What is الفاحشة "Fahisha" ?
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Brothers Afridi, Mazhar,
Please follow this link - You will find it in 12th reply, 2nd paragraph, by Dr. Qamar Zaman
http//www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?MID=4&SID=21&QID=65
God bless you.
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The word "ZINA" which relates closely with the word "Fahash" has also been investigated into, in the quest to explore and discover the genuine interpretations of Quranic terminology. And Lo, the meaning is
"TO DISTORT THE IDEOLOGY". Al-Zani is the one who "distorts, changes, twists, alters shape, bends, forces a change into" the divine ideology. Al-Zania can be a female, or a group, community, gang (Jama'at), as any Jama'at in Arabic is a "feminine" and has a 't' of 'tanees' in the end.
Dr. seems to have been researching words in a semi intoxicated state of mind since he thinks there is no prohibition on whisky. I know about sittings for "scholarly and spirtual" discourses eplaining Qur'aan while enjoying sips of whisky also.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.68.gif
And they are those who never call along with Allah any other as iela'aha;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.68a.gif
and nor they murder any person whom Allah has prohibited/sanctified to be murdered except on charge/conviction of rightful allegation .
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.68b.gif
And they do not indulge in consented illicit sexual intercourse,ChapterAlFurqan
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QUOTE
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And they do not indulge in consented illicit sexual intercourse,What is the basis of "adding" the word "consented illicit" herein, may I ask?
I do think this is what is called "Tahreef" in Quran.
And I do think Quranic students have to be research minded not "label pasters". It is better than to pull a sorry face later on.Why can't it be "And they do not "distort the Quranic ideology"? Arabic lexicons support this meaning.
God bless you.
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QUOTE
" "
And they do not indulge in consented illicit sexual intercourse,What is the basis of "adding" the word "consented illicit" herein, may I ask?
I do think this is what is called "Tahreef" in Quran.
And I do think Quranic students have to be research minded not "label pasters". It is better than to pull a sorry face later on.Why can't it be "And they do not "distort the Quranic ideology"? Arabic lexicons support this meaning.
God bless you.
The issue was that Dr. sahib said Fahashi is Shirk. The verse quoted unimbiguously shows that his assertion is mere conjecture and scum. It is strange that such an assertion is taken as "scholarly" and "consented illicit" is being declared as "Tahreef" in Qur'aan.
Can a man and women indulge in sexual intercourse to be considered as Zina without there being desire and consent? Qur'aan says "do not go near Zina". What does "near" mean? The nearness is only the result of desire and consent.
If somebody takes an oath from a lady that she will not commit Zina what does that imply? Only that she will not do it by desire and consent otherwise a women can be abused for intercourse by force and coercion.
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Quote from Mazhar
"The issue was that Dr. sahib said Fahashi is Shirk."Brother, where has Dr. Sahib said that Fahashi is Shirk? He only said that Fahashi is ?the pursuit of one?s own lust/desires, as opposed to the divine ideology?. Utmost care is required while God?s words are discussed since it is a matter of universal guidance. Misquotes always mislead.
?The verse quoted unimbiguously shows that his assertion is mere conjecture and scum.?
It would be only reasonable if you try to ?show? and prove that ?his assertion is mere conjecture and scum?. To use such words without bearing the burden of proof, is felony of the worst kind dear brother. Not appropriate for a Quranic sudent.
"consented illicit". Is a blatant violation of God?s words, WHO only said ZINA and no suggestion or implication is there for ?consented illicit Zina?. You have no right to adulterate Quranic text with your wishful thinking, be it to justify a fabricated meaning.
Had the meaning of ZINA been sexual intercourse, Quran must have differentiated between Zina Bil Jabr and Zina bil Raza. Both kinds of acts of Zina are being committed in our daily lives. There should also have been two different punishments for them respectively. There are none.
Moreover, Zina and Shirk have been declared equivalents. Read carefully the Ayat 24/3
The traditional Jewish translation
?The Zani does not marry except with Zania or Mushrikah, and the Zaniah, no one marries her except Zani or Mushrik??.?The following questions arise
- Is that Statement true or false? It is false, as we see that even the most corrupt man won?t marry an adultress. The most corrupt man would like his wife to be chaste and faithful to him.
- What is the common value between a Zani and a Mushrik? Think very deeply. There is no common value between a Zani and a Mushrik. Zina, with your meaning, is a physical act corresponding to your frame of mind, your desire and your lust. Shirk relates with your faith, conviction, belief, etc.
- Is a Zani always a Mushrik? No.
- Is a Mushrik always a Zani? No.
- A man or a woman can be a non Mushrik and can still be a Zani.
- On the other hand, a Mushrik can easily be a non-Zani.
So brother, the old traditional Jewish translation of the word, as well as your rhetoric, is a conjecture and portrays an irrational and illogical picture of the Quranic text.
Kindly re-consider and feel free to ask questions.God bless you.
