Surah 75:27
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I just want from you to be frank in what you said as a verbal irony . if you don't want, fine. I'll not blame you.
Quote from Thereformer1 on Today at 111606 AM
well, I've studied Arabic from birth to now and about Quran I found no problem in understanding the verses and its meanings and the message that God wanted to deliver, let alone that I have the book of the best and the famous interpreters of Quran.wow reading and studying from the cradle, im impressed
I would say it was sarcasm rather than irony. You said you have studied from birth, were you reading at a day old? week old? month old? ;D No one reads and studies from birth and according to your profile you are only 21 years old. my being impressed was sarcasm, not irony.
that's good ,but I prefer take the meanings of the words and let the words of the verse until you learn Arabic.It'll be better for my opinion .
I am doing both. I have read Quran 'translation of the meaning of' a few times and now im looking at specific words in Arabic which is helping me to learn Arabic AND Quran ;DYes, I agree . But look at Mazhar, he translated the words without even differ between two words in Arabic have the same letters.
This is a bit like me, a native English speaker, learning Chinese and translating the Arabic Quran into Chinese when I would be better translating into English rather than Chinese.ok, so I just gave you the wrong word in english but my aim is to say Makrouh(unadvisable). But forbidden is not Haram in our language . forbidden is "" this word is not Haram and it means that it is restricted or banned. The word Haram is too powerful and there no doubt in it.
Ok but restricted or banned are similar meaning to forbidden, forbidden is stronger and is used in Quran where it says haram in Arabic so this is why I asked. According to dictionaries haram and mamnoor (ok i know thats not correct!) both mean forbidden (among other things), I suppose one would have to be native to understand which is used and where.
I posted the name of the surah with the number of the verse, the name of surah is an Arabic .
but don't worry here it is 115(Al-Anam=6). "the Word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can change His Words. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower."Already done it thank you. I did manage to read the sura name in Arabic sun im getting better yay
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I would say it was sarcasm rather than irony. You said you have studied from birth, were you reading at a day old? week old? month old? ;D No one reads and studies from birth and according to your profile you are only 21 years old. my being impressed was sarcasm, not irony.
ah lol, I emphisis the situation >>> it's like a metaphore the fact that Arabic is in my vains ) .
I am doing both. I have read Quran 'translation of the meaning of' a few times and now im looking at specific words in Arabic which is helping me to learn Arabic AND Quran ;D
Good, so try at the same time see what's written in hadiths(the Arabic version), I think you'll not find anything disagree with Quran and God knows, and your concept of detailed and completed will be changed because in Arabic view is not what you think. There is a lot meaning of detailed in Arabic. And just one advice don't take lessons from websites wheher the lessons are Arabic or are about Quran , I suggest to buy books or go learn in a school.
This is a bit like me, a native English speaker, learning Chinese and translating the Arabic Quran into Chinese when I would be better translating into English rather than Chinese.
that was funny, I like it.
Ok but restricted or banned are similar meaning to forbidden, forbidden is stronger and is used in Quran where it says haram in Arabic so this is why I asked. According to dictionaries haram and mamnoor (ok i know thats not correct!) both mean forbidden (among other things), I suppose one would have to be native to understand which is used and where.
look when an Arabic man hears Haram, his all attentions get straight to you, like someone says to him watch out the car will crash you . But when he hears forbidden, the case will be more lower and he can just use his ears alone .
Already done it thank you. I did manage to read the sura name in Arabic sun im getting better yay
You're welcome handshake
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Good, so try at the same time see what's written in hadiths(the Arabic version), I think you'll not find anything disagree with Quran and God knows, and your concept of detailed and completed will be changed because in Arabic view is not what you think. There is a lot meaning of detailed in Arabic.
I have Bukhari set of books in English and Arabic collecting dust on a bookshelf.
I will look at those Quran verses again but I am surprised as an Arab Muslim you are saying Quran is not complete and detailed as IMHO it cannot be from Allah, the Creator, if it is NOT complete and detailed.
