs.
If Prophet Muhammad was the "Comforter" and the Prophesized one who will Unite the world under the banner of Submission, why would there be a need to include New Prophets over and over and over and over again? whats the Purpose of that?
If Muhammad fulfilled his Duty, then why introduce a new religion/person?Hasent This day your religion has been Perfected?
Also, Do Bahi's view Israel as an Oppressive Force or are they Cool with Israel since the "House of Justice" is located there?
Do you at all see the Irony in that?------EDIT------------------
Khan, tell me about the Meetings.
Is this True Or Hearsay, that in the Bahi faith there are Confedential meetings in which you must meet with a Master/teacher to perhaps advise you on certain aspects of the Religion? have you heard of these types of Confedential/Secrete Meetings?
If so, why would they have to be Secrete?
-
In that case, divine revelation should have revealed by Abraham, and Abraham alone, right? If revelation was constantly the same, there wouldn't have been any need for other revelations.
I've already explained on how irrelevant the topic of symbols really is.
The Baha'i faith has been based in the Holy Land since the days of Baha'u'llah. He was exiled to the Ottoman Empire by the Shah of Iran, then the Caliph of the Ottoman Empire exiled him to the prison-city of Akka. During this period, the remains of the Bab were transferred to the holy land, and his resting place lies on mount Carmel. When the governor of Akka relaxed Baha'u'llah's terms of imprisonment, he went to the foothills of Mount Carmel and revealed the tablet confirming the establishment of the future UHJ, thereby fulfilling a major biblical prophecy. Ever since that period, the Baha'i faith has been firmly established in the holy land, regardless of which regime controlled the territory, whether it was the the Ottoman Empire, the British mandate of Palestine, or the state of Israel. We don't engage in partisan politics, and respect the laws of the countries where we reside.
Where was no 'Israel' back then, and the very topic of 'Zionism' was unheard of. However, since 1844, the Ottoman Empire did allow European Jews to 'emigrate' to the holy land, once again fulfilling major Islamic/Biblical prophecies.
Muhammad fulfilled his duty and ended the tyranny of the tribes of Arabia. Islam expanded and introduced science and civilisation to the world. The fruits of Islam established themselves rendering powerful Islamic Empires which bought culture and prosperity.
Where is that now? Just like how Christianity collapsed and ushered in the dark ages in Europe, the same has happened to the Islamic world. You have groups like the militants of Somalia, who stone rape victims to death, ruining the beautiful name of Islam. You have groups like the submitters, who assert that only those who believe in their numerology are free from shirk. You have the Ayatollahs of Iran, who pass fatwas allowing prison guards to rape victims as torture, who break every known ordinance in the Qur'an. You have groups on the internet, trying to link symbols and structures to Satan, cursing and vilifying certain individuals like Madonna, who has done many charitable activities for the poor in many countries. Again, not one of these people have implemented a single teaching of the Qur'an, not even the simple forms of etiquette http//www.free-minds.org/etiquette
I went on a personal quest to find a single Muslim who follows the teachings of the Qur'an. I found many of them. They call themselves Baha'is.
Khan, tell me about the Meetings.
Is this True Or Hearsay, that in the Bahi faith there are Confedential meetings in which you must meet with a Master/teacher to perhaps advise you on certain aspects of the Religion? have you heard of these types of Confedential/Secrete Meetings?
If so, why would they have to be Secrete?
Utter rubbish!
We have devotional meetings. We meet, in groups, pray, discuss the holy writings, and perhaps eat if the host has invited us for dinner. There's no clergy or such in the Baha'i faith. I personally have contacted the Universal House of Justice regarding the use of a particular controversial medicine. One of our LSA members was a close friend of many important early Baha'i figures, including the wife of the guardian.
Also, regarding the state of Israel, we don't engage in any politics. We are, however, concerned for human rights, and strive to help oppressed people in all countries regarding of nationality. We help by providing aid, many Baha'i-inspired NGOs such as the Tahirih foundation help female victims who are abused all over the world, etc.
