62:5 donkey carrying books...

Ayisha

but we all can forget, can't we? thats the weakness of our minds and sometimes our enemy Shaitan makes us forget! And the good thing is you get remember and come back!

certainly one can forget but one has to know it in the first place to forget it. reformer spent rather a long time insisting it wasnt about books, and given his native Arabic and his vast education one would assume he would have 'remembered' long before all the blurb insisting the words were not as they were, wouldnt one? angel

Thereformer1

certainly one can forget but one has to know it in the first place to forget it. reformer spent rather a long time insisting it wasnt about books, and given his native Arabic and his vast education one would assume he would have 'remembered' long before all the blurb insisting the words were not as they were, wouldnt one? angel

I'm still insisting that it wasn't about books >>>>>> I said baggages and these baggages could be books . Baggages of Books but not books alone ....the baggage contains books and it can contain something else .the real meaning of the word is baggages.

Ayisha

I'm still insisting that it wasn't about books >>>>>> I said baggages and these baggages could be books . Baggages of Books but not books alone ....the baggage contains books and it can contain something else .the real meaning of the word is baggages.

whatever hail

Mazhar

I'm still insisting that it wasn't about books >>>>>> I said baggages and these baggages could be books . Baggages of Books but not books alone ....the baggage contains books and it can contain something else .the real meaning of the word is baggages.

Why an Arab is insisting to stick to that which slipped from him in the first instance. The object of the Verb, in accusative, is there, books; "he is carrying books" not that "these baggages could be books". Second thing is compatibility which is the subject discussed in the verse. Torat is a Book written on tablets, that can be comparerd only with books not baggages. Misl is always for a tangible thing like of the one quoted earlier.

Thereformer1

Why an Arab is insisting to stick to that which slipped from him in the first instance. The object of the Verb, in accusative, is there, books; "he is carrying books" not that "these baggages could be books". Second thing is compatibility which is the subject discussed in the verse. Torat is a Book written on tablets, that can be comparerd only with books not baggages. Misl is always for a tangible thing like of the one quoted earlier.

well, I've seen a lot of interpretation of this verse and all of these interpretations said "books", but I disagreed with these interpretations because it is not a good one and I have right to disagree with this interpretation while I can use Arabic to prove that they might be wrong . the example that God gave is about an animal which is a Donkey, which people have a wrong idea about this kind of animal and they said that this animal is dumb, no this is wrong and that's why those interpreters got their meanings from a false information through history. any example of an animal a horse or a camel if they carry books they will not understand , it is normal because they are animals , so why would God gave this example ? for one reason that Donkey has one mission is to carry things not like horse(can be used in different way and so the camel or the other animals ). I proved why I said baggages and I insisted that it's not books and the real meaning is baggages which they could be everything (books , forniture, rubbish, human, ..etc).

Ayisha

well, I've seen a lot of interpretation of this verse and all of these interpretations said "books", but I disagreed with these interpretations because it is not a good one and I have right to disagree with this interpretation while I can use Arabic to prove that they might be wrong .

But the Arabic proved it was books, you agreed it was books ???

the example that God gave is about an animal which is a Donkey, which people have a wrong idea about this kind of animal and they said that this animal is dumb, no this is wrong and that's why those interpreters got their meanings from a false information through history.
does the verse say the animal is dumb? ???

any example of an animal a horse or a camel if they carry books they will understand , it is normal because they are animals , so why would God gave this example ? for one reason that Donkey has one mission is to carry things not like horse(can be used in different way and so the camel or the other animals ). I proved why I said baggages and I insisted that it's not books and the real meaning is baggages which they could be everything (books , forniture, rubbish, human, ..etc).

so is it books in the baggage or not, in your opinion, as a native Arabic speaker with much education in Arabic? ???

Thereformer1

But the Arabic proved it was books, you agreed it was books ???

No, I can prove using Arabic that they are not books and God knows, I agreed that the Baggage is from books, because God SWT is talking about the people who carried the book of Moses without practicing it and obeying what came in it. but it could be anything else of baggages.

the real meaning as I know that the meaning is baggages .

does the verse say the animal is dumb? ???