And just one advice don't take lessons from websites wheher the lessons are Arabic or are about Quran , I suggest to buy books or go learn in a school.
I learn from many many sources not just one. I read many websites and have many many books and have also studied Islam in UK, I was NOT impressed by the course OR the tutors OR the books of the course. I know what is taught as Islam by the vast majority who claim to be teaching Islam and I dont accept it. That is why I am here.I am very VERY careful as I have already had one belief twisted out of recognition from how it was supposed to be and I will NOT have Islam pushed to me as something I do not believe it is, as how it is taught throughout the world. This is why I am here.
look when an Arabic man hears Haram, his all attentions get straight to you, like someone says to him watch out the car will crash you . But when he hears forbidden, the case will be more lower and he can just use his ears alone .
ok I understand but this word in English is 'forbidden' as in 'absolutely not allowed'. Forbidden = Haram.
I think the meaning for YOU as an Arab is that the word Haram is an instant recognition that it is from God and that is how the word is used, hence you get all his attention, although many do still use it in a lesser important way which IS making haram that which God did not. (hope that makes sense)Forbidden in English is also an absolute 'no no' and is also used to say what God 'forbids' but is also used as something that has nothing to do with God. Possibly because we have had no 'message' in English where a word would be stuck to meaning something related to God, like Haram is.
does that make sense? hmm
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I have Bukhari set of books in English and Arabic collecting dust on a bookshelf.
So, if you find any hadith that claimed that he is against Quran put it in a topic and I'll answer you if God willing.
I will look at those Quran verses again but I am surprised as an Arab Muslim you are saying Quran is not complete and detailed as IMHO it cannot be from Allah, the Creator, if it is NOT complete and detailed.
No, don't be surprised we believe that The Quran is fully completed and divine source and detailed in everything, you don't know how God stated everything in a small sentence. However what is completed and detailed must be understood and interpreted and made other detaield issues go with what is already detailed . I really can't find the word in english and if I did gave you the words in Arabic, the translation will just be just for the words not for the meaning. I always say to people that Arabic is a language of meanings.
I learn from many many sources not just one. I read many websites and have many many books and have also studied Islam in UK, I was NOT impressed by the course OR the tutors OR the books of the course. I know what is taught as Islam by the vast majority who claim to be teaching Islam and I dont accept it. That is why I am here.
ok, so Good luck and hope the best wishes for you in finding your real path.
I am very VERY careful as I have already had one belief twisted out of recognition from how it was supposed to be and I will NOT have Islam pushed to me as something I do not believe it is, as how it is taught throughout the world. This is why I am here.
ok I understand but this word in English is 'forbidden' as in 'absolutely not allowed'. Forbidden = Haram.
I think the meaning for YOU as an Arab is that the word Haram is an instant recognition that it is from God and that is how the word is used, hence you get all his attention, although many do still use it in a lesser important way which IS making haram that which God did not. (hope that makes sense)Yes, it makes sense, fully sense .
Forbidden in English is also an absolute 'no no' and is also used to say what God 'forbids' but is also used as something that has nothing to do with God. Possibly because we have had no 'message' in English where a word would be stuck to meaning something related to God, like Haram is.
does that make sense? hmm
Yes it does bravo
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So, if you find any hadith that claimed that he is against Quran put it in a topic and I'll answer you if God willing.
beware! I might just do that >No, don't be surprised we believe that The Quran is fully completed and divine source and detailed in everything, you don't know how God stated everything in a small sentence. However what is completed and detailed must be understood and interpreted and made other detaield issues go with what is already detailed . I really can't find the word in english and if I did gave you the words in Arabic, the translation will just be just for the words not for the meaning. I always say to people that Arabic is a language of meanings.
All languages are languages of meanings. you put words together to get sentences that 'mean' something. I am fully aware how God managed to say an incredible amount in a small sentence too.