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Quote from Mazhar
"The issue was that Dr. sahib said Fahashi is Shirk."Brother, where has Dr. Sahib said that Fahashi is Shirk? He only said that Fahashi is ?the pursuit of one?s own lust/desires, as opposed to the divine ideology?. Utmost care is required while God?s words are discussed since it is a matter of universal guidance. Misquotes always mislead.
The problem is that when people start idolizing other men, everything gets blurred. A little while earlier it was said loudly
Aurangzeb
Dear friends,May I suggest the most up to date meaning of "Fahash", according to the research of Dr. Qamar Zaman of "www.aastana.com". That is
"THE PURSUIT OF ONE'S OWN PERSONAL DESIRES AS AGAINST THE DIVINE DISCIPLINE."
Hence "Fahash" becomes equal to "SHIRK", making it one of the most serious offenses. -
?The verse quoted unimbiguously shows that his assertion is mere conjecture and scum.?
It would be only reasonable if you try to ?show? and prove that ?his assertion is mere conjecture and scum?. To use such words without bearing the burden of proof, is felony of the worst kind dear brother. Not appropriate for a Quranic sudent.
Here you are confirming he said this. First you make up your mind whether or not he declared Fahashi as Shirk, then I will quote you the verses which will make it abundantly lucid that his statement is conjecture and scum.
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For Mazhar and other brothers/sisters
QUOTE FROM MY LAST POST
?consented illicit". Is a blatant violation of God?s words, WHO only said ZINA and no suggestion or implication is there for ?consented illicit Zina?. You have no right to adulterate Quranic text with your wishful thinking, be it to justify a fabricated meaning.
(NO answer given)
Had the meaning of ZINA been sexual intercourse, Quran must have differentiated between Zina Bil Jabr and Zina bil Raza. Both kinds of acts of Zina are being committed in our daily lives. There should also have been two different punishments for them respectively. There are none.
(No answer given)
Moreover, Zina and Shirk have been declared equivalents. Read carefully the Ayat 24/3The traditional Jewish translation
?The Zani does not marry except with Zania or Mushrikah, and the Zaniah, no one marries her except Zani or Mushrik??.?The following questions arise
- Is that Statement true or false? It is false, as we see that even the most corrupt man won?t marry an adultress. The most corrupt man would like his wife to be chaste and faithful to him.
- What is the common value between a Zani and a Mushrik? Think very deeply. There is no common value between a Zani and a Mushrik. Zina, with your meaning, is a physical act corresponding to your frame of mind, your desire and your lust. Shirk relates with your faith, conviction, belief, etc.
- Is a Zani always a Mushrik? No.
- Is a Mushrik always a Zani? No.
- A man or a woman can be a non Mushrik and can still be a Zani.
- On the other hand, a Mushrik can easily be a non-Zani.
So brother, the old traditional Jewish translation of the word, as well as your rhetoric, is a conjecture and portrays an irrational and illogical picture of the Quranic text.
(No answers given)Since all the above logical argumentation has fallen on deaf ears, I can rightly assume that this Forum is devoid of intellectual sensibilities. A childish stubbornness and arrogance is manifest. Brothers here seem more intent on, and satisfied with, ?verbal acrobatics? of the sharpest kind. Insults and slander is the order of the day here.
What kind of a Quranic Forum it is brothers, where people are looking for confrontations and verbal fire exchanges, rather than being receptive to new explorations of Quranic meanings and ideology? Where have you lost the basic value of ?respect for humanity? that Quran declares as mandatory?
?Fahash? is following one?s own desires and lust, as against the divine Guidance. So, if it is equated to SHIRK, what is your problem there? The important thing here is to discuss the newly exposed basic meanings of the word; and make a research into its validity. And to accept it, if found authentic, as it rationalizes the Quranic philosophy and answers all the anomalies that are pointed out in the above quote ? that you were unable to answer. That?s the way of evolution brothers.
I am sorry that I only find ?Quranic rogues? on these pages??say, ?Quranic extremist Mullas?, if you like ?..assuming an air of final authority and issuing edicts. Disgorging words like ?scum? from their ?Quranic mouths?, without any provocation.
So brothers, I leave your foolhardy, haughty Blog, allowing you a 20-year grace period to grow up and learn Quran afresh, till your mentality is straightened and a research oriented demeanor is manifest in your characters. You are devoid of the civility and the politeness of manners and still, very strangely, are out to teach Quran to infidels!!!!
What a shame?Read this excerpt also and please do look into a mirror. You will sure cry in disgust
The moment I joined the forums of free-minds.org and posted the first message about the FIVE PROJECTS (not five prayers!) we were working on, my faith was questioned by several people and I was immediately challenged regarding my opinion on SALAT. On any subject I wrote, I was harassed and demanded to indulge in their favorite argument. It seems that several people were so excited from freeing their minds and their bodies from performing a ritual; they just wanted to PROHIBIT such a ritual in the name of God. According to these people, anyone disagrees with their INTERPRETATION, INFERENCES and SPECULATIONS on some Quranic verses or words, or someone prays differently, he or she must be a MUSHRIK or DISBELIEVER. According to them I should not spend much time to think and study their claims. They did not even recognize a right for me to spend time on anything else in my life. I was expected either to reject their position IMMEDIATELY or accept IMMEDIATELY. Studying their argument was either a luxury, or evasion of absolute truth! I should have had acted reflexively, with a knee-jerk reaction, perhaps like they have done it.