No, but people when they talk about Donkey, they gave him the attributes of Dumb.

so is it books in the baggage or not, in your opinion, as a native Arabic speaker with much education in Arabic? ???

according to the verse the baggage of Books but it could be anything else and God knows.

Mazhar

well, I've seen a lot of interpretation of this verse and all of these interpretations said "books", but I disagreed with these interpretations because it is not a good one and I have right to disagree with this interpretation while I can use Arabic to prove that they might be wrong . the example that God gave is about an animal which is a Donkey, which people have a wrong idea about this kind of animal and they said that this animal is dumb, no this is wrong and that's why those interpreters got their meanings from a false information through history. any example of an animal a horse or a camel if they carry books they will not understand , it is normal because they are animals , so why would God gave this example ? for one reason that Donkey has one mission is to carry things not like horse(can be used in different way and so the camel or the other animals ). I proved why I said baggages and I insisted that it's not books and the real meaning is baggages which they could be everything (books , forniture, rubbish, human, ..etc).

I don't know why a simple and straight forward example given in the verse is not distinctly being seen by an Arab. "Books" is the translation and not interpretation. The perception about donkey is not that of deaf, but of at times becoming stubborn and generally as lacking intelligence. People are compared with donkey, and the common thing between the two is carrying a specific book, and donkey carrying many books.

they are described like . What earlier one did afterwards they did not carry it except like a donkey who is carrying books. And very interesting thing is that they were given only One Book Torat while their people brought in books of a donkey load, as is the case with us these days that we have drafted and compiled on hearsay and conjectures as many books that make a donkey load.

All words made from this Root and used in the Qur'aan have been pasted. Nowhere it suggests "baggage". Can you quote for us from any Arabic Dictionary, earlier poetry, or learned Bukhari type people where it has been used for "baggage".

Ayisha

No, I can prove using Arabic that they are not books and God knows, I agreed that the Baggage is from books, because God SWT is talking about the people who carried the book of Moses without practicing it and obeying what came in it. but it could be anything else of baggages.
I am sure you can try to prove from the Arabic that it was anything else you wish but it wont take away that the verse speaks of books, right? you agreed, right?

the real meaning as I know that the meaning is baggages .
No it has been proven and you agreed the baggages in this verse are books, right? you agreed.

No, but people when they talk about Donkey, they gave him the attributes of Dumb.
stick to the verse, stop adding things YOU think should be there and that YOU think people are thinking. Do you read minds?

according to the verse the baggage of Books but it could be anything else and God knows.

Yes God knows and thats why He used the words He did. Its NOT anything else and according to the Arabic it IS books, so please stop saying it COULD be anything else. I am assuming if it was baggage of corn or clothing Allah would use a different word to the one that says it is books?

you were wrong, deal with it and accept a better understanding of the verses.

Thereformer1

I am sure you can try to prove from the Arabic that it was anything else you wish but it wont take away that the verse speaks of books, right? you agreed, right?

I'm not trying, I'm citing facts from Arabic language. Quran speaks of books after the verse where God mentioned the Donkey, he mentioned the term books "" and then he mentioned "" the book of Moses, so why he would say that donkey will carry books ? that's make no sense. the purpose of the example about the donkey that this animal carried things but he didn't use them or know them like jewish they take the book of Moses but they didn't use it or know it very well as they claimed. so again why would a donkey carry books ?

No it has been proven and you agreed the baggages in this verse are books, right? you agreed.
stick to the verse, stop adding things YOU think should be there and that YOU think people are thinking. Do you read minds?

No, I didn't agree, I just said that the baggages could be books or anything else in the term that donkey can carry anything .

and Yes I've said the truth and I always fight with people that the donkey is not dumb as they claimed, wherever you go in the whole word they will say that donkey is dumb except some doctors and me lol.

Yes God knows and thats why He used the words He did. Its NOT anything else and according to the Arabic it IS books, so please stop saying it COULD be anything else. I am assuming if it was baggage of corn or clothing Allah would use a different word to the one that says it is books?
you were wrong, deal with it and accept a better understanding of the verses.

Allah used words meanings books but definitely this word means baggages and it could be anything books forniture, you name it.

I was not wrong, and I'll not deal with it because I know very well the meaning of this word .

Thereformer1

I don't know why a simple and straight forward example given in the verse is not distinctly being seen by an Arab. "Books" is the translation and not interpretation. The perception about donkey is not that of deaf, but of at times becoming stubborn and generally as lacking intelligence. People are compared with donkey, and the common thing between the two is carrying a specific book, and donkey carrying many books.

they are described like . What earlier one did afterwards they did not carry it except like a donkey who is carrying books. And very interesting thing is that they were given only One Book Torat while their people brought in books of a donkey load, as is the case with us these days that we have drafted and compiled on hearsay and conjectures as many books that make a donkey load.
All words made from this Root and used in the Qur'aan have been pasted. Nowhere it suggests "baggage". Can you quote for us from any Arabic Dictionary, earlier poetry, or learned Bukhari type people where it has been used for "baggage".

hey, thanks for your explanation, I really appreciate it but not for me , I know the meaning so stop trying to give me the meaning of a word that I know what it means . some words in Arabic you can't understand them if I use them in a different manner which your master or PhD in Arabic can't stand and this is not arrogance from me .
is baggages and they could be anything books, fornitures, human, anything just name it.

Mazhar

hey, thanks for your explanation, I really appreciate it but not for me , I know the meaning so stop trying to give me the meaning of a word that I know what it means . some words in Arabic you can't understand them if I use them in a different manner which your master or PhD in Arabic can't stand and this is not arrogance from me .
is baggages and they could be anything books, fornitures, human, anything just name it.

Why do you presume things in your own thoughts? Please quote that will help increase our knowledge.

Ayisha

"I am sure you can try to prove from the Arabic that it was anything else you wish but it wont take away that the verse speaks of books, right? you agreed, right?"

I'm not trying, I'm citing facts from Arabic language. Quran speaks of books after the verse where God mentioned the Donkey, he mentioned the term books "" and then he mentioned "" the book of Moses, so why he would say that donkey will carry books ? that's make no sense. the purpose of the example about the donkey that this animal carried things but he didn't use them or know them like jewish they take the book of Moses but they didn't use it or know it very well as they claimed. so again why would a donkey carry books ?

You have managed to totally contradict yourself there.

"No it has been proven and you agreed the baggages in this verse are books, right? you agreed."

No, I didn't agree, I just said that the baggages could be books or anything else in the term that donkey can carry anything .

you DID agree here
Yes, you're right I've just forgot that what is being carried in the baggages are books or something else because Donkey can carry everything but in the verse it means that the donkey carry baggage of books .

and Yes I've said the truth and I always fight with people that the donkey is not dumb as they claimed, wherever you go in the whole word they will say that donkey is dumb except some doctors and me lol.
no one here has called the donkey dumb, only you have brought that up, which is nothing to do with the verse. It seems you are desperately trying to get off the topic of the VERSE.

Allah used words meanings books but definitely this word means baggages and it could be anything books forniture, you name it.
So Allah used the wrong word?? Do you think you need to correct Him on His language skills??

I was not wrong, and I'll not deal with it because I know very well the meaning of this word .

Then you know better than Allah? You contradicted yourself again as you keep saying its not books then it is books, make your mind up, you seem very confused about what you actually mean. Thank God you're not a teacher ???

Thereformer1

Why do you presume things in your own thoughts? Please quote that will help increase our knowledge.

this is definitely not my own thoughts I used Arabic to make you understand and I used Arabic to explain to you the root and everything about the word and there is no way that the word means books (that it's not books alone), the word is baggages of books or anything else that a donkey can carry.

I've gave you the explantion before so ry to read it very well and get evrything I said from verb and plural things to source and roots.

and this is my question to you why would a donkey carry books ? in the sense of the jewish who they carry book to read them

Ayisha

this is definitely not my own thoughts I used Arabic to make you understand and I used Arabic to explain to you the root and everything about the word and there is no way that the word means books (that it's not books alone), the word is baggages of books or anything else that a donkey can carry.

I've gave you the explantion before so ry to read it very well and get evrything I said from verb and plural things to source and roots.

and this is my question to you why would a donkey carry books ? in the sense of the jewish who they carry book to read them

the verse doesnt say the donkey was carrying the books to read them, do you think he was going to read them? ???

You are confusing me, it is books, its not books, it is books, its not books. ( ( Now donkeys dont carry books coz they cant read them ( (

I presume they would carry baggages of furniture for their own donkey stables too? o

Mazhar

this is definitely not my own thoughts I used Arabic to make you understand and I used Arabic to explain to you the root and everything about the word and there is no way that the word means books (that it's not books alone), the word is baggages of books or anything else that a donkey can carry.

I've gave you the explantion before so ry to read it very well and get evrything I said from verb and plural things to source and roots.

and this is my question to you why would a donkey carry books ? in the sense of the jewish who they carry book to read them

So you could not find an instance where some one had ever used and employed this root to convey the meanings of baggage, yet are shy to admit it. O kay thanks.

Thereformer1

You have managed to totally contradict yourself there.

No, go read the verse first than talk .

"No it has been proven and you agreed the baggages in this verse are books, right? you agreed."

No, I said "baggages of books" the word still there wich baggages and I did add if you read the post very without pick on what you want (bold things) that this baggages could be anything >>>> read my posts all of them.

you DID agree here no one here has called the donkey dumb, only you have brought that up, which is nothing to do with the verse. It seems you are desperately trying to get off the topic of the VERSE.

where do you live ? if you're an Egypt you have lied to me because Egypt used to call people donkey if they are dumbs and I've heard that more than what you think and the same here where I live and I always said that donkey is not Dumb.

So Allah used the wrong word?? Do you think you need to correct Him on His language skills??

hey, stop putting words in my mouth , I didn't say that . you misunderstood what Allah means .

Then you know better than Allah? You contradicted yourself again as you keep saying its not books then it is books, make your mind up, you seem very confused about what you actually mean. Thank God you're not a teacher ???

again stop putting words in my mouth, I know what God gave me and nothing else, there are others more than me in knowledge and I can debate with them if I see myself know better in such a thing.

I'm not confused you're confused because you have received a new information makes you shaking from someone you don't like him .

I thank God because I'm not a teacher, I usually proved that teachers are wrong . I've got Excelent in very good in Islamic Education because a gift from God in understanding the Islamic Issues. so stop >> I can give you questions you'll not even whisper a word if you hear them.

Ayisha

No, go read the verse first than talk .
I did

No, I said "baggages of books" the word still there wich baggages and I did add if you read the post very without pick on what you want (bold things) that this baggages could be anything >>>> read my posts all of them.
I did, you said it was books

where do you live ? if you're an Egypt you have lied to me because Egypt used to call people donkey if they are dumbs and I've heard that more than what you think and the same here where I live and I always said that donkey is not Dumb.
again you didnt read or understand what I said. I said no one HERE (in this forum on this topic), i did not say no one here (in Egypt), stop calling me a liar and learn to read properly please.

hey, stop putting words in my mouth , I didn't say that . you misunderstood what Allah means .
again stop putting words in my mouth, I know what God gave me and nothing else, there are others more than me in knowledge and I can debate with them if I see myself know better in such a thing.
I just pointed out what YOU said, if you now disagree again with what YOU said then you need to seek professional help

I'm not confused you're confused because you have received a new information makes you shaking from someone you don't like him .
new information? you mean your additions to Quran and your interpretations? yes I am shaking with laughter. You are confused as you cant make your mind up about books or not books and you are trying to say Allah is using the wrong wording according to YOU and YOUR use and knowledge of Arabic. This in turn is making me very confused as I cant believe that when you have been shown the wording in Arabic that you agreed with you are then changing your mind and disagreeing with what YOU have previously said, yes thats confusing. It seems if I say one thing you will immediately jump in and say the opposite, maybe because its you that doesnt like me?

I thank God because I'm not a teacher, I usually proved that teachers are wrong .

yes you are trying hard to prove Allah wrong too ;D ;D

I've got Excelent in very good in Islamic Education because a gift from God in understanding the Islamic Issues. so stop >>
How on earth did you learn in this education if you keep proving your teachers wrong? ???

I can give you questions you'll not even whisper a word if you hear them.

but you dont manage to answer any questions do you

Thereformer1

I did, you said it was books

No, I said baggages of books or anything else .

again you didnt read or understand what I said. I said no one HERE (in this forum on this topic), i did not say no one here (in Egypt), stop calling me a liar and learn to read properly please.

the same thing , they will say it because of a false information through history .

I just pointed out what YOU said, if you now disagree again with what YOU said then you need to seek professional help
new information?

No, you picked on what you want and you let what I really said which is baggages of books or anything else. I think you need a whole team of psychiatre to remove your confusion and your schizo matters.

you mean your additions to Quran and your interpretations? yes I am shaking with laughter.

did I say that , I have gave people here the word in Arabic and its meanings in Arabic which can be the same meaning in the verse . You know that I know this word and its meanings before reading this verse. so it was easy to give you the exact meaning of the word .

You are confused as you cant make your mind up about books or not books

I said baggages of books the important word here is baggages , about books it could place it anything else .

and you are trying to say Allah is using the wrong wording according to YOU and YOUR use and knowledge of Arabic.

I knew the meaning of this word before even read this verse, so it was easy for me to understand the meaning which is in turn difficult for you to get it.

This in turn is making me very confused as I cant believe that when you have been shown the wording in Arabic that you agreed with you are then changing your mind and disagreeing with what YOU have previously said, yes thats confusing. It seems if I say one thing you will immediately jump in and say the opposite, maybe because its you that doesnt like me?

I agreed when he said baggages of books because the real important word here is baggages not books . so definitely I'm still saying the same think with no confusion, it's my native language why should be confused in my own words ? do you?

yes you are trying hard to prove Allah wrong too ;D ;D

did I say that ? so congratulation for your sin (accusing someone that he said something but he didn't say it "' which forbidden ) .

How on earth did you learn in this education if you keep proving your teachers wrong? ???

they are teachers so they could be wrong because after all a teacher is not a well known in Fiqh and its science.

but you dont manage to answer any questions do you

what do you mean ?

Ayisha

No, I said baggages of books or anything else .
you said on page 2 that THIS VERSE means books, the donkey was carrying BOOKS.

the same thing , they will say it because of a false information through history .
So now you predict that people on this forum will start calling a donkey dumb? ??? When do you predict this will happen and in which topic, or will it have its own topic? ???

No, you picked on what you want and you let what I really said which is baggages of books or anything else. I think you need a whole team of psychiatre to remove your confusion and your schizo matters.
I highlighted YOUR words

did I say that , I have gave people here the word in Arabic and its meanings in Arabic which can be the same meaning in the verse . You know that I know this word and its meanings before reading this verse. so it was easy to give you the exact meaning of the word .
and the exact meaning of the word has already been established as BOOKS by brother Mazhar and agreed by you. Why are you still arguing about what you said? ???

I said baggages of books the important word here is baggages , about books it could place it anything else .
no the word is BOOKS, it is not baggages as has also been established by brother Mazhar and you didnt answer his question on HOW do you get that means baggages

I knew the meaning of this word before even read this verse, so it was easy for me to understand the meaning which is in turn difficult for you to get it.
that explains the problem!

I agreed when he said baggages of books because the real important word here is baggages not books . so definitely I'm still saying the same think with no confusion, it's my native language why should be confused in my own words ? do you?
go back to page 2 and answer how you get the word baggages when its clearly books. You do seem very confused even in your own language

Allah used words meanings books but definitely this word means baggages and it could be anything books forniture, you name it.

did I say that ? so congratulation for your sin (accusing someone that he said something but he didn't say it "' which forbidden ) .

yes you said that here "Allah used words meanings books but definitely this word means baggages and it could be anything books forniture, you name it."

You have sinned in every post as you predict what people WILL say, what they think, what they believe and even accused a man of saying he touched a woman who didnt.

they are teachers so they could be wrong because after all a teacher is not a well known in Fiqh and its science.
how do they manage to teach anything without you to guide them? (

what do you mean ?

I mean you dont answer ANY questions you are asked, even that one!