The problem here is your use of English words, although you do have a very good command of English you do not have a good command of its 'usage' and thats where we go wrong in how you explain and how I understand. 'Complete' and 'fully detailed' cannot (in English) mean there is something missing, which you seem to be implying here. It cannot mean some parts are complete and detailed and other parts are not, and it cannot mean that the verses are complete and detailed but you need another book/scholar/teacher/hadith/Phd to make it REALLY complete and detailed and make sense of it. So I am hoping to look at those verses and find a word we can both agree means something particular. sun
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beware! I might just do that >D
All languages are languages of meanings. you put words together to get sentences that 'mean' something. I am fully aware how God managed to say an incredible amount in a small sentence too.
The problem here is your use of English words, although you do have a very good command of English you do not have a good command of its 'usage' and thats where we go wrong in how you explain and how I understand. 'Complete' and 'fully detailed' cannot (in English) mean there is something missing, which you seem to be implying here. It cannot mean some parts are complete and detailed and other parts are not, and it cannot mean that the verses are complete and detailed but you need another book/scholar/teacher/hadith/Phd to make it REALLY complete and detailed and make sense of it. So I am hoping to look at those verses and find a word we can both agree means something particular. sunAgreed, after all we're here for the same reason which is the truth.
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No, I didn't say he was lying but making a mistake can be too dangerous for someone following his translation, and translate the verses of Quran in a wrong way, is too dangerous for him and for the people that will read his translation.
By the way it's forbidden translate Quran word by word and verse by verse, the translator must just give you the meaning of the verse but not translate the verse.
By whom forbids the god's words to be read? You? I do not obey those who deny the god's words to be known and understood.
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well, I've studied Arabic from birth to now and about Quran I found no problem in understanding the verses and its meanings and the message that God wanted to deliver, let alone that I have the book of the best and the famous interpreters of Quran.
Mashallah on studying arabic by birth. But did you study the quran from birth?
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Is that your new way of verbal Irony ?
Because you should realize that, for all Muslims, the text you are reading is quite literally the voice of God; because the Qur'an is the direct speech of God in Arabic, translation of the work is seen as blasphemy, as an unforgivable tampering with God's own speech. In addition to this the translators will expand the word of God and make mistakes and the verse will take different meanings (look at the huge number of translator), let alone that some sentences with a difficult grammar and situation and the translator will be wrong in his translation because Grammar play a good rule in the meaning of the verse. That's why you should just translate the meaning of the verse not the verse word by word .If she was being ironic... then she would fail in being a muslim. A muslim cannot be a liar.
The meaning of the verse is in arabic. Why are you arguing on a word by word translation?
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so what did you think it ? be frank
Yes, that's why you should just take the meaning in your own language and by learning Arabic you'll take the verse word by word because at this time, you'll approach what you take as a meanings with what God said. Anyways the age of our existence I think make it necessary to translate it like this way and God knows.
I said it is forbidden from Islamic point of view because you changed the size of the verse and the change of the words also, I didn't say it is Haram. it can be "" and that's what I mean by forbidden. The "" is not the Haram.
about your question where, I think this verse will answer you) ُ (115)
Your implying that the verse has been disproven. The god makes it clear that no one can change the god's words, not that people are forbidden from translating and teaching. If the verse implied no translation allowed, then by your claim, you just gave ammo to the non-muslims who would say "oh look the quran is easily disproven".
If you don't want to teach other people quran in anything but in arabic, then you would be teaching people arabic. Not just you, but ever arab speaking person would be for free teaching arabic.
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If she was being ironic... then she would fail in being a muslim. A muslim cannot be a liar.
I've said Verbal Irony and it is not lying . it is a way of saying something but means something else.
The meaning of the verse is in arabic. Why are you arguing on a word by word translation?
I think she understood me, there is no need to re-write again what I meant. By the way you must read all our posts from the beginning between me and her and you'll understand if God willing.