I find the topic of Israel to be fascinating. While the state of Israel was responsible for 1,141 civillian deaths in the 2006 Lebanon war, nobody commented on 280,000 dead in the Darfur genocide. Muslims killing black-skinned Muslims, and no major response from any Islamic country.
-
You dont believe that Madonna, Lady ga-ga and other individuals practice Occultic things?
I am sorry sir, but I think it is rather very obvious. Regurdless of the Charity that is beind done by these individuals (which I do respect that part), There is TONS of other things being Presented.
I am sure that Jay Z, president bush, and others have done charity. but that is irrelevant to what that are invovled in.Anyways, If that is what you feel then the choice is yours. To me, I feel I can disagree with many aspects of Bahism, as I do anyother religion, however agree on the commonality that we share. and by this Commonality, I feel we all can coexist.
As far as your last post goes, Yes I know that After Abraham came many other Prophets, However, in the Quran it says The Religion has been Perfected (i.e. Completed) and Muhammad is the Seal, as well as giving news that judgement day is comming, and no mention of a new and comming prophet.
as far as I believe, Muhammad is the Last Prophet and Islam is the Solution.I guess we interpret Judgment day, seal, and the Quran in a very different way.
so, I say Good day. ;D
Well I believe that Most Islamic Countries are appart of the Evil Agenda, and are just as guilty as Isreal is as they work for the same employer.
-
As I have been looking at some bahi things online,
I find it incredibly hard to believe that the supposed "great religion" forbids Adultery/Fornication by making the Rich pay a Tax and the Poor given Immunity.
This seems almost Identical to the Current System in place today. It seems like it does not solve the Society Problem of Adultery but rather encourages it.
also, someone braught up the Issue about no women Leaders, which I find not very cool.
Did this Suprise you when you looked up Bahi faith?
-
It's a fine, not a tax. The main purpose of it, according to Abdul Baha, is to let the public know about the shameful act. The monetary value is irrelevant.
Backbiting and gossip are strictly forbidden, hence, this fine seeks to bring the incident to public knowledge without these two shameful acts also taking place.
In this day and age, 90 lashes is considered a violation of human rights, but it was a perfect punishment during prophet Muhammad's time, judging as per how barbaric society was back then. For example, did you know that unmarried adulterers in China were punished by being locked in a basket, and killed by being thrown into a river or pond?
Similar to how that law was less harmful than other punishment methods, this law is considered by us as ideal for this dispensation. It beats western laws on adultery, which encourage it and promote the expansion of harmful STD's, teenage pregnancies, etc.
Regarding women leaders, the Baha'i faith encourages the participation of women in all fields of development, including administration. In the tablets to the rulers of the world, Baha'u'llah praised Queen Victoria for being a strong leader who allotted human rights to her citizens. Abdul Baha has said that if more women would rule, the world would be at peace, and would have tremendous development.
Women are allowed to be elected to all Baha'i institutions, except the 9-member Universal House of Justice. Abdul Baha has made it clear that the reason for this will be clear and evident in the future.
Ie, once a Baha'i government is established in a given country, the National Spiritual Assembly is encouraged to elect a female ruler, as the Baha'i writings give importance to women in administration and education. For instance, if a family cannot afford to educate all of its children, it is necessary to educate the female children first, as women are the first educaters in a family.
-
Peace Khan,
But I totally disagree,
I think the 100 lashes serves a great deal even in todays society.
Human right Volations? Human rights violations is a fallable declearation that is based off of the Ever-changing opinions of the Elite.TRUE human rights violations are described in the Quran. It is Not against Human rights to punish a muslim by lashing them 100 times.
Actually, That's what the Muslim Sighned up for in the First place. You dont join a group until you understand their rules....and therefore any muslim who joined Islam, should know that the punishment is 100 lashes for adulters.So, because of Consent (being muslim) it is Not against Human Rights.
It seems to me that Bahi faith is very Convienient.
