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  4. Quranists became Quranists because of their lack of understanding Quran.

Quranists became Quranists because of their lack of understanding Quran.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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    AlFajr
    wrote on last edited by
    #136

    I see your misunderstanding and what you don't know that the verse is basically didn't talk about what came in the hadith, in fact Hadith confirmed what came in this verse in a way that I'm going to explain it now

    First of all the verse is talking about the believers of who , of the prophet . God telling them to do not hurt their prophet as Bani Isreal did before . So the verse it is not about Moses . It is about the prophet Muhamed peace be upon him.

    Second of all the hadith confirmed that what God said about hurting Moses from Bani Israel is right, how they will know these infomation if it wasn't the prophet who told them in some of Ahadith how Bani Isreal hurted the prophet Moses peace be upon him?

    So God here in the verse is ordering the believers to not do like bani Isreal and what they have done to the prophet of moses. How do you know what they did to Moses ? look at hadith they were insulting him that he is with a scrotal hernia, so to show them that their hypocrites and scandal their way of treating his prophet, they must see their fallacies about their prophet .

    The hadith is not about insulting the prophet Moses, but to show how Isreal were treating their prophet.

    Bukhari Hadith 4616

    Narrated Abu Huraira

    Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Moses was a shy person and used to cover his body completely because of his extensive shyness. One of the children of Israel hurt him by saying, 'He covers his body in this way only because of some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect.' Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took off his clothes and put them on a stone and started taking a bath. When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled; Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying, 'O stone! Give me my garment!' Till he reached a group of Bani Israel who saw him naked then, and found him the best of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of. The stone stopped there and Moses took and put his garment on and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four or five marks. This was what Allah refers to in His Saying-- "O you who believe! Be you not like those Who annoyed Moses, But Allah proved his innocence of that which they alleged, And he was honorable In Allah's Sight." (33.69)

    Do you believe the bit I highlighted is true? Are you claiming that this incident is what Allah was referring to?

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      Leyna
      wrote on last edited by
      #137

      Muhsin khan is the best translation from all the translation that I have seen .

      The Quran I hate

      The Quran is my favorite novel, favorite poem, favorite recording, favorite creation. But there are those who turn "my preciousss" into pungence; my warmth into fire; my beloved into a blizzard of death.

      I am obsessed with the Quran. I love the Quran like little boys love Harry Potter. Like white folk loved Outkast's Speakerboxxx and thugs loved Outkast's ATLeans. Like geeks love MySQL. Like girls love Gucci. I love it like Dantes loved Mercedes. I love it like Rumi loved Shams; Hallaj, God; and Nietzsche, himself. I love the Quran like Bela Bartok loved laughter and Romanians love them gypsies. I love the Quran like I loved Sophie Marceau when I was a lonely teen. I love the Quran more; much more.

      The Quran is my favorite novel, favorite poem, favorite recording, favorite creation. Its Prophets are more real to me than a thousand Aragorns and Legolases. Its Karuns and Zulqurnains are more devastating than a thousand Saurons. At the end of the day, when my toes won't bend from having walked in the cold so long, and my eyes won't close from having stayed open at work so long, I go to the Quran and Tawfeeq al Sayegh busts out in a recitation of al-Fajr, and my achilles heel melts in warmth, and my spinal cortex straightens and sets. I am overawed by the humanity of the book and I feel transcendence. Like any slave to beauty, I want nothing more than to scatter the perfume of the Quran in a thousand directions and share with others the luxuriant fragrance.

      But there are those who turn "my preciousss" into pungence; my warmth into fire; my beloved into a blizzard of death; my love into a lizard. Their names come easy to the mouth, like phlegm should Osama, Zarqawi, Bakri. They echo against the names of others who knew how to bastardize beauty Stalin, Bakunin, Cheney.

      However, these men are merely expressions of a deeper malaise. They have theological enablers who leaked the wines of worship from the Quran and injected instead the blood of desert scorpions. I speak of those men who change the verses of the Quran to serve their own disreputable ends; who by way of parantheticals not actually in the Arabic create a class of hate that breeds only blood and bombs.

      The Fatiha, The Opening, Magisterial and Evocative, which begins with "Praise For The Lord Of The Worlds" ends up in a taxonomy of exclusion by way of parentheses

      Guide us to the Straight Way. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

      No longer in this newly rewritten Quran is a believer left to reflect upon his being in relation to the unknown, his entry into the mysteries of existence, but to hate the Jew, hate the Christian. How could the Lord of all the Worlds accept such rancor toward His creation? Don't ask God; ask the government of Saudi Arabia which peddles this "noble" anti-Quran; ask the "Islamic" University of Medina; ask Shaykh Bin Baz, Saudi Grand Mufti until 1999 who certified these insertions; and the King Fahd Center For Printing of the Holy Quran.