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Your implying that the verse has been disproven. The god makes it clear that no one can change the god's words, not that people are forbidden from translating and teaching. If the verse implied no translation allowed, then by your claim, you just gave ammo to the non-muslims who would say "oh look the quran is easily disproven".
I agree in translating the meanings of the words but not the words in the verse . Have you ever heard that in the age of the prophet peace be upon him The Quran has been translated known that prophet has sent letters to Cesar for entering to Islam who is by definition was speaking Greek language? Have you ever heard in the age of companions of the prophet who they spread Islam everywhere said translate Quran to every nation that taked Islam ? Have you ever heard or read at the time of the Dawla al-Omaweya who they were fighting The Rome that one of them said translate Quran and sent it to those nations from Rome ? Have you ever heard or read at the time of the existence of A-Dawla Al-Abasseya which was plenty of translators that they have translated Quran and gave it to the nations that they have visited ? If I'm going to say "Have you ever ", I think I'll not finish .
If you don't want to teach other people quran in anything but in arabic, then you would be teaching people arabic. Not just you, but ever arab speaking person would be for free teaching arabic.
For my opinion, I prefer for the converted people or who they want to convert, learn Arabic first .
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Yeah... with you and her...
I think you didn't find something to make a post instead of that you said " let's find some mistakes". That really gives me an Idea about you . by the way it was a zeal of typing and I did correct it, see above .
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I agree in translating the meanings of the words but not the words in the verse . Have you ever heard that in the age of the prophet peace be upon him The Quran has been translated known that prophet has sent letters to Cesar for entering to Islam who is by definition was speaking Greek language? Have you ever heard in the age of companions of the prophet who they spread Islam everywhere said translate Quran to every nation that taked Islam ? Have you ever heard or read at the time of the Dawla al-Omaweya who they were fighting The Rome that one of them said translate Quran and sent it to those nations from Rome ? Have you ever heard or read at the time of the existence of A-Dawla Al-Abasseya which was plenty of translators that they have translated Quran and gave it to the nations that they have visited ? If I'm going to say "Have you ever ", I think I'll not finish .
For my opinion, I prefer for the converted people or who they want to convert, learn Arabic first.
Well you didn't do your job... so the god replaced you. Quran 4738. Your job was to teach arabic... but even today you decide not to? Those early muslims taught arabic. Surely you are teaching others classical arabic?
I think you didn't find something to make a post instead of that you said " let's find some mistakes". That really gives me an Idea about you . by the way it was a zeal of typing and I did correct it, see above .
Yes I know ... between you and her...
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Well you didn't do your job... so the god replaced you. Quran 4738. Your job was to teach arabic... but even today you decide not to? Those early muslims taught arabic. Surely you are teaching others classical arabic?
I would really be happy if someone wants for me to teach him Arabic, but as I see no one here wants, in the other hand they want to show that Arabs do not know Arabic (see the posts of Mazhar and some members claiming that they do know arabic but ...).
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I would really be happy if someone wants for me to teach him Arabic, but as I see no one here wants, in the other hand they want to show that Arabs do not know Arabic (see the posts of Mazhar and some members claiming that they do know arabic but ...).
Put a advert in your local newspaper - "Free arabic classes, 1-1, one on 10... will marry to teach".
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I would really be happy if someone wants for me to teach him Arabic, but as I see no one here wants, in the other hand they want to show that Arabs do not know Arabic (see the posts of Mazhar and some members claiming that they do know arabic but ...).
Dear you keep twisting things and you attribute words which I never said. I did not say that Arabs do not know Arabic, I pointedly said that you are not an Arab. I revere Arabic, and you know the reason.
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I would really be happy if someone wants for me to teach him Arabic, but as I see no one here wants, in the other hand they want to show that Arabs do not know Arabic (see the posts of Mazhar and some members claiming that they do know arabic but ...).
I want to know ten rare nouns with only two consonants which are added with an imported hamza wasl like http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00001.%20Ism%20Name/16.gif Thanks in advance.