God bless you.
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Aurangzeb, cool your mind, it is disturbed and is totally in confused state, even not noticing that your statements are self contradictory. Just state what is the concept of "Zina" in your mind; and what is the concept of "Shirk", in your or in the opinion of your Dr. Sahib.
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Moreover, Zina and Shirk have been declared equivalents. Read carefully the Ayat 24/3
The traditional Jewish translation
?The Zani does not marry except with Zania or Mushrikah, and the Zaniah, no one marries her except Zani or Mushrik??.?
The following questions arise- Is that Statement true or false? It is false, as we see that even the most corrupt man won?t marry an adultress. The most corrupt man would like his wife to be chaste and faithful to him.
- What is the common value between a Zani and a Mushrik? Think very deeply. There is no common value between a Zani and a Mushrik. Zina, with your meaning, is a physical act corresponding to your frame of mind, your desire and your lust. Shirk relates with your faith, conviction, belief, etc.
- Is a Zani always a Mushrik? No.
- Is a Mushrik always a Zani? No.
- A man or a woman can be a non Mushrik and can still be a Zani.
- On the other hand, a Mushrik can easily be a non-Zani.
God bless you.
24/3. The adulterer-fornicator marries not but an adulteress-fornicatress or a Mushrikah, and the adulteress-fornicatress none marries her except an adulterer-fornicator or a Muskrik . Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Isl?mic Monotheism).
so the reason that the Zani is equivalent to a Mushrik is because both of them not fear God and they both of them comit a guilt or a sin . so by definition they are equals and God knows.
Arabic interpretation
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Just how do you explain 241-10 using your interpretation? I don't see how that can refer to anything but adultery.
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Mazhar, Reformer and others,
Still no response against or rebuttal to my arguments. Still intent on hollow verbal confrontation. Asking me to cool down. But still furious and explosive on an intellectual difference of opinion. Leave Quran alone. As I said, you people are "Quranic rogues". A curse on Quranic community.
You are sick brothers. And I beg protection of Almighty from sicknesses of this kind.
God bless you all.
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http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat3_files/3_135.gif
And those who when they commit an indecency or do injustice to their souls remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their faults -- and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) do not knowingly persist in what they have done.http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat4_files/4_15.gif
And as for those who commit an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. -
For Mazhar and other brothers/sisters
QUOTE FROM MY LAST POST
?consented illicit". Is a blatant violation of God?s words, WHO only said ZINA and no suggestion or implication is there for ?consented illicit Zina?. You have no right to adulterate Quranic text with your wishful thinking, be it to justify a fabricated meaning.
(NO answer given)Conjecture mongers very rapidly become blind of eyes and heart. Zina means consented illicit intercourse only. Read answer was in reply;
Can a man and women indulge in sexual intercourse to be considered as Zina without there being desire and consent? Qur'aan says "do not go near Zina". What does "near" mean? The nearness is only the result of desire and consent.
If somebody takes an oath from a lady that she will not commit Zina what does that imply? Only that she will not do it by desire and consent otherwise a women can be abused for intercourse by force and coercion.
Rape is NOT Zina, since consent i.e. desire for nearness to sexual intercourse is not there for one party. In rape also the effect will be the same as is in the case of consented illicit sexual intercourse, but in rape punishment can be extended by the state to capital punishment, but not in case of Zina. Some stupid coined the term Zina bil jaber. Once force is applied, by either party, it is not Zina.
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QUOTE
Rape is NOT Zina, since consent i.e. desire for nearness to sexual intercourse is not there for one party. In rape also the effect will be the same as is in the case of consented illicit sexual intercourse, but in rape punishment can be extended by the state to capital punishment, but not in case of Zina. Some stupid coined the term Zina bil jaber. Once force is applied, by either party, it is not Zina.I have already put a question Where is the differentiation between ZINA and RAPE?
Where is RAPE mentioned as against ZINA? What is the punishment for RAPE in Quran, while punishment for "ZINA" is clearly mentioned?Do we have to go after the "edict" of a Quranic Mulla here? What authority has he to prescribe "capital punishment" for a "sin" that is not even mentioned in Quran?
Nothing but the same hollow verbal acrobatics!! A tunnel vision! Harsh and indecent words. A violent Quranic Mulla, eh? -
Dear friends,
"TO DISTORT THE IDEOLOGY". Al-Zani is the one who "distorts, changes, twists, alters shape, bends, forces a change into" the divine ideology. Al-Zania can be a female, or a group, community, gang (Jama'at), as any Jama'at in Arabic is a "feminine" and has a 't' of 'tanees' in the end.
I would very much like to read friends' opinions.
God bless you.
salaam brother, where can I find more about that interesting understanding, perhaps you can provide any reference from quran or any classical dictionary to back up this. thanks for sharing your thoughts.