      This is what Michael Sells calls War as Worship; Worship as War. This is the Quran I hate; this caricature of beauty. This is the Quran I will jihad against. (You must wait for my plot, but I shall plot).

      Ali Eteraz, December 15, 2006

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        Mazhar
        wrote on last edited by
        #138

        The Fatiha, The Opening, Magisterial and Evocative, which begins with "Praise For The Lord Of The Worlds" ends up in a taxonomy of exclusion by way of parentheses

        Guide us to the Straight Way. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

        No longer in this newly rewritten Quran is a believer left to reflect upon his being in relation to the unknown, his entry into the mysteries of existence, but to hate the Jew, hate the Christian. How could the Lord of all the Worlds accept such rancor toward His creation? Don't ask God; ask the government of Saudi Arabia which peddles this "noble" anti-Quran; ask the "Islamic" University of Medina; ask Shaykh Bin Baz, Saudi Grand Mufti until 1999 who certified these insertions; and the King Fahd Center For Printing of the Holy Quran.

        He seems to have stored in his person the poison of Cobra, he is spraying it in a beautiful manner.

        http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/1.07a.gif
        the path journeyed by those upon whom You showered blessings
        http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/1.07b.gif
        who are other than of those who made themselves liable to criminal cognizance/arrest and nor are they the ones who are the neglectful wanderers.

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          Thereformer1
          wrote on last edited by
          #139

          The original text of the verse is there and then is the translation. Point out distortion or mistake therein if you are truthful in what you keep uttering from mouth.

          I already did, go and look for my posts where Aiysha also shared the same opinion about your translation.

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            Thereformer1
            wrote on last edited by
            #140

            Bukhari Hadith 4616
            Do you believe the bit I highlighted is true? Are you claiming that this incident is what Allah was referring to?

            I've explained to you the hadith, so if you want to believe it, fine. If you don't want to believe it, fine too . This is your problem not mines, I've explained now it's your time to understand.

            By the way you didn't highlighted anything, I know the story .

            for your last answer , I don't claim anything , there in what God said are more than this incident . the strain of Isreal were treating their prophet in a bad way , so there will be more than this incident .

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              Thereformer1
              wrote on last edited by
              #141

              The Quran I hate

              Can you for a single post write your own opinion ?

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                Thereformer1
                wrote on last edited by
                #142

                Please bear with me.
                So you are saying this is just a greeting and not a ruling?

                Yes, it is greeting as he ordered in Quran to greet the believers . Do you any problem with that ?

                And it relates to the verses I posted because, assuming the Prophet is saying belief is enough to get into Janna, that would contradict the Quran which says you must believe and do good deeds.

                No, believe is not enough to get into Jannah , did I say that ?

                That will not contradict with any verse . If you're cever enough you'll know that the one who believe in there is no god but God from his heart pure and knowing his meanings, he will understand that he must do good deeds too.

                read my post .

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                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #143

                  Reformer, dear here two types of people are contrasted, you did not comment, though you keep naming me here and there.

                  Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 064247 PM
                  The original text of the verse is there and then is the translation. Point out distortion or mistake therein if you are truthful in what you keep uttering from mouth.

                  I already did, go and look for my posts where Aiysha also shared the same opinion about your translation.

                  Since you have failed to point out any distortion, it stands confirmed that you are not truthful as you finally proved in the case of Bismillah verse that you just keep uttering from mouth without even thinking for a while.

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                    Thereformer1
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #144

                    Since you have failed to point out any distortion, it stands confirmed that you are not truthful as you finally proved in the case of Bismillah verse that you just keep uttering from mouth without even thinking for a while.

                    I already did and I pointed out some mistakes in your translation where you added words to the verses, you want to deny this, fine .

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                      TheNabi
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #145

                      Peace

                      It only makes sense therefore that we join hands with the largest group.

                      This is an interesting interpolation of the verse. However, reading the rest of your post it becomes clear where your influence in such a vision lies that a sect means the smallest group branching off from the larger.

                      Keep to the Quran; what you find in it to be permissible treat as permissible, and what you find in it to be prohibited treat as prohibited" (Sunnan Abu Dawood Book 40 Hadith 4587)

                      I think the replete fellow has some good advice.

                      Joe

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                        TheNabi
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #146

                        Peace

                        According to the history narrated by Allah, the majority group was always wrong and pounished, same will be repeated.

                        I disagree with this assertion. Jonah's community prospered and had belief .

                        Joe

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                          TheNabi
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #147

                          Peace

                          Try this saying of Omar Ibno Al-Khatab

                          According to the quran those with knowledge know that what the Lord has sent guides to the path of the noble .

                          Joe

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                            TheNabi
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #148

                            Peace

                            Sunnah are the sect that the prophet left

                            Eleven times has the derivative of sin nun been used in the quran. I doubt you will find any referring to your sect or to Muhammad's method. In fact they have been used in reference to how God deals with the people and in admonishment of the institutions of others.

                            Here are the derivatives for you to look up yourself 3/137; 4/26; 8/38; 15/13; 17/77; 18/55; 33/38, 62; 35/43; 40/85; 48/23

                            Joe

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                              TheNabi
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #149

                              Peace

                              the reason of telling them this hadith is that firstly he wanted to tell them that people should take the shower covering his organs and to differ from the habit of the ennemies of Islam who they take shower naked (Bani Isreal) .

                              I'm just wondering, sort of related to the idea of "naked" are we wrong for being born since we are born naked?

                              In response to your elucidation of this hadeeth I would like to have clean genitals so I will and I do shower naked, completely naked. My question is why is showering naked according to this hadeeth wrong, because their enemies do it? If it's because they do not want to be like their enemies what if their enemies ate with their right hands or engaged in educating their people?

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                                xthug
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #150

                                I already did and I pointed out some mistakes in your translation where you added words to the verses, you want to deny this, fine .

                                Brother ask God Alone to forgive you before a painful retribution!

                                464 We do not send a messenger except to be obeyed with the permission of God. And had they come to you when they had wronged themselves and sought the forgiveness of God, and the messenger sought forgiveness for them, they would have then found God to be Pardoning, Merciful.

                                465 No, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their souls any animosity for what you have decided, and they will comply completely.

                                Tell me did God authenticate any hadiths? Sunni's and Shiia's are weak in faith they ask to be dominated by fascist leaders because they can't think for themselves.

                                2104 O you who believe, do not say Shepherd us, but say Be patient with us, and listen. For the rejecters is a painful retribution.

                                Peace and patience to all!

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                                  Thereformer1
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #151

                                  Peace
                                  This is an interesting interpolation of the verse. However, reading the rest of your post it becomes clear where your influence in such a vision lies that a sect means the smallest group branching off from the larger.

                                  Are you having another interpretation of the sect that splitted up ? if Yes How ?

                                  you'll find this more than interesting

                                  1. And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad &#1605 after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers? way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination!

                                  Are you sure that the believers are (quranists) ?

                                  I think the replete fellow has some good advice.
                                  Joe

                                  Yes, when you understand it .

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                                    Ayisha
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #152

                                    About the hadith of Abu Horaira , the reason of telling them this hadith is that firstly he wanted to tell them that people should take the shower covering his organs and to differ from the habit of the ennemies of Islam who they take shower naked (Bani Isreal) .
                                    the second reason is to show them how Bani Isreal were hypocrites and harming their prophet and stabed him in the back, having a gossip about their prophet and it was a bad gossip .

                                    so attaching the verse to this hadith is so irrelevent and shows that you don't understand the verse neither the hadith .

                                    Didnt you say that abu huraira was from bani Israel when you were denying he was a jew? Clearly here you are saying they were enemies of islam so how did his stories get into claimed sayings of the prophet Muhammed and get passed off a facts?

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                                      Thereformer1
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #153

                                      Didnt you say that abu huraira was from bani Israel when you were denying he was a jew?

                                      What ? I've never said that Abu Huraira was from bani Isreal neither he was jew. am I like you to accuse people ?

                                      read please about this man http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hurairah

                                      Clearly here you are saying they were enemies of islam so how did his stories get into claimed sayings of the prophet Muhammed and get passed off a facts?

                                      1. And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad &#1605 after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers? way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination!

                                      =/= is that what I said ?

                                      Clearly here you are saying they were enemies of islam so how did his stories get into claimed sayings of the prophet Muhammed and get passed off a facts?

                                      Horaira was not jew and his stories are not stories , they are ahadith from the prophet directly.

                                      Are you high ?

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                                        Thereformer1
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #154

                                        Peace

                                        According to the quran those with knowledge know that what the Lord has sent guides to the path of the noble .

                                        Joe

                                        Yes, thanks (those who have knowledge) , are you one of them ?

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                                          Thereformer1
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #155

                                          Peace

                                          Eleven times has the derivative of sin nun been used in the quran. I doubt you will find any referring to your sect or to Muhammad's method. In fact they have been used in reference to how God deals with the people and in admonishment of the institutions of others.

                                          Here are the derivatives for you to look up yourself 3/137; 4/26; 8/38; 15/13; 17/77; 18/55; 33/38, 62; 35/43; 40/85; 48/23

                                          Joe

                                          No, thanks, I'm not english .So I know what does the word mean in every verse .

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