As an Indigent, it would be very easy for me to commit adultery, and as a Wealthy person, a fee would also be very easy.Its similar to how Coke-acola General Electric, IBM, and other Corporations pay Millions of Dollars in Fines for their Evil Actions against Humanity and the Enviornment, yet continue to do it, and continue to pay for it. So really as long as you have money, you can Pay for whatever you want.
This is the capitalist mindset.
No Offense Brother, But this Bahi faith seems more to me like a Politcal Movement.
A religion that is univeral enough for All people of all faiths to come togeather and practice their religion while still allowing the other Elite powers to carry on with their agenda. A religion where instead of Changing Society to Fit Religion....Religion is Changed to Fit Society.So then, in other words...Society Dictates what laws to follow overtime and God has to just change for US....instead of Us chaning for him?
astagfirullah.I would HATE to be in earth when it gets SUPER bad.... I wonder what New Bahi rules will be in place?
Probabily get Leaner and Leaner? -
You know, I never questioned the lashes law. It was, after all, a divine law.
To me, society will progress to one based on love, and not of fear. It's called spiral dynamics, a psychological topic. This is my own personal interpretation.
Hence, these laws will be irrelevant and rarely imposed, as society is bound to progress to one which prevents such acts from occurring, rather than punish them. The punishments will be imposed in rare cases when these acts actually do occur.
Actually, if you keep committing the act over and over again, you will lose your voting rights, not to mention your standing in the community.
The Baha'i faith also has a number of economic policies unique which will tackle all the setbacks of capitalism and socialism.
To us society is changing because of the revelation. It is an expected outcome, and has already occured in the past. Ever looked into what Roman society was before Christianity spread, or Arab polytheistic society before Islam?
Baha'u'llah revealed concepts such as equality of men and women, complete literacy and education, human rights, abolition of slavery, when these topics were not discussed in most parts of the west (except slavery, which was now practiced mainly in South America), let alone the middle east. In fact, the last country to abolish slavery was Mauritania in 1980, and slavery continues to persist in Sudan and Mali to this day, albeit in secret. Two million children are enslaved in the sex trade all over the world.
-
Meh, I don't believe in conspiracy theories. They're all rubbish. /
Of course they are. And Baha'is are the FIRST IN LINE supporting a World Government, a One World Power.
You officially support the NWO, and lobby at their confrences. I have read the Baha'i memos in the past supporting the UN even, along with the IMF provisions to enslave countries and lead them to a Global Government.
Baha'is are so naive to believe that if a government was given LITERALLY "all the power in the world", that they would use it to better humanity... But you know the saying, "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". The truth of the matter is that the global elite want to create a Technocracy... A world of lords and surfs, in which the surfs have no freedom, and are found mates by analyzing their genetics to create a perfect race of slaves in which the population is completely controlled through eugenics. You really think that eugenics died after the Nazis were destroyed?
-
Nomadic hunter gatherers -> Tribal nomads -> Settled tribes (villages), beginning of agriculture -> Alliance of tribes, building of city-states/minor kingdoms -> Feudal type societies (Persian satrapies being the earliest form) -> Unitary states -> Federations -> Inter-continental federations -> One world federation of nations -> ?
It's all part of evolution. An intelligent organism (which is man) can no longer survive with today's technology if it continues to be at war with itself. As Albert Einstein said - "I don't know what weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones".
When it comes to the UNO, we're mainly involved in humanitarian work. We don't meddle with politics.
Regarding our electoral system, we do not have campaigning and any form of partisanism. Voters elect people into the spiritual assemblies based on their character, rather than the money they received from a 'certain' organisation.
Regarding currency, we do indeed support a single currency. However, the fines in the Kitab-i-Aqdas are based on a value of gold. So it's highly likely that the currency will be pegged to the gold standard with implementations to prevent hyperinflation, such as what happened in the Ming dynasty after the Yuan dynasty's fiat currency was abolished, or the mass inflation which followed when Thomas Jefferson refused to renew the second bank of America's license.
I don't want to get into details, but I have spent nearly two years reviewing various conspiracy theories (from David Icke to Noreagaa films), and I do believe I have the right to call them rubbish.
